Subs down 25%

[DarthVindictus]

EQ, EQ2, and SWG didnt do it in the first year, and they didn't need to. For an acurate comparison you need to look at Rift, which had a failed launch just like SWTOR.

 

EQ, EQ2, and SWG all had more players 4 months after launch then they had 1 month after launch. Rift where they really messed up the end game, and set bad expectations in the leveling curve. Just like SWTOR put a lot more effort into BT/Esseles then they did in the end game flash points. In fact if you want a voice acted end game flashpoint you have to recycle the level 12 flashpoint.

 

I can't think of another forking flashpoint in the game (one with more than one option in the encounters). So the best flashpoint is the first one as far as SWTOR technology goes. That being the things that make SWTOR unique. Players know they have tools in the tech chest already, they are just phoning it in for the rest of the flashpoints. The story, drama, and choices make SWTOR unique, they are MIA from the end game content.

 

The thing that made Rift unique was the random world events (Rifts). They set them up as one of the things that made Rift unique. There was no end game utility from these rifts, they just went with the same old tired stuff for their launch end game. Players can get the same old tired stuff from the same old tired venders.

 

In defense of Bioware, they are looking at ways to make the crew skill system, something somewhat unique to SWTOR, more meaningful end game. They need to do more of thise with more of their unique systems. If they embrace their uniqueness of the leveling curve, they may not capture everyone (no one ever will), but they will capture more than the rate they are now.

 

It wasn't the launch of TOR that was the failure, it was a bit afterwards, first, the game wasn't really ready yet, it still felt like a beta, right?

 

Second, because of how popular it was at launch, they had to expand servers.. unfortunately.. the third point happened and the game was going to go downhill.

 

Third. Bioware focused too much on story, not enough on game substance. The content in the game is very mediocre, the combat, the classes (it's all holy trinity, there's no depth, there's no other roles, a game like Lord of the Rings Online has other roles like entire classes devoted to in combat buffs (Captain), or debuffs (Burglar and Loremaster), or even CC (though Burglar and Loremaster double in that role). Here, every class has 1 buff, and debuffs are very limited in scope, and almost every class has limited CC. The result is you only have 3 class roles. Tank, Heal, DPS. YAWN.), WoW had some similar depth (though I think not as much), the PVP being built on a PVP stat that makes you inherently better at PVP, reducing it to a grind that people try to abuse and shortcut, rather than PVP'ing because it's fun. The crafting system is obnoxious because of the time needed to craft each item, and the limits as to how much you can craft at a time, and the crew missions system also taking more time. It's not fun. So there you wreck 3 forms of End Game play, Mediocre Boring PVE instances, Terrible PVP, and an obnoxious crafting system . What's left but to roll alts for more story? Except another failure on Bioware's part... the story is 90% the same for every class. You make 1 republic character, 1 Imperial character, and every character after those shares the same quest stories, it ends up being spacebarred through by I'll wager a majority of the population.

 

In the end devoting so much of the game's budget and resources into story was a bad idea. Because while yes, it makes for a good experience the first time through, after that.. you take away that 4th pillar.. and you're left with a Tripod that's more wobbly than most the other MMO's out there, you can't sit on that stool paying $15 a month, you fall over.

 

So what happened after launch was people left the game after the first month, and now after 3 months, more are leaving. They've leveled a character or two, seen the story, and there's nothing compelling to keep them going.

 

Story only lasts until 50 or the first time you do each instance. After that, you have to rely on SUBSTANCE. Mechanics, gameplay, call it what you will but this game doesn't have it.

 

The game had a terrific launch, 2 million people! That has never happened for an MMO before.

 

But the game itself was a bad foundation to build upon. That is why people are leaving.

 

That is why this game is not the success story people hoped it would be.

[Wolfeisberg]

you only got the 30days with an active subscription so......

 

Which means anybody who had their time expire between April 25th to April 30th got free time which padded the subscription numbers, and for the next quarter, anybody who bought a 6 month sub at launch won't have their time expire till August 21st, which means they would have been counted as subscribers in time for the next report in early august. So yes, this 30 days free helps them pad their numbers for 2 quarters worth of reports.

[nskeen]

really you think there is a lack of communication???

 

I have to hear this please explain to me how there is a lack of communication.

 

You may be satisfied with their one-way conversations with the community. But to COMMUNICATE you need have a dialogue. Go look at the PvP forums with tons of constructive posts and you will find no replies. I don't want to read some vetted questions that make them look good or some lame pod cast where they sit around congratualting themselves.

Edited May 11, 2012 by nskeen

[Revy]

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!

 

WoW has over 10m subscribers, has been going strong since 2004 and Activision ONLY counts paid subscriptions that have been active in the last 30 days.

 

SWTOR has dropped to an alleged 1.3m subscribers, is 5 months old and EA are cynically including trial accounts and free gametime promotions as 'active subscriptions', including the free month they gave away (by SHEER COINCIDENCE) immediately prior to the quarterly report.

 

LOL!

 

Its funny WoW never even had 500,000 at launch and swtor still has over a million, in 7 years time who knows what the player base will be.

 

I the end having 1.3 million players is nothing to be ashamed of. The MMO market is so flooded now that its really quite remarkable.

 

 

Also I will take a 400k loss to the 2 million loss WoW had in less than 5 months.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Revy

[DarthVindictus]

When all the haters are gone, the game and the community will be so much more pleasant. And no, I don't group -- I hate playing with other people. I wanted KOTOR3, and that's mostly what I got.

 

Happy me.

 

You're paying a monthly subscription, for a single player game.

 

That's all kinds of wrong.

 

Hell, subscriptions themselves are an outdated business model. We've been BRAINWASHED over 10 years to accept them as necessary, but they haven't been necessary for years. When the genre first started out? Maybe it was necessary to keep things going. Now? The overwhelming majority of the subscription money goes into pockets, not keeping the servers up.

[TalkingDinosaur]

Its funny WoW never even had 500,000 at launch and swtor still has over a million, in 7 years time who knows what the player base will be.

 

I the end having 1.3 million players is nothing to be ashamed of. The MMO market is so flooded now that its really quite remarkable.

 

 

Also I will take a 400k loss to the 2 million loss WoW had in less than 5 months.

WoW is starting to bleed and it's holy to my eyes to see that monstrosity fall from glory. Pandaria doesn't seem to be reeling in the subs so I look forward to seeing how many subs they lose overall in 2012.

[Deewe]

Its funny WoW never even had 500,000 at launch and swtor still has over a million, in 7 years time who knows what the player base will be.

 

I the end having 1.3 million players is nothing to be ashamed of. The MMO market is so flooded now that its really quite remarkable.

 

 

Also I will take a 400k loss to the 2 million loss WoW had in less than 5 months.

There's a slight difference mind you;

 

1) Wow created the market. When it launched there wasn't 12+ millions MMO players

2) Wow did not drop subs in the firsts months (nor any games but AoC and War). Even otherwise they added clusters. Lots of them

[TheLightningLord]

Its funny WoW never even had 500,000 at launch and swtor still has over a million, in 7 years time who knows what the player base will be.

 

I the end having 1.3 million players is nothing to be ashamed of. The MMO market is so flooded now that its really quite remarkable.

 

 

Also I will take a 400k loss to the 2 million loss WoW had in less than 5 months.

 

The difference is that WoW continued to get better and better after release, that's why it grew exponentially. SWTOR has steadily continued to get WORSE, hence why they are bleeding subscriptions.

 

And having 1.3 million subscriptions when your competition consists of an 8 year old game that people are tired of (WoW) and a niche game that not many people enjoyed (RIFT) is not remarkable. Watch that number plummet now that GW2, Terra, and D3 are arriving. Not to mention Mists of Pandaria, which people will play even though they say that they won't.

[Hajizan]

Which means anybody who had their time expire between April 25th to April 30th got free time which padded the subscription numbers, and for the next quarter, anybody who bought a 6 month sub at launch won't have their time expire till August 21st, which means they would have been counted as subscribers in time for the next report in early august. So yes, this 30 days free helps them pad their numbers for 2 quarters worth of reports.

 

Please keep your numbers to yourself, I really don't like being reminded that I am a idiot for getting a 6 month subscription and how much longer I have to lurk in the forums looking for good news about the future of this game.

[jarjarloves]

You may be satisfied with their one-way conversations with the community. But to COMMUNICATE you need have a dialogue. Go look at the PvP forums with tons of constructive posts and you will find no replies. I don't want to read some vetted questions that make them look good or some lame pod cast where they sit around congratualting themselves.

 

you are aware they take questions directly from the playerbase EVERY WEEK. Name 1 other MMO that does that. Then you have the Guild Sumit, podcast, and the developers talking to the players in the forums directly.

 

What more do you actually want??

[DarthVindictus]

Its funny WoW never even had 500,000 at launch and swtor still has over a million, in 7 years time who knows what the player base will be.

 

I the end having 1.3 million players is nothing to be ashamed of. The MMO market is so flooded now that its really quite remarkable.

 

 

Also I will take a 400k loss to the 2 million loss WoW had in less than 5 months.

 

WoW is from a different era of MMO's, it's the last of that era really. Older MMO's started small, and people gradually came on board after hearing about the game from their friends, seeing videos, etc. It took years for their populations to peak.

 

Since WoW got so big however, MMO's don't do that anymore. Now they're anticipated and people preorder them like crazy expecting the next big thing.

 

They peak IMMEDIATELY after launch, and then the population goes down.

 

They never surpass launch population, until they make the business move to F2P/Freemium. Then their population spikes, and gradually goes back down and settles at a higher plateau than when the game was subscription only. Freemium is a good model, it does bring in more subscribers.

 

Anyway, SWTOR is following the same population patterns as WAR, AoC, LotRO, and Rift..

 

There's no reason to believe the population will ever steadily climb upward.

[nskeen]

Please keep your numbers to yourself, I really don't like being reminded that I am a idiot for getting a 6 month subscription and how much longer I have to lurk in the forums looking for good news about the future of this game.

 

You're not a lone I canceled but still have 40 days left. I come back to the forums in hope that something will change my mind. I really want this game to do well. Each time I come here I get more and more upset. They really think people are happy with their product. They have no clue -- and because they have no clue they will not fix the problems we've all tried so desperately to communicate to them.

[TalkingDinosaur]

You're paying a monthly subscription, for a single player game.

 

That's all kinds of wrong.

 

Hell, subscriptions themselves are an outdated business model. We've been BRAINWASHED over 10 years to accept them as necessary, but they haven't been necessary for years. When the genre first started out? Maybe it was necessary to keep things going. Now? The overwhelming majority of the subscription money goes into pockets, not keeping the servers up.

Brainwashed!?... Wow, it's seriously only a matter of time before the conspiracy theories start rolling out.

 

Did you know Blizzard was part of the Illuminati?

 

By the way, Monthly pay is necessary in MMO's to pay for servers and for developers to create content and yes SOME money goes to pockets because games are not Non-profit. When you get older you'll learn about these things in school.

Edited May 11, 2012 by TalkingDinosaur

[Kthx]

you only got the 30days with an active subscription so......

 

The 30 days, given to a subset of subscribers, will have no significant impact on the long term profitability of the game. All it does is time-shift the results by a few weeks, on average.

[Dezzi]

you are aware they take questions directly from the playerbase EVERY WEEK. Name 1 other MMO that does that. Then you have the Guild Sumit, podcast, and the developers talking to the players in the forums directly.

 

What more do you actually want??

 

The developers at Cryptic for STO continue to engage with their community on a daily, casual basis. They don't hide behind canned write-ups, weekly cherry-picked Q&As, or wasteful summits.

[illgot]

In the next two months we have Diablo 3, The Secret World, and Guild Wars 2.

 

These three games do not have to permanently draw people away but they will heavily impact the already low server populations.

 

I hope, for the sake of players sticking around, that server transfers will happen before TSW and GW2. I have doubts that Bioware can roll out server transfers before Diablo 3 is released.

[Wolfeisberg]

Its funny WoW never even had 500,000 at launch and swtor still has over a million, in 7 years time who knows what the player base will be.

 

I the end having 1.3 million players is nothing to be ashamed of. The MMO market is so flooded now that its really quite remarkable.

 

 

Also I will take a 400k loss to the 2 million loss WoW had in less than 5 months.

 

When WoW launched, the current customer base for MMOs was much much much smaller then what it is now. They launched with 240,000, and after 4 months they had 700,000. By December 2005 5,000,000. Competition was really really low back then, WoW really was the only type of its kind. Today everything is different, there is lots of competition for SWTOR, some that have better systems then SWTOR does, other that do not, and there are new games on the horizon that can be considered next generation that make those games different enough then this WoW/SWTOR generation of games. The likely hood that SWTOR will grow is not likely. It would take Bioware to actually decide that they need to make SWTOR just like WoW as far as quality of life features, and perhaps look into new systems that are coming out. Currently SWTOR is really behind the times.

[Aktavote]

Its funny WoW never even had 500,000 at launch and swtor still has over a million, in 7 years time who knows what the player base will be.

 

I the end having 1.3 million players is nothing to be ashamed of. The MMO market is so flooded now that its really quite remarkable.

 

 

Also I will take a 400k loss to the 2 million loss WoW had in less than 5 months.

 

I feel there is enough wrong with your post to reply.

 

WoW did not lose 2m subs in 5 months.

 

Further more, 1.3m subs for this game is a failure.

The Star Wars IP is supposed to be stronger than that.

The fully voiced cutscenes were supposed to be a big draw card.

This game was supposed to take a big chunk of WoW's player base.

 

They said it in 2008:

http://www.vg247.com/2008/10/24/wow-is-the-target-with-the-old-republic-says-lucasarts-and-ea/

 

They said it again last year:

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/wow-feels-like-a-shopping-list-says-ea/

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/wow-to-lose-big-chunk-of-market-share-to-star-wars-old-republic-says-ea/

[Kthx]

The developers at Cryptic for STO continue to engage with their community on a daily, casual basis. They don't hide behind canned write-ups, weekly cherry-picked Q&As, or wasteful summits.

 

And what is their subscription count?

[Dezzi]

And what is their subscription count?

 

Wait. Are you trying to argue that open developer-player communication is a detriment to the game?

[Andryah]

The developers at Cryptic for STO continue to engage with their community on a daily, casual basis. They don't hide behind canned write-ups, weekly cherry-picked Q&As, or wasteful summits.

 

Yeah, and we can see that this really helped make that game grow and be successful.

 

It matters not how much or how little a development team communicates with players, a self-entitled segment of players will complain that they don't communicate, and will be hyper critical of the developers when they do communicate. These are the same players that insist that changes be made to the game when they want and the way they want simply on the basis that they pay the company $15 a month for access to the game too. There is a certain detachment from reality that goes on within this segment of players IMO.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Andryah

[Dezzi]

Yeah, and we can see that this really helped make that game grow and be successful.

 

It matters not how much or how little a development team communicates with players, a self-entitled segment of players will complain that they don't communicate, and will be hyper critical of the developers when they do communicate. These are the same players that insist that changes be made to the game when they want and the way they want simply on the basis that they pay the company $15 a month for access to the game too. There is a certain detachment from reality that goes on within this segment of players IMO.

 

Being dropped by Atari only to be picked up by PWE is what changed the direction of the game and is ultimately what led to the drop in subscribers, the eventual turn to a F2P model, and the general decline of the game. Or are you, like Kthx, trying to argue that communication from the developers is what caused STO's decline?

 

How does open communication hurt a game?

 

You're basically saying that because they can't please everyone, they shouldn't try.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Dezzi

[Andryah]

That is why this game is not the success story people hoped it would be.

 

You are in no objective position to state why various players leave this game or any other game. You can objectively comment about why you leave the game, but that's it.

 

So basically, you are just making sweeping generalizations, based on your opinion, and calling them fact.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Andryah

[TalkingDinosaur]

Yeah, and we can see that this really helped make that game grow and be successful.

 

It matters not how much or how little a development team communicates with players, a self-entitled segment of players will complain that they don't communicate, and will be hyper critical of the developers when they do communicate. These are the same players that insist that changes be made to the game when they want and the way they want simply on the basis that they pay the company $15 a month for access to the game too. There is a certain detachment from reality that goes on within this segment of players IMO.

How SWG has spoiled us so.

[nskeen]

Yeah, and we can see that this really helped make that game grow and be successful.

 

It matters not how much or how little a development team communicates with players, a self-entitled segment of players will complain that they don't communicate, and will be hyper critical of the developers when they do communicate. These are the same players that insist that changes be made to the game when they want and the way they want simply on the basis that they pay the company $15 a month for access to the game too. There is a certain detachment from reality that goes on within this segment of players IMO.

 

The sad fact is they do not communicate. They spend more time monitoring comments posted on this forums and deleting them when they put the game in a bad light than they do responding to players concerns.