Zintair Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 A pyro can't possibly have storm. you would have to be 21/3/31 Oh true that like I said I'm not super knowledgeable about all the Vanguard specs. Maybe it's just the Expertise buff. But do you guys really feel they are balanced at the moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajPl Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Are you referring to the class as a whole or Rail Shot? Because a 10M range class that can rock people still from 30M range and be outta the "Melee mosh pit" sounds like smart playstyle to me. Yes we can rock people from 30 meters, I have killed hundreds of badds with my pew pew pew full auto that hits for 800 per tick (3ticks) (less on tanks) and high impact bolt if you use it from 30 meters you youse it once per 15 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 But do you guys really feel they are balanced at the moment? Compared to what? Have to have something to balance against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zintair Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Compared to what? Have to have something to balance against. Other Tank/DPS DoT classes Balance Shadow for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DweezillKagemand Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) you will find the ones that are suffering right now are commando and mercs. sith warriors and jedi knights are good imperial agents and smuggler are good power techs and vanguards are good inquisitors and chanselors are good and that leaves mainly commando's and mercs which are pretty much useless in pvp.ive noticed the most that are complaining about things being OP are players that are undergeared or commando and mercs. so i came to the conclusion that bioware just need to buff commando and mercs. So I came to the conclusion that you have an IQ of a toaster. Edited May 9, 2012 by DweezillKagemand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spek Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 There burst dmg is ridiculous right now I'm running about 19k hp over 1300 expertise (1341 iirc) and 7 parts war hero, I get killed so fast by a half decent PT way, way too fast. There's literally nothing I can do to counter it. I find myself keeping clear of Powertechs (along with Marauders) in wz's or at least keep them at range as best I can but ofc i get grappled as soon as I'm spotted and carbonised then zap flash bang dead. As a merc it narks me that PT's use a set bonus that was intended for my advanced class. I've played since early beta and chose Merc exclusively because I was under the assumption that it was the primary dps adv class for BH. Boy was I wrong. I would love it if every class had at least a fighting chance to best another in a 1v1 situation. For the time being I'll continue to skirt around PT and Marauders as best I can and hope for some kind of future change. If no change comes I'll look for a more balanced pvp experience elsewhere. Jesse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwnshoppe Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Oh true that like I said I'm not super knowledgeable about all the Vanguard specs. Maybe it's just the Expertise buff. But do you guys really feel they are balanced at the moment? Honestly I know we are the highest burst, but I honestly feel like I'm paper thin. Out of 4 of the AC's I have played competitively, when I use Assault (Pyro), it's the squishiest. People say well you have heavy armor! Thing is to get the burst, you can't use the tanking stance, which means its about 20% damage reduction against white damage (the rarest in the game). Combined with the fact that I have to run around in melee range, this usually leads to me dying in under 6 seconds from other melee with better damage reduction cooldowns. I can't count the number of times I have been killed in < 4 globals on my WH specced pyro. It can be fun to kill someone in 6 GCDs if you are lucky as a pyro, but it doesn't feel fun to be insta-gibbed either, especially with all the shadow/marauder FOTM rerolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twor Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Oh true that like I said I'm not super knowledgeable about all the Vanguard specs. Maybe it's just the Expertise buff. But do you guys really feel they are balanced at the moment? Yup. If I choose to play Assault I deal a lot of damage- once the opponent realizes that I am dead. I have one def CD and the heavy armor is not helping very much. That is why I usually run IF. I do less damage but have more utility with storm, a short time interrupt, an additional snare on my harpoon and guard. So you see it is balanced, no matter how you feel it- you can either have average damage and decent utility or one heck of a burst while wearing thin sheets- but that is all you bring to the table. *edit* And good players counter a Pyro very easily. Cleanse the dots. He will lose the ammo/heat battle compared to your health. Edited May 9, 2012 by Twor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lijahrobinson Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 There burst dmg is ridiculous right now I'm running about 19k hp over 1300 expertise (1341 iirc) and 7 parts war hero, I get killed so fast by a half decent PT way, way too fast. There's literally nothing I can do to counter it. I find myself keeping clear of Powertechs (along with Marauders) in wz's or at least keep them at range as best I can but ofc i get grappled as soon as I'm spotted and carbonised then zap flash bang dead. As a merc it narks me that PT's use a set bonus that was intended for my advanced class. I've played since early beta and chose Merc exclusively because I was under the assumption that it was the primary dps adv class for BH. Boy was I wrong. I would love it if every class had at least a fighting chance to best another in a 1v1 situation. For the time being I'll continue to skirt around PT and Marauders as best I can and hope for some kind of future change. If no change comes I'll look for a more balanced pvp experience elsewhere. Jesse I don't have that much of a problem with the pyro PTs on my Mercenary. I am also Pyro spec'ed. The real trick is not to be their primary target. If we start off and they begin focusing on me then its going to be a world of hurt but i usually hang back and start in on them when they have chosen their target. Blindly rushing them is a good way to die but if i can get my rotation started on them before they do on me then it usually ends up in my favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sowwy Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 If you are at anything other than 10m you are doing it wrong and reduce your DPS by about 70-80%. I disagree. One reason PTs are so effective is their flexibility. Sometimes fighting in, or close to, the pocket is a bad idea. PTs are optimal at 4m, strong at 10, and effective enough at 30m to disrupt a primary target, unless its a tank. So I'd counter than PTs that don't profit from the tactical flexibility, are the ones doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Other Tank/DPS DoT classes Balance Shadow for example. Shadows have better survivability than PTs do in any spec (In regards to cooldowns). DPS Shadows, in a 1v1 actually are a bit better if they use Force Shroud offensively. In a group drawn out setting though a DPS PT will shine by having a bit more base mitigation and some longer duration cooldowns (even if they don't mitigate as much it makes it easier when having a pocket healer) Juggs need help in the Immortal Tree, I think most people will admit that. A Vengence Jugg *can* shut down a PT DPS due to control and lack of being able to be stunned/cc'd etc after a charge which is easy for them to pull off. PT Shield tree needs some help as well since minus a Jet Charge and a root gimmick to grapple, has endless talents built around shielding which well, does nothing in PvP. They don't have the self healing or cooldowns Juggs or Sins have that are within that tree. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwnshoppe Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I disagree. One reason PTs are so effective is their flexibility. Sometimes fighting in, or close to, the pocket is a bad idea. PTs are optimal at 4m, strong at 10, and effective enough at 30m to disrupt a primary target, unless its a tank. So I'd counter than PTs that don't profit from the tactical flexibility, are the ones doing it wrong. Goes with my other arguement: 4m = 100% dps 10m = 80% dps 30m = 20-30% dps Also keep in mind we have the worst gap closers. 1 pull on a 45 second cooldown. All of the other melee specs have at least 2 gap closers, and usually they are on a much shorter cooldown. I'm ignoring ops for this arguement since they aren't competitive in melee range (in my mind). I guess BW hates them. At least they are the most powerful heal spec though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twor Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Goes with my other arguement: 4m = 100% dps 10m = 80% dps 30m = 20-30% dps Also keep in mind we have the worst gap closers. 1 pull on a 45 second cooldown. All of the other melee specs have at least 2 gap closers, and usually they are on a much shorter cooldown. I'm ignoring ops for this arguement since they aren't competitive in melee range (in my mind). I guess BW hates them. At least they are the most powerful heal spec though. Add to that the fact that our gap closer builds resolve. So if the opponent has his bar filled you can say bye bye to the pulling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DweezillKagemand Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Goes with my other arguement: 4m = 100% dps 10m = 80% dps 30m = 20-30% dps Also keep in mind we have the worst gap closers. 1 pull on a 45 second cooldown. All of the other melee specs have at least 2 gap closers, and usually they are on a much shorter cooldown. I'm ignoring ops for this arguement since they aren't competitive in melee range (in my mind). I guess BW hates them. At least they are the most powerful heal spec though. You are also the only melee class with effective ranged attacks + your hard hitting ability has a 30m range. (Saber throw doesn't really count). Your argument is pretty invalid. (Ignoring Operative) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwnshoppe Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) You are also the only melee class with effective ranged attacks + your hard hitting ability has a 30m range. (Saber throw doesn't really count). Your argument is pretty invalid. (Ignoring Operative) I'm not sure what to tell you then. If you are getting owned up by pyro's at 30m range, there are probably some other issues like skill, gear or both. We have 1 hard hitting attack that has a 15 second cooldown. The only way to reduce that is to move to melee range. Edited May 9, 2012 by pwnshoppe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twor Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 You are also the only melee class with effective ranged attacks + your hard hitting ability has a 30m range. (Saber throw doesn't really count). Your argument is pretty invalid. (Ignoring Operative) Please look about how the Pyro spec works. A Pyro is required to close the range, otherwise he will a.) heatstarve b.) do not anything in significant damage ways. A Pyro can OPEN on 30m, after that he must close the range or he stands no chance to win. Like pwnshope said we need to be at 10m and sometimes switch to 4. You call his arguments invalid? You don't even have any arguments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundamemo Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 I don't have that much of a problem with the pyro PTs on my Mercenary. I am also Pyro spec'ed. The real trick is not to be their primary target. If we start off and they begin focusing on me then its going to be a world of hurt but i usually hang back and start in on them when they have chosen their target. Blindly rushing them is a good way to die but if i can get my rotation started on them before they do on me then it usually ends up in my favor. So the class is fine because you can kill him while he's occupied with someone else? Excellent logic, in that case merc are fine too. I'm sure they can kill any class if the other guy is pre-occupied with someones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lijahrobinson Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Shadows have better survivability than PTs do in any spec (In regards to cooldowns). DPS Shadows, in a 1v1 actually are a bit better if they use Force Shroud offensively. In a group drawn out setting though a DPS PT will shine by having a bit more base mitigation and some longer duration cooldowns (even if they don't mitigate as much it makes it easier when having a pocket healer) Juggs need help in the Immortal Tree, I think most people will admit that. A Vengence Jugg *can* shut down a PT DPS due to control and lack of being able to be stunned/cc'd etc after a charge which is easy for them to pull off. PT Shield tree needs some help as well since minus a Jet Charge and a root gimmick to grapple, has endless talents built around shielding which well, does nothing in PvP. They don't have the self healing or cooldowns Juggs or Sins have that are within that tree. Just my thoughts. Someone that knows whats going down. Kudos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zintair Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Please look about how the Pyro spec works. A Pyro is required to close the range, otherwise he will a.) heatstarve b.) do not anything in significant damage ways. A Pyro can OPEN on 30m, after that he must close the range or he stands no chance to win. Like pwnshope said we need to be at 10m and sometimes switch to 4. You call his arguments invalid? You don't even have any arguments... Any other 10M class. 4M - 100% damage 10M - 60% damage 30M -0-10% damage Do you see the difference? You are supposed to be a MDPS but you are effective from ALL ranges and can apply pressure from ANYWHERE in range of other classes. Sure you will lose to a RDPS if you try to toe to toe at 30M range but act like you don;t have CC or pull. Oh - All Pulls add Resolve. Edited May 9, 2012 by Zintair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwnshoppe Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Any other 10M class. 4M - 100% damage 10M - 60% damage 30M -0-10% damage Do you see the difference? You are supposed to be a MDPS but you are effective from ALL ranges and can apply pressure from ANYWHERE in range of other classes. Sure you will lose to a RDPS if you try to toe to toe at 30M range but act like you don;t have CC or pull. Oh - All Pulls add Resolve. You are also ignoring the fact that melee have gap closers to be in their 100% range more often. Also they have survivability cooldowns that are worlds beyond what a vanguard has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundamemo Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Why do people conveniently keep forgetting that Pyro PT have GRAPPLE!! They PULL you from 30 meter to them. The whole they did less than optimal damage from 30 meter is invalid because they can PULL you to them, into their optimal range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Why do people conveniently keep forgetting that Pyro PT have GRAPPLE!! They PULL you from 30 meter to them. The whole they did less than optimal damage from 30 meter is invalid because they can PULL you to them, into their optimal range. Unless their resolve is full, and it's on a 45 sec cooldown. Which gives the other player, lets do some math, 45 seconds to build range up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwnshoppe Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Why do people conveniently keep forgetting that Pyro PT have GRAPPLE!! They PULL you from 30 meter to them. The whole they did less than optimal damage from 30 meter is invalid because they can PULL you to them, into their optimal range. A 45 second cooldown that is impacted by resolve is less effective than an 8 second cd leap that is not affected by resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoloplastic Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Why do people conveniently keep forgetting that Pyro PT have GRAPPLE!! They PULL you from 30 meter to them. The whole they did less than optimal damage from 30 meter is invalid because they can PULL you to them, into their optimal range. Their pull is on a 45 sec cooldown and a good PT will use it strategically (like pulling a tank away from the healer or vice versa for example) and not as a gap closer. If he does use it as a gap closer, non melee classes all have knockbacks on much shorter CDs. If you keep pyros outside 10m range you severely limit their DPS and they can't really close the gap on you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sowwy Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) I have a sent and guard, with plenty of experience in WZ. Level one yourself and you will find a whole new appreciation for the 30m ranged attacks PYROs receive, this I can guarantee . They are an important part of your arsenal and if you're NOT using them (at 30m), then you have room to improve. Edited May 9, 2012 by Sowwy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts