Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

[Perfidius]

Hoping someone can explain why the hate for the LFG tool that seems to abound on these forums, and if my thinking is so way off mark! Having played MMOs since Ultima Online, through SWG, WOW, RIFT, EQ, STO, LOTRO etc, I have seen various implementations of the above tool, and can honestly say, the tool improves MY gaming experience massively, just wondering why the hate, and how it has such a negative impact on others

 

So far the common arguments I have seen, which dont seem to hold any weight are:

 

'It ruins the community' - really? I fail to see how general chat spam of "LF2M Healer and Tank" over and over quantifies as community (and normally in caps)!! Those who argue you should make your own friends and guild mates, well then clearly you are very fortunate to have so many friends playing SWTOR at the same time who are wanting to instance at the same time that you wont need the LFG Tool, so again, I fail to see why the hate.

 

'All that is needed is a Global General Chat' - this would be great, but again would just be filled with spam, and also all the idiotic chatter about chuck norris, or how someone did something to someone elses mom, and actually have very little impact on LFG due to your message being lost in nonsense, not to mention that you have to watch the chat closely incase you miss your option.

 

'It ruins immersion' - normally from pvpers who like to gank people onroute to instance, or from people who want to see peeps travelling. Seems as all the instances are on the Fleets, then again, a LFG tool, even with insta telepor, would hardly ruin this?

 

'People can ninja with immunity' - probably the only valid argument i can see so far, but seems as most items are usable bny anyone and their companion, and people already role on items for their companions, it again looses weight.

 

As I see it the LFG tool means I dont have to spend Ages trying to find a group by sitting in Imperial fleet watching the drivel in general chat, I can play the game, with friends, whilst waiting for my group to assemble. Those who are violently opposed to this dont have to use it afterall, and can continue to spam, or play with their friends. The only valid reason I can think of is that maybe those who oppose it so much are such terrible players, they are afraid their 'friends' will abandon them if it is easier to get a group?!!!

 

Those of you who take time to post constructive posts, thanks, hope it will help to educate/Develop my understanding. Those who just flame, OMG LFG tool is terribad with no justification, please save it for one of the other million threads about LFG tools!

[Artthen]

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Thanks!

[JeramieCrowe]

If you want X-server or if you don't want X-server doesn't matter. If we all teamed up and aksed for an LFG with an X-server TOGGLE, we'd all get what we want. So stop debating and ask for it!

 

 

As a side note: James Ohlen said "NO MERGES". If anyone wants to post here, please consider the fact that the merges JO is speaking of is NOT the same thing as transferring off of dead servers and shutting them down. Thanks.

 

Transfer/shut-downs are VERY LIKELY going to happen to cull the number of servers that are currently available. But, again, that is NOT a merge.

Edited May 10, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[HumanSheild]

Real simple. It doesnt work.

 

How is anyone going to follow the chat dialog when you have 6-12 trolls spaming chat with some nonsense topic.

 

I spent half hour trying to get a group only to land in a fail group only to exit before its done. When i try to get another group, its the same hassle. The main reason i dont do fp's is because of this crap. Same goes for heroics too.

[Skwark]

There is even a discussion still about the usefulness of LFG tool? Damn... everyone who thinks it's not needed should wash their brains - assuming they have any - As for now you have two choices, let me put numbers next to it so all of you LFG haters can actually see them:

 

1. You sit still on the fleet station and occasionally spam the general channel with DPS LFG whatever. While doing this, you are pretty much limited to sit around and get your *** bored to oblivion, maybe jump to a warzone or two when no one is responding, no dailies, no nothing. For people with work, who need to "make money" themselves and not wait for their parents to give them some, it is a waste of their -already limited - free time.

 

2. You flag yourself with the BWs current utterly useless LFG "tool", add a comment and wait. The problem is, that this isn't even a tool and I guarantee, that there are loads of people who doesn't even know about this "tool" being there.

 

Now, how would it look with the LFG tool? Again, numbers so troglodytes can see what I mean:

1. I open up a LFG window

2. I choose a Flashpoint I want to do

3. I choose my role

4. I click "start"

5. I continue playing and doing whatever I was - without wasting my godamn time!

6. I found the group

7. I can use a quick travel option to the Carrick station or I travel there myself

8. ME = a happy subscriber

 

 

People who think of some bizzare things to justify the lack of LFG tool are probably the ones, who do the flashpoints regularly with their RL friends who play this game aswell or guildies and they just dont want to make it easier for everyone, they want to be "elite". LFG tool destroying community? B.Please...

 

Right now I'am not doing any flaspoints with my alt (lvl 20ish) because of the "waste time" factor and I bet they will keep on loosing subs because of it.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Skwark

[boobaffet]

wouldnt need it if the server had a decent population

[Reevax]

wouldnt need it if the server had a decent population

 

100% false.

 

The idea is being able to play on your schedule when you want and when you have time. Server pop goes up and down, people come, people go, and there is no sure way you will get run without Cross-server. Much larger pool of people allows you to play when you want, including off peak times.

[Pagan]

I've been playing MMOs sine the original, pre-renicance UO, and my issue isn't with LFG tools in general but with cross server LFG. If there is no reason to think you will ever encounter the people in your group again most people seem to loose all sence of accountability.

 

Cross server grouping does damage the comunity in a few ways, in my experiance. People seem to stop careing about doing thier jobs well, party wiped becuase you (the tank) were chatting with your guild? meh just get another group...

Who cares if your groups healer needs that drop for an upgrade, your companion could use it and what are they going to do, complain to people on thier server? blah.

 

There is so little reason to actualy preform above a passable level in cross server parties and greed gets the best of alot of people.

[Reevax]

I've been playing MMOs sine the original, pre-renicance UO, and my issue isn't with LFG tools in general but with cross server LFG. If there is no reason to think you will ever encounter the people in your group again most people seem to loose all sence of accountability.

 

Cross server grouping does damage the comunity in a few ways, in my experiance. People seem to stop careing about doing thier jobs well, party wiped becuase you (the tank) were chatting with your guild? meh just get another group...

Who cares if your groups healer needs that drop for an upgrade, your companion could use it and what are they going to do, complain to people on thier server? blah.

 

There is so little reason to actualy preform above a passable level in cross server parties and greed gets the best of alot of people.

 

All the things you said happen right now with the exception of being able to get another group.

 

Side note, try calling someone out for ninja looting and watch what happens if they report you.

[Skirata_Kal]

100% false.

 

The idea is being able to play on your schedule when you want and when you have time. Server pop goes up and down, people come, people go, and there is no sure way you will get run without Cross-server. Much larger pool of people allows you to play when you want, including off peak times.

 

Quit using facts and logic. That's not allowed here! I do get an occasional group here and there via the 'correct purist way' or during those occasions when my RL friends and I are free at the same time, but mostly, it's just 'Healer LFG' <crickets>. We've already rerolled twice. We're not doing that again. And we're not paying for a transfer either. Tonight was the second night in a row where fleet and the planets had about a third of their normal numbers on my imp server and the normally quick pvp queues were so long I logged early.

[Skirata_Kal]

All the things you said happen right now with the exception of being able to get another group.

 

Side note, try calling someone out for ninja looting and watch what happens if they report you.

 

^This! Every bad behavior attributed to the xserver LFD existed long before the LFD was implemented and with little to no consequence. And that behavior can easily be found in this game. And you're right about the uselessness of reporting bad behavior. It will just get you branded as a whiner. Too many old school MMO purists are looking at the pre-LFD days through rose colored glasses. Before xserver LFD, if you weren't in one of your server's Leet guilds, your chances of raiding were slim. After LFD, more people were able to get raid geared and our guild flourished (we were successful in BC before LFD too, but that was with just a single 'A-team' and alot of drama. After LFD we had multiple groups going constantly with zero drama). Suddenly those LEET guilds weren't so special anymore...which is a great thing! Yes there were some bad LFD groups and I even had an occasional night where all the groups that night were bad. That was by far the exception though. The vast majority of my LFD groups were good runs.

[Bordak]

I have only played one game with a cross server LFG tool, and it failed so miserably, I had to join a guild just to avoid using it. Even the massively populated game that used the tool had to start bribing everyone just to use the bloody thing. The bribes then had to be upped for tanks and healers so the poor, lonely DPS' could queue up in under 35-60 minutes. When content couldn't be powered through by a group of healers, or soloed by a geared tank, queue times went up because nobody wanted to put up with a content-appropriately geared player.

 

It's a mindset that has already invaded this game. PUGs don't want appropriately geared people. They want people who have cleared raids to do level 50 Flashpoints. Of course, it's common to hear, "if you don't like it, join a guild", but if that's the case, and everyone was in a guild that was actually helpful, there would be no reason to have a cross server LFG. This is commonplace in themepark MMOs. People don't want their time wasted. They want to power through things. Totally understandable.

 

What do you do when you get a person who can't hang? Vote-kick? Heavily abused by guild groups. Get to a certain point, vote-kick the stranger, bring in guildie to hopefully get the piece off the next boss. Perhaps there is no way to get rid of a "bad" player. BRING ON THE TROLOLOLOLOLS. The people who join and just sit there, or run into mobs to pull then log out. There are no repercussions for being a jerk in random server LFG.

 

Almost everyone has horror stories, hence why so many fear an LFG tool like the plague. Unfortunately, without an actual ROBUST server wide LFG tool and corresponding server merges/transfers, it seems the only thing BW can do is copy Ghostcrawler's brainchild and bring on the pain.

[ConradLionhart]

Group finder is definitely needed.

 

When doing missions on my trooper, I cannot spam LFG for a flashpoint on the fleet. There is no official LFG channel like General or Trade, so most people never use the custom made LFG channel.

 

Nobody is against group finder. They are against CROSS-SERVER group finder. Single-server group finder should be a good enough compromise.

[JeramieCrowe]

I have only played one game with a cross server LFG tool, and it failed so miserably, I had to join a guild just to avoid using it. Even the massively populated game that used the tool had to start bribing everyone just to use the bloody thing. The bribes then had to be upped for tanks and healers so the poor, lonely DPS' could queue up in under 35-60 minutes. When content couldn't be powered through by a group of healers, or soloed by a geared tank, queue times went up because nobody wanted to put up with a content-appropriately geared player.

 

It's a mindset that has already invaded this game. PUGs don't want appropriately geared people. They want people who have cleared raids to do level 50 Flashpoints. Of course, it's common to hear, "if you don't like it, join a guild", but if that's the case, and everyone was in a guild that was actually helpful, there would be no reason to have a cross server LFG. This is commonplace in themepark MMOs. People don't want their time wasted. They want to power through things. Totally understandable.

 

What do you do when you get a person who can't hang? Vote-kick? Heavily abused by guild groups. Get to a certain point, vote-kick the stranger, bring in guildie to hopefully get the piece off the next boss. Perhaps there is no way to get rid of a "bad" player. BRING ON THE TROLOLOLOLOLS. The people who join and just sit there, or run into mobs to pull then log out. There are no repercussions for being a jerk in random server LFG.

 

Almost everyone has horror stories, hence why so many fear an LFG tool like the plague. Unfortunately, without an actual ROBUST server wide LFG tool and corresponding server merges/transfers, it seems the only thing BW can do is copy Ghostcrawler's brainchild and bring on the pain.

 

Soooo... toggle it "OFF"...

[Skirata_Kal]

I have only played one game with a cross server LFG tool, and it failed so miserably, I had to join a guild just to avoid using it. Even the massively populated game that used the tool had to start bribing everyone just to use the bloody thing. The bribes then had to be upped for tanks and healers so the poor, lonely DPS' could queue up in under 35-60 minutes. When content couldn't be powered through by a group of healers, or soloed by a geared tank, queue times went up because nobody wanted to put up with a content-appropriately geared player.

 

It's a mindset that has already invaded this game. PUGs don't want appropriately geared people. They want people who have cleared raids to do level 50 Flashpoints. Of course, it's common to hear, "if you don't like it, join a guild", but if that's the case, and everyone was in a guild that was actually helpful, there would be no reason to have a cross server LFG. This is commonplace in themepark MMOs. People don't want their time wasted. They want to power through things. Totally understandable.

 

What do you do when you get a person who can't hang? Vote-kick? Heavily abused by guild groups. Get to a certain point, vote-kick the stranger, bring in guildie to hopefully get the piece off the next boss. Perhaps there is no way to get rid of a "bad" player. BRING ON THE TROLOLOLOLOLS. The people who join and just sit there, or run into mobs to pull then log out. There are no repercussions for being a jerk in random server LFG.

 

Almost everyone has horror stories, hence why so many fear an LFG tool like the plague. Unfortunately, without an actual ROBUST server wide LFG tool and corresponding server merges/transfers, it seems the only thing BW can do is copy Ghostcrawler's brainchild and bring on the pain.

 

I could tell you some horror stories about LFD...but I can also tell you many more that went well. I can also tell you about many same server groups that were uber-fail, troll fests. As I said earlier, every bad behavior you can name, happens in this one without consequence.

[Pagan]

All the things you said happen right now with the exception of being able to get another group.

 

Side note, try calling someone out for ninja looting and watch what happens if they report you.

 

Of cource it happen, I never said it didn't, I said that cross server groups take away any sence of accountability people might have for pulling that garbage...

 

It's realy a moot point since they have already said the LFG tool will not be cross server. I was just explaining my issues as asked by the OP. Trying to argue about it in a thread of this nature would be silly even if your argument was topical to begin with.

[Lazzer]

There is even a discussion still about the usefulness of LFG tool? Damn... everyone who thinks it's not needed should wash their brains - assuming they have any - As for now you have two choices, let me put numbers next to it so all of you LFG haters can actually see them:

 

1. You sit still on the fleet station and occasionally spam the general channel with DPS LFG whatever. While doing this, you are pretty much limited to sit around and get your *** bored to oblivion, maybe jump to a warzone or two when no one is responding, no dailies, no nothing. For people with work, who need to "make money" themselves and not wait for their parents to give them some, it is a waste of their -already limited - free time.

 

2. You flag yourself with the BWs current utterly useless LFG "tool", add a comment and wait. The problem is, that this isn't even a tool and I guarantee, that there are loads of people who doesn't even know about this "tool" being there.

 

Now, how would it look with the LFG tool? Again, numbers so troglodytes can see what I mean:

1. I open up a LFG window

2. I choose a Flashpoint I want to do

3. I choose my role

4. I click "start"

5. I continue playing and doing whatever I was - without wasting my godamn time!

6. I found the group

7. I can use a quick travel option to the Carrick station or I travel there myself

8. ME = a happy subscriber

 

 

People who think of some bizzare things to justify the lack of LFG tool are probably the ones, who do the flashpoints regularly with their RL friends who play this game aswell or guildies and they just dont want to make it easier for everyone, they want to be "elite". LFG tool destroying community? B.Please...

 

Right now I'am not doing any flaspoints with my alt (lvl 20ish) because of the "waste time" factor and I bet they will keep on loosing subs because of it.

 

Actually this is what I am against, the fleet is already nothing more than a waiting room for flashpoints, I'd like to see the flashpoints moved to planets to force people to actually revisit them. With quick travels and virtual queues (like we now have for warzones) it's turning the entire game into a single player story plus a bunch of mini-games.

 

What we need is not more short cuts but everything out in the open world.

[Skirata_Kal]

Soooo... toggle it "OFF"...

 

That's too difficult!

[Skirata_Kal]

Of cource it happen, I never said it didn't, I said that cross server groups take away any sence of accountability people might have for pulling that garbage...

 

It's realy a moot point since they have already said the LFG tool will not be cross server. I was just explaining my issues as asked by the OP. Trying to argue about it in a thread of this nature would be silly even if your argument was topical to begin with.

 

Like there's any accountability now? LMAO.

 

You are right, the first version of the tool as they've announced will be Same Server. And it will add some convenience. I seriously doubt though that it will help much beyond that so yes, it's worth discussing. Judging by how much longer and longer the same server Warzone queueing is getting...definitely looking forward to that going xserver. I think it's a matter of time before they do go xserver with the PvE as well. There's a good chance I won't be around by that time though (which I'm sure you'll all rejoice over)

[chaosdefined]

Group finder is definitely needed.

 

When doing missions on my trooper, I cannot spam LFG for a flashpoint on the fleet. There is no official LFG channel like General or Trade, so most people never use the custom made LFG channel.

 

Nobody is against group finder. They are against CROSS-SERVER group finder. Single-server group finder should be a good enough compromise.

 

You should look up the definition of the word compromise, because that's not it.

 

I'm still amazed at the amount of people who opt to play an MMO and then only want to play with a very small fraction of the playerbase.

End of the day, Cross-Server Group Finder has been successful for other MMO's that used it. How do I know it was successful?

 

People used it.

 

If so many people hated it, they wouldn't use it. Fact.

 

If so many people cared about server community, they would maintain one beyond Cross Server LFG's implimentation. Fact.

 

Nay-sayers may decry this as false, but I'm afraid common sense prevails here. If people cared about something, they'd do it and if they didn't like something they wouldn't use it.

Edited May 10, 2012 by chaosdefined

[Rintoki]

I dont like lfd tool. That way u can just sit and requeue all day and gear up much faster and get items, then you normally would. Wich means you will grow tired even faster. If you gear up faster you, you reach ur goals way faster and makes the game feel much smaller/shorter. Thats how i feel it anyways.

Most ppl i know in wow hate the lfd tool and they dont use it anymore, same goes for me.

 

Spread the flashpoints etc so we need to move around, make lfd chat or something instead. Id rather use 30min/1h looking for ppl on my own, then sitting in a queue waiting for ppl for 30min. Atleast then Im doing somthing while waiting. Lfd tool will end up like wow and tbh i dont think most ppl who play this game wanna end up there.

 

Hopefully they will merge some servers and makes things a bit easier for people to get groups.

And if we do get a lfd tool, atleast keep it to the server, no cross server crap like wow has. That would just make me unsub. Its so nice beeing in a game again where you can remember the people you do dungeon with and do pvp with. Mmo's is about playing with other people and getting to know new people, making cross-server tools will ruin that and make it feel so unpersonal like wow. Wow feels like a solo player game, running around with alot of npc's, do we really want that here too ?

Just think about what kinda players we want here, do we want players who dont have any patience, wanting things in an instant like in wow ? Sure there is the casuals, but casuals played before dungeontools and did just fine.

We make one things easier, then the next will follow, and the next.

 

This is just my own opinion, thanks.

[Rintoki]

And for the ninja crap, with or without the lfd tool. Reporting might not help, but atleast if we keep things on seperate servers those people will get a bad rep and in the end people dont want to play with them. If youre in lfd that person can just go on a ninja spree, ruining it for alot more people.

[chaosdefined]

Most ppl i know in wow hate the lfd tool and they dont use it anymore, same goes for me.

.

 

See, people who don't like it don't use it. But clearly since the majority of the players use it, they don't have as much problem with it as some here make out.

 

Hopefully they will merge some servers

.

 

Not going to happen, not for a very long time. James Olsen has already stated they're not going to do Server Merges.

[chaosdefined]

And for the ninja crap, with or without the lfd tool. Reporting might not help, but atleast if we keep things on seperate servers those people will get a bad rep and in the end people dont want to play with them. If youre in lfd that person can just go on a ninja spree, ruining it for alot more people.

 

Currently happens in game anyway. That's something that has never changed from before Cross Server LFD days. People will ninja no matter what.

 

Besides, according to Bioware there's no such thing as Ninja-ing. They've already said that if someone needs on a piece of loot to vendor, they need the credits and that's not stealing by their book.

[TheSuperD]

I don't get this whole myth of "community". How many random pug players on your server have you actually talked to more than once? Whether it's same-server or cross-server it's the same: group up, run the FP, and forget the peoples' names before you hit the terminal to turn in the daily. The only difference is with same-server it takes 10x longer to find a group, if you can at all.