Premades jump queues??

[VPane]

Alright this is first time I notice this, today was a very slow day on our server, and as such the pvp queues were even slower. With such a low population today I was able to just do a /who civil, /who pit etc to see where the pvp was happening. While sitting in queue I found only one group of 8 in a Civil War. I kept refreshing the /who to see when they would be out and be that much closer to my turn. To my surprise 4 of the players from that Civil War zoned onto the fleet, I saw them, and then got right back into another warzone. This unfortunately happened twice while I was still sitting in the queue.

 

I'm not sure if this has always been the way but to me it seems very unfair that if you're in a premade you get jumped to the front of the queues while any one who has queued solo has to compete with the 4 remaining spots and hope for the best. With such low populations on some servers this becomes even more frustrating as in today's example where i sat in queue for a good 30 minutes watching the same players zone in and out of warzones.

 

Obviously joining a group would fix this issue but again with the low population servers your lucky to find enough to make groups. So hopefully this issue is looked at or at the very least get cross server warzone queues up and running so that people who are queued solo won't notice this issue as much

 

Thanks

[otherworlder]

Alright this is first time I notice this, today was a very slow day on our server, and as such the pvp queues were even slower. With such a low population today I was able to just do a /who civil, /who pit etc to see where the pvp was happening. While sitting in queue I found only one group of 8 in a Civil War. I kept refreshing the /who to see when they would be out and be that much closer to my turn. To my surprise 4 of the players from that Civil War zoned onto the fleet, I saw them, and then got right back into another warzone. This unfortunately happened twice while I was still sitting in the queue.

 

I'm not sure if this has always been the way but to me it seems very unfair that if you're in a premade you get jumped to the front of the queues while any one who has queued solo has to compete with the 4 remaining spots and hope for the best. With such low populations on some servers this becomes even more frustrating as in today's example where i sat in queue for a good 30 minutes watching the same players zone in and out of warzones.

 

Obviously joining a group would fix this issue but again with the low population servers your lucky to find enough to make groups. So hopefully this issue is looked at or at the very least get cross server warzone queues up and running so that people who are queued solo won't notice this issue as much

 

Thanks

 

I've had this occur as well (especially during times when the number of people queueing is less than robust). My record is being forced to sit the bench through three matches while the same premade got pulled into all three ahead of me, consecutively.

 

Seems like it gives premades preference then fills the remaining slots with solo, rather than first come first serve. I have no clue why, but it's yet another head scratcher from BW's PVP devs.

[Aehgo]

Yeah it sucks,your waiting for a pop,you see a warzone end as eight people appear on fleet and dissappear back into a warzone in a matter of seconds,wereas you have been waiting 30 minutes..

[RobNightfall]

Guys this is an MMO, groups are always going to take precedence. The idea behind this genre of game is to join a group. Yes, I'm aware that's not always an option, but to expect an MMO to work any other way is foolish.

[otherworlder]

Guys this is an MMO, groups are always going to take precedence. The idea behind this genre of game is to join a group. Yes, I'm aware that's not always an option, but to expect an MMO to work any other way is foolish.

 

That's what we're trying to do---join a WZ group. Once we're in there, we're all grouped. There's no reason to give preference to the guys who grouped beforehand over the guys who are hoping to group via the queue.

 

Premades already get a huge advantage in every other aspect of PvP. Do they need more matches on top of that?

[roguebill]

Guys this is an MMO, groups are always going to take precedence. The idea behind this genre of game is to join a group. Yes, I'm aware that's not always an option, but to expect an MMO to work any other way is foolish.

 

To think this is ok is elitist. Does four people who queue separately and get grouped together not equal multi-player?

[RobNightfall]

To think this is ok is elitist. Does four people who queue separately and get grouped together not equal multi-player?

 

To put it bluntly, no, you don't. The idea is to form a group on your own, i.e. be social in a social game. This isn't elitist, this is what MMOs are designed for. I get that it's not always a possibility, when I log in I frequently pug because my friends are on the east coast and I live in Arizona with a large time difference between us. However, I don't cry that on a social game precedence is given to sociable people. This is how the game is supposed to work, end of story.

[Antipodes]

Yes, this is frustrating and I'm sure it happens because the server pop is so low. There might be like 3 other people queuing so the two groups of 4 just keep getting in over and over. Even if the solo queuers get paired with one of the 4 man groups, they'll leave the game and re-queue so we'll be stuck undermanned (there won't be anyone else filling the spots again because of the low pop).

[otherworlder]

To put it bluntly, no, you don't. The idea is to form a group on your own, i.e. be social in a social game. This isn't elitist, this is what MMOs are designed for. I get that it's not always a possibility, when I log in I frequently pug because my friends are on the east coast and I live in Arizona with a large time difference between us. However, I don't cry that on a social game precedence is given to sociable people. This is how the game is supposed to work, end of story.

 

What if my strategy for grouping is using the damn grouping tool (ie queue)?? You're splitting hairs, big time. There is no difference, whatsoever. A lot of us don't have dedicated pvp pals or RL friends on at all hours. To group, we must queue. Our technique for grouping is no less valid than yours.

Edited May 11, 2012 by otherworlder

[Astarica]

I'm curious how anyone can even have any idea if someone's jumping the queue unless you're constantly stalking premades to see which zone they're in.

 

I've ran premades before and it sure doesn't feel like I'm getting some kind of special treatment on which games to get. In fact, since premades don't get spots for people who quit halfway, I usually have to wait longer, thoguh admittedly getting a ragequit spot isn't exactly something to look forward to.

[exphryl]

We see this a lot, at lest in the morning. We'll have a Premade of 4 going and some stragglers from the guild solo queue.

 

I think the game tries to find the quickest way to fill the Warzone. In some cases, the only way to meet the minimum requirement is with a 4 Man Group over the solo queue (which would make the wait longer as there isn't enough people queueing to take up the extra spots)

[GeckoOBac]

It's not a problem of social or not social. It's a simple design problem: if you give priority to singles, groups NEVER get drafted into a wz, since either you fit the whole group or you don't. If you fit groups first and then singles, you can fill the wzs neatly.

 

That's all. If the situation is really unberable just group with random people that share your problem, and you're done. No need to know anybody, if the problem is spread then you will find people willing to join you just to avoid waiting for hours.

[Thundartwothree]

To put it bluntly, no, you don't. The idea is to form a group on your own, i.e. be social in a social game. This isn't elitist, this is what MMOs are designed for. I get that it's not always a possibility, when I log in I frequently pug because my friends are on the east coast and I live in Arizona with a large time difference between us. However, I don't cry that on a social game precedence is given to sociable people. This is how the game is supposed to work, end of story.

 

No its not, it has not worked that way in almost any MMO ever. If TOR has put that in place, its probably one of if not the worst mistakes they could have made, when your hemoraging subs at the rate this game is (And make no mistake, losing 25% of your players 4 months after launch is bad, not just bad, but really really bad hell they even gave most players a free month) you do everything you can to keep people happy until you can really fix the game.

[otherworlder]

I'm curious how anyone can even have any idea if someone's jumping the queue unless you're constantly stalking premades to see which zone they're in.

 

I've ran premades before and it sure doesn't feel like I'm getting some kind of special treatment on which games to get. In fact, since premades don't get spots for people who quit halfway, I usually have to wait longer, thoguh admittedly getting a ragequit spot isn't exactly something to look forward to.

 

The PvP community on most servers is dismally small. If you have a few of the regular premade players on your friends list, it's not hard to see where they are with a quick check (especially given that my friendslist remains dead at all hours lately except for the few remaining diehard pvpers). If the same three or four guys are in Voidstar when you aren't, then zone back onto the fleet at the pvp terminal in front of you, then vanish promptly and you see they're now in Civil War while you continue to wait, you got cut ahead of in line.

[angryca]

Guys this is an MMO, groups are always going to take precedence. The idea behind this genre of game is to join a group. Yes, I'm aware that's not always an option, but to expect an MMO to work any other way is foolish.

 

The only thing dumber than this statement is the possibility that the code actually works the way the OP described.

[xdvesper]

It sounds like it's their group-matching algorithm working as intended. The system prefers to match a full team of 4 versus another full team of 4. The situation might have been that there aren't enough solo players to create a full 8v8 match, however there was a full premade of 4 on both factions queueing against each other.

 

Say something like a 4 man empire premade + 12 empire solo queuers in queue, and you're 10th on the list of solo queuers. On the other faction, a 4 man republic premade + 6 republic solo queuers in queue. This is how the matching algorithm goes.

 

1. The system will not set a premade vs full solo queue - for example, 4 premade empire + 4 solo queue VS 8 solo queue empire. Or, 4 premade republic + 4 solo republic VS 8 solo empire. For obvious reason, it doesn't want premade vs full pugs.

 

2. There aren't enough solo queuers on either faction to set up an 8v8 solo queue game so that alternative is out.

 

3. The system then has to create a 4v4 premade team, and pick 4 solo queuers from either faction. You're 10th on the list, so the solo queuers 1-4 get in. After the match ends, all players immediately requeue, same thing happens - not enough solo queuers to create an 8v8, so a 4v4 premade match gets set up and solo queuers 5-8 get in.

 

This is where you are standing in fleet basically going ***.

 

Similar situations can occur (which I have seen) where full premades take an extremely long time to find a match: usually when there's a lot of solo queuers in the pool, but no other 4 man premade queueing at the time.

 

Anyway, it's a price well worth paying, most players prefer to have a longer queue if it means they get a fairer match.

[Satans_Puppet]

To put it bluntly, no, you don't. The idea is to form a group on your own, i.e. be social in a social game. This isn't elitist, this is what MMOs are designed for. I get that it's not always a possibility, when I log in I frequently pug because my friends are on the east coast and I live in Arizona with a large time difference between us. However, I don't cry that on a social game precedence is given to sociable people. This is how the game is supposed to work, end of story.

 

So you're queuing to buy tickets for your favourite group, your friends can't make it so you queue alone, you're teir first in the queue... excited but Four friends arrive together behind you and tell you you have to go to the back because these are tickets for a gig with a bar which means it's a social event, another group comes along and you find your dreams of going to this gig, flushing down the pan....

 

You're just silly...

[Elkirin]

It is very likely that the queue is selecting the group of 4 first then filling the other slots as it can to make a warzone happen.

 

It is extremely unlikely that it is doing this for the reason that was posted regarding this being a MMO.

 

Rift had huge issues seperating the cross server pvp into solos/premades/ ranks/ gear lvls etc into warfronts that actually spawned.

 

IMHO, we just want shorter queues.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Elkirin

[Astarica]

We see this a lot, at lest in the morning. We'll have a Premade of 4 going and some stragglers from the guild solo queue.

 

I think the game tries to find the quickest way to fill the Warzone. In some cases, the only way to meet the minimum requirement is with a 4 Man Group over the solo queue (which would make the wait longer as there isn't enough people queueing to take up the extra spots)

 

That only case where this is possible is if the minimum needed to pop queue is 6 and there are exactly 5 people in the solo queue. In that case one person would have to sit out out of the solo queue to accomodate for the group of 4, so it'd happen 20% of the time on a very rare occurence.

 

I'm assuming the min needed to pop a queue is not greater than 6, because I sure have seen games that started with no more than 6 people. If it's say, 5, you can have at most 4 guys in the solo queue before it pops so you can always combine those 4 with a premade of 4.

[roguebill]

To put it bluntly, no, you don't. The idea is to form a group on your own, i.e. be social in a social game. This isn't elitist, this is what MMOs are designed for. I get that it's not always a possibility, when I log in I frequently pug because my friends are on the east coast and I live in Arizona with a large time difference between us. However, I don't cry that on a social game precedence is given to sociable people. This is how the game is supposed to work, end of story.

 

Actually it is elitist.

elitist is defined as (of a person or class of persons) considered superior by others or by themselves, as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society.

 

Also, A multiplayer game is a game which is played by several players.[1] The players might be independent opponents, formed into teams or be just a single team pitted against the game.

 

This may be what you think MMO's are designed for but, not necessarily what they are actually designed for. I am pretty sure MMO's were designed to get large groups of people to play with each other or against each other in a persistent world. If I remember correctly the first MMO's didn't even have groups or parties as we know them now.

 

So, in summary please don't quote my post, say I am wrong just because your opinion doesn't match what I said. Since I pretty much just stated definitions of words.

[Kurvv]

It sucks that this happens, but under certain circumstances they either have to give the group precedence or start warzones with less than a full team.

 

Consider the situation where two 4 man groups and anywhere from 1-3 soloers are queueing.

Either A) both 4 man groups get pops and the wz starts with a full team, or B) 1 group and 1-3 soloers get pops and the wz starts with 5-7 people.

 

The solution to this would be to avoid the absurdly low populations that allow this to occur.

Here's to hoping BW can sort out the "technology" behind cross-server queues.

[mightycount]

Alright this is first time I notice this, today was a very slow day on our server, and as such the pvp queues were even slower. With such a low population today I was able to just do a /who civil, /who pit etc to see where the pvp was happening. While sitting in queue I found only one group of 8 in a Civil War. I kept refreshing the /who to see when they would be out and be that much closer to my turn. To my surprise 4 of the players from that Civil War zoned onto the fleet, I saw them, and then got right back into another warzone. This unfortunately happened twice while I was still sitting in the queue.

 

I'm not sure if this has always been the way but to me it seems very unfair that if you're in a premade you get jumped to the front of the queues while any one who has queued solo has to compete with the 4 remaining spots and hope for the best. With such low populations on some servers this becomes even more frustrating as in today's example where i sat in queue for a good 30 minutes watching the same players zone in and out of warzones.

 

Obviously joining a group would fix this issue but again with the low population servers your lucky to find enough to make groups. So hopefully this issue is looked at or at the very least get cross server warzone queues up and running so that people who are queued solo won't notice this issue as much

 

Thanks

 

If true, this is disgusting. Would also explain why the premades progression is so much faster, by the way. I'll spend time watching this tonight and make sure to file a ticket if I find this to be correct.

[GeckoOBac]

Similar situations can occur (which I have seen) where full premades take an extremely long time to find a match: usually when there's a lot of solo queuers in the pool, but no other 4 man premade queueing at the time.

 

Anyway, it's a price well worth paying, most players prefer to have a longer queue if it means they get a fairer match.

 

It's fun that your post and my post, both saying the same things (which is how the queues actually work) are the only 2 posts completely ignored

[xenotpt]

I don't understand why premades can't be assigned a number like everyone else, and then have their group inserted when it is their turn. Perhaps you push a couple of people back in order to get the premade in (or make them wait one turn, whatever), but still it would be fair. I don't see any literature listed anywhere saying that being social in the game is preferred and that those who are get preference. That would be alienating a lot of your player base.

[GeckoOBac]

I don't understand why premades can't be assigned a number like everyone else, and then have their group inserted when it is their turn. Perhaps you push a couple of people back in order to get the premade in (or make them wait one turn, whatever), but still it would be fair. I don't see any literature listed anywhere saying that being social in the game is preferred and that those who are get preference. That would be alienating a lot of your player base.

 

Let me try again... The reason is: the system tries to match premades vs premades, so as to get some balance in the zone. If soloers get pushed back, it's because there are premades on the opposite sides and not enough soloers to form a full wz.

 

Now, this works in the opposite as well: if you are in a premade but the opposite side doesn't, you will, most likely, get pushed back after soloers.

 

To all this, add the fact that the longer the queues are, the less strict the requirements to start a wz become, so in the end the premade will be chosen because it fills more spots easily and it can't be split otherwise. Soloers will be used to fill the remaining of the wz.