exphryl Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I gotta agree with this. I have never understood why they allowed Biochem usage in PvP anyways. Once people utilize on using cybertech grenades in PvP this is gonna cause similar problems. I keep the lowbie grenades handy since they aren't restricted to cybertech. The 4sec root one is amazing to help with point capping or general control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershadez Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I may summarize this thread: Non-Powertechs (Vanguards) say PT is OP. PT/Vanguards claim they aren't. I think we reached the same point as in any other similar thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 The issue I have with threads like this is that we are missing a bunch of important information. The actual gear load of the target and attacker would be helpful. Even assuming the target is full battlemaster, if the attacker is in full augmented warhero (as a number of the more avid PvP players on my server are), then we are seeing the effect of a major gear gap as well as the biochem effect and the power of the class. We also don't know how quickly Jager dies when taking reasonable damage. To say PT is OP when presenting this small a piece of the puzzle can be misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterbason Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) forum players make me sick... to get that burst we need to use the assalt /pyro tree, but in this tree we are like paper... die too fast and have no skill like marauder to disapear or becomes immortal for seconds... we have a shield that only absorv 25% dmg and once in a fight is die or live... the "ironfist"( using "tank spec") build in other hand is can be more helpful for the team but don't have great dmg, it's just good dmg and good defense. the assalt/pyro tree can be beat easy easy beat by a mara, sin or a smuggler in a 1v1 fight... average players of course, if you can't you are a nb... Edited May 11, 2012 by masterbason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryptikX Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I may summarize this thread: People who need to learn how to play say PT is OP. PVPers claim they aren't. I think we reached the same point as in any other similar thread. Fixed it for ya. If PT/Vanguard had the kind of defensive CDs of some other classes, *cough* Mara *cough*, then yeah, there would be a problem. OP is just learning the hard way to not face tank a melee (<10m) DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershadez Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Fixed it for ya. If PT/Vanguard had the kind of defensive CDs of some other classes, *cough* Mara *cough*, then yeah, there would be a problem. OP is just learning the hard way to not face tank a melee (<10m) DPS. And you are, let me guess ..... another PT? Point taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryptikX Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 And you are, let me guess ..... another PT? Point taken. Yes I have a PT, I also have a gunslinger, jugg, sage, assassin, and commando. L2Play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediSoloBen Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 This was hilarious, thanks! "Oh no, someone's playing better than me! Get nerfed down to my level" Marauder distraction has started.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneXXIV Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 PT's are very similar to Sents. PTs are more bursty, might be the second best kiters in the game, get to fight at range and have a peel. Sents have more defensive cool downs, a leap and have to fight in melee. The two classes are very even. It's really do you want to fight melee or mid range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggsbacon Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Why don't we just switch the conversation to marauder/sentinel? Here, I'll start: why does one of the pure DD mara/sent classes also feel like the best tank in PVP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershadez Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Yes I have a PT, I also have a gunslinger, jugg, sage, assassin, and commando. L2Play Just like I have a sage, vanguard, gunslinger and scoundrel on a dieing server and a gunslinger + scoundrel on a more populated one. Just wondering why this is making you any more special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoidpuz Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Once again - Leave PT alone- The burst alone is fine the cooldowns on burst is fine- Its the OP Biochem that makes it Over burst. without all the + power cooldowns etc we wouldnt have these threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnderatedNoob Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) Why don't we just switch the conversation to marauder/sentinel? Here, I'll start: why does one of the pure DD mara/sent classes also feel like the best tank in PVP? They can't guard or taunt... so who are they tanking? 1 Pull on a 45 Second cooldown limited by Resolve 1 Snare that is on 1 Target within 10M Taunts (Which any Tank AC has) Your definition of utility seems a bit....weak... They can jump. AoE stun. Guard. One of the best shield defensive CD's. Most of their big damage is instant cast. I'm sure I'm missing some other good ones. I don't know if they need to be nerfed, but the two best powertechs on my server kill me faster than any other class bests. And it's not even close. Edited May 11, 2012 by UnderatedNoob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiTaNsFaN Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 for the people who dont understand this is all with Power adrenal/relix mixed with a Crit cooldown- Lose the OP power Relic/adrenal multiplier- BIO op not the PT post his dps when hes not BUFFED TO ***** with cooldowns- see how abysmal it is and shup ROFLMAO this was the same argument people used when operatives were OP at launch. "It's not the class, it's the evil buff stacking!" Powertechs are horribly overpowered in this game, highest damage by far. Only difference is they don't have the invulnerability cooldown of the Marauder. If this games history is any indication, powertechs are def. gonna get hit by the nerf hammer sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoop Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Yeah they hit hard, but they have no defense so its balanced this sounds just like mauraders right now, ...............................except the part about the defenses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laiboch Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 In 1.2 it seems Bioware decided that hybread builds are not ok. So they "balanced" them for most classes... How ever Powertech was not one of the classes that had this happen so they are still capable of using a really powerful split spec. Honestly Bioware did more harm than good by getting rid of split specs.. Its really sad as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fdzzaigl Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) LoL What?? You realize they are tanks yea? Heavy armor with approx 45% kinetic and Energy Mitigation in full BM. Yes clearly this is not a passive defense Shield Generator off hand means they get even more mitigation on procs against many attacks. Again this does nothing to help survivability? Reactive shield Reduces all incoming damage by a further 25% for 12 seconds. Adrenal rush Heals the Vangaurd for 15% of their HP over 10 seconds (that works out to a 2.5k+ HoT for a geared Vangaurd) Then add in depending on why spec you are things like: Hold the line (CC immunity and movement speed) (Tactics tree) Rebraced armour (+16% armor) ( very low in the Sheild tree) Reflexive shield which reduces the cooldown of Reactive shield, so the more you get hit the quicker it will come back on line. (Assualt tree) Yes clearly the Vanguard is lacking in defense. More like 35% reduction (no Tank stance) You don't use shield generator, and shield is pointless anyhow. 12s reactive shield is on a 2 minute cooldown (and every other tank class has better and more cooldowns than that). Adrenaline rush heals for 800 initially, then 200 per tick every second, it is pathetically weak and will never save you. Hold the line is tactics, and no one is complaining about tactics. The tree is also still bugged. You don't know what you're talking about. To OP: 1) He is clearly very well geared. 2) Try LoSing +heal + wear him out. 3) Yes, they do have highest burst in game, and all burst is too strong atm. Edited May 11, 2012 by Fdzzaigl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husofanten Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Pyros/assault didnt change. We were already nerfed to be honest ( cd on hib reset) And all of sudden everyone is complaining about how op we are... Bio adrenal with relic gives every class huge dps boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balmuck Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Honestly, the reason you died wasn't because of the PT, it was cuz you're a Sage. I mean, have you looked at yourself lately? Do you see the ridiculously stupid hats you wear? Seriously, that WH head looks like some sort of fugly Power Rangers meets really bad Samurai Helmet... at best. Your body piece, that looks like their artists went down to their local hardware store when it started to rain, and they bought a tarp, cut a hole in it for the head piece and then taught that it would be a good idea to place it in the game.. Those things are at best and if you took the average look of a Sage, you'd probably come up with, a very ugly hobo clown that seems to have gotten him some sort of banna tree/drag queen dress in some trash bin that he regularly visits. So yea, no, it's not the PT burst damage that's killing you, it's you that's killing you. I hope they buff up some more DPS classes cuz really, god forbid, last thing our eyes need is more of you Sages running around looking like banana trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourne Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 The thing about 1.2 PT is that you are "locked" in a role/spec...gone are the days of the true hybrid. A Pyro is NOT running Ion...if he does then he is not getting Prototype Particle Accelerator (Rail Shot) procs. Without those Rail Shots then his damage takes a serious nosedive..and his HEAT spikes up to make him even more useless. Sure he can guard now while in Ion, but he lacks the actual defensive mechanisms of a Tank/heat reduction...as well as crippling his dps (spec'd full Shield Tech he would do far better). A Pyro drops with ease for any dps class- it took 9.6sec for the OP to die to a Pyro that can be killed in 6-13 seconds by a Mara/Sent/random dps AC. A Pyro does NOT have a ton of utility...the whole function of the build is to get the Combustible Gas Cylinder/Incendiary Missle Dot on you in order to fire the Rail Shot in the first place (you need to have a periodic effect/be incapacitated in order to be the target of Rail). The armor pen Rail is what gives the Pyro those huge hits...it is his life blood...without the Rail his great burst becomes meh. It is Advanced Prototype that has the utility and a good bit of survival specs...but has to sacrifice the burst that makes the AC feared in wz's. No matter how hard he tries- the AP will rarely be able to spec Prototype Particle Accelerator and never be able to spec Firebug...which is necessary for those big hits (and would most certainly mean he is Pyro). The AP can be viable to run in Ion...and can do AoE numbers with high shielding. However, check the damage numbers for him running Ion with AoE/Guard and you will see his max hit number at only 2.8k... A PT/Vanguard is not a Mara/Sent...you shoot them and they die- period. No CC is needed, no watching so n' so def cd timer...just pew pew and they drop like a cheerleader on prom night. If they are running Ion- sure they have standard tankiness...but they aren't killing anyone quickly...least of all a healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjohnsonfhk Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 healers just need to learn to cure our dots. we will overheat very quickly if were spamming flame blast. without the dot we lose 75% of our damage. youre welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBSIP Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I don't think the ability to burn me down in about 5 seconds is balanced, regardless of their own defenses or lack thereof. The fact of the matter is that powertechs do more burst damage than any other class in the game, and they also have some really nice utility to back it up (slows, pulls, etc.). was it five seconds or 8 seconds? that's 8 seconds with ALL cooldowns popped other than the one defensive one, which means a 2 minute downtime with severely reduced DPS. Sages are also useless against powertechs because your primary counter measure to DoT's, cleanse, is useless against tech abilities. If they added a talent to make cleanse able to remove tech applied DoT's i think you'd see a significantly more balanced view of powertechs. The same thing happens when you get force applied DoT based classes attacking an operative, their cleanse doesn't work on force applied abilities, they get to eat a dirt nap. TL;DR talents should be reworked to make cleanses remove all DoT effects for people in the healing tree, regardless of their type or how they were applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACMessiah Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 24k damage in 10 seconds. 2.4k dps is high, I'll give you that. But it's burst. Sustained dps on PT is much lower, about 1.5k/s on a static target. (at least mine is). You see these big voidstar games, but have to take into account how long the game lasted, and how much in combat time the player had. If you have that many healers you are constantly dpsing! If you never die and are constantly putting out dps, it isn't suprising that you can achieve a warzone dps of 700+, when on a static dummy it is 1.5k! But based on the numbers you got hit for, the PT player was very well geared(mostly war hero), and had every advantage in that fight. Popping relic and biochem cooldowns you are going to go down. I put it to any of you that ANY dps class in the game which is full War Hero and pops every cooldown/stim they have can take an undefended sage down in 10 seconds if unopposed. Powertechs have a very direct counter. Other dps. Put a flame icon on their head, and every player on your team knows to put them down first, before they put you down. One well played shadow/assasin can shut a PT down with their cloak ability that cleanses/prevents dots and tech damage. Stick a dps/hybrid assassin on a pyro and he will have the worst game of his life. The game is not balanced around 1v1 battles, you have to understand this. As a lone sage/sorc you are MEANT to loose every time in a dps showdown like that. You are meant to have support, other players who make sure that doesn't happen. This is not an FPS where you can run in solo and headshot everything yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaulSerpine Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 More like 35% reduction (no Tank stance) No... I have 31% reduction and i am wh/bm geared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBSIP Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 No... I have 31% reduction and i am wh/bm geared full rakata geared which has same armor rating as full BM, 31% base mitigation for energy and kinetic damage from armor. People don't understand armor in this game, its remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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