New PvP Daily is Hurting PvP...Some people literally aren't trying now

[Kerraii]

pvp in this game has already been ruined enough.i dont see how it could possibly get any worse

 

It can't get worse. But it could get a lot better, if they had a clue.

 

Remember Vanguard? That game had everything going for it. Yet fell flat on it's face because of a dictator wanting his way and the bankers wanting another.

Not saying this is what we have here but when the banker says one thing and the devs say another, neither happens to have a clue as to what to do next.

 

The game needs a major change. Especially in PvP. Novarie Coast is a prime example of a good idea gone bad.

 

I would venture to guess the next WZ could even be worse in that what is needed is not small groups in a WZ but a 16 vs 16 or even a 24 vs 24 WZ. But it is too late for them to create this as there will not be the player base to support the idea.

 

If I were involved I would take Ilum and force pvp there. Remove it from the PvE part of the game or in my opinion create a WZ revolving around the entire planet as it is now.

The planet is open world pvp designed for level 50s. Meaning there is no reason for anyone lower to be there other then to farm crafting mats. It can be removed from the main part of the game and turned into a entirely separate section of the game. Think Alterac Valley only on a much bigger scale.

Remove the old pvp section from the design and create a WZ where when an opposing faction captures an opposing forces outpost it opens up a PvE instance that the capturing faction can play. This was the basic premise of Aion and their fortress controlling system.

The faction that controls BOTH main outposts has access to the instance. To regain control the losing faction will have to retake their outpost and conqur the opposing factions outpost to open up access.

Throughout the zone we know there are outposts and third faction outposts/camps. These could also be captured for buffs with the npc factions fighting to regain control of their territory.

 

This is just a rough idea that could easily, I say easily, be revamped to be viable for something the pvp community might actually enjoy. Taking the main outpost would be a challenge and would take many players to do so.

The game may not be able to do this but maybe.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Kerraii

[Itukaaj]

More people are que'ing. More people to fight. More fun for me.

 

 

Call me selfish, but I'm going to get mine no matter what. All I do is pvp and this change has caused people to que that I have literally never seen before.

 

They are asking questions, learning about the objectives, and dare I say enjoying pvp.

 

This. Once again op stop trying to kill PVP with your selfishness. The above poster showed you what's really going down.

[ItchyThePenguin]

Interesting. According to the Server list, Mind Trick is a PvE Server. I therefore change my assessment of what the OP said completely. It is likely true that the carebears on that PvE server do indeed play like garbage in PvP; quit, AFK, dance around, keyboard turn, click skills, and roleplay during WZs. It's a PvE server. I would expect nothing less than the worst possible behavior and gameplay when these players PvP.

 

Well, I won't lie to you, we do have a few of those kinds of people. But, for the most part, particularly in the 50s Bracket, those people are non existent on our server. Most people, at least on the Republic side of things (I can't really speak for the Empire side), play until the end of every game. Win or lose (Most of the time it's a loss haha). I just think it's kind of funny that the OP said that the best kind of matches were the close ones (which, I agree with, by the way) while she rolls around with an uber good premade stomping on just about everyone! (Nah, I'm just teasin')

 

I played several matches against her premade last night and we got stomped on pretty hard, but there were virtually no quitters. No more than what I usually see, at least.

[PloGreen]

The problem isn't dailies its that PvP is gear based. As long as people can progress they will find the path of least resistance. We need ranked warzones where there are cool rewards like gametime, titles, or other prestige items instead of a set of gear that makes you "better" for being more "skilled".

 

Please dont say "we" - like it is general consensus. I dont agree with you for one. I want gear progression in pvp, I enjoy it and so do many other pvpers. The path of least resistance is to win, the best way to win is to team with 3 like-minded souls and perservere. Thats all there is to it really.

 

This myth that take away gear and people will be equally skilled also needs to stop. I guarantee you most people that dedicate themselves to pvp and progress through the gear rankings quickly are generally very good players. It's not just the fact they "spend more time" to get the gear, its how they use their time in the game. It should be common sense to anyone, if you dont have much in the way of gear - your not really spending much time pvping, That's not to say people who dont have much time will not be able to grasp basic mmo mechanics which are very similar to wow, but the reailty is skillled and experience pvpers will still obtain that gear very very quickly because they love to PVP!

 

The idea that some solo queuing qqer (and im not saying you fit in that camp) can just lose his way to war hero gear and one day be on an equal footing with the best geared and skilled players is a false one. People found that out the hard way when they thought 1.2 would be their salvation, and promptly got *** pwned by premade after premade. The only true way to compete is to do what the premades that beat the crap out of peopel are doing - form one of your own, and learn to play.

 

If people dont try to win, and they are happy to lose their way to war hero gear it will take them a long time so its not really a problem, the only problem is if they are on your team but i know the players on my server, simple solution is if you know they are bad players, or afking useless -headless-chicken-fotm rerollers then you dont have to be there either. Just quit the warzone.

[Kerraii]

The only PvP that works is when the winner actually accomplishes something. Like opening up a new instance for the winner.

There has to be some pride when winning something and some reward that means something to the player to have to come back and do over and over.

[Astarica]

For those who say the daily now inspires people to lose 6 games as fast as possible, if you are smart enough to realize this then you probably didn't need to work on losing 6 as fast as possible. Losing games as fast as possible (while getting 8 medals) has always been the second best way for gear progression (below winning as fast as possible). If I only care about getting commendations at the fastest possible rate, I'd get my 8 medals and then do stuff like force pull the enemy ball carrier into our goal. However, if everyone on my team does this, they'd end up accidentally having to contribute to objectives and then our team wouldn't need to try to lose on purpose because we might actually win now that we're working toward objectives to get out medals.

 

Take Novare Coast, if you AFK by a node you end up with 3 medals in a standard 100-0 blowout, which isn't bad but sure isn't great either. If you want your 8 medals quick, you should go on bold attacks to try to cap/kill something for 8 medals, and then hope your guys defending lose all the turrets while you attack. Yet, if everyone on your team did this, you'd probably succeed in capping some nodes since the map awards aggression/mobility, so you'd just go for the win at this point.

 

If everyone is trying to lose quickly, you'd actually have a pretty formidable team, because to lose quickly requires a very aggressive assault plan.

[Iamsamsara]

Quote: Originally Posted by DarthOvertone

 

Interesting. According to the Server list, Mind Trick is a PvE Server. I therefore change my assessment of what the OP said completely. It is likely true that the carebears on that PvE server do indeed play like garbage in PvP; quit, AFK, dance around, keyboard turn, click skills, and roleplay during WZs. It's a PvE server. I would expect nothing less than the worst possible behavior and gameplay when these players PvP

 

 

Can you tell me what the difference between a pvp and pve server is in this game? There isn't one because factions are kept so seperate in the differenty planets, you cannot attack the home planet or Fleet of either faction, and open world pvp just plain doesn't happen. I rolled PvE server to play with some friends, and when they never showed decided to check out pvp servers to reroll on, after checking them out I found absolutely no incentive to do so, as there isn't any open world pvp in this game. Denying someone credibility based on the fact they play a PvE server is rediculous in SWToR.

[Blloodbane]

I pvp quite a bit on a heavily populated server, and while some quit and go for defender medals (futility is a life lesson), I am not seeing all these afk'ers in the matches. Does it happen occasionally, sure, but the drawback even if you lose is not even that dire, especially if you can participate and medal up.

[Astarica]

I pvp quite a bit on a heavily populated server, and while some quit and go for defender medals (futility is a life lesson), I am not seeing all these afk'ers in the matches. Does it happen occasionally, sure, but the drawback even if you lose is not even that dire, especially if you can participate and medal up.

 

People keep on talk about this AFK thing but honestly people don't do this because if you die, you don't get any Defender medals, and outside of Alderran you cannot count on never being attacked at any spot where you can pick up Defender medals.

 

I see on Novare Coast all the time of guys who try to take it easy by our node and they're the first person to call out for help because they are quite aware that they're likely to die and if they must stay alive to continue AFKing, so they've a huge incentive to inform the rest of the team of enemy's attack.

[DarthOvertone]

Can you tell me what the difference between a pvp and pve server is in this game?

 

Player psychology, goals, and playstyle. Completely different, like night and day really. It has nothing to do with the content itself. PvPers play to PvP. Carebears play to, well...whatever.

 

Denying someone credibility based on the fact they play a PvE server is rediculous in SWToR.

 

Not at all based on my answer to your first question.

 

And I only responded to you because you actually spent some time playing on a PvP Server, so your opinion regarding PvP was actually worth considering.

[Shadenuat]

It's great, can finish my daily, would still pvp even when finished for comms, and I see some new recruits shown up. The latter is a mixed bag, but hope some of them farm enough to be competetive and we'll play with new faces.

Good move from Bioware, can't see any downsides. People AFKing don't even deserve a mention - why farm pvp stuff, if you don't enjoy fighting till the last in pvp? Makes no sense. Hope those die out as a type, I did't see a lot though.

[PloGreen]

Player psychology, goals, and playstyle. Completely different, like night and day really. It has nothing to do with the content itself. PvPers play to PvP. Carebears play to, well...whatever.

 

 

 

Not at all based on my answer to your first question.

 

And I only responded to you because you actually spent some time playing on a PvP Server, so your opinion regarding PvP was actually worth considering.

 

You think pvpers only play on pvp servers?

 

Cant wait for cross server if this is the case.

[DarthOvertone]

You think pvpers only play on pvp servers?

 

Cant wait for cross server if this is the case.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and answer "yes" to your question. I think it's safe to assume that the majority of real PvPers do in fact roll on PvP Servers.

 

Cross-Server WZ Queues will be a blessing in exposing the carebears that PvP for the frauds they are. So I agree with you on that point as well. Bring it.

Edited May 9, 2012 by DarthOvertone

[ZeketheReaper]

my favorite part about this thread is that this isn't a new subject at all and people have been complaining since beta that they need to make losing worth the time they put into the match but then people like you complain that winning and losing doesn't matter now and trying hard will actually reward you instead of being the only one trying hard on your team and getting nearly nothing if your team loses like its a bad thing that now people are more likely to FINISH a warzone...

[looneybinjim]

the whole basis of the OP's point is completely redundant.

 

the game rewards effort put into each warzone, you still need to work to get your medals and the best way to do this is trying to win. only now if you lose, you know that your still going to get a count towards your daily so you keep playing, less people are leaving games, and the whole environment is more upbeat.

 

you get more wz comms from a win then you do from a loss, if you have 8 medals as opposed to less than 8. winners get those games counted towards the weekly quest, winners still get rewarded more than losers. the people who dont like putting effort into the games, the afker's etc are the same ones who displayed the same charateristics before this patch. bioware can do nothing to change human nature.

 

this is a good step in the right direction. well done bioware.

[Iamsamsara]

This is actually the first MMO in which I have not played on a PvP server, but I find the PvPers on my server to be quite skilled, and far more respectful and respectable than most of the players on any PvP server in any game I have played. Maybe it's just my server and I got lucky.

[ItchyThePenguin]

I'm going to go out on a limb and answer "yes" to your question. I think it's safe to assume that the majority of real PvPers do in fact roll on PvP Servers.

 

Cross-Server WZ Queues will be a blessing in exposing the carebears that PvP for the frauds they are. So I agree with you on that point as well. Bring it.

 

Whoa, buddy. I play on a PvE server, but I love me some good and challenging PvP. I'll admit the players are typically different when you compare a PvE and a PvP server, but don't assume that all PvE people aren't into hardcore PvP. I just like to keep my PvE and PvP separate -- that's the only reason I rolled on a PvE server. I'm looking forward to Cross Server Warzones!

[AngryBuddhist]

Not seeing any of this on my PvP server but it is only a few days into the change.

 

What I did see was faster ques and more PvP matches on my dead server than usual.

 

Until of course the core 30 or 40 people left on the Republic side finished their 6 game daily. Then the fleet population dropped to under 10 people, at 9:00 pm pacific time.

 

So not yet the horrible BOT fest that can happen when you switch rewards to a 'show up and get it' model, however the change is simply a very short term mask for the overriding problem of empty servers.

[looneybinjim]

I'm going to go out on a limb and answer "yes" to your question. I think it's safe to assume that the majority of real PvPers do in fact roll on PvP Servers.

 

Cross-Server WZ Queues will be a blessing in exposing the carebears that PvP for the frauds they are. So I agree with you on that point as well. Bring it.

 

lol i bet your not as half as good as you like to think you are.

 

i play on both pvp and pve servers. and in this game world pvp does not exist, so people on pvp servers playing in warzones are likely no better then those on pve servers. the ones you call frauds and carebears. it takes all sorts, and everyone has thier own play style.

 

ill say it again, people who play pvp via warzones from pvp servers can be (and many are) just as good as those who play on pvp servers

[cycao]

Well after a night full of warzones this was what I saw.

 

-People were still fighting off the nodes

-Not calling out incs, and if they did not until they are dead

-People were not running ahead of the carrier in huttball

-not passing the ball

-People still running off to rambo a node guarded by 3 players

 

Now im not sure if this was a direct result of the patch or not but this seemed like business as usual when I was solo queuing and ended up on a pug. I did notice though out of all the matches I played I think only had one game where a player quit about halfway threw. Had some pretty intense games though, when our premade got together towards the end of the night had an epic comeback in NC down something like 14-60 came back and won so that was nice.

 

I guess im lucky that this patch did not ruin anything for me.

[Augustine]

I disagree, and I am not a huge fan of this game now since my entire guild quit but I will say PVP ques were popping last night even faster <2-3 min, on Ajunta Pall (a particularly balanced server generally) last night, there were a lot of new 50's seemingly out of no where, and the people playing were genuinely trying to win. Hell I might even log into my level 50 Sage again....

 

That said, the best idea I've seen completely displaces this mechanic of win/loss rewards, and that is: Make comm rewards based strictly on medals won. I think doing this scaled for an ROI metric around objective based play would go farther than the simple Win/Loss + Medal Farming mechanic in place...

[Nightthunder]

You can blame BW for awarding losses all you want, but in reality the people you are describing are a minority. That type of player will ruin your day regardless of earning a reward or not, as they are getting enjoyment from causing you to post here.

 

The change is good. Aholes will be Aholes.

 

You are my hero, finally someone said it...

STOP CRYING EVERY FREAKING TIME they change something!

 

The pvp is very fun in this game, and yes i played wow and i like this game way better.

[DarthKhaos]

Here here! PVP is RUINED with this new system, all I have to do is log on, que up, give my best to earn as many medals as possible, and get rewarded EVERY MATCH. I don't have to worry about if my other team members have crap gear or don't know how to play any more, I don't need to worry if I'm vs. a pre-made, I don't even have to worry about if I win. ALL I care about now is trying to have a good time while doing productive things to earn medals.

 

I used to love it when my friends would que up with me, get face rolled, and rage quit for the night because they knew they would be facing the same pre-made team over and over again with no hope of a win. WHAT ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO DO NOW?? Stay online for 6 matches without streesing it because, hey, they are going to get the reward regardless? Focus on HAVING FUN?

 

BS. Total and complete BS.

I think I just peed myself.

[Heideggar]

I thought they were going to make the daily require 9 matches to win. Losses = 1, wins = 3. The idea being you still make progress toward your goal, but there's still noticeable incentive to put in effort. For those who win, this doesn't change a thing, it just motivates the bads to do better if they don't want to spend all day at PvP.

[TheronFett]

It's really no wonder why a lot of players despise PvPers. This has to be the biggest bunch of whiners I've ever come across. I'd bet my paycheck that the folks at BioWare responsible for wading through this river of tears on a daily basis come up with a top 20 best QQ posts of the day and it gets emailed around the office for good laughs all around.

 

Grab a hanky, cinch up your big boy pants and just play the game. So much drama over 99 comms.

Edited May 9, 2012 by TheronFett