There is no fun in losing 100% of the time....

[JediKalel]

This post is complete nonsense. It doesn't even make any sense. First of the weekly is trivial to get. I don't know anyone in the game who can't win 9 wzs in a week, and I call bs to anyone who plays this game with some regularity who claims they can't. Second of all, WH gear is only ~3% better than BM gear. Third of all, if your side has only 10 people and they were all good, you would be in the situation I explained before where your side wins a huge amount of games. Fourthly, throwing games to your own side is pretty ridiculous and far from optimal use of your guildies time.

 

So I mean, yes it does come down to how good your servers pvpers are, but that has nothing to do with population perse. If there are only 8 players on your side, and 7 of them are bad, then yes you will lose a lot of games. However if you added 1000 players to your queue that were all baddies, it wouldn't improve things in the slightest, and would actually make it a tiny bit worse statistically.

 

Dude, youre full of it.... roll a toon on my server and see for yourself mmk?

 

The 10 players on the low pop side who actually PvP are not all even in the same guild lol... ITS A POPULATION PROBLEM.... if you dont have the population to make the game work, then it doesnt work. I cant explain it to you obviously because you already said you are on a high pop server that doesnt have these problems... so you believe what you want and I will know what I know from my experience.

[Odahviin]

Yeah, PvP should so decided by gear and not skill.

 

Your absolutely right.

 

If he had skill he would be capturing objectives and working as a team to "WIN" which in turn would earn him comms / gear

 

 

why don't you and the OP go play street fighter (that way you won't ever have to worry about gear progression at all)

 

see the link below for "skill"

 

your looking for the 2:44 mark

 

jeez

Edited May 10, 2012 by Odahviin

[silvershadez]

I believe he said that it was no fun to lose every single time EVEN IF you get rewarded.... his argument is that populations are low and unbalanced on many servers, which causes one side to be steamrollers while the other is sit and spin. Its not fun to lose every single match just to get valor/comms to eventually catch up to the dominant side of your low pop server... people will and ALREADY HAVE quit PvP at all due to this on my server.

 

On my server the republic is heavily outnumbered by imperials, still the reps are the dominating side. If people quit on your server because they are losing, then they are bad losers.

 

You may ask yourself why you are losing that much. And don't tell me it's the gear. You can get full BM gear within 1-2 weeks of losing now. Giving the losing team more rewards then the winning team (and that's what the OP wanted) is just stupid. There would be no point in winning anymore. I think you can guess how much worse things would get if they would change it that way.

 

It's a game and losing is part of it. You may reconsider playing any games if you can't handle lost games.

[JediKalel]

On my server the republic is heavily outnumbered by imperials, still the reps are the dominating side. If people quit on your server because they are losing, then they are bad losers.

 

You may ask yourself why you are losing that much. And don't tell me it's the gear. You can get full BM gear within 1-2 weeks of losing now. Giving the losing team more rewards then the winning team (and that's what the OP wanted) is just stupid. There would be no point in winning anymore. I think you can guess how much worse things would get if they would change it that way.

 

It's a game and losing is part of it. You may reconsider playing any games if you can't handle lost games.

 

People quit because there is no fun in losing 20 games in a row to the same premades that are fully geared just to win 1 and earning enough comms to get 1 piece of BM gear a week because it takes 2 weeks to get the weekly done... I dont want more rewards, I want more population or cross server queues to balance out the gameplay.

 

I know the GM of the guild on imp side that has two 8 man groups of full WH geared premades... he even says they are getting bored with no competition and hardly any queues that are not same faction because the populations are too low and or people on pub side quit because of the imbalance.

[Slashtwo]

Yes, the problem is you. Are you upset because you're losing to people better than you? Are you upset because you are losing to better geared players, or are you upset because you're losing to premades? The difference between a battlemaster set and a warhero is marginal.

 

A bot could average 8 medals per game just by standing on an objective, Bioware has made it insanely easy to get gear. I have no idea how people could even complain about the PvP gear progression in its current state. It's far too easy to get gear imo.

 

TLDR;

Don't like premades? Make your own.

Can't beat other premades? It's because they're better.

Cry about gear differences? It's really class mechanics and skill.

Cant average 8 medals per game? Go back to huffing glue and fingerpainting.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Slashtwo

[oncura]

People in this MMO are rediculous.

 

1) The best are the best, why make them better?

that's easy, because they earned it. Why should some one who just plain sucks have the best gear? On my server i see the worst players in War Hero and they still suck, and its not uncommon its tons of people. If you dont deserve the gear, it shouldn't be easily obtained.

 

2) To those losing alot due to server pop and the WoW Horde/Alliance type situation (every1 being sith)

Yeah that does suck that you have a low pop, but even on my server with a bit more pop then some others I'm always playing with the same trash, minus maybe 3 guild mates, and we have dominated entire days of game play. Find a core group it's all you need. Bioware doesnt need cross-server pvp, they need to cut the amount of servers in 1/2 at this time.

 

More i could say, but MMO players these days have no patience, loyalty or understand what hard work is. If something is hard, requires time, or some degree of effort, they run screaming to other mmo's. I've played a bit of older MMO, and the best were the best cause they were skilled and earned their stuff, or were a guild leader and had everything handed to em, but thats how it goes. Stop complaining and get better at PvP. One person can quite literally win a pvp match. I have myself, and seen others single handedly somehow save their rediculous PuG from losing, many times. Besides, getting all BM gear is quite ez now even if your losing constantly, and its close enough to war hero that if your being dominated, it isnt your gear its you.

[Kaarsa]

 

The 10 players on the low pop side who actually PvP are not all even in the same guild lol....

 

Great, so you can PM those 10 players, get them on voice comm and you have a constant 8 man premade (while enemy probably have 4 man pramade) and that gives you substantial advantage.

 

You dont want to do that? Other players dont want to cooperate with you? Well, it is COMMUNITY problem.

 

On my server when I get a WZ against republic in the evening empire usualy lose, I can tell if we have a chance before the game even starts - either I can recognize at least 5 other names on my team as good players or we will get rolled, because while republics are only few who pvp, they are all on voice chat and getting BM gear now is easy, so they are basicaly all geared and working as premade, while more populated fraction gets a lot of undergeared/noob players.

[Vales]

Your absolutely right.

 

If he had skill he would be capturing objectives and working as a team to "WIN" which in turn would earn him comms / gear

 

 

why don't you and the OP go play street fighter (that way you won't ever have to worry about gear progression at all)

 

see the link below for "skill"

 

your looking for the 2:44 mark

 

jeez

 

Hahahaha just that Street fighter takes ten times more skill than you or your buddies could ever muster. It is cute how you prove you got 0 clue though.

 

But please continue to delude yourself you are "more" skilled than others and therefore deserve better gear. It is highly amusing. *lol

 

What comes next? Tetris?

 

Dude, youre full of it.... roll a toon on my server and see for yourself mmk?

 

The 10 players on the low pop side who actually PvP are not all even in the same guild lol... ITS A POPULATION PROBLEM.... if you dont have the population to make the game work, then it doesnt work. I cant explain it to you obviously because you already said you are on a high pop server that doesnt have these problems... so you believe what you want and I will know what I know from my experience.

 

They will never understand until they are in the same situation pal. Useless trying to talk sense to them.

On my server I quite often have less than 30 people in republic fleet, at the very best days it can spike to 80.

In the WZs you see the same people and most of them are either bad or have given up and just scrape for few points somehow to get their gear and be done with it. Sad.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Vales

[Totaltrash]

Both, winning and losing in warzones is a team effort (or lack thereof).

 

If your team is good, you might win even if your skill/gear isn't up to par but if your team is bad, no single player can win a warzone just by himself - no matter how well he's geared, no matter how skilled he is or how much e-peen he has - if it were any different, 1 vs 8 matches wouldn't be a problem.

 

If you consistently get matched into bad teams, you will consistently lose.

If you consistently get matched against pre-mades with voice chat, you will consistently lose on a pug team.

If you get matched into uneven warzones - you will lose almost always when your side is short-handed.

If you get matched into a 0:5 huttball with 2 minutes to go - yup, you will always lose.

 

It really comes down to 3 problems:

Low server population for pvp, premades queued vs. pugs, and terrible matchmaking.

 

As an individual player, there is not a whole lot you can do about low server population or Bioware's "awesome" matchmaking system. You can try to find a premade, but that might not be so easy on a low population server or if you are not already geared well - catch 22.

 

The only silver-lining is that with patience and persistence, you are still able to get the best gear regardless of your win-loss record. Of course, if you PVP for competitive fun under those conditions, you are probably out of luck, sorry.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Totaltrash

[LFDUVEZ]

I believe he said that it was no fun to lose every single time EVEN IF you get rewarded.... his argument is that populations are low and unbalanced on many servers, which causes one side to be steamrollers while the other is sit and spin. Its not fun to lose every single match just to get valor/comms to eventually catch up to the dominant side of your low pop server... people will and ALREADY HAVE quit PvP at all due to this on my server.

 

This. Yes, again.

 

And those who say "get better"..... I am don't worry. I was very patient and had "some" fun sometimes hence why I am staying "for now". Eventually, I will be fed up like most I talk to in my faction.

 

I do have good gear but don't you worry I "grinded" for it.

[Olympic]

I don't get the correlation that some people seem to be making between cross-server queues and pre-mades.

 

"I can't wait for cross-server queues, pre-mades are ruining PvP".

 

Is there some logic I'm missing that cross server queues are going to diminish pre-mades? I have news for you, you will face MORE pre-mades when this happens. The good news is people on lower populated servers will get more war zones popping, but the idea that you aren't going to face pre-mades is...misplaced.

 

In addition, those that think cross server queues are going to fix "all these problems"...well, its going to compound most of them, not fix them.

[Skitlz]

Thank you for changing the daily PVP.

 

Yet the problem behind this remains the same.

 

NO COMMENT from Bioware is even more worrying... and the problem worsen:

 

1) Better geared = more medals (THEY DO NOT SCALE................. why????)

2) The loser gets gear slower

3) The winner gets gear faster.... and the more he gets gear the MORE he gets medals (meaning more gear, etc...)

 

VICIOUS circle pattern. Recognized???

 

Losing all the time REGARDLESS if we get medals / commendation = NOT FUN.

 

I am and several others are losing interest. No comment from "official sources" DOES NOT HELP either.

 

Not a circle really. MOre of an exponential rise, ....quadratic. As tiem progresses i get better gear and a much faster rate than you that is ever increasing and thus i will be killing you much much more. SOlution? get some friends and L2P chances are the gear isnt why your losing....its something else.

[Razot]

As long as gear is not normalized then you will never have an equal footing.

 

Most MMOs I PvP in have all had the same problem that they inherited from the 800lbs gorilla.

 

It's a broken and painfull model that doesn't encourage fun competition. It fosters elitism and poor conduct from the players with gear. Some may legitimately be good players but the reality is that many just got their status by playing 14 hours day.

 

PvP becomes frustrating with gear factoring in so prominently....it's supposed to be a fun competition right?

 

Right?

 

This pretty much sums up the whole game and why it has failed.

[Donkeyhacks]

@OP

 

if you were winning and getting the same reward as the loser you'd be complaining that you aren't being rewarded for winning.

you can't be pleased. "oh i lose why shouldn't i get a better reward, oh why are losers getting the same reward as us when we are winning"

 

better reward for winning makes 100% perfect sense. quit the QQ

[JediKalel]

I don't get the correlation that some people seem to be making between cross-server queues and pre-mades.

 

"I can't wait for cross-server queues, pre-mades are ruining PvP".

 

Is there some logic I'm missing that cross server queues are going to diminish pre-mades? I have news for you, you will face MORE pre-mades when this happens. The good news is people on lower populated servers will get more war zones popping, but the idea that you aren't going to face pre-mades is...misplaced.

 

In addition, those that think cross server queues are going to fix "all these problems"...well, its going to compound most of them, not fix them.

 

No one said you wouldnt face premades in cross server queues.... but it WILL mix up the playing field where sometimes you face premades, sometimes you face pugs, sometimes you face WH, sometimes you face BM.... right now its "hey look its those same 8 people I see every day, on my team and the other team.... this is going to be fun... NOT"

[otherworlder]

Premades vs Pugs should never be allowed in games of this kind, ever. To those saying "well, roll your own premade if you don't like being farmed" I just sigh and facepalm.

 

Some of us actually try to show respect to the people we compete against. We enjoy sportsmanship and close matches. If I roll on a premade, then I'LL be the one steamrolling the other team. That's not fun for me either, it's just a no-skill turkey shoot.

 

Sadly that's what most 'leet' players in these games seem to enjoy most. Roll a premade, gear up fast, curbstomp uncoordinated pugs, giggle in ops chat about it.

 

Human nature is just sad.

 

Premades don't form because they're looking to test their teamwork and skills against other top notch players. Premades form so they can dominate pugs and feel good about themselves. If you doubt this (or are on such a premade) ask yourself why you don't split up your team into solo or 2-man queuers when you realize that your competition on a given evening includes nothing but pugs?

 

And I agree with someone above who said Cross-server queues will not fix this issue. By the time BW ever gets those in (still unannounced), likely nothing will be left of the PvP community but the diehard premades and a small base of puggers who will rapidly toss up their hands and unsub when they're still facing nothing but those premades from other servers.

 

Effective matchmaking system needs to come hand in hand with cross server or it will fail. Premades should never be matched against pugs, we'd rather wait around for a decent match than be farmed back to back.

Edited May 10, 2012 by otherworlder

[JediKalel]

@OP

 

if you were winning and getting the same reward as the loser you'd be complaining that you aren't being rewarded for winning.

you can't be pleased. "oh i lose why shouldn't i get a better reward, oh why are losers getting the same reward as us when we are winning"

 

better reward for winning makes 100% perfect sense. quit the QQ

 

Where did anyone say losers should get the same rewards???

 

He said losing every time EVEN IF you get rewarded is no fun, why queue up in a low pop server when you just lost 10 games in a row (like not even a chance of winning), thats not fun... matchmaking based on gear and skill along with some way of increasing pops (server merges / cross server Q's) would be a good step in the direction to fix that.

 

And before anyone chimes in.... yes we all know not every server has this problem:rolleyes:

[Donkeyhacks]

learn from losing. premades vs pugs shouldn't be allowed? why ever not. premades can be beaten.

and losing is only "not fun" if you are playing competitive which means your playing purely to win. im happy enough to just have Queues pop on my server win or lose.

[otherworlder]

learn from losing. premades vs pugs shouldn't be allowed? why ever not. premades can be beaten.

and losing is only "not fun" if you are playing competitive which means your playing purely to win. im happy enough to just have Queues pop on my server win or lose.

 

Losing matches can still be a lot of fun, and a good learning tool. Losing numerous matches in a row in an absolute roflstomp where you can barely approach a node without being locked down and instagibbed is never fun.

 

Yes, some premades stink and can be beaten by Pugs. This is not generally going to happen though.

[Olympic]

Premades vs Pugs should never be allowed in games of this kind, ever. To those saying "well, roll your own premade if you don't like being farmed" I just sigh and facepalm.

 

Some of us actually try to show respect to the people we compete against. We enjoy sportsmanship and close matches. If I roll on a premade, then I'LL be the one steamrolling the other team. That's not fun for me either, it's just a no-skill turkey shoot.

 

Sadly that's what most 'leet' players in these games seem to enjoy most. Roll a premade, gear up fast, curbstomp uncoordinated pugs, giggle in ops chat about it.

 

Human nature is just sad.

 

Premades don't form because they're looking to test their teamwork and skills against other top notch players. Premades form so they can dominate pugs and feel good about themselves. If you doubt this (or are on such a premade) ask yourself why you don't split up your team into solo or 2-man queuers when you realize that your competition on a given evening includes nothing but pugs?

 

And I agree with someone above who said Cross-server queues will not fix this issue. By the time BW ever gets those in (still unannounced), likely nothing will be left of the PvP community but the diehard premades and a small base of puggers who will rapidly toss up their hands and unsub when they're still facing nothing but those premades from other servers.

 

Effective matchmaking system needs to come hand in hand with cross server or it will fail. Premades should never be matched against pugs, we'd rather wait around for a decent match than be farmed back to back.

 

If you really view it as a sport then you should be comfortable with the idea that some games you win big, some games you lose big. That is how sports are. Teams dont win/lose by one point every game. Sometimes they run up the score and win 42 - 0, sometimes it goes the other way.

 

Enjoy the wins, accept the losses. That IS sport.

[otherworlder]

If you really view it as a sport then you should be comfortable with the idea that some games you win big, some games you lose big. That is how sports are. Teams dont win/lose by one point every game. Sometimes they run up the score and win 42 - 0, sometimes it goes the other way.

 

Enjoy the wins, accept the losses. That IS sport.

 

I would agree with you entirely if the teams fielded had potentially equal chances at winning. A pug that steamrolls another pug happens, and is acceptable. A premade that flattens another premade happens, and is acceptable.

 

That's not what I'm talking about.

 

The issue is not comparable to a lesser baseball team being beaten by a better baseball team. A coordinated, overgeared premade with a balanced comp in Vent vs an uncoordinated, undergeared Pug with three mercs is more akin to the NY Yankees playing against a kiddy league Tee ball team.

 

That is not sport.

[olagaton]

The gear imbalance will always be there unless you are the player who runs 24/7. The redeeming factor I take is that these quick-better geared players will eventually get theirs when others start to match their gear. I find nowadays, as I've closed the gear gap between them and myself, that they aren't really good after all, so I kill them relatively easy when gear is similar. You see gear advantages makes players lazy and they take certain things for granted, which ends up being their downfall.

 

Think of it this way - they cap out their gear quick and wreck you for months while you gear up, but when you start matching them and challenging them, they either quit, cry, or adjust. Most don't adjust.

 

Im not sure about you, but I take pride in beating gear bullies into submission.

Edited May 10, 2012 by olagaton

[Olympic]

I would agree with you entirely if the teams fielded had potentially equal chances at winning. A pug that steamrolls another pug happens, and is acceptable. A premade that flattens another premade happens, and is acceptable.

 

That's not what I'm talking about.

 

The issue is not comparable to a lesser baseball team being beaten by a better baseball team. A coordinated, overgeared premade with a balanced comp in Vent vs an uncoordinated, undergeared Pug with three mercs is more akin to the NY Yankees playing against a kiddy league Tee ball team.

 

That is not sport.

 

Well that is like saying its unfair that the team with the league MvP and 10 Pro-Bowlers shouldn't be playing the team in last place.

 

You can't segregate 4 people grouping up from playing in a game where the other team doesn't have 4 people that grouped up together. It simply will not work.

[Dartagon]

Well that is like saying its unfair that the team with the league MvP and 10 Pro-Bowlers shouldn't be playing the team in last place.

 

You can't segregate 4 people grouping up from playing in a game where the other team doesn't have 4 people that grouped up together. It simply will not work.

 

It technically isn't fair, which is why most sports put caps in place to prevent team staking and spreading the talent out to other teams. Its not fun to watch, its not fun to participate in and maybe that's what should be implemented in non rated queues. A skill cap, expertise cap. IE: Rated of X value can't join regular queues or something, or if you are above 1200 expertise you can't have more then 4 on your team w/ that much gear etc.

[otherworlder]

Well that is like saying its unfair that the team with the league MvP and 10 Pro-Bowlers shouldn't be playing the team in last place.

 

You can't segregate 4 people grouping up from playing in a game where the other team doesn't have 4 people that grouped up together. It simply will not work.

 

If implemented properly it could. Any group that queues more than 2 people at once should go into one pool, any group that queues 2 or solo should go into another. Seems fairly simple to me. Your 8 man team might be composed of double 4 mans from different servers while my pug might be pulled from mostly solo queuers with a couple of duos sprinkled in there.

 

Now, that would NOT work same server for obvious reasons (on many servers there's only one team running at a time anyhow) but if cross server gets here fast there's no reason the above couldn't function.

 

That said, I often underestimate the cheap tricks premades will go to in order to ensure they're matched against pugs instead of equal opponents in games of this kind. =/

 

Also, I don't believe BW will actually implement it this way.