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Powertechs aren't OP


Saerith

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We actually had quite an active PVP community up until about a month ago. But of course you play on a PVP servers, and your opinions are validated only by the type of server you chose to roll on. What a strong argument you make!

 

Great, my tune hasnt changed either. Pyro PTs existed then and we needed a fast casting Deliverance to be able to save people against their burst. Now after championing George Zeller proposed nerfs in 1.2 against all us sages/sorcs who said otherwise you come here to complain about them.

 

I'm still comfortable with sage healing in 1.2. I thought powertechs were OP before the patch, but I don't think having another wildly OP class would somehow balance out PVP. This point might be a bit too nuanced for you, but sage healing was incredibly OP compared to most of the other classes, and that has nothing to do with this thread.

 

Oh and I see you that know feel Marauders need a nerf... great.

 

Errrm, I've always thought their buff was a bit too much in 1.2 PVP, on the PTS and live.

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I briefly considered joining in a campaign, much like the Marauders and Sentinels have, to try and refute and give perspective on the claims of OP'ness and cries for Nerfing. Briefly. Then I realized that this game is circling the drain in no small part due to the community and that their are other games with promise, especially in the realm of 'balanced' PvP, cresting the horizon as we speak. It can't all be blames on the community though, the developers are the final line between need and want. We don't feed our children cake and ice cream for meals because we know that's dumb, despite what they want.

 

I'll just enjoy this for what it's worth and then move on as has occured with so many flash in the pan, unfulfilled hopefuls that have preceded this in the past couple years. A sincere launch with sincere goals, followed quickly with an over the top, drastic, knee jerk reaction to God know's what that sends the game into free fall it just doesn't seem to recover from appears to be the hallmark of these sad titles.

 

In my opinion, this game's TTK has stood in direct contravention of the idea of several classes and in fact roles. Expertise has been knocked out of whack. There's probably a handful at least of other issues not even worth mentioning or picking this game apart to bring to light.

 

I play a VG. Personally I picked this class to be well... a tank. I tried earnestly to be a tank until the inevitable massive overhaul was implemented. Since then, tell me why would I spec and gear to tank in PvP? Nerf my damage for what? To watch this attack fly by my shield and make my absorption pointless? While that attack makes a joke of my armor and defense stats? Trade my RPG in for a BB gun so I can survive half a breath longer than another VG but typically not as long as any average Light or Medium Armored class?

 

We're all victims of this calamity of logic and design. We've all been pigeon holed into DPS to have the most noticeable impact and contribution. We're all tired of getting pulled inside out in seconds with our only option being to spec to pull the other guy inside out faster . Unfortunatly its always difficult to see the forest from the trees.

 

People complained that a healer was tough to kill not so long ago, especially with a tank gaurding them, taunting the DPS, CC'ing and generally making the task even more difficult. Can I make an off the wall, crazy observation here? Maybe it was supposed to be? Yes, that duo especially was a b***h to kill, they also weren't going to kill you either. They were going to occupy you until one side gained the backup to push the situation to one side or the other, as they should I felt. I tend to think those poeple traded in their ability to DPS for something. Destroy the value of the trade though and... we'll take our DPS back then, thanks.

 

Ah well, moving along...

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Here he is against a solid team.

 

Oh yeah, more burst damage than any other class AND far more overall damage than other classes like 95% of the time in warzones. In fact, I've only ever seen one other player out DPS him (a sage).

 

Anyone who claims that powertechs aren't OP is completely delusional.

 

Burst DPS class that does burst DPS and dies like a bish due to lack of defenses.

 

Sounds fine to me.

 

I couldn't help but notice that his highest hit was only 4.4k, and that barely anyone died in that match, AND that he was being healbotted most of the time (making it more than 1 player combined to achieve that total damage). Let's not take any of these things into account though. : )

Edited by Varicite
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Your obviously a moron that can not read

 

I wrote:

"Then add in depending on which spec you are things like:"

 

But even so Rebrace armour is low in the shield tree

 

A DPS Vangaurd can still use a 7/5/29 spec and benefit from Rebrace and Reflexive shield and thats only 1 spec.

Other specs can see a Vangaurd benefit from different combination of defensive abilities

 

So my point stands despite you best efforts to troll this thread

 

Vangaurds are tanks with many defensive abilities both active and passive. Obviously the extent of those abilities will change with the spec but it does not change the fact that a DPS Vangaurd has greater output then other DPS classes while maintaining far superior survivability.

 

Far superior surivivability? One defensive CD. And with the amount of damage floating around, do you really consider adrenal rush a significant incombat heal?

 

Vanguards are tanks as commandos are healers and Guardians and Assasins are tanks. They have the option to spec that way. And where are the many active abilities again? And the passive abilities you take in a normal Pyro (thats 31points) spec? Armor? There are several classes that wear heavy armor, which does not affect many attacks btw.

Shield chance? DPS optimising Pyros run generator. Or you could put the shield chance to the deflection chance of the glowstick classes that negates the complete damage of the Pyros mainhitter if you are unlucky. If you are really running a 7/5/29 spec for rebrace armor uhm... you are wasting a lot there.

 

You also ignore the fact that Pts are one of the few classes that has to actually manage their ressources- especially after the nerf in 1.2.- for the point of burst capability. Whereas certain other classes are like the duracell bunny.

 

I am aware. Some PT's may choose to change cylinder depending on if their healer is getting beat on/the tank went down (such as defending a door or other similar situation where it is more valuable to have ttl for the healer than it is to have increased damage. ALSO FREE MEDALS!!! :p ).

 

A pyro/assault running ion loses so much it simply isn'T viable after 1.2.

Edited by Twor
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The problem is really when you get 2 or 3 good Powertechs together in a team and focusing. People get their faces melted off in split seconds regardless of any amount of tanking or healing or teamplay. You literally do not stand any chance. From that perspective of team PvP (which PvP in TOR ultimately is), it makes any such team with multiple PTs completely unbalanced, and thus forces teams who want to be competitive to resort to the same build strategy.

 

Throw a couple of Marauders in for good measure (I don't consider them as OP as Powertechs though) and you have a team that can rip through everything in a heartbeat regardless of any team-build or strategy you try to employ against them.

 

So yes, the burst damage in the Pyro tree needs to be brought down a bit. Not much, but just a bit. Right now it's insanely high, nobody else comes close - not even Marauders.

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The problem is really when you get 2 or 3 good Powertechs together in a team and focusing. People get their faces melted off in split seconds regardless of any amount of tanking or healing or teamplay. You literally do not stand any chance. From that perspective of team PvP (which PvP in TOR ultimately is), it makes any such team with multiple PTs completely unbalanced, and thus forces teams who want to be competitive to resort to the same build strategy.

...

 

 

Put 3 of any burst kind together with focussing and you have the same massacre- with higher survivability in most cases.

Edited by Twor
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The problem is really when you get 2 or 3 good Powertechs together in a team and focusing. People get their faces melted off in split seconds regardless of any amount of tanking or healing or teamplay. You literally do not stand any chance. From that perspective of team PvP (which PvP in TOR ultimately is), it makes any such team with multiple PTs completely unbalanced, and thus forces teams who want to be competitive to resort to the same build strategy.

 

Throw a couple of Marauders in for good measure (I don't consider them as OP as Powertechs though) and you have a team that can rip through everything in a heartbeat regardless of any team-build or strategy you try to employ against them.

 

So yes, the burst damage in the Pyro tree needs to be brought down a bit. Not much, but just a bit. Right now it's insanely high, nobody else comes close - not even Marauders.

that happens any time you are focused, by any group of any ACs. focus kills faster, suprise!

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Powertech defenses are low if you're only comparing them with Marauders and tank spec'd classes. In the grand scheme of things, they still have above average survivability. Especially considering every time you jump one they'll react with their AOE stun and then proceed to take off large chunks of your health with the "pew" railshot sound.

 

Also, Powertechs have the option to play smart and stay at range whereas the other "tanky" classes can be forced into a bad position. For example, when I'm defending the Voidstar doors on my Sentinel, I have to put myself in LoS of all of the ranged sitting in the back. On my Vanguard, I just play next to the pillar if the situation isn't in my favor. The damage/burst they can do at range is a bit ridiculous. A Powertech took off half my BM geared Sage's health with 3 globals at 30 meter range with a dot still ticking on me.

 

As a Sentinel, I can't really say PTs are more overpowered than my class because I do have more survivability and good group buffs. But not everyone plays a Marauder/PT/Tanksin. I think the tank spec is about where PTs should be. A decent blend of damage, utility, and survivability.

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Here he is against a solid team.

 

Oh yeah, more burst damage than any other class AND far more overall damage than other classes like 95% of the time in warzones. In fact, I've only ever seen one other player out DPS him (a sage).

 

Anyone who claims that powertechs aren't OP is completely delusional.

 

Lol, what happened to the, "healing nerfs are fine?" Few decent DPS finally get full WH sets and are ripping you a new one? That 7 sec kill is not PT, it's every good DPS in the game that knows how to pop his consumables at the right time, to burst you to hell and back.

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Lol, what happened to the, "healing nerfs are fine?" Few decent DPS finally get full WH sets and are ripping you a new one? That 7 sec kill is not PT, it's every good DPS in the game that knows how to pop his consumables at the right time, to burst you to hell and back.

 

The healing nerfs are fine.

 

I'm not talking about any class but powertechs. No other class takes me down in less than 15 seconds. Powertechs can do it in 7. What's so difficult to understand about that? Why keep on bringing up the healing nerfs? They are fine. That's not the point. I'm talking about powertechs, and you guys keep on changing the subject.

 

I'm not talking about "DPS."

 

We're talking about powertechs and powertechs alone.

 

I give up. You guys win. You suck, but you win. I can't even tell if you're trolling or if you actually believe that verbal diarrhea you mistake for intelligent conversation.

 

And to anyone who thinks Guild Wars 2 is going to offer more balanced PVP, it's not. It's a ranged AoE spamfest, far worse than Ilum ever was.

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Been playing a PT since Feb with some Battlemaster stuff, it's been by far the hardest character to play. Lots of abilities than need to be timed right and with PT build I am always getting into Heat problems. I agree it's a good class but it requires a skilled player, it does not suffer fools.

 

I need to really concentrate to do 250k damage, kills are always high because of the bursts.

 

My Sorc is lvl 41 now and I can do 250k damage in my sleep with her. It's so so so much easier.

 

Another problem with Powertech and any melee class that no one ever seems to discuss is the problems you get into with a crappy computer. Yes, I am playing on a 286. Without high frame rate good luck getting up close and personal. I use Iron Fist templates most of the time just to jet jet charge so at least I know my first hit is going to land before they warp away. Powertechs look funny setting off flame throwers when no one is there.

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I fixed that for you.

 

From a guy who makes a YouTube living stroking his e-peen about how OP Powertech is ... :3

 

Your signature is an advertisement for why PT needs nerfing. Hypocrisy much?

Edited by Urien
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Lol, what happened to the, "healing nerfs are fine?" Few decent DPS finally get full WH sets and are ripping you a new one? That 7 sec kill is not PT, it's every good DPS in the game that knows how to pop his consumables at the right time, to burst you to hell and back.

 

... I'd just like to add here that it was only a matter of time until the min/max'ers caught up. I don't even think that time is fully here yet to be honest, just wait. If things continue this way unabated it won't be long until you really catch the wrong team and your team ends up behind that wall in the spawn point seconds after it dropped to start the match and doors are blowing off the hinges faster than the announcer can call em.

 

The point is being missed once again. In the vicious cycle of nerfs we can single out one class and maybe they get punched down, but as always a new king is crowned and round and round we go. Pre 1.2 had more hope than almost any PvP / class system coming out of the gate I felt. Then they went the wrongest possible way with it and any class can be smeared across the field in seconds. BEGIN THE NERF HERDING!!!

 

Maybe we should have seen the writing on the wall with how hard they swung the hammer on Smugs / Ops?

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Exphryl does bring up a good point with his 1.2 Pyro Burst Potential video he so graciously uploaded:

 

Also, one of his comments from the video:

 

No. There are some, but most have PvP gear. There is just not much classes can do with the burst a Pyro PT Puts out though unless you are a class that has all their defensively abilities available.

 

Nope, nothing to see here.

Edited by Saerith
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From a guy who makes a YouTube living stroking his e-peen about how OP Powertech is ... :3

 

Your signature is an advertisement for why PT needs nerfing. Hypocrisy much?

 

You seem to think I don't believe their damage needs toned down. I've said multiple times I feel they should (at the expensive of getting something defensively we can actually make use of, or remove ourselves from combat/get an opponent away from us)

 

I merely post in these threads trying to correct some of the idiocy I see when people try to argue against PTs though.

 

To further add to this post, I present to you a Rakghoul with shades. :rak_03:

Edited by exphryl
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Do tell.

 

Why don't you start with which classes can do more damage than PTs even when applying the right counters (i.e. LoS, interrupts, kiting, making the class spend time on defensive abilities rather than damage)? There wouldn't be much to write about whereas I'd have to go through every class.

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Been playing a PT since Feb with some Battlemaster stuff, it's been by far the hardest character to play. Lots of abilities than need to be timed right and with PT build I am always getting into Heat problems. I agree it's a good class but it requires a skilled player, it does not suffer fools.

 

Nonsense.

 

No class in this game requires a skilled player.

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As a dps Operative player (probably the last one on my server) it makes me a little sad when I read stuff like "they do great damage but they have no survivability so it's balanced".

Guess which class does a lot less damage and has less survivability?

 

But everyone seems to think that dps Operatives are balanced or even overpowered. :confused:

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Why don't you start with which classes can do more damage than PTs even when applying the right counters (i.e. LoS, interrupts, kiting, making the class spend time on defensive abilities rather than damage)? There wouldn't be much to write about whereas I'd have to go through every class.

 

More damage than a PT?

 

Burst or sustained?

 

Snipers and Agents can easily do the burst of a PT, y'know.

 

Sustained, Maras are still king of the hill.

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