[Discussion] DPS, What's better? Balance, TK, or Hybrid?

[Myxam]

Foreword

I know the title's misleading but, I wanted to get a lot of eyes on this. To begin with, my Sage is named Evelynne on Lord Adraas, 2 rakata crafted pieces, 4 columi, 2 bad implants for gear. Facing a dilemma that I seem to be the only (still active) Sage DPS on my server, I came back to 1.2 and had a question, "What's the best DPS spec 'now'?" Of course I'm speaking of the infamous 0/13/28 spec that landed us a nerf to begin with. Sadly as we couldn't parse it, it's easy to guess that it pulled roughly 1100-1200 DPS (as in my gear my TT was able to hit for that much and factoring in DoTs and subsequent hits from Telekinetic Wave and FiB, the DPS would be there roughly).

 

So perusing the forums like I used to I came across a link to a Log Analyzer for the combat log we recieved in 1.2, so I set out to study, what is our Best DPS.

 

Balance

3/7/31 was my build for this test. Due to the nature of the dummies on station I had to use a possibly faulty rotation to keep myself in combat long enough to drain my pool.

 

When I finished I uploaded to the Parse.

http://loganalyzer.blacksheeptroopers.com/stats/72621/showfgt

 

My stats came out at an underwhelming 964 dps with crushed, the DoT portion of Mind Crush dealing a whopping 43% of my damage.

 

So lets recap the info.

 

Fight Duration: 00h 02m 55s

DPS 964.01

Max damage From: Evelynne to: Combat Training Target MK-5 effect: Damage value: 2932 ability: Force in Balance

Total Damages Done 168,702.00

Total Threat Generated 168,712.00

Total Damages Absorbed 0.00

Total Interrupts 0.00

Total Dispells 0.00

Damages Done Critic Percentage (Value) 45.58%

Damages Done Critic Percentage (Per Capacity) 31.43%

 

Note, this fight lasts 2 minutes and 55 seconds, lets drop to the next fight.

 

Hybrid

For Hybrid I tried the 0/25/16 build I've seen whispered about in dark corners of the forums. Now I was suprised by this since it's bread and butter was Disturbence, an ability basically discounted as 'worthless' before my hiatus from the game. I was even more taken aback that the parse took minutes for me give up on trying to exhaust my pool, and even moreso when it dealt 982.85 DPS.

 

Fight Duration 00h 04m 48s

DPS 982.85

Max damage From: Evelynne to: Combat Training Target MK-5 effect: Damage value: 2752 ability: Force in Balance

Total Damages Done 283,061.00

Total Threat Generated 283,072.00

Total Damages Absorbed 0.00

Total Interrupts 0.00

Total Dispells 0.00

Damages Done Critic Percentage (Value) 45.50%

Damages Done Critic Percentage (Per Capacity) 29.74%

 

Telekinetics

I'll admit when I first started playing I was a TK-fanboy, I love the chain reaction type game play, playing off procs, and all that jazz (( was totally a Frost DK in Lich King )). Anyways I used 3/31/7 here. I went for 964.5 DPS for the 5 minute limit.

 

Fight Duration 00h 04m 21s

DPS 964.50

Max damage From: Evelynne to: Combat Training Target MK-5 effect: Damage value: 2967 ability: Turbulence

Total Damages Done 251,735.00

Total Threat Generated 251,749.00

Total Damages Absorbed 0.00

Total Interrupts 0.00

Total Dispells 0.00

Damages Done Critic Percentage (Value) 64.71%

Damages Done Critic Percentage (Per Capacity) 43.41%

 

Conclusion

The evidence here shows that in a controlled enviroment, all three builds perform the same, but each will out perform another in certain situations. They Hybrid build can literally go on forever, I'm not even sure I dropped below 70% force, Balance obviously has an edge in PvP where resource management isn't as important, and Telekinetics obviously shines when you can stand still for long periods of time, and even more so when group armor pen is present.

 

In closing, play what feels comfortable, and PvP stats are a horrible basis for conclusions as they're based on player skill in said situation, IE WHAT YOU DO IN PVP ISN'T WHAT SOMEONE ELSE WILL, and it's all sort of impolite and egotistical to say that's their problem.

 

EDIT:

Gear

Bonus Damage 611.1

Bonus Healing 439.9

Accuracy 101.44%

Critical Chance 29.92%

Critical Multiplier 70.35%

Activation Speed: 8.86%

Willpower 1506

 

Columi Headpiece,

Augmented Jedi Sage Vestments (101 Endruance, 121 Willpower, 44 Critical Rating, 48 Surge Rating)

Ancient Battlemind's Gloves (Columi Hand)

Rakata Force-Master's Bracers

Rakata Stalker's Belt

Ancient Battlemind's Lower Robe (91 Endurance, 105 Willpower, 44 Power, 48 Alacrity)

Balmorran Resistance Boots (75 Endurance, 85 Willpower, 56 Power, 40 Alacrity)

(Missing) Matrix Cube

Relic of Boundless Ages

Tionese Force-Master's Focus

Tionese Force-Master's Relay

Two Crafted Epic 49 Implants.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Myxam

[QiwiLisolet]

For Hybrid I tried the 0/25/16 build I've seen whispered about in dark corners of the forums. Now I was suprised by this since it's bread and butter was Disturbence, an ability basically discounted as 'worthless' before my hiatus from the game.

 

I believe the 'hybrid' build people use is a Lightning Barrage 1/12/28 build, which uses Disruption at about the same rate it uses Double Strike.

[Sharee]

Some observations.

 

My stats came out at an underwhelming 964 dps with crushed, the DoT portion of Mind Crush dealing a whopping 43% of my damage.

 

That's not the DoT portion of Mind Crush. That's the periodic damage from Telekinetic Throw. The Mind Crush DoT portion is the "Crushed(Force)" part. Here's a portion of my combat log(http://www.torparse.com/a/29173):

 

 

11:11:43.619 Stax enters combat.

11:11:43.700 Stax activates Telekinetic Throw.

11:11:43.701 Stax spends 30 .

11:11:43.701 Stax loses Sprint.

11:11:43.701 Stax's Telekinetic Throw adds effect Slowed (Physical) to HyperMatter Sentinel Droid.

11:11:43.702 Stax gains 6 .

11:11:43.703 Stax's Crushed hits HyperMatter Sentinel Droid for 452 kinetic damage, causing 452 threat.

11:11:44.628 Stax gains 6 .

11:11:44.628 Stax's Crushed critcally hits HyperMatter Sentinel Droid for 776* kinetic damage, causing 776 threat!

11:11:45.514 Stax gains Presence of Mind.

11:11:45.516 Stax gains 1 .

11:11:45.516 Stax's Crushed hits HyperMatter Sentinel Droid for 452 kinetic damage, causing 452 threat.

11:11:46.426 Stax's Crushed critcally hits HyperMatter Sentinel Droid for 776* kinetic damage, causing 776 threat!

11:11:46.426 Stax's Telekinetic Throw effect of Slowed (Physical) fades from HyperMatter Sentinel Droid.

11:11:48.240 Stax activates Mind Crush.

11:11:48.241 Stax spends 40 .

11:11:48.241 Stax's Mind Crush adds effect Crushed (Force) to HyperMatter Sentinel Droid.

 

Another matter, why did you use disturbance in the balance build? Normally i TK throw until POM procs, then mind crush, weaken mind, sever force, FiB to boost all dot damage by 20%, Project, TK throw twice, then stuff is off CD and i can repeat the sequence. No room for disturbances.

 

And finally, the spec you used does not have the 10% AOE damage from seer which is nice for FiB boosting.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Sharee

[Vales]

Would it not be better to use FiB before applying the DoTs? Or do DoTs already applied to the target profit from the damage buff from FiB? Just asking.

 

Also, why not use Mind Crush for TK? It deals more DPS than Disturbance iirc.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Vales

[Sharee]

Would it not be better to use FiB before applying the DoTs? Or do DoTs already applied to the target profit from the damage buff from FiB? Just asking.

 

Also, why not use Mind Crush for TK? It deals more DPS than Disturbance iirc.

 

Not sure if you addressed me, but i use FiB after the DOT's because FiB is a big hit that everybody notices. Dot applications are not. Often when you target people in PvP they wont notice you attacking until all dots are applied and they get hit by FiB, and by that time it's too late for them.

 

Damage-wise it does not make a difference, as FiB damage boost only lasts for 10 dot ticks, so whether they are the first 10 or last 10 ticks the boost is the same(the total number of times all 3 of your dots tick is more than 10).

It just compresses the most damage dealt into a shorter period of time(late-applied FiB boosts the ticks that are applied at the same time as your follow-up project/TK throws creating a big burst of damage)

 

And it indeed makes sense to use the TK proc(presence of mind) on mind crush and not disturbance as the former benefits from the +30% surge from Mental scarring.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Sharee

[RanisTheSlayer]

For the balance spec, maintaining the 2-set bonus and putting 3 points in Inner Strength for your 7 in Telekinetics are the most important things you can do. Keeping a low amount of alacrity to keep TK Throw around 2.8-2.9 second cast, will actually give you a net gain in force; on fights like Annhialator Droid, where I don't have to move, my force never goes below 88%.

 

My sage is in full rakata + black hole, fully raid buffed I have 2004 willpower, and I average 1440 dps (according to Mox) on the operations training dummy. Full balance is absolutely the way to go.

[Lugh]

Some observations.

 

 

 

That's not the DoT portion of Mind Crush. That's the periodic damage from Telekinetic Throw. The Mind Crush DoT portion is the "Crushed(Force)" part. Here's a portion of my combat log(http://www.torparse.com/a/29173):

 

 

11:11:43.619 Stax enters combat.

11:11:43.700 Stax activates Telekinetic Throw.

11:11:43.701 Stax spends 30 .

11:11:43.701 Stax loses Sprint.

11:11:43.701 Stax's Telekinetic Throw adds effect Slowed (Physical) to HyperMatter Sentinel Droid.

11:11:43.702 Stax gains 6 .

11:11:43.703 Stax's Crushed hits HyperMatter Sentinel Droid for 452 kinetic damage, causing 452 threat.

11:11:44.628 Stax gains 6 .

11:11:44.628 Stax's Crushed critcally hits HyperMatter Sentinel Droid for 776* kinetic damage, causing 776 threat!

11:11:45.514 Stax gains Presence of Mind.

11:11:45.516 Stax gains 1 .

11:11:45.516 Stax's Crushed hits HyperMatter Sentinel Droid for 452 kinetic damage, causing 452 threat.

11:11:46.426 Stax's Crushed critcally hits HyperMatter Sentinel Droid for 776* kinetic damage, causing 776 threat!

11:11:46.426 Stax's Telekinetic Throw effect of Slowed (Physical) fades from HyperMatter Sentinel Droid.

11:11:48.240 Stax activates Mind Crush.

11:11:48.241 Stax spends 40 .

11:11:48.241 Stax's Mind Crush adds effect Crushed (Force) to HyperMatter Sentinel Droid.

 

Another matter, why did you use disturbance in the balance build? Normally i TK throw until POM procs, then mind crush, weaken mind, sever force, FiB to boost all dot damage by 20%, Project, TK throw twice, then stuff is off CD and i can repeat the sequence. No room for disturbances.

 

And finally, the spec you used does not have the 10% AOE damage from seer which is nice for FiB boosting.

 

Because it yields higher damage than the Mind Crush with the extra 30% proc .... people don't believe it, but it's true...

You always have room for disturbance even with mind crush reduced to 12 seconds there are at least 1 maybe two GCDs where you don't have MC up and available.

 

And that double thump of TK wave makes my inner child grin from ear to ear especially when it makes an entire group of enemy sorcerers freak out and force speed away...

[Sharee]

Because it yields higher damage than the Mind Crush with the extra 30% proc .... people don't believe it, but it's true...

You always have room for disturbance even with mind crush reduced to 12 seconds there are at least 1 maybe two GCDs where you don't have MC up and available.

 

And that double thump of TK wave makes my inner child grin from ear to ear especially when it makes an entire group of enemy sorcerers freak out and force speed away...

 

Using disturbance to take advantage of POM procs at time when MC is on cooldown makes sense, i didn't think of that. Will to test it out.

[Myxam]

Some observations.

 

 

 

That's not the DoT portion of Mind Crush. That's the periodic damage from Telekinetic Throw. The Mind Crush DoT portion is the "Crushed(Force)" part. Here's a portion of my combat log(http://www.torparse.com/a/29173):

 

 

11:11:43.619 Stax enters combat.

11:11:43.700 Stax activates Telekinetic Throw.

11:11:43.701 Stax spends 30 .

11:11:43.701 Stax loses Sprint.

11:11:43.701 Stax's Telekinetic Throw adds effect Slowed (Physical) to HyperMatter Sentinel Droid.

11:11:43.702 Stax gains 6 .

11:11:43.703 Stax's Crushed hits HyperMatter Sentinel Droid for 452 kinetic damage, causing 452 threat.

11:11:44.628 Stax gains 6 .

11:11:44.628 Stax's Crushed critcally hits HyperMatter Sentinel Droid for 776* kinetic damage, causing 776 threat!

11:11:45.514 Stax gains Presence of Mind.

11:11:45.516 Stax gains 1 .

11:11:45.516 Stax's Crushed hits HyperMatter Sentinel Droid for 452 kinetic damage, causing 452 threat.

11:11:46.426 Stax's Crushed critcally hits HyperMatter Sentinel Droid for 776* kinetic damage, causing 776 threat!

11:11:46.426 Stax's Telekinetic Throw effect of Slowed (Physical) fades from HyperMatter Sentinel Droid.

11:11:48.240 Stax activates Mind Crush.

11:11:48.241 Stax spends 40 .

11:11:48.241 Stax's Mind Crush adds effect Crushed (Force) to HyperMatter Sentinel Droid.

 

Another matter, why did you use disturbance in the balance build? Normally i TK throw until POM procs, then mind crush, weaken mind, sever force, FiB to boost all dot damage by 20%, Project, TK throw twice, then stuff is off CD and i can repeat the sequence. No room for disturbances.

 

And finally, the spec you used does not have the 10% AOE damage from seer which is nice for FiB boosting.

 

Yes, that dealt 43% of the damage done, and it doesn't increase the damage from DoTs since this was a single target test, not a mulittarget. If you follow the link I provided in the Balance Section you'll have access to every parse I ran that morning.

 

And I'll say that I did not optimize gear for any of these builds, and I'll post my stats in the OP.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Myxam

[eventidephoenix]

I use 1/12/28[balance?], and have made several observations:

Awesome DPS, zero flexibility. You just DPS or run out of force distributing bubbles. Gives some degree of mobility.

On the ops dummy I can churn out about 1400~1600 DPS (Fully augmented rakata/columni armor, Blackhole offhand, campaign relic with internal damage)

 

 

On my PvE spec, I churn about 20% less dps (0/20/21 [hybrid?]) but a lot better force management and i can give out bubbles in huge 16-man ops groups where the healers have too much on their hands

 

 

So i like to stick to my balance spec for extremely difficult ops like EC HM, and go for more flexibility (and save money respeccing ) for anything else

[Vales]

Not sure if you addressed me, but i use FiB after the DOT's because FiB is a big hit that everybody notices. Dot applications are not. Often when you target people in PvP they wont notice you attacking until all dots are applied and they get hit by FiB, and by that time it's too late for them.

 

Damage-wise it does not make a difference, as FiB damage boost only lasts for 10 dot ticks, so whether they are the first 10 or last 10 ticks the boost is the same(the total number of times all 3 of your dots tick is more than 10).

It just compresses the most damage dealt into a shorter period of time(late-applied FiB boosts the ticks that are applied at the same time as your follow-up project/TK throws creating a big burst of damage)

 

And it indeed makes sense to use the TK proc(presence of mind) on mind crush and not disturbance as the former benefits from the +30% surge from Mental scarring.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[Sharee]

and it doesn't increase the damage from DoTs since this was a single target test, not a mulittarget.

 

I am not sure i understand. What does the number of targets have to do with increasing damage from DOT's? FiB increases DOT damage regardless of whether its used against one target or against multiple targets. Or did you mean something else?

[Sharee]

Using disturbance to take advantage of POM procs at time when MC is on cooldown makes sense, i didn't think of that. Will to test it out.

 

To follow up on this. After some testing, it does not seem to be a good idea. Using POM procs for disturbance lowered the total DPS. I suspect this to be due to:

 

A, disturbance sometimes eating a POM proc making it unavailable for mind crush (because next POM did not proc in time before MC cooldown refreshed) and

B, disturbance(even boosted by POM) being flat out-DPSed by TK throw(see test 4)

 

Test 1: TK spam with MC used (between TK throws) everytime it was off CD and POM buff was up: 1067.99 DPS (http://www.torparse.com/a/33077)

 

Test 2: Same as above, except disturbance was cast (between TK throws) everytime that POM proc was up and MC was down: 991.7 DPS (http://www.torparse.com/a/33081)

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

And for reference

 

Test 3: Pure TK throw spam, nothing else: 933.33 DPS (http://www.torparse.com/a/33096)

 

Test 4: TK throw spam with instant disturbances in-between everytime POM was up: 884.13 DPS (http://www.torparse.com/a/33095)

Edited May 11, 2012 by Sharee

[xenofire]

They really need to combine the sorc and sage forums for damage dealing, there's a bunch of information that's getting dual posted. We've been having this same discussion over on the sorc forums... And theoretically the sim tools show that the hybrid build edges out madness by about a percent and edges out lightning by about two percent.

 

However in practicality and execution, the full lightning/telekenetics builds have been performing significantly better for various reasons... Primarily being that almost all of the fights as is are catered more to the playstyle of the lightning/telekenetics build.

 

What are some of the best on-boss parses you guys are seeing with hybrid or balance? Myself and another sorc in my guild have been able to sustain 1800-2000 consistently in KP and over 1600 consistently in hardmode EC on boss fights. (Hard mode EC has a significant amount of movement, STOP DPS moments that severely penalize classes with dots, and target switching... Which doesn't favor, well, any class at all.)

Edited May 11, 2012 by xenofire

[seektravota]

for pve especially raids where boss fights are long, use 3/31/7.

rotation is, (channel hard cast mind crush when tank is pulling), then spam 1 or 2 disturbance let tank get some aggro, then begin your main rotation:

potency - weaken mind - trinkets - 5% mental alacry - turbulence- (lose aggro spell) spam disturbance, when you get a proc either go telewave or telethrow. repeat. (don't put dots if already have it; but keep dots at all time) --------- when mind crush is ready, hard cast mind crush then immediately follow it with weaken mind it, this way the weaken mind won't consume your global cooldown.

then when you're moving, use "project" to make up for the dps. but then once steady, use the above rotation. if you're getting low on force, disturbance's stack is what get your force back fairly quickly. you shouldn't run into any force issues.

 

i'm in a mixture of warhero/blackhole/rakata gear. this rotation i can produce 1750+ burst dps in 30sec and 1400 sustain dps on the operation training dummy. no force issues.

Edited May 11, 2012 by seektravota

[DirtyBirdie]

Wow i cant believe how bad some of the advice on this thread is... i guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

If i were you i would follow these guidelines to choose your build:

Which builds are the highest DPS in a very general form? From what ive seen the hybrid build still squeaks out a couple of percent over the pure Balance and pure Tele builds, due to the Psychic Projection double dipping. I have also heard that they somehow altered the mechanics of PP so that it is not producing the same way it used to be pre 1.2.2. But the general concencus is that Hybrid > Full Balance > Full Tele although they are very close (1-2% different). Note that these numbers are stationary numbers based on the ideal case.

 

Each build will have it's pros and cons. For example, tele provides a slight edge for burst and will come out slightly ahead on battles like SOA where you have windows to burn an enemy down. The damage is front loaded and when you get at the beginning is what you get during the middle and end for damage. Balance is a much stronger sustained damage spec, with a more ramp-like damage profile, and is ideal for bosses you need to be moving around (Lost island flash, EC). You still have quite a bit of burst viability with a pumped up project, a strong FiB, Force potency, relics and TK throw so don't think you cant burst in full balance because you can.

 

Hybrid i find is great for PvP moreso than PvE as the build can run out of force quite easily, (alot more than the other 2 builds) and the versatility you can gain in the tele tree really compliment the strengths of balance quite nicely against other players.

 

Personally i think full balance is the way to go. The immobility of Tele is just too huge big of an issue for me to even consider viable, and i find the Tele tree to be underpowered to compensate for down time. Think about this. Even in bosses like the fabricator, there will be times where you have to move to kill stun droids, run because you are being targeted, etc. when you will effectively be doing unbuffed WM damage with no only. The balance sage will have 2 dots continuely ticking doing alot more damage a second during these down times. And Fabricator isnt considered to be an overly mobile boss. All bosses require SOME movement.

 

One more point - disturbance is god aweful for DPS. TK Throw is still 50x better of a spell to be casting when your higher priority spells are on cool down due to both base damage and chance to crit every second negating GCDs. Tele requires you to cast disturbance to proc some important abilities in their tree, and for this reason alone i find tele to be limp and weak. I think the reason some of the people play Tele is because its flashier and looks cooler, more of a pew pew sort of feel to it.

 

Do what you like though. My guild runs mox raid meters to see how people are doing, and typically i find that the tele sage in our guild can achieve bigger numbers vs mobs and groups of ez's and i do much better numbers vs bosses in full balance.

[xenofire]

Do what you like though. My guild runs mox raid meters to see how people are doing, and typically i find that the tele sage in our guild can achieve bigger numbers vs mobs and groups of ez's and i do much better numbers vs bosses in full balance.

 

What kind of numbers do you guys achieve? Me and a buddy are running full lightning (the tele equiv) and we win every fight practically. I won tanks last week for the first time, doing about 1700 DPS. In KP last week I did 2k DPS on every fight except for jarg and sorno, which I did about 1850 on. (Jarg and Sorno has the carbonated droids period, and ramping up dots on those guys sucks for our DPS. I can easily maintain over 2k DPS on J/S if I never switch off the bosses, due to multi dotting.)

 

We're not beating our mara's cos they're bad-- in fact they're not, they do the same DPS as marauders I've seen from other guilds-- it's just that fights are better tailored for sorc dps than maras. They frequently push 2k DPS on stand still fights, and do 1700-1800 on everything else.

 

From my own experiences, I crush meters as lightning, and can't do near as well as madness or hybrid because the fights all favor lightning so much, and lightnings rotation/priority system is something you can improv on and still maintain the same DPS wheras with hybrid or full madness you don't have much feasability with your rotation to maintain max dps. That and lightning not being mobile is a lie. A good player can move for up to 4.5s, 3 GCD's, without losing any DPS at all since as long as you have the same number of filler/non filler abilities you can swap your fillers for non fillers at a zero loss. (Which is significantly easier to do with lightning/tele, which arguably makes madness/hybrid LESS mobile.)

 

I'd really just like to see parses of competitively hybrid/madness players doing 1800-2000 DPS in KP. It's really freaking hard to find competent sorc DPS to compare my numbers to, because I am genuinely interested in what is better.

Edited May 11, 2012 by xenofire

[SoonerJBD]

Disturbance is worthless in a balance or 1/12/28 hybrid build. Using PoM procs on it is a complete waste as it is a DPS loss from simply spamming TK Throw even with the damage buff from PoM. The only reason to use Disturbance is in a TK build where it gives you procs. Disturbance is sorely in need of a buff. They at least need to make it worth spending PoM procs on it when Mind Crush is on cooldown. When you compare its damage to similar base abilities like grav round or even TK Throw, it is pathetic.

 

I'm not suggesting Disturbance should hit harder than Force in Balance or anything, but with a 20 percent buff from PoM, it should at least do enough damage to make it worth casting for some burst, which Sages sorely lack.

[Vales]

Disturbance is worthless in a balance or 1/12/28 hybrid build. Using PoM procs on it is a complete waste as it is a DPS loss from simply spamming TK Throw even with the damage buff from PoM. The only reason to use Disturbance is in a TK build where it gives you procs. Disturbance is sorely in need of a buff. They at least need to make it worth spending PoM procs on it when Mind Crush is on cooldown. When you compare its damage to similar base abilities like grav round or even TK Throw, it is pathetic.

 

I'm not suggesting Disturbance should hit harder than Force in Balance or anything, but with a 20 percent buff from PoM, it should at least do enough damage to make it worth casting for some burst, which Sages sorely lack.

 

I'd say with the TK Momentum and Reverbation talents it hits decently hard actually and I do not use it just for proccing instant TK Waves.

 

Personally i think full balance is the way to go. The immobility of Tele is just too huge big of an issue for me to even consider viable, and i find the Tele tree to be underpowered to compensate for down time.

 

Even in PvP you have to stand nearly as much as TK since your main damage comes from TK Throw with PoM Mind Crush. You also need it a lot to keep your force pool up.

And woe if healers pay attention and dispel your DoTs.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Vales

[SoonerJBD]

I'd say with the TK Momentum and Reverbation talents it hits decently hard actually and I do not use it just for proccing instant TK Waves.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Reverberation affects Disturbance. It increases the crit chance of Weaken Mind, TK Wave and Turbulence. TK Momentum is nice, but even with a 30 percent damage buff, Disturbance is going to do about the same damage as TK Throw with the buffs in the balance tree, but you only get it a third of the time. To me, the only reason to use Disturbance is Tidal Force because instant TK Waves are awesome. Disturbance needs a buff big time. It would mitigate the turreting effect on full TK builds, and it would give hybrid and balance builds a reason to cast Disturbance when they get PoM procs and Mind Crush is on cooldown.

[Vales]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Reverberation affects Disturbance. It increases the crit chance of Weaken Mind, TK Wave and Turbulence. TK Momentum is nice, but even with a 30 percent damage buff, Disturbance is going to do about the same damage as TK Throw with the buffs in the balance tree, but you only get it a third of the time. To me, the only reason to use Disturbance is Tidal Force because instant TK Waves are awesome. Disturbance needs a buff big time. It would mitigate the turreting effect on full TK builds, and it would give hybrid and balance builds a reason to cast Disturbance when they get PoM procs and Mind Crush is on cooldown.

 

Critical strike damage not chance. And you are correct does not affect Distburbance. Mistake on my part.