when does SWTOR become an MMO?

[keitzy]

280 odd on RF on Dalborah in Oceanic.

"LF2M Heals and Tank for any HM "

Good luck finding that unless your in a guild but even then I see guilds looking for the same class type for OP's and FP's.

You cant group more than 4 for PVP so if you have an 8 man pre made you have to make two groups and hope when queuing together you get the same warzone other wise not queuing in groups for warzones feels like a bunch of individuals running around with their heads cut off.

If you don't have the right gear on Dalborah then you will get kicked from the group so your left to finding a group for a Quick T5 HM once again and again and again and again and again and again.

I still have not completed an OP's yet due to my guild being on so many different times during the day and I wont be accepted to an ops group "You don't have rakata gear" even though columi gear should be adequate for the task.

To me it feels like a single player game that has online players running around with you while doing a multiplayer area or instance.

The Rakghoul event was the closest the game got to feeling like an MMO because you had Imps and Pubs interacting together in the same area which even sometimes broke out into a area pvp war.

Edited May 10, 2012 by keitzy

[allexkramer]

I'm loving Swtor and hating haters.

[Erasimus]

Please enlighten us to what makes an MMORPG. Is it an X-LFG tool? Is it catering to the masses so even the players who have no clue on how to play their characters can have full raid gear?

 

Now I like much about SWTOR and I hope it is successful and they eventually merge servers or design the transfers so that they work. That's why I'm still hanging on even though my son and grandson have given up and moved on.

 

But what makes an MMO and MMO. Well that is somewhat objective but in my opinion there are a few things that are mandatory and a few that are optional.

 

Mandatory:

1. People, lots of people. The server caps should be high enough that you run into people wherever you go. Except for the first couple of weeks that hasn't been true for me and I'm on a server that started out with long queues and lots of people on both the Imperial and Republic fleets. Now we are lucky to have 50-60 during prime on the Republic side and maybe 100-150 on the Imperial side, but usually much less.

 

I still play WoW and on that 8 year old game (which I've played from release) I run into more people in the starting areas than on planets on this 6 month old game. This morning I logged onto my Republic toon to check the AH, there were 3 people on the Republic fleet and 27 people total on the Republic side. Logged into WoW shortly after and there were 45 people in Stormwind alone. Heck there were 15 people in Uldum, probalby picking flowers.

 

2. Encountering People - I have very few encounters while leveling alts in this game. I'm on a PvP server, have leveled 3 characters to 50 and working on my 4th and have had a grand total of 3 spontaenous PvP encounters total while leveling. Heck I can flag, turn myself into a plant, and have more encounters in an hour in the Tol Barad Peninsula when people click on me to "pick" the flower

 

Comments:

Having an LFR/LFD type tools would be nice since I also like meeting new people, especially in PvP. But mostly I shouldn't have to "look" for people to quest with etc. Lots of cooperative games do that. The bustling atmosphere of a crowded city or area, the random encounters with other players, etc. are what differentiate an MMO from just a cooperative game.

 

I do belong to a guild and I can run OPs if I choose. Well I could have before but of the 200+ guild members in my Republic Guild there are lots of days where not enough are on and my 60+ account Imperial guild is usually empty except for me now.

 

I did create some toons on Fatman, but I discovered that while I do enjoy parts of this game, I don't enjoy it enough to level another group of the same classes to 50 again.

 

P.S. I'd rather have to compete for mobs than feel like I'm playing a solo game or invite a friend to quest/fight with me like the old Duke Nukem days.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Erasimus

[Arkerus]

I'm on what is supposedly the second most populous server C. Ordo

I have almost gotten my second toon to level 50 (47 Maurader)

I have gotten to Legacy 16

I also have several other toons ranging from 20 - 35

for the most part this game to me has felt like a single player game, I gave up on Flashpoints because Not only is it not worth it to sit around on fleet all day waiting for a group but the truth is I really dont even need Flashpoints in order to level to 50

As far as heroics go well its the same thing...I can either sit around ona planet for hours and hours waiting for enough people to do a heroic that I need or I can just simply dump it and move on to the next planet since again I really dont need to do the heroics in order to get to 50

and once I get to 50 I get to spend all Day doing dailies to get the mods to put into my orange gear which basically gives me the best gear in game except maybe raid gear.......

 

so im just curious when does the MMO feeling begin? the only place I ever see more than 5 - 10 players in a day of gaming is if I take a break and head over to the fleet

 

I really enjoy this game I think it ranks up there with Oblivion and Skyrim my two other all time offline games, but my free 30 days is coming to an end and I am having a hard time justifying a 15 dollar a month subscription.....anyone care to point me in the right direction?

 

Try using fleet chat and talking to people. I run ops with my guild at least once a week.

[Skidrowbro]

Now I like much about SWTOR and I hope it is successful and they eventually merge servers or design the transfers so that they work. That's why I'm still hanging on even though my son and grandson have given up and moved on.

 

But what makes an MMO and MMO. Well that is somewhat objective but in my opinion there are a few things that are mandatory and a few that are optional.

 

Mandatory:

1. People, lots of people. The server caps should be high enough that you run into people wherever you go. Except for the first couple of weeks that hasn't been true for me and I'm on a server that started out with long queues and lots of people on both the Imperial and Republic fleets. Now we are lucky to have 50-60 during prime on the Republic side and maybe 100-150 on the Imperial side, but usually much less.

 

I still play WoW and on that 8 year old game (which I've played from release) I run into more people in the starting areas than on planets on this 6 month old game. This morning I logged onto my Republic toon to check the AH, there were 3 people on the Republic fleet and 27 people total on the Republic side. Logged into WoW shortly after and there were 45 people in Stormwind alone. Heck there were 15 people in Uldum, probalby picking flowers.

 

2. Encountering People - I have very few encounters while leveling alts in this game. I'm on a PvP server, have leveled 3 characters to 50 and working on my 4th and have had a grand total of 3 spontaenous PvP encounters total while leveling. Heck I can flag, turn myself into a plant, and have more encounters in an hour in the Tol Barad Peninsula when people click on me to "pick" the flower

 

Comments:

Having an LFR/LFD type tools would be nice since I also like meeting new people, especially in PvP. But mostly I shouldn't have to "look" for people to quest with etc. Lots of cooperative games do that. The bustling atmosphere of a crowded city or area, the random encounters with other players, etc. are what differentiate an MMO from just a cooperative game.

 

I do belong to a guild and I can run OPs if I choose. Well I could have before but of the 200+ guild members in my Republic Guild there are lots of days where not enough are on and my 60+ account Imperial guild is usually empty except for me now.

 

I did create some toons on Fatman, but I discovered that while I do enjoy parts of this game, I don't enjoy it enough to level another group of the same classes to 50 again.

 

P.S. I'd rather have to compete for mobs than feel like I'm playing a solo game or invite a friend to quest/fight with me like the old Duke Nukem days.

 

My only suggetion to you is to re-roll on a higher pop server. Wait for server transfers to come out and move your toons. Heck, to all of those complaining about server pop, re-roll. I play on The Swiftsure, which is only standard pop, and I have not had any issues finiding a group. I also don't just play MMO's for the dungeon/FP runs only either.

 

Just like to add that I am also guildless and I still have no issues with groups

Edited May 10, 2012 by Skidrowbro

[Zekim]

I agree, somewhat. It does feel very solo for me. I'm a day player right now. That's probably why server population is so light for me. I am grateful that I could solo (mostly) to 50. I luckily have a guild of folks that I have known since 2004 when we were all playing SWG. that helps me feel connected to some other players. I would like to see a need to socialize beyond raids. But for my situation, solo work isn't killing the game for me and I'm loving the storylines from my BH and newly rolled sniper.

[tloops]

The only time SWTOR felt like an MMO was during the Rakghoul event on Tatooine, so guess we have to wait for the next event to get some MMO feeling again in this game.

 

i agree with this,my server is anything but massive..14 people on fleet during prime time...so sad:(

Edited May 10, 2012 by tloops

[ActionJim]

280 odd on RF on Dalborah in Oceanic.

"LF2M Heals and Tank for any HM "

 

This is why I started rolling Tank and Heals toons when I started having trouble finding groups. DPS is fun, esp for leveling, but fulfilling a more useful role helps a great deal when looking to group in general chat.

[kirorx]

Chat bubbles could help the community immensly.

[Andryah]

It is an MMO, but playing the MMO parts of the game is genuinely optional. So I think you need to look at the MMO community for the source of the issue.

 

Make a game that is solo friendly in the modern MMO community era, and shockingly enough.... a lot of people will play it solo unless they have a guild or RL friends in game with them.

 

Make a game that is not solo friendly in the modern MMO community era, one that actually forces grouplng (where PUGS are pretty much forced on you), and shockingly enough..... a lot of people just plain won't play the game.

 

Community tastes changed after years of WoW. Hence the inter-player dynamics also changed. People mostly want to group and play with like minded folks in a guild, or RL friends who like to play together. They loathe PUGS for all the sociopaths that frequent the PUG environment. Personally, I think living with almost half a generation of MMO players raised by WoW to wear their backsides as hats has turned a lot of people off to some of the more traditional MMO components of a game (ie: grouping for content).

 

Deal with it, or move along to an MMO that forces you to group in order to advance your character(s).

Edited May 10, 2012 by Andryah

[Elkirin]

Speaking purely for myself,

 

"Often the wording of Spam lfg or the click for group mentality stops me joining Groups.

 

I am always happy to join a group when i receive a tell or a person in front of me invites me to join or assist in a task.

 

I am never responding OMG@#$%^& F6AKE JOIn MY HEROIC!!!!...... especially if it is spammed continually.

 

If I receive a random group invite without a preceding tell/say/chat, I will turn 360 degrees, If I can not see you, I press decline."

 

IMHO,

Talk to people in game and you may end up in a lot more social groups.

[gurugeorge]

It is an MMO, but playing the MMO parts of the game is genuinely optional. So I think you need to look at the MMO community for the source of the issue.

 

Make a game that is solo friendly in the modern MMO community era, and shockingly enough.... a lot of people will play it solo unless they have a guild or RL friends in game with them.

 

Make a game that is not solo friendly in the modern MMO community era, one that actually forces grouplng (where PUGS are pretty much forced on you), and shockingly enough..... a lot of people just plain won't play the game.

 

Community tastes changed after years of WoW. Hence the inter-player dynamics also changed. People mostly want to group and play with like minded folks in a guild, or RL friends who like to play together. They loathe PUGS for all the sociopaths that frequent the PUG environment. Personally, I think living with almost half a generation of MMO players raised by WoW to wear their backsides as hats has turned a lot of people off to some of the more traditional MMO components of a game (ie: grouping for content).

 

Deal with it, or move along to an MMO that forces you to group in order to advance your character(s).

 

Well said, the community spirit in modern MMOs is far less than it used to be. OTOH, solo games with other people running around are still preferable to solo games with no other people running around, that quality of "aliveness" makes a huge difference even if you're a soloer.

 

But yeah, if you can't make an effort to group up, using the LFG tool that already exists (i.e. if you think spamming general is all there is to forming groups), then your lack of "MMO-ness" is largely self-imposed.

 

In fact, the only MMO that has ever managed the trick of making PUGging fun, such that casual players could also play socially, was City of Heroes. All other MMOs I've experienced have either been social via forced grouping, therefore too tough for casuals (high stakes, PUGs disliked), or mostly solo, with grouping restricted mostly to guilds (casual friendly, but not very sociable).

[Dezzi]

Well said, the community spirit in modern MMOs is far less than it used to be. OTOH, solo games with other people running around are still preferable to solo games with no other people running around, that quality of "aliveness" makes a huge difference even if you're a soloer.

 

But yeah, if you can't make an effort to group up, using the LFG tool that already exists (i.e. if you think spamming general is all there is to forming groups), then your lack of "MMO-ness" is largely self-imposed.

 

In fact, the only MMO that has ever managed the trick of making PUGging fun, such that casual players could also play socially, was City of Heroes. All other MMOs I've experienced have either been social via forced grouping, therefore too tough for casuals (high stakes, PUGs disliked), or mostly solo, with grouping restricted mostly to guilds (casual friendly, but not very sociable).

 

I'll agree to this. Check out GW2's solution to the problem; it's quite elegant.

[RKLimes]

When they merge servers.

[Jeffor]

No, I assure you, I have.

 

I just don't feel so self-important, so "everything should be about pleasing ME, ALL THE TIME"

 

That I took it upon myself create groups and roll on a server that isn't dead.

 

I credit the 2 months of time away from the game as the reason I'm enjoying it more now than i did before. Re-roll without that "I'm losing all this progress" feeling, on a server with some population stability.

 

I play on The Swiftsure and even when there are plenty of people on line the world still feels empty and sterile.

[JediZenn]

I think the #1 reason why this game doesn't feel as "alive" as it could, it how spread apart everything is within the game.

 

Compare the size of a typical "zone" in WoW to the typical size of a quest hub in SWTOR. Each planet effectively has 4-8 "Zones" on it, many of equal size to a typical WoW zone.

 

Often there are HUGE stretches of just open, empty space in SWTOR, that don't really exist within WoW.

 

It gives some interesting scenery the first time through, but after that, its just like "gotta run through all this...AGAIN..."

 

Basically, you have 1/8th the population running around in a space thats easily 3 times the size...yeah, its gonna feel really empty.

 

Server Merges/Transfers are a start, but really the game needs some basic redesign of its current layout to bring everything closer together. You shouldn't need to spend 20 minutes walking from objective to objective, these should be 5 minutes apart at most.

[Slimshao]

I was told to post here

 

I'm a new player here in SWTOR and I do enjoy the game a tad bit but like I said this is not an MMORPG why? because the game doesn't run like one. BioWare imo should have not tag MMORPG to this game, this is a single player world with a massive co-op, yes Co-op. SWTOR should have went to console systems but I understand why it did not, it is because of competition between the two systems and more work. Anyway SWTOR is a TOR 3 with a massive co-op that many wanted and now we have it but a lot of people do not see it that way so maybe this message would help them understand why it is heavily instance, mid soloable and heavily on companions. NPC interaction is instance while solo because when ever I see another player right next to me at the same NPC and then simply vanish, it is because I'm instance not because he left.

 

SWTOR imo is MCORPG<--- made up.