Ranged DPS: Why would you choose a Mercenary?

[Qonor]

Because I already have a sith inquisitor (assassin is my main) and I wanted a class that had the option to heal.

[Sinsavz]

Only in Natural Cover, which doesn't happen very often. In PvP people use non-ranged abilities too much to rely on natural cover, and in PvE you're ideally not being shot at in the first place

 

If you crouch in place behind natural cover you still get the benefit, but take it from me, the 20% Ranged Defense is a flavor thing more than anything else. Especially more than something concrete like being able to wear Heavy Armor.

 

The ranged cover defense is a billion times better than the gimmick that is heavy armor.

 

Admittedly I don't really notice it when I'm actually playing my sniper, but when I'm on my pyro merc I get tons of cover, cover, cover on my ranged attacks when attacking a sniper, it's a huge pain. One of those things that you don't really notice until you're sitting on the other side of the fence.

[Arzoo]

I don't even count Kolto Overload as anything more than a way to top ourselves off after fights because it's useless when being seriously threatened.

 

Just because it's slow and underwhelming doesn't mean you should be wasting it like that. Pop Kolto Overload as soon as you start taking 1-2k damage. It's basically another 2-3k hp for the fight.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Arzoo

[Phrase]

Just because it's slow and underwhelming doesn't mean you should be wasting it like that. Pop Kolto Overload as soon as you start taking 1-2k damage. It's basically another 2-3k hp for the fight.

 

This. It's esp. useful when you need that last sliver of health to finish someone off. Also, since it's a percentage based HoT, popping your Rakata medpack right before Kolto will give you an even bigger boost near the end of a tough fight.

[Voxx_Voltaare]

Been an arsenal merc since launch. I knew from long before release that this was the class I wanted to play. It was great for leveling PvE. Even for PvP early on when people were still learning their classes and our damage wasn't "fixed/nerfed" I was consistently at the top of the match with highest damage. That has all changed. The class is still good for PvE but a joke in PvP.

 

It took me a really long time to level due to limited playtime and I am slow to change. Even respec'ing to pyro would mean having to relearn how to play. I hoped that the devs would listen to our pleas and do something to help fix the class, but that is fading quickly with each maintenance cycle that makes no mention of Mercs.

 

In PvP, everyone knows that arsenal mercs are a joke class and as soon as they see you fire a TM it is an even bigger sign over your head announcing a quick and easy kill. You are actively hunted and shut down and there is nothing you can do about it. You are constantly CCed, pulled, jumped, interrupted, and are dead in the time it takes to get one TM off. The only time I can make any headway is if I'm against a PUG of noobs who will ignore me.

 

There is something seriously wrong when as a ranged class, you have almost no ability to maintain a ranged position. If melee have effective tools to get within melee range, then a ranged should have more effective tools to keep their distance. Both knock-backs are pretty much a joke in doing this. They are quick and create very little range which is easily overcome. Our two CCs are a joke as well. One is only 4 seconds and the other is broken by any damage. Both are easily broken and do not provide any adequate escape. Concussion missile such a joke. The list goes on and on.

 

I just don't want to admit defeat and that the last 4-5 months of leveling to get to the end game was completely wasted.

[NicWester]

The ranged cover defense is a billion times better than the gimmick that is heavy armor.

 

Admittedly I don't really notice it when I'm actually playing my sniper, but when I'm on my pyro merc I get tons of cover, cover, cover on my ranged attacks when attacking a sniper, it's a huge pain. One of those things that you don't really notice until you're sitting on the other side of the fence.

 

Heavy Armor is waaaaay more than a gimmick. Yeah, sure, you see COVERCOVERCOVER, but you can use Tech attacks OR you can move off to the side (frontal cone only) to completely void cover. But what I see all the time as a Marksman is You Don't Have Line Of Sight, but that happens regardless of what class I'm targeting. What happens when I finally do get a shot off (usually an instant) I see about 20% less damage against a Jugg/BH. It's a significant difference.

 

Granted, if I was Lethality-spec I would be saying "LOLOLOL HEAVY ARMOR IS DUMB!" but then I'd be complaining that my damage versus light armor classes isn't very good.

 

Here's the thing... You have to use different tactics against different classes. It's really as simple as that. Don't use Ranged against someone in cover much the same way I don't use DoTs against light armor. Attacks are items in your toolbox, not one-size fits all strategies.

[sensiblepoast]

You would choose a Merc because you like to cut yourself.

[MrSIlverSurfing]

You would choose a Merc because you like to cut yourself.

 

lol. Issues man serious issues. But, yeah they are crap.

[yoomazir]

I 've been playing this game for like 1 week, having now a lvl 39 Pyro Merc, and I have this feeling that I'm so gimp when it comes to pvp...

Sure, I do have this nice burst of Inciendiary Missile/Rail Shot/Unload/Rail Shot but that pretty much about it, and now that I'm checking the PT skills, I'm totally pissed because they get many more advantages if they go pyro

And Arsenal feels so... ugh, if only we had a faster recharge time in the missiles skills or a slim boost in dmg...

 

So I ask you, the veterans, future of merc = healer?

Edited May 16, 2012 by yoomazir

[clintcasey]

I 've been playing this game for like 1 week, having now a lvl 39 Pyro Merc, and I have this feeling that I'm so gimp when it comes to pvp...

Sure, I do have this nice burst of Inciendiary Missile/Rail Shot/Unload/Rail Shot but that pretty much about it, and now that I'm checking the PT skills, I'm totally pissed because they get many more advantages if they go pyro

And Arsenal feels so... ugh, if only we had a faster recharge time in the missiles skills or a slim boost in dmg...

 

So I ask you, the veterans, future of merc = healer?

 

Your burst gets even stronger once you get Thermal Detonator

 

Thermal Detonator (4 second delay)/Incendiary Missile/Rail Shot/ Thermal Detonator Damage ~ 7000 damage.

 

Keep your rotation going though.

 

Continue alternating Unload, Power Shot, and Rail shot and your damage is killer.

 

The main issue you have presently is the amount of heat your produce. You need to tallent shorter cooldowns on Thermal Sensor Override(TSO) to occasionally give you free incendiary missiles for better heat management.

 

Also when it comes time to picking out your secondary stats its your advantage to stack crit until you end up with a 35% crit rating, and then stack lots of surge and power. That'll give you quicker access to TSO.

 

Another advantage Pyro has over Arsenal is the tallent that gives us shorter TSO cooldowns also gives us shorter cooldowns on Kolto Overload. So instead of being able to use Kolto Overload once every 3 minutes, we can use it about once every minute and a half.

[yoomazir]

Your burst gets even stronger once you get Thermal Detonator

 

Thermal Detonator (4 second delay)/Incendiary Missile/Rail Shot/ Thermal Detonator Damage ~ 7000 damage.

 

Keep your rotation going though.

 

Continue alternating Unload, Power Shot, and Rail shot and your damage is killer.

 

The main issue you have presently is the amount of heat your produce. You need to tallent shorter cooldowns on Thermal Sensor Override(TSO) to occasionally give you free incendiary missiles for better heat management.

 

Also when it comes time to picking out your secondary stats its your advantage to stack crit until you end up with a 35% crit rating, and then stack lots of surge and power. That'll give you quicker access to TSO.

 

Another advantage Pyro has over Arsenal is the tallent that gives us shorter TSO cooldowns also gives us shorter cooldowns on Kolto Overload. So instead of being able to use Kolto Overload once every 3 minutes, we can use it about once every minute and a half.

 

Hey, thx man, that was instructive, still have much to learn of this game.

[Phrase]

Your burst gets even stronger once you get Thermal Detonator

 

Thermal Detonator (4 second delay)/Incendiary Missile/Rail Shot/ Thermal Detonator Damage ~ 7000 damage.

 

Keep your rotation going though.

 

Continue alternating Unload, Power Shot, and Rail shot and your damage is killer.

 

The main issue you have presently is the amount of heat your produce. You need to tallent shorter cooldowns on Thermal Sensor Override(TSO) to occasionally give you free incendiary missiles for better heat management.

 

Also when it comes time to picking out your secondary stats its your advantage to stack crit until you end up with a 35% crit rating, and then stack lots of surge and power. That'll give you quicker access to TSO.

 

Another advantage Pyro has over Arsenal is the tallent that gives us shorter TSO cooldowns also gives us shorter cooldowns on Kolto Overload. So instead of being able to use Kolto Overload once every 3 minutes, we can use it about once every minute and a half.

 

This. Plus don't forget tactical use of PowerSurge>Concussion to set-up the TD>PS>RS>UL>RS combo. You can usually get the first 1/2 off, let UL tick once then hit RS again virtually uninterrupted if you get lucky on the proc, since most pvpers won't waste a cc breaker on a mezz (if they do; Electrodart and continue). Just save this for high priority targets.

 

Also it's worth noting that despite its high heat, Sweeping Blasters is more effective as an aoe interrupt than DFA since 1.2.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Phrase

[yoomazir]

This. Plus don't forget tactical use of PowerSurge>Concussion to set-up the TD>PS>RS>UL>RS combo. You can usually get the first 1/2 off, let UL tick once then hit RS again virtually uninterrupted if you get lucky on the proc, since most pvpers won't waste a cc breaker on a mezz (if they do; Electrodart and continue). Just save this for high priority targets.

 

Also it's worth noting that despite its high heat, Sweeping Blasters is more effective as an aoe interrupt than DFA since 1.2.

 

I know Power Shot can help to cancel the cooldown of Railshot, but I get the impression that it takes too long to fire and deals little damage for the RS chance, and besides, if you get hit I always see the "channeling gauge" moving back, so sometimes it takes double the time of triggering PS.

But maybe I'm wrong, any clarification?

[Gyronamics]

I know Power Shot can help to cancel the cooldown of Railshot, but I get the impression that it takes too long to fire and deals little damage for the RS chance, and besides, if you get hit I always see the "channeling gauge" moving back, so sometimes it takes double the time of triggering PS.

But maybe I'm wrong, any clarification?

 

It all depends.

 

Pyro gets a lot of pushback on Unload and Power Shot because the only way to spec for the anti-pushback in Arsenal branch is to give up 3% crit and tbh... I can live with the pushback.

 

The thing to remember is that you can only proc a rail shot once every 6 seconds.

 

After you've procced it you can cast all you want but you won't get anything and frankly for the cost, you can do something more useful with your heat than try to cast power shots.

 

You fire rail shot, then you proc it with a power shot closely followed by unload combo.

 

Use thermal detonator, maybe stockstrike someone or use rapid shots, then fire the rail shot.

 

6 seconds is up now, if someone's being funny stun or knock them back before casting power shot again.

 

The key is to make good use of your heat when you can't proc a rail shot. Thermal detonator > Power shot.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Gyronamics

[Phrase]

I know Power Shot can help to cancel the cooldown of Railshot, but I get the impression that it takes too long to fire and deals little damage for the RS chance, and besides, if you get hit I always see the "channeling gauge" moving back, so sometimes it takes double the time of triggering PS.

But maybe I'm wrong, any clarification?

 

This is why you stun or mezz before you cast this combo. It's my experience that PS doesn't proc PPA all that often so you can do some really high burst against SELECT targets with that combo. It's not something you want to do all the time, but as I said, in certain, tactical situations that combo with do incredible burst. As for the heat and pushback of PS, I don't have a problem with it. Pretty much the deal with PS is knowing when to use it. It has good damage and is always up, unlike TD.

[T-Assassin]

Your burst gets even stronger once you get Thermal Detonator

 

Thermal Detonator (4 second delay)/Incendiary Missile/Rail Shot/ Thermal Detonator Damage ~ 7000 damage.

 

Keep your rotation going though.

 

Continue alternating Unload, Power Shot, and Rail shot and your damage is killer.

 

The main issue you have presently is the amount of heat your produce. You need to tallent shorter cooldowns on Thermal Sensor Override(TSO) to occasionally give you free incendiary missiles for better heat management.

 

Also when it comes time to picking out your secondary stats its your advantage to stack crit until you end up with a 35% crit rating, and then stack lots of surge and power. That'll give you quicker access to TSO.

 

Another advantage Pyro has over Arsenal is the tallent that gives us shorter TSO cooldowns also gives us shorter cooldowns on Kolto Overload. So instead of being able to use Kolto Overload once every 3 minutes, we can use it about once every minute and a half.

 

good advice there^^.

 

if you want super burst, go biochem and pick up rakata power adren. mixed with relic...that puts you over the top killing those awesome healers.

 

here's a couple tricks i use:

 

i took the pushback reducer from arsenal...i use power shot/unload quite a bit (moreso in HB where i can los/kite/use vents/hide behind hazards) helps to proc RS.

 

i save my tso for escaping w/ CM, using w/ big heal, or when opponent is <30% (u do more damage to opponents <30%...a significant amount) to shoot a fusion missle (TD,RS to finish)

 

kite!! omg kite...once you master kiting, this class is awesome i kited a marauder ~9m yesterday, laughing the whole time (he can't melee or jump to me) my rapid shots >1100. it hits hard enough to use only that (RS and TD when up) while kiting.

 

if my heat is >25%, i try to rapid shot to apply dot b4 wasting heat on IM (like i said, my rapids hits pretty hard)

 

know your opponent...i can kill most tanksins 1v1 (even CD's, even HP) because shroud only effects tech attacks...rapid shot, RS, unload, ps are NOT tech attacks and will hit them.

 

stun sorcs/sages after bubble (u should be able to burst em down quick...then use the instant FM, td, rs = dead squishy)

 

kite tanks/marauders...save stuns/kb to escape.

 

it's the playstyle...

 

when ignored, we can pump out the DEEPS!! even moreso tha snipers, imho (i've never been topped by a sniper). when focused, it can get crazy, but you have so many tools to survive/escape. (heals, cleanse (omg so valuable), mezz)

 

it can be a 4 button pressing machine, or a scrambling mess to escape i'm a run and gun player that uses surroundings and los to use channeled attacks. i top dmg 99% of the time, own the middle in HB and kill all healers.

 

that's why i play, and enjoy, my Merc.

Edited May 17, 2012 by T-Assassin

[Malnard]

Mercenary compared to Sniper:

Merc gets:

- Heavy armor

- A 2nd knockback (have to spec into it, fills resolve bar, doesn't knock them back far)

- 2 second cast mez

- Ability to heal itself

- Armor debuff

Sniper gets:

- Passive immunity to leaps, pulls, and interrupts...doesn't even have to spec into this

- Ability to become immune to CC

- Castable root

- Root on knockback

- Interrupt

 

Comparing a hybrid DPS class to a pure DPS.

 

That's like comparing... Utility and DPS to ummmm, pure DPS.

 

Are you looking to mirror all their abilities and the abilities you have as a merc? You should request lightsabers too, they are much cooler.

 

Comparing apples to oranges gets you no where.

 

Mercenary compared to Sorcerer:

Merc gets:

- Heavy armor

- A 2nd knockback (have to spec into it, fills resolve bar, doesn't knock them back far)

- Armor debuff

Sorc gets:

- Root on knockback (specced)

- Instant cast mez (specced)

- Quick heal with no CD

- Speed boost

- Passive snare tied to commonly used dps ability

- Interrupt

 

This one is a much better comparison. Although, different specs offer different things. (obv)

Things to do when comparing Merc to Sorc:

Compare healing spec to healing spec. See what each role does based on spec. What this role offers in an effective 4 person group (pvp and pve)

Compare damage spec 1 to damage spec 1. See what each role offers to groups and it's overall damage and effectiveness in 4 person groups. (pvp and pve)

Compare damage spec 2 to damage spec 2. See what each role offers to groups and it's overall damage and effectiveness in 4 person groups. (pvp and pve)

 

If you find glaring differences in play-style/overall class balance then I would create a post suggesting your findings after thorough testing.

 

Thus far I haven't looked too much into co-coefficients for the casting of each class but I'm sure I'll do further testing.

 

 

The overall damage of all classes is about the same. So this makes me wonder, why would anyone ever roll a mercenary for ranged dps over the other 2 classes? I think Bioware has severely over-estimated the benefits of Heavy Armor. If the Merc produced more damage than the other two, and heavy armor gave like 45% more damage decrease then it would make sense. At its current state though I'm baffled at this classes design.

 

So from your own assessment, the overall damage of each class is mirrored. So it's clearly a play-style option from there.

 

Are you seriously asking for more damage and more defense for the Merc class? Is there a specific reason? What if you did 20% more damage and decreased 45% damage, as a trade-off had no ability to heal yourself and have no escape mechanics. Are you strictly looking for more damage, more defense more snare resistance, and more mobility? Why would anyone play any other class then...?

 

(My main roll is a sorc at the moment and the forums is littered with people complaining about how their class is not destroying other people.)

[Vid-szhite]

Comparing a hybrid DPS class to a pure DPS.

 

That's like comparing... Utility and DPS to ummmm, pure DPS.

 

Falsehood. The devs have stated many times that everyone is supposed to do exactly the same DPS, regardless of whether you have a spec that heals or a spec that tanks, because having a disadvantage to your primary role just because you have an offspec you can't use while DPSing doesn't make sense.

 

Either way, Snipers have more utility than Mercs. Raid Shield, Armor Debuff on all specs, Interrupt... the only thing they don't have over a merc are crap heals that will overheat them in a single use and a battle rez. I suppose Mercs do have a lot of built-in armor penetration with Hi Velocity Cylinder, though.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[Malnard]

So from your own assessment, the overall damage of each class is mirrored. So it's clearly a play-style option from there.

 

What was the question?

[T-Assassin]

Falsehood. The devs have stated many times that everyone is supposed to do exactly the same DPS, regardless of whether you have a spec that heals or a spec that tanks, because having a disadvantage to your primary role just because you have an offspec you can't use while DPSing doesn't make sense.

 

Either way, Snipers have more utility than Mercs. Raid Shield, Armor Debuff on all specs, Interrupt... the only thing they don't have over a merc are crap heals that will overheat them in a single use and a battle rez. I suppose Mercs do have a lot of built-in armor penetration with Hi Velocity Cylinder, though.

 

^^^ *except the devs stated +/- 5% in the DPS area.

 

and...the difference that the devs matrix does not show is viability of this utility...and THAT is why sniper > merc in PvP utility. (but not by much...that cleanse...GD...i tell ya...it sux to not be able to cleanse dots/snares)

 

also, the other trade off is mobility vs sniper cover... i know as a VR50+ sniper i can be pretty mobile in PvP as marksman, really about as mobile as a PT/Merc that uses unload/PS a bunch, or even more mobile than a ARS/Merc.

 

the difference, for my playstyle, IS the minor heals, the cleanse, and high damaging "auto-attack", rapid shots.

 

i run, i survive. i am damn near impossible to keep up with. my k/d ratio (PT/Merc) would probably be in the high 40's (at least), and i'm top damage 99%...

 

on my sniper, i play a very similar playstyle. the difference is the "burstier" damage of the sniper (while in cover) and their "survivability" (while in cover). if i am forced to run and i get chased from a bad situation, i will survive 50x on my PT/Merc..

 

if i can sit and free shoot, i'd say they are really, really close in DPS. +/- 100. (my parsing and dps #'s from MM/Snipe and PT/Merc..both in very similar armor) i think that is because of my very good knowledge, rotation, choosing the right opponent, and heat management on my PT/Merc.

 

that's why i stopped playin my sniper and started playing my merc. that and... i que up solo more often and the lack of healers in WZ's (on my server) requires me to have a more "survivable" playstyle.

 

*EDIT* and staying alive = more damage, longer defense of objectives, better 1v1.

Edited May 17, 2012 by T-Assassin

[fujeo-finel]

^^^ *except the devs stated +/- 5% in the DPS area.

 

and...the difference that the devs matrix does not show is viability of this utility...and THAT is why sniper > merc in PvP utility. (but not by much...that cleanse...GD...i tell ya...it sux to not be able to cleanse dots/snares)

 

also, the other trade off is mobility vs sniper cover... i know as a VR50+ sniper i can be pretty mobile in PvP as marksman, really about as mobile as a PT/Merc that uses unload/PS a bunch, or even more mobile than a ARS/Merc.

 

the difference, for my playstyle, IS the minor heals, the cleanse, and high damaging "auto-attack", rapid shots.

 

i run, i survive. i am damn near impossible to keep up with. my k/d ratio (PT/Merc) would probably be in the high 40's (at least), and i'm top damage 99%...

 

on my sniper, i play a very similar playstyle. the difference is the "burstier" damage of the sniper (while in cover) and their "survivability" (while in cover). if i am forced to run and i get chased from a bad situation, i will survive 50x on my PT/Merc..

 

if i can sit and free shoot, i'd say they are really, really close in DPS. +/- 100. (my parsing and dps #'s from MM/Snipe and PT/Merc..both in very similar armor) i think that is because of my very good knowledge, rotation, choosing the right opponent, and heat management on my PT/Merc.

 

that's why i stopped playin my sniper and started playing my merc. that and... i que up solo more often and the lack of healers in WZ's (on my server) requires me to have a more "survivable" playstyle.

 

*EDIT* and staying alive = more damage, longer defense of objectives, better 1v1.

 

You played a Frost Mage in WoW didn't you?

[T-Assassin]

You played a Frost Mage in WoW didn't you?

 

played WoW for about 3 months...

 

DK and hunter...

 

NEVER played a mage.