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State of the Shadow 1.2 [Video included]

Xinika

By Xinika
in Shadow / Assassin

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obi_don

obi_don

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The instant WW certainly has its uses but personally I found too many issues in a pug environment; especially given how much resolve it fills. I've played a feral druid to gladiator level in wow so I know my way around instant cast CC.

 

As I said its great in small battles, especially on defence.

 

Anyway, I wasn’t intending to derail the thread. Speaking from my limited time with the spec thus far I found the mobility to be the greatest asset but intend to play around a bit more with it tonight.

Edited by obi_don
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Boarg

Boarg

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http://knotor.com/skills#AgoAHgstSlFia3KCiZGZqrrCytKJq7rL0gAA

 

You can switch things around in tier 1 and 2 of infiltration obviously, though the link contains my preference.

 

The idea is to Project, Force Breach, FiB for burst that is a) greater than CS buffed Project + Force Breach, b) has better mobility and range (nothing like dropping FiB behind you as you move out of the fight and finishing the target off with it) and c) having burst that is 2/3 internal damage and thus great against armored targets.

 

It's an interesting spec, and something I've looked into before...

 

The main thing I didn't like about it was overall damage/force efficiency on the main abilities. Losing the +30% damage on Project takes some of the shine off of it. And FiB is terrific when it costs 25 Force, but at 50 without Mental Potency it's not so amazing. In the long run, we're force limited...so damage/force ends up driving how much damage we can do in the big picture.

 

So, the next step is to consider, well...get Mental Potency. But, that directly cuts into Deep Impact, which is part of what makes FB and Proj hit so hard and be attractive for Infiltration.

 

And if you put much more into Balance, you're looking at a DoT build running Force Tech.

 

Most of the time, I just keep ending up back at one of the full tree specs when I start getting into hybrids. The one exception is the Kinetic hybrids because it ends up being a strong mix of both damage/burst and survivability. And even then, I tend to gravitate away from that in team environment in favor of being more specialized.

Edited by Boarg
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Joshrus

Joshrus

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Overall we are one of the most balanced classes.

 

We can tank Well.

We can DPS Well.

We can Burst Well.

We can cast Well.

 

Of course this depends on the spec. overall we are fine. Comanndos and a few other classes I feel need some love to be on our level.

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Devorasx

Devorasx

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Good summary on the state of shades and sins, but speak more firm and clear next time. I had to replay some parts cause you were giggling and mumbling :p. BUT my goodness Shin, did it take you a whole MONTH to realize that 31/10 sucks? There is a reason why i adamantly defended and have said 24/17 or 23/1/17 is way better for teamplay. Why you said in an earlier occasion (through forums and PM`s) that 24/17 feels less reliant/gimmicky was beyond me, and finally good to see you open your eyes.

 

Now lets break down the specs:

 

KC/Darkness 31/10.

 

As argued before its a mediocre spec, a spec meant to hold out until reinforcements arrive with a dicey self heal mechanic through HD/HS. Its still good if you go all out tank spec w/tank gear making you very hard to kill and can last long. In competitive PVP youre more or less useless as other tanks tank better then you and your dps is next to nothing. Another issue this spec suffers it that its 100% reliant on force powers and barely use melee attacks, gimping your offensive capabilties alot.

 

Infil/Decep 31/10

 

Excellent for burst damage but it suffers in the defense department. As commented before you`re a glass cannon and lack proper defensive CD`s with decent CD timers to survive. If you get a mara/sent dedicated to taking you down, you will eat the dust fast. The question i always pose this spec is how sustainable its damage is over time, if you dont get your opponent to less then 30-40% health at the initial burst. Still ive seen very good shades/sins play this spec with success but in competitive PVP you will just die too fast.

 

Balance/Madness 31/x/x

 

A unique spec which combines lots of force powers with melee. Great! Unfortuantly this spec suffers just like infil/decep does. You`re squichy and die fast due to lack in defensive CD`s and wearing light armour. This spec is great for sustained damage, some self heal, but poor in the burst department. Another unfortunate part of this spec is due to how PVP has changed. TTK has gone down drasticly along with the expertise change, and alot of this specs niche with dots goes to waste. By the time you have applied all dots your target is dead, reducing your damage and effectivness.

Still it has 2 instant CC`s, ranged attacks and decent kiting abilities. In competitive PVP it will just die too fast and i rather take a sorc/sage in this spec anytime.

 

So as Shin has finally realized there is only 1 competitive spec left which somehow combines all the three specs above in some miraculous fashion.

 

24/17 OR 23/1/17.

 

What does this spec have? Its got:

 

- Armour on par with heavy.

- Self heals.

- Good damage in both force and melee attacks hence not gimping or forcing you to choose either of them.

- 2 instant CC`s

- Extended time on Resilience/Force Shroud

- Force speed to break roots and slows.

- An AoE RANGED attack which also heals you.

- Force pull

- Spike/ Spinning kick used out of stealth.

 

All in all an amazing build which has it all. Amazing survivability, good damage, and a good team spec for competitive pvp. The only thing which is in debate is if you use a focus or a shield. I argue for a focus as it increases damage, and the fact that a shield only protect you against white damage. Force and tech attacks make up for most of the damage done which the shield will NOT protect you against, so its better to take a focus to kill then be killed.

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UglyStik

UglyStik

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I just started playing again(school got crazy the last month and a half) and in 1.2.........We are definitely more squishy as KC. AFter getting back I hit 50 and I'm close to having full BM now. It was TERRIBLE after I got into the bracket but its better now that I just need 5 more pieces for full BM. Have yet to try Infiltration since coming back.

 

KC is alright but it is rough at times running solo in warzones because of the lack of true "team play" without premades.

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Payneintherear

Payneintherear

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It's an interesting spec, and something I've looked into before...

 

The main thing I didn't like about it was overall damage/force efficiency on the main abilities.

 

It is the big downside to the spec, as I had mentioned. There is however no spec, that will deal as much damage in 3 GCDs for Shadows (especially if you use stalker set and Project for your 3rd charge of force potency). You are pretty much guaranteed 10k+ force damage, 7k+ internal damage with a potential 5-7k extra kinetic force damage and a subsequent Spinning Strike.

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Devorasx

Devorasx

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Devoras, I think the minor damage difference between a focus and a shield means that having good defense against white damage is a bigger advantage. That's just me though.

 

Like I said its up for debate. Some prefer more damage others more defense. To each their own.

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Boarg

Boarg

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It is the big downside to the spec, as I had mentioned. There is however no spec, that will deal as much damage in 3 GCDs for Shadows (especially if you use stalker set and Project for your 3rd charge of force potency). You are pretty much guaranteed 10k+ force damage, 7k+ internal damage with a potential 5-7k extra kinetic force damage and a subsequent Spinning Strike.

 

For 3 GCD's, regular Infiltration would be pretty much the same using a Find Weakness proc in place of the FiB in that sequence. The SS would generally do a big less damage to most targets, but that's made up for with Project hitting 30% harder.

 

And if you start down the road of extending the uptime/burst window....your still has the FW proc in it's back pocket, but it's actually worse off from being OOF from spending 50 Force on FiB.

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Payneintherear

Payneintherear

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For 3 GCD's, regular Infiltration would be pretty much the same using a Find Weakness proc in place of the FiB in that sequence. The SS would generally do a big less damage to most targets, but that's made up for with Project hitting 30% harder.

 

And if you start down the road of extending the uptime/burst window....your still has the FW proc in it's back pocket, but it's actually worse off from being OOF from spending 50 Force on FiB.

 

You still have the downside of having to set up the burst with 2xCS and being able to apply that SS without delay. We are then looking at uncertain 3 GCDs within a 5 GCD window (2xCS, Project, FB, SS vs Project, FB, FiB, SS, DS). It really boils down to more predictable, a little more shaky and more efficient burst vs. less predictable, more on demand, more expensive burst.

 

I prefer the ladder as I feel I am a lot less pressured into brawling and have to stay within 10m for only 2 GCDs most of the time, move out of battle with FiB and if needed go back in to finish the opponent with Spinning Strike or Project (at this point the opponent is not hitting back anymore usually and trying to retreat).

 

Also in a 1vs.1 situation, I can go Project, FB, FiB, Low Slash, regen for 4s, SS, Project Spinning Strike. If I do that with a 31 build I usually have to forego the second CS build up, cause I don't want to break Low Slash for a single CS.

Edited by Payneintherear
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Boarg

Boarg

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You still have the downside of having to set up the burst with 2xCS and being able to apply that SS without delay. We are then looking at uncertain 3 GCDs within a 5 GCD window (2xCS, Project, FB, SS vs Project, FB, FiB, SS, DS). It really boils down to more predictable, a little more shaky and more efficient burst vs. less predictable, more on demand, more expensive burst.

 

I prefer the ladder as I feel I am a lot less pressured into brawling and have to stay within 10m for only 2 GCDs most of the time, move out of battle with FiB and if needed go back in to finish the opponent with Spinning Strike or Project (at this point the opponent is not hitting back anymore usually and trying to retreat).

 

Also in a 1vs.1 situation, I can go Project, FB, FiB, Low Slash, regen for 4s, SS, Project Spinning Strike. If I do that with a 31 build I usually have to forego the second CS build up, cause I don't want to break Low Slash for a single CS.

 

You really ought to be using 2xDS before Project in your spec too, though - to get Circling Shadows. Project damage/force is pretty lame without it.

 

Using a 39 force Project and a 50 force FiB in the same sequence is an extremely inefficient use of a force bar. You probably can't even afford do do that initial 4 GCD sequence (144 force) to them (leading into the stand and regen) without Shadow's Respite/Blackout or a Profundity proc.

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Xienive

Xienive

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From my own testing I have found 31/2/8 to be the most effective build for me personally. Adding in shadow strike can give you some good burst at times not to mention it is a lot more fun to play with it. Still lots of survivability and DPS here, and you get pull...not much else to say that hasn't been said. I tried switching slow time for force in balance but I didn't like it.

 

 

Infiltration is still most fun, and I have found it to be useful in certain situations...but like you said when your cooldowns aren't up...meh. The biggest problem I find with Infiltration is a lot of the time you are a weaker version of a good Sentinel. I really think giving Infiltration a pull or a leap would help it out a ton.

 

 

I have never really been a fan of balance, and havent' played it too much because DoT's aren't my playstyle in this kind of class.

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Payneintherear

Payneintherear

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You really ought to be using 2xDS before Project in your spec too, though - to get Circling Shadows. Project damage/force is pretty lame without it.

 

Using a 39 force Project and a 50 force FiB in the same sequence is an extremely inefficient use of a force bar. You probably can't even afford do do that initial 4 GCD sequence (144 force) to them (leading into the stand and regen) without Shadow's Respite/Blackout or a Profundity proc.

 

Well, it's a little different for me since I run a high crit build in infiltration and the Force Mystic set bonus. Whenever I can I obviously make use of stealth, which paired with my large force buffer, gets me pretty far into a rotation. I usually go Project, FB, FiB, Shadow Strike (DS, if I am not in position), then either Project and/or SS and Spinning Strike if needed. That's about 198 force over 7 GCDs. Even at only 1 Profundity proc over this period and no Blackout/stealth, I have lost less than 150 force (198-66 from natural regen and a profundity proc).

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Xinika

Xinika

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In the Akira spec, are you gearing up full stalker or are you going for the 2pc +50force bonus instead of the 3 stacks of Force Potency?

 

Stalker, but I'd love to test that 50+ force 2pc bonus out to be honest.

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