Respeccing to Vengeance - Need some opinions

[froops]

I've levelled as an Immortal Jugg all the way up to 42 and was thinking of respeccing to either Vengeance or Rage for a bit of a change. I've leaned towards Vengeance due to the fact that I'll probably have a little more survivability with the Deafening Defense talent (deep down I'm a born tank) however I'm not sure where I should spread my points within the Vengeance tree.

 

I'm thinking of a 2/32/7 spec

 

As I don't have much experience with different specs other than Immortal thus far, my main concern is of rage generation. I'm not sure whether it's worth getting deadly reprisal and/or unyielding vs putting points in accuracy and/or pooled hatred.

 

I predominantly PvE (solo and tanking flashpoints) and therefore would like my build focused on that however I do like to go into a warzone every now and then.

 

I guess my main questions are:

 

1. Do I need Unyielding and/or Deadly Reprisal for the additional rage generation?

 

2. Is it worth getting them over Pooled Hatred and/or Accuracy?

 

3. How would you split those 5 points? (Keeping in mind that at least 3 points needs to be within either Unyielding and/or Accuracy)

 

I appreciate all the feedback I can get.

[LiquidKarbide]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZcRrRruddGRZM.1

Is what i run in PvE. But to be honest, I dont really notice Pooled Hatred proccing too much. Id probably switch those 2 points over to Accuracy and remod to drop some accuracy.

But i usually PvP so i just run whatever spec i PvP in at that time lol. However I was running that spec earlier today and was on par with a full rakata + Black Hole + Full augmented marauder. And I was running a columi helmet and mostly War hero gear. (Not that he was bad because he usually tops dps in my group and we 1shot EC)

Edited May 9, 2012 by LiquidKarbide

[Quor]

I've levelled as an Immortal Jugg all the way up to 42 and was thinking of respeccing to either Vengeance or Rage for a bit of a change. I've leaned towards Vengeance due to the fact that I'll probably have a little more survivability with the Deafening Defense talent (deep down I'm a born tank) however I'm not sure where I should spread my points within the Vengeance tree.

 

I'm thinking of a 2/32/7 spec

 

As I don't have much experience with different specs other than Immortal thus far, my main concern is of rage generation. I'm not sure whether it's worth getting deadly reprisal and/or unyielding vs putting points in accuracy and/or pooled hatred.

 

I predominantly PvE (solo and tanking flashpoints) and therefore would like my build focused on that however I do like to go into a warzone every now and then.

 

I guess my main questions are:

 

1. Do I need Unyielding and/or Deadly Reprisal for the additional rage generation?

 

2. Is it worth getting them over Pooled Hatred and/or Accuracy?

 

3. How would you split those 5 points? (Keeping in mind that at least 3 points needs to be within either Unyielding and/or Accuracy)

 

I appreciate all the feedback I can get.

 

Not a terrible build, but you have too many points in Rage, and not enough in Immortal.

 

I'd use something like this:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZcGrRMhddGkZMM.1

 

The extra crit on Force abilities doesn't do much for Vengeance, because you only use two Force abilities consistenly; Scream and Shatter. Smash, even talented with Decimate, is barely stronger than a normal Assault, and builds less rage even in Shien form. Smash is still great for aoe of course, but for single target you're better off sticking with Assault.

 

A free Scream after a Charge is great rage efficiency though, and since you can work Charge into a lot of Ops boss fights (for a variety of reasons) then you'll see more usage out of Battle Cry than you would think.

 

Now, if you're adamant about incorporating Smash into your rotation, you could opt to take Quake in lieu of Battle Cry and just find a spare point in Vengy to drop, and that can be nice if you don't have the debuff already in your group, so use your judgement there.

[Vid-szhite]

Quor... same name from FFXI and WoW boards? Still giving Warriors advice even after all these years, I see.

 

I'll second what Quor said - anything outside of Ravager from Rage is probably fluff for Vengeance (get Ravager, though), but we need at the very least to have Enraged Sunder, and personally, I would take War Cry. My best parses come from when I use Force Charge constantly to refresh the buff (takes practice to not lose GCDs from that, but can be done), and it seems as though my PvP gear is helping with that because of the 4pc set bonus.

 

I run a crazy 4/35/2 spec, so I'm deep Vengeance. I may not recommend that for you, but that's what I use.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[froops]

Thanks for the help guys. I respec'd last night and tried it out when leveling as well as in some warzones.

 

First thoughts are that I definitely do a ton more damage than when I was immortal spec however I still need a lot of getting used to this new play style in PvP. Soloing seems much easier and I'm back to using Quinn instead of Jaessa. Solo'd some 2+ heroics without even breaking a sweat and solo'd a champion without even needing to really use CDs.

 

As for the skills that I use, I see now that even though Smash is free I hardly get the chance to use it except in PvP to rack up tags on enemy players or if I'm really low on rage and the enemy's about to die. I find that I'm just cycling through Impale, Force Scream, Sundering Assault, Shatter and Ravage with the occasional Assault to help build up rage. I have no time to really use any other talent because by the time I'm through with my rotation, they're either off CD or I'm trying to build rage in between so that I can keep spamming.

[Vid-szhite]

Thanks for the help guys. I respec'd last night and tried it out when leveling as well as in some warzones.

 

First thoughts are that I definitely do a ton more damage than when I was immortal spec however I still need a lot of getting used to this new play style in PvP. Soloing seems much easier and I'm back to using Quinn instead of Jaessa. Solo'd some 2+ heroics without even breaking a sweat and solo'd a champion without even needing to really use CDs.

 

As for the skills that I use, I see now that even though Smash is free I hardly get the chance to use it except in PvP to rack up tags on enemy players or if I'm really low on rage and the enemy's about to die. I find that I'm just cycling through Impale, Force Scream, Sundering Assault, Shatter and Ravage with the occasional Assault to help build up rage. I have no time to really use any other talent because by the time I'm through with my rotation, they're either off CD or I'm trying to build rage in between so that I can keep spamming.

 

You've definitely gotten the hang of it, then.

[Teuskou]

You may want to use Smash more though because as a veangeance Jugg, especialy with the 4 pieces PVE bonus, you can get rid of assault completely. I know I do. Smash, Saber Throw and Ravage can fill the gap it used to fill :

 

- Sundering Assault every 3 GCD. Don't ever miss one, unless you already got 11-12 rage.

- Shatter, Impale, and Force Scream every 6 GCD.

- One of Smash, Saber throw or Ravage should be available to fill the gap in this 3/6/6 rotation, especially if you Ravage everytime it's available.

 

Using this "rotation", you will even see times when you have more rage than you need (especially when you take AOE damage). Then you can just switch to Sundering Assault, Shatter, Impale, Force Scream, Sundering Assault, Ravage.

 

If you do that, you'll probably want to revert to your original build : lower Smash cooldown and increased damage will definitely make it worth using Smash instead of assault, and Malice will increase its crit rate. Note that bleed effects are force hits too, so there's definitely more than 2 spells that benefit from Malice : Force Scream, Shatter, Smash, and the bleed effects from Impale, Force Scream, and Shatter.

 

Finally, note that Smash is not only free, it actually builds 1 rage : it is still considered a "rage costing ability", and will "refund" you 1 rage when you use it in Shien Form.

 

My build is http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1010MZcGMRMuddhRZGM.1

 

It has 1 free point, I currently put it in Deafening Defense for some extra survivability.

 

Stats wise, you want to aim for 40% buffed force crit chance (so that Force Scream has 100% crit chances), 100% accuracy, 70 to 75% Surge, and the rest as Power. Since there's so much accuracy on PVE Gear, you'll want to replace some accuracy/power and accuracy/crit enhancements to power/surge crit/surge ones.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Teuskou

[Xtrema]

You may want to use Smash more though because as a veangeance Jugg, especialy with the 4 pieces PVE bonus, you can get rid of assault completely. I know I do. Smash, Saber Throw and Ravage can fill the gap it used to fill :

 

- Sundering Assault every 3 GCD. Don't ever miss one, unless you already got 11-12 rage.

- Shatter, Impale, and Force Scream every 6 GCD.

- One of Smash, Saber throw or Ravage should be available to fill the gap in this 3/6/6 rotation, especially if you Ravage everytime it's available.

 

Using this "rotation", you will even see times when you have more rage than you need (especially when you take AOE damage). Then you can just switch to Sundering Assault, Shatter, Impale, Force Scream, Sundering Assault, Ravage.

 

If you do that, you'll probably want to revert to your original build : lower Smash cooldown and increased damage will definitely make it worth using Smash instead of assault, and Malice will increase its crit rate. Note that bleed effects are force hits too, so there's definitely more than 2 spells that benefit from Malice : Force Scream, Shatter, Smash, and the bleed effects from Impale, Force Scream, and Shatter.

 

Finally, note that Smash is not only free, it actually builds 1 rage : it is still considered a "rage costing ability", and will "refund" you 1 rage when you use it in Shien Form.

 

My build is http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1010MZcGMRMuddhRZGM.1

 

It has 1 free point, I currently put it in Deafening Defense for some extra survivability.

 

Stats wise, you want to aim for 40% buffed force crit chance (so that Force Scream has 100% crit chances), 100% accuracy, 70 to 75% Surge, and the rest as Power. Since there's so much accuracy on PVE Gear, you'll want to replace some accuracy/power and accuracy/crit enhancements to power/surge crit/surge ones.

 

thanks for the tip, didn't think that the free smash generates rage for us, I'll need to work it into my rotation more just for that.

 

Would anyone prefer the free CS over free smash though? I recently respec'd to veng and I find a CS here and there can really help with being kited at times.

[lijahrobinson]

If you decide to do more PVP i would suggest this.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZsMrRrhddGkZMM.1

 

Pooled Hatred is great in PvP and has allowed me 5k+ impales and 6k vicious throws (with adrenal/relic). I find that you have enough accuracy with your gear to get it right at 100% so i would rather have power/cirt/surge instead.