Most Boring OP AC : Pyro PT

[gundamemo]

This class has no challenge and can kill anything if they "really" want to.

 

My first main character was a Pyro PT and I simply don't play it anymore because it's so overpowered. I routinely top dmg/kill, solo cap Alderaan against 2-3 (because I can adrenal 4 shot any non-tank class and kill the other with one heal potion)

 

The thing is, the AC is relatively balanced from 1-49, its the elimintor set bonus (+15 crit rate to railshot) that push them over the board (that and explosive fuel which increase your crit rate by 25% for a time)

 

With Explosive fuel + relic + adrenal... there is NO way you don't kill someone with your proc combo.

 

A dot class should not have the 2nd best burst in game (behind one hit wonder, aoe smash)

 

Pyro has :

 

a) elemental dmg, they can kill tank just as easily as they can kill cloth

b) 30 yard range... ALL their ability can be fired from 30 yard... this is where assault tree is bad because it work only within 10 yard, it is just as squishy as sentinel but deal less dmg while having few defensive cooldown

c) spammable ensnare as part of their main dmg ability from 10 yards, high chance of ensnare from 30 yards

d) aoe stun to get out of group melee gank and act as extra interrupt

e) an enemy pull so people can't get away from you. Remember you can perma ensnare them as per point c)

f) four interrupt, melee interrupt, aoe stun, stun and pull

g) best AoE dmg in game... on top of everything (death from above)

 

Con:

a) heat management - juggle your ability wisely = good/bad player

b) kinda squishy... but considering your main attack can be fired from 30 yards away... you are usually quite safe from mobbing

 

Here's the combo (WITHOUT any relic or buff)

From 30 yards away:

Incendiary Missile - Railshot - Grapple/pull - Thermal detonator (FYI, this ability can not be cleansed) - Flame burst (ensnared) - Rocket Punch - (insert railshot at any point when you proc) - carbonize (aoe stun if sentinel or anticipate defensive cooldown) and flame burst until dead

 

Notice how you are in NO DANGER from this combo. Your set it up from 30 yards, pull the target to you and finish him off.

 

Remember your eliminator set bonus as 15% crit on railshot? With operative buff + BM gear... you will be at 30% + 15% = one in half of your railshot will crit... and each railshot ignore 90% of armor.

 

So essentially any none 30 yard encounter are like this. Dot-Crit RS... so you start at full where as enemy are at 7-80%...

 

You can proc your RS again by flame burst kiting them in 10 yards and weave in rocket punch (this hits hard, 2.6k crit... so use it often)

 

If against range class, just pull or stun them and apply same combo while walking to them.

 

Getting group ganked on? AoE stun, defensive cooldown and kill at least one before you die.

 

All those people who said to kill us before we kill them, impossible... we out dmg ANYONE 1v1 except for sniper. (this is assuming we see each other and start fight on equal footing)... except we can LoS-dot-RS-hide to kill them instead.

 

PvP balance is bad when you have a much better AC than rest, stacking Pyro is better than stacking sentinel... because we have better peel and better burst, your healer will die within 5 seconds with 2 pyro on him from 30 yards... where as sentinel deal significantly less dmg when they are not in melee range.

[Pistols]

Thanks for sharing, too bad some of that isn't true, cheers. Edited May 8, 2012 by Pistols

[Stratoforce]

I love hyperbole! Especially incorrect hyperbole!

[Twor]

 

 

Pyro has :

 

...

b) 30 yard range... ALL their ability can be fired from 30 yard... this is where assault tree is bad because it work only within 10 yard, it is just as squishy as sentinel but deal less dmg while having few defensive cooldown

c) spammable ensnare as part of their main dmg ability from 10 yards, high chance of ensnare from 30 yards

 

....

 

So all their abilities work from 30yards but their main damage has 10 yards? I'd be interested how I stockstrike from 30 yards. Or IonPulse for that matter. Are you sure you played a Pyro(Assault)? Btw Assault is the equivalent to Pyro on rep side.

 

I didn't bother reading any further as those two points already show that you 're grasp of Pyros is lacking a bit.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Twor

[MrHotter]

I like how you can do your damage from 30 meters away by pulling them next to you. Umm...if they are next to you then they are not 30 meters away.

 

I don't think many people are upset that a DPS character can do DPS.

 

If you think they are OP then play one. I've played around with the Pyrotec spec for a while and the DPS was fun, but in the end I went back to the 'help win the game' build for my BH.

[Monterone]

Don't forget they're also the only character that's 10 feet tall and can shoot lightning our of their arse!

[Pistols]

I like how the OP uses "yards" instead of meters.

 

Lulz.

[Fidopro]

did anyone read the whole thing or made it part way through but couldnt take any more of the BS?

[Marisblood]

All qqers are pyro techs. The man is perfectly corect in afirmation.

There is a movie released with lots of profes that he speak the truth.

[gundamemo]

So all their abilities work from 30yards but their main damage has 10 yards? I'd be interested how I stockstrike from 30 yards. Or IonPulse for that matter. Are you sure you played a Pyro(Assault)? Btw Assault is the equivalent to Pyro on rep side.

 

I didn't bother reading any further as those two points already show that you 're grasp of Pyros is lacking a bit.

 

Sorry, by assault I meant Advance prototype.

 

My point still stands, all the hard hitting pyro ability can be fired from 30 yard (or meter if you guys really care about ARTIFICIAL game measurement)

 

Pyro can start the battle 30 yards away and pull or walk close to 10 yard to use his other abilities only to proc the 2nd RS and pressure/finish enemy off.

 

Or, they can still fire from 30 yards, pull enemy to them and use their 10 yard ability while completely in the safety of backline.

[ShadowOfVey]

After reading this it is clear what needs to be done.

 

Nerf operatives

[Invictusthetaru]

Wait wait wait wait wait. I never knew about explosive fuel! Hahahahaha, wow. 15 seconds?! This explains a lot at least.

[gundamemo]

Wait wait wait wait wait. I never knew about explosive fuel! Hahahahaha, wow. 15 seconds?! This explains a lot at least.

 

Name me one OTHER class that has relic like OFFENSIVE buff that comes with the class?

 

All other offensive buff are tied to one ability or last 2-3 charges.

 

So what make PT so special that only they get a blanked crit buff where NO OTHER AC has it?

 

Riddle me that?

[Laforet]

we cant burst someone at 30m

 

our optimal range is 10m

 

our burst is too strong but that is true to all dps ACs (except sorc/sage)

 

its not the classes, its the expertise system and gear scaling.

 

were not OP, maras are not OP, juggs are not OP, 1.2 made every dps look OP (except sages/sorcs, mercs and bad geared operatives).

 

but yeah in a game were melee damage dealers are out of control i think maras and pyros are one tiny step ahead of the rest.

 

i would hate to see our class nerfed because its fun and i like the mechanics and also because i think BIOWARE WILL NERF US AND LEAVE MARAS ALONE (thats a feeling i have in my gut).

 

it would be better if they tone down expertise for dps (just a little bit, somewhere in between todays lvls and pre 1.2 lvls) or mess up with gerar scaling, buff stacking, etc.

[Invictusthetaru]

we cant burst someone at 30m

 

our optimal range is 10m

 

our burst is too strong but that is true to all dps ACs (except sorc/sage)

 

its not the classes, its the expertise system and gear scaling.

 

were not OP, maras are not OP, juggs are not OP, 1.2 made every dps look OP (except sages/sorcs, mercs and bad geared operatives).

 

but yeah in a game were melee damage dealers are out of control i think maras and pyros are one tiny step ahead of the rest.

 

i would hate to see our class nerfed because its fun and i like the mechanics and also because i think BIOWARE WILL NERF US AND LEAVE MARAS ALONE (thats a feeling i have in my gut).

 

it would be better if they tone down expertise for dps (just a little bit, somewhere in between todays lvls and pre 1.2 lvls) or mess up with gerar scaling, buff stacking, etc.

 

I've never thought mara's are OP, they are easily countered by roots and smart positioning, and ravage can be stunned. Good PT's will ALWAYS outdamage a good mara.

 

Not to mention my sage healer brother just cleanses himself and /laughs at their damage.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Invictusthetaru

[The_Bucket]

Yeah I re-rolled one on Fatman 2 days ago. I'm only level 20 and I don't have the peak abilities yet, but the damage is already starting to open my eyes. I would much rather fight a PT at range, then come in close.

[Gigabolt]

After reading this it is clear what needs to be done.

 

Nerf operatives

 

yes exactly, and AFTER that they can...well nerf operatives

[gundamemo]

Yeah I re-rolled one on Fatman 2 days ago. I'm only level 20 and I don't have the peak abilities yet, but the damage is already starting to open my eyes. I would much rather fight a PT at range, then come in close.

 

Wait until you get 50 and get Eliminator set bonus. PvP becomes a joke then.

[FMLDestroyer]

I love when you see "pls don't nerf me I like being OP". Well of course you do.

 

As far as other melee classes being "out of control", that's the real problem with PTs. They aren't a melee class. They are a hybrid class that gets crazy dmg with no cast times but kiting ability to deal with other melee.

 

The other melee classes that are close to being as powerful (but must be in melee range at all times to deal real dmg) are marauders which still require a highly skilled player to be considered OP which... Doesn't really fit the definition. Honestly if they made ravage interruptible again I would not ever consider them OP (and yes I realize that you can range it but don't pretend that you haven't been hit by it from up to 10m).

 

Guardian/ juggs have face roll aoe (in focus/rage) which crits above 5k but their other abilities not hitting that hard combined with set up time squishiness and being pure melee again relegates them to mildly OP only in the hands of high skill players.

 

Lastly we come to assassin/ shadow ( my conqueror valor main, have played all specs, not amazing just experienced) in tank spec and mild hybrid specs which use Combat stance (tank stance) . There is a case to be made that it is mildly op though this is mainly due to our self heals. The dmg done on specs using combat stance even with dps gear isn't nearly as high as the other classes (despite exaggerations to the contrary refer to consular thread about dps parses if doubtful) but self heals combined with stealth make us very annoying and with proper defensive CD usage and timely CC we are a powerful Spec but not truly OP without a guarded pocket healer and really what class isn't. Shadows in balance or infiltration are far less dangerous than any other melee class due to horrible squishiness and easily spottable set up for burst and being highly ccable. Infiltration being one of the most useless specs in all pvp, a "burst class" that struggles even with biochem and optimized BM gear to achieve 5k crits and is insanely cc able and peeled with extreme ease. Balance can be a valuable support class with dots and aoe, but is in no way OP.

 

Oh and I forgot scoundrel/ops who are merely healers now after being nerfed into the dirt. In the hands of ann extremely well geared and highly skilled player they can still be dangerous (what class cant) with front loaded burst and biochem ofc, but with a severe lack of utility and no gap closer they are a spec one rarely encounters and annoy rather than frighten as they used to.

 

In conclusion I don't feel that PTs need to be nerfed as much as retooled. Buff their 4m ability and make it more of a priority and nerf their 30m dmg capabilities. If they are to have "out of control" melee dmg make them work for it like other melee must.

 

Here Endeth The Book

[Monterone]

People post about the Eliminator set bonus like it's the best thing since the invention of beer.

 

That's a mercenary set and unfortunately the pt dps set is so bad, we have to resort to using a merc set which has a 2 set bonus that doesn't even apply to us. The 15% crit bonus to one ability is not so great.

 

The other PT set gives 15% crit to Rocket Punch, extra time on the AoE stun AND 15 seconds off CC breaker, but is better suited for a tank. That's why Iron Fist builds pick this set and enjoy all the bonuses, as you should when you wear the set made for you.

 

What they really need to do is put the railshot crit chance into our own dps set so that we don't have to wear gear intended for another class.

[Agooz]

This class has no challenge and can kill anything if they "really" want to.

 

My first main character was a Pyro PT and I simply don't play it anymore because it's so overpowered. I routinely top dmg/kill, solo cap Alderaan against 2-3 (because I can adrenal 4 shot any non-tank class and kill the other with one heal potion)

 

The thing is, the AC is relatively balanced from 1-49, its the elimintor set bonus (+15 crit rate to railshot) that push them over the board (that and explosive fuel which increase your crit rate by 25% for a time)

 

With Explosive fuel + relic + adrenal... there is NO way you don't kill someone with your proc combo.

 

A dot class should not have the 2nd best burst in game (behind one hit wonder, aoe smash)

 

Pyro has :

 

a) elemental dmg, they can kill tank just as easily as they can kill cloth

b) 30 yard range... ALL their ability can be fired from 30 yard... this is where assault tree is bad because it work only within 10 yard, it is just as squishy as sentinel but deal less dmg while having few defensive cooldown

c) spammable ensnare as part of their main dmg ability from 10 yards, high chance of ensnare from 30 yards

d) aoe stun to get out of group melee gank and act as extra interrupt

e) an enemy pull so people can't get away from you. Remember you can perma ensnare them as per point c)

f) four interrupt, melee interrupt, aoe stun, stun and pull

g) best AoE dmg in game... on top of everything (death from above)

 

Con:

a) heat management - juggle your ability wisely = good/bad player

b) kinda squishy... but considering your main attack can be fired from 30 yards away... you are usually quite safe from mobbing

 

Here's the combo (WITHOUT any relic or buff)

From 30 yards away:

Incendiary Missile - Railshot - Grapple/pull - Thermal detonator (FYI, this ability can not be cleansed) - Flame burst (ensnared) - Rocket Punch - (insert railshot at any point when you proc) - carbonize (aoe stun if sentinel or anticipate defensive cooldown) and flame burst until dead

 

Notice how you are in NO DANGER from this combo. Your set it up from 30 yards, pull the target to you and finish him off.

 

Remember your eliminator set bonus as 15% crit on railshot? With operative buff + BM gear... you will be at 30% + 15% = one in half of your railshot will crit... and each railshot ignore 90% of armor.

 

So essentially any none 30 yard encounter are like this. Dot-Crit RS... so you start at full where as enemy are at 7-80%...

 

You can proc your RS again by flame burst kiting them in 10 yards and weave in rocket punch (this hits hard, 2.6k crit... so use it often)

 

If against range class, just pull or stun them and apply same combo while walking to them.

 

Getting group ganked on? AoE stun, defensive cooldown and kill at least one before you die.

 

All those people who said to kill us before we kill them, impossible... we out dmg ANYONE 1v1 except for sniper. (this is assuming we see each other and start fight on equal footing)... except we can LoS-dot-RS-hide to kill them instead.

 

PvP balance is bad when you have a much better AC than rest, stacking Pyro is better than stacking sentinel... because we have better peel and better burst, your healer will die within 5 seconds with 2 pyro on him from 30 yards... where as sentinel deal significantly less dmg when they are not in melee range.

 

Yea I cant stand all them PTs running around in WZs! It's ridiculous! Hec no one plays Sage/Sorc/Shadows/Assasin/Marau at all! Nowadays you see more than half of the team being PTs! Please nerf them! I mean please nerf them AGAIN, since they were already nerfed in 1.2. </end sarcasm>

[gundamemo]

People post about the Eliminator set bonus like it's the best thing since the invention of beer.

 

That's a mercenary set and unfortunately the pt dps set is so bad, we have to resort to using a merc set which has a 2 set bonus that doesn't even apply to us. The 15% crit bonus to one ability is not so great.

 

The other PT set gives 15% crit to Rocket Punch, extra time on the AoE stun AND 15 seconds off CC breaker, but is better suited for a tank. That's why Iron Fist builds pick this set and enjoy all the bonuses, as you should when you wear the set made for you.

 

What they really need to do is put the railshot crit chance into our own dps set so that we don't have to wear gear intended for another class.

 

Look around, no other pvp set bonus buff their class' hardest hitting ability with 15% crit chance. There's a world of difference between crit your hardest hit 1/2 the time vs 1/3 of the time.

 

The fact this spec has crit dmg boost talent and have the option to talent it to bypass 90% of target's armor...

 

... and you can proc to fire it twice within 6 seconds...

 

on top of everything else you are doing to enemy...

[Ravashakk]

g) best AoE dmg in game... on top of everything (death from above)

 

Not that I didn't agree with the fact that PTs are way OP and most the points you made, but....

 

Orbital strike > Death from Above.

 

Orbital strike with a 2 pc sniper bonus gives you a 12 sec "set it and forget it" aoe, which is great for keeping ppl off objectives for a long period of time whether you're cced, dead, or in range. On top of that, it hits like a truck. I routinely get 3k+ crits.

 

Besides that, I think a buffed smash from a rage marauder/jugg would be the best AOE in the game if you're talking pure burst from 1 hit.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Ravashakk

[Kleve]

This class has no challenge and can kill anything if they "really" want to.

 

 

Yes, but many are the times when I que for a WZ, get in, target an opponent and think 'Meh' and /dance instead of melting his face off.

[SajPl]

Look around, no other pvp set bonus buff their class' hardest hitting ability with 15% crit chance. There's a world of difference between crit your hardest hit 1/2 the time vs 1/3 of the time.

 

The fact this spec has crit dmg boost talent and have the option to talent it to bypass 90% of target's armor...

 

... and you can proc to fire it twice within 6 seconds...

 

on top of everything else you are doing to enemy...

 

No the sentinel's set bonus just reduces the cooldown of the FU shield (guarded by the force) by 15 seconds.

 

As for a complex rotation : Force leap+overload saber+zelous strike+cauterize+merciless slash REALLY HARD 5 abilities in a rotation, I hope all those sentinels have enough IQ to grasp at the complexity of it.

And yes I know the sentinel has more abilities (like master strike for example), just like the pyro (pulse cannon for example) its just the bad players (both pyro and sentinels) do not use them and EVERY class can be oversimplified (gravspam anyone?)

 

Name me one OTHER class that has relic like OFFENSIVE buff that comes with the class?

 

All other offensive buff are tied to one ability or last 2-3 charges.

 

So what make PT so special that only they get a blanked crit buff where NO OTHER AC has it?

 

Riddle me that?

 

Because using ZEN every 15-30 seconds making my dots hit for over 1k per tick is worse than 15 sec of +25%crit chance every 2 minutes ... right nice joke.

 

 

 

The diferrence between my sent and my pyro is : on the pyro i have to plan my positioning since the gap closer has a 45 sec cooldown not 15-12 and i have to work for my survivability (1 defensive cooldown not 4).

If at this point some sent/mara says "but you have heavy armor" he will just prove he is one of the majority of badds and has no idea what he is talking about.

Edited May 9, 2012 by SajPl