SWTOR Replayability

[CPUKiller]

Warning: This post is just my opinion, I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything.

 

With the big push of the Legacy update I think we can all agree one of the major goals BioWare is setting for SWTOR is that people will play multiple classes. This is great, and provides bonuses for playing other classes via the legacy rewards.

 

But, and this is a big but, there is just too much shared content not just between classes on the same side of the war but globally. I've played Sith Inquisitor and Jedi Knight to level 49/50 completing all the quests and planets including bonus series besides Heroics.

 

I want to play other classes, I even started a Trooper; but I get to Coruscant and other than the class story it's the same exact quests as Jedi Knight AND Inquisitor (of course with a different quest giver for the Imperial side). I'm flash forwarding in my mind and thinking about replaying all the quests and grind from Nar Shadaa, Belsavis, Taris, Voss, etc., and it's very disheartening to think about the boredom in redoing all those quests over again.

 

To me that's the biggest obstacle to replayability, I don't think anyone is going to want to do the same quests 4 (for quests shared among all classes of the same side) and or 8 (for quests shared among both sides) times. I know it's too late now to change without basically wiping all characters and starting over (which will hopefully never happen); but there definitely should have been more quests specific to each class. Even if that meant each class is much faster to level to 50 and has less content on an individual class basis.

 

I know many people will play all 4 or 8 classes and more power to the ones that do, but I don't think I'll make it past 2-3 classes without getting too bored of the shared content.

Edited May 7, 2012 by CPUKiller

[Drebs]

I'm having the same problem after having leveled to 50 for the first time. I feel like I spent an eternity on each planet already, and I don't know if I can do it again.

 

My initial understanding of Legacy was that it was going to make leveling alts easier with inherited bonuses and gear, but I'm finding the impact to be pretty minimal. I love the SWTOR universe, but I may have to accept this might not be the game for me

Edited May 8, 2012 by Drebs

[Darkhosis]

You have found my stumbling block and the stumbling block of many others. Doing the same planet quests got unbearable the third time around.

 

While I originally thought it wouldn't be a problem for me it has and turned me off completely. My Sith sorc sits on Corellia @ level 48 and done with his class quests. All I can do now are Corellia and it's like being ordered to have sex with Rosanne Barr. Just ain't gonna happen.

 

Another huge problem I found that will cripple this MMO is character attachment. Most MMO's want you to invest in a character and get hooked in that way. There is no toon attachment in SWTOR. Got my JK to 50 and threw him in the trash, rolled a BH got him to 50 and same situation, now my Sorcerer is 48 and what's my choice? Throw him in the trash as well to do it all over again. I have zero attachment to any of my characters.

 

I quit WOW right after WOTLK with multiple level 80's across 5 accounts all decked out. I feel more attached to those characters I haven't played in YEARS than any of my SWTOR guys.

[Wolfninjajedi]

You could always level via just PVP/Space daily quests, thats what I am doing with my JK now, I leveled up an Agent like that too its refreshing. Also...not only is it slower, so your not burning yourself out going through the same generic planet quests. It also seems to make time go faster, with my Agent who was pre 1.2 I kept playing him to lvl 50 and before I knew it 1.2 patch was up and running, thus I could go right to work and make my Chiss JK. So here is what I recommend, if you wanna slow down, and not burn yourself this also makes waiting for the next content patch much easier.

 

Level to the end planet's level. So for instance.

 

Nar Shadda: 20-24, level up by just doing PVP/Space combat dailies, you can also throw in a FP and companion convos(this is also great for leveling up crew skills too.) Then just do the class quest.

 

This way, you not only have an easier time with the planet(and you just really need to do the class quest). BUT you still get the xp from your class quest, and play your cards right you could get a new level by the time you leave the current planet.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Scrubtastic]

Why would you even care about leveling multiple classes to 50 unless you plan to play them all at lvl 50. The legacy perks is just a selling point to the game and doesn't do anything to make the game better. It's just a way to keep the casuals paying to play a single player game.

 

Even if you level 6 toons to 50, you don't get **** but the class buff and to see the class story while doing the same boring quest grind. What exactly are you going to do with all those lvl 50? If you beat all the ops in NM, I'm sure you dont want to run those boring *** raids again on another toon.

[Kourage]

90% of the quests are the same for all Republic or Sith. Even some of them are the same cross faction. I hate doing non story quests. They are boring and always a grind.

[hippiechick]

Why would you even care about leveling multiple classes to 50 unless you plan to play them all at lvl 50. The legacy perks is just a selling point to the game and doesn't do anything to make the game better. It's just a way to keep the casuals paying to play a single player game.

 

Even if you level 6 toons to 50, you don't get **** but the class buff and to see the class story while doing the same boring quest grind. What exactly are you going to do with all those lvl 50? If you beat all the ops in NM, I'm sure you dont want to run those boring *** raids again on another toon.

 

 

I also play alts to level cap in games but dont play end game on more than one char, EVER. All I want is to see the content in games. Having multiple chars all decked out in the coolest gear and running the same raid dungeons multiple times each week just doesnt interest me. I have a real life that I quite enjoy and one char is good enough. But why do it you ask?

Well...

For me its about knowing how to play all the classes and having all the professions available to me. I solo a LOT and am proud of the fact that I am self sufficient. I can make my own stims, mod my own gear, MAKE my own gear, etc. If I need item X Ill go get it ( I NEVER use auction houses, Ill get the thing I need on my own). If that means making and leveling a char in order to get a crew skill to get item x. Ill do it. Playing like this makes the game fun for me and I do it in all games.

I dont know why the OP does it but thats why I do.

 

M

[CPUKiller]

I also play alts to level cap in games but dont play end game on more than one char, EVER. All I want is to see the content in games.

 

That 's essentially it for me too, I love Trooper so far but I also care about story. Just playing the same quests over and over again gets boring quick.

[Scrubtastic]

I also play alts to level cap in games but dont play end game on more than one char, EVER. All I want is to see the content in games. Having multiple chars all decked out in the coolest gear and running the same raid dungeons multiple times each week just doesnt interest me. I have a real life that I quite enjoy and one char is good enough. But why do it you ask?

Well...

For me its about knowing how to play all the classes and having all the professions available to me. I solo a LOT and am proud of the fact that I am self sufficient. I can make my own stims, mod my own gear, MAKE my own gear, etc. If I need item X Ill go get it ( I NEVER use auction houses, Ill get the thing I need on my own). If that means making and leveling a char in order to get a crew skill to get item x. Ill do it. Playing like this makes the game fun for me and I do it in all games.

I dont know why the OP does it but thats why I do.

 

M

 

 

Have fun paying $15 a month to play by yourself when there are dozens of better single player games that don't have a monthly sub.

[mokkh]

Hmmm, and yet all other MMOs are 100% the same quests in all common zones for all characters with 0% unique class storylines. (i.e. non instanced like the wow dk starter zone or the rift "hooray you made it to 50 in a wow clone" back patting festival) Games like lotro and dcuo divvied them up for quasi-uniqueness (based on race/town or mentor, respectively) but they are still shared and not unique by any means. I guess swg had some dedicated quests (maybe? i don't remember b/c the ground game was so horrible compared to space that i spent more time in a cockpit) but again, the overwhelming majority of terminal missions or w/e they were called were the exact same.

 

In fact, all video games I have ever played (ever ever) have everyone doing the same thing over and over again. Its an effect of things being pre-programmed before you play it, code can't write itself on the fly. Even the games that have a simulation of change only allow changes that have been predetermined beforehand. Play any video game long enough, and it will inevitably repeat itself.

 

/boggle

 

Questions for the bored to reflect on:

1) Are you switching alignments? (do you actively make choices in the story or force a uniform LS/DS path)

2) Are varying your roles? (do you play nothing but one archetype; all dps, all tank, or all heal)

3) Are you mono-factional? (do you play nothing but all sith or all jedi)

 

THIS IS THE POINT:

The reason so many side quests necessarily overlap is because: the game is meant to be played with other people.

In addition to extra exp, you get social points for all of those basic interactions in side quests as well. Maybe someone else will win the dialogue roll so that the monotone response of your character doing things in a mono-alignment manner isn't all you are constantly hearing. They put side quests in so that besides the singular class quests that you have sole control over where others can go into "spectator mode" there is an interim allowing you to accomplish something together.

 

On its face it might seem bald and repetitive, but the idea is actually very good. I don't think they were counting on so many people being entirely intent on soloing anything and everything all the time as a de facto method of play.

 

Just in case you think I'm against soloing or trying to impugn that playstyle, my first 50 got there with ZERO social points. Even now if I can't find a group for daily heroics I will stubbornly solo through them, that too can be fun since it raises the bar on my performance. So believe me when I say that I'm not anti-solo but I do think that we as a community need to actually commune together in the game, at least from my experiences on my server. All I can do is change my behavior, and I have. Dramatically.

 

Do you have to group to max level? Not by a longshot. But the game (IMO) is incredible when you do, and I regret having taken so long to come out of my entrenched anti-pug WoW shell.

 

In full disclosure: I do play endgame on all 4 of my 50s, and all of the roles are different (i.e. a tank, a heal, and 2 dps) I am still leveling "alts" but look at all characters as "mains".

 

I don't subscribe to threads and I have no notifications turned on so don't expect a response if you want to argue, this is nothing more than opinion driven rhetorical food for thought. No offense is intended to anyone in anyway. You can flame for the fences, I'm going to go play now. You can find me on Shien, having a blast.

[Elhanan]

I have beta tested a Jedi Counselor, and since tested a played a 50th Sorcerer, and a BH Merc and Trooper, and have found that while the quests may be the same, the dialogue is not. It is often filled with changes to offer openings for making different choices. My Sith killed the Boss in one such Mission to show dominance, and my Merc allowed him to go into exile as the Boss was justified in the Merc's eyes.

 

No spacebar required, except when trying to please a Companion and avoid snarky replies for laughs.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Elhanan

[Cerion]

For me, the replay-ability is fine. It takes me 2 months to level to 50. I'm alternating Republic and Imperial classes so when I return to one faction, 4 months have gone by since I completed a quest. This is enough time for the content to be interesting again, if not entirely fresh. And in some cases, I'm completing content that I missed during my first romp through a planet.

[GothicSaint]

Hmmm, and yet all other MMOs are 100% the same quests in all common zones for all characters with 0% unique class storylines. (i.e. non instanced like the wow dk starter zone or the rift "hooray you made it to 50 in a wow clone" back patting festival) Games like lotro and dcuo divvied them up for quasi-uniqueness (based on race/town or mentor, respectively) but they are still shared and not unique by any means. I guess swg had some dedicated quests (maybe? i don't remember b/c the ground game was so horrible compared to space that i spent more time in a cockpit) but again, the overwhelming majority of terminal missions or w/e they were called were the exact same.

 

In fact, all video games I have ever played (ever ever) have everyone doing the same thing over and over again. Its an effect of things being pre-programmed before you play it, code can't write itself on the fly. Even the games that have a simulation of change only allow changes that have been predetermined beforehand. Play any video game long enough, and it will inevitably repeat itself.

 

/boggle

 

Questions for the bored to reflect on:

1) Are you switching alignments? (do you actively make choices in the story or force a uniform LS/DS path)

2) Are varying your roles? (do you play nothing but one archetype; all dps, all tank, or all heal)

3) Are you mono-factional? (do you play nothing but all sith or all jedi)

 

THIS IS THE POINT:

The reason so many side quests necessarily overlap is because: the game is meant to be played with other people.

In addition to extra exp, you get social points for all of those basic interactions in side quests as well. Maybe someone else will win the dialogue roll so that the monotone response of your character doing things in a mono-alignment manner isn't all you are constantly hearing. They put side quests in so that besides the singular class quests that you have sole control over where others can go into "spectator mode" there is an interim allowing you to accomplish something together.

 

On its face it might seem bald and repetitive, but the idea is actually very good. I don't think they were counting on so many people being entirely intent on soloing anything and everything all the time as a de facto method of play.

 

Just in case you think I'm against soloing or trying to impugn that playstyle, my first 50 got there with ZERO social points. Even now if I can't find a group for daily heroics I will stubbornly solo through them, that too can be fun since it raises the bar on my performance. So believe me when I say that I'm not anti-solo but I do think that we as a community need to actually commune together in the game, at least from my experiences on my server. All I can do is change my behavior, and I have. Dramatically.

 

Do you have to group to max level? Not by a longshot. But the game (IMO) is incredible when you do, and I regret having taken so long to come out of my entrenched anti-pug WoW shell.

 

In full disclosure: I do play endgame on all 4 of my 50s, and all of the roles are different (i.e. a tank, a heal, and 2 dps) I am still leveling "alts" but look at all characters as "mains".

 

I don't subscribe to threads and I have no notifications turned on so don't expect a response if you want to argue, this is nothing more than opinion driven rhetorical food for thought. No offense is intended to anyone in anyway. You can flame for the fences, I'm going to go play now. You can find me on Shien, having a blast.

 

You never played EQ1 EQ2 or vanguard .

 

In a way I feel almost sorry for the younger gamer crowd that was born into the WoW type set of gaming

 

Naaaaaahhhh...

[Raekor]

I sort of agree.

 

I have my main, I have fun with her and don't envision playing anything else at 50. But there are 7 other story lines I would like to experience. I am already pushing the boundaries of the game mechanics by skipping planet quests, and now two of those characters aren't playable unless I go back and do planet quests, or sit on the fleet and try and get a low level fp going (amidst the spam of HM's people want). Even on a full server that isn't going to happen easily. I'll get there in the end. At the moment I am trying to mix it up by playing different faction/classes/levels on different days to space out doing the same missions.

 

Maybe it is my fault I hated the space missions and I hate PvP.

 

I also look at the Coming Soon tab for Legacy features and see the extra xp for doing different aspects of the game, and sigh that they didn't put in another option for large xp increases from the class quest so you can go through the story without having to grind. And this coming from somebody that doesn't really have a problem grinding at 50 for gear.

 

Just remembered something else, for those saying different options give different speech and results. Usually it is the line directly after your response, I usually watch that and spacebar through the rest that is exactly the same.

[mokkh]

You never played EQ1 EQ2 or vanguard .

 

In a way I feel almost sorry for the younger gamer crowd that was born into the WoW type set of gaming

 

Naaaaaahhhh...

 

I'm almost 37. I was pre-kunark era in EQ1 and know what it means to fall down the pit in befallen for no cr or run (with dial up no-less) from neriak to qeynos or camp sisters of erollisi in oot, the ac, sg inc in oasis and stay the hell away from spectre island, etc. I quit not long after kunark and returned to GoD, OOW, DoN, all the way up to HoT (holy schnikes I's knows acronyms!). If eqplayers was actually up you could search the name "Mokkh" and find my old raiding sk there (yes I'm a former member of both SKO and evilgamer). The only reason I ever played WoW is because my father-in-law (incidentally the same person who got me to play EQ) bought me the expacs with game cards. Your prejudice for opinions that aren't yours, like your assumptions of the basis for my opinions, are wrong. Stop being wrong.

 

Oh and I did play both EQ2 as well as that stupid pirate game, vanguard was a no. They never took.

Edited May 8, 2012 by mokkh

[daveydiablo]

The reason so many side quests necessarily overlap is because: the game is meant to be played with other people.

 

Maybe BW should hire you. I feel they missed this point when designing their game.

[redsovereign]

Hmmm, and yet all other MMOs are 100% the same quests in all common zones for all characters with 0% unique class storylines.

 

Not true not true.

 

A lot of MMORPGS have different starting zones that are choosable either by setting your starting area when you roll a new toon or by travelling. This means that you don't have to do the same 1 area over and over and over.

 

The problem is that it's hard to implement in ToR because it's so heavily driven by the class story that you have to go through the same areas with all toons but it is something that I'd like Bioware to actually solve because if they are going to make use of the legacy system it has to be enjoyable to level up alts and atm for the most part it just isn't.

 

At least we have the option to PVP to 50 which is very welcome. I just hope Bioware can expand on the leveling experience in the future and also make it more challenging so it takes more time to get to 50. Also there needs to be a better balance around how you gain exp because atm the game is so based on that you have to do all bonuses on quests + heroics + bonus series. For me this is what makes it very counterengaging to rolling alts since this kind of leveling experience is too tedious.

 

There needs to be way more quests in every area. A good way to do questing is by doing so that you can pick up so much quests in a quest hub that you will never run out of them. This does not mean that one hub have quests taht scales to 50 but that you have a lot of choices so instead of going into the dark temple as sith you can instead do 5 other quests that gives the same exp but are set in different places and with different objectives.

I do understand this takes time when you have to do VO's but it would also end up in alting being way more enjoyable then it is at this moment.

 

Bonus series is incredible bad designed atm since a lot of them are meant to follow up on the main story. The problem with this is that in some cases through the normal questing + class questing you are told basically that "you destroyed the opposition" or "you saved the opposition from evildoers" then the bonusseries suddenly appears and bring you back to redo what you have already done because the quests themselves didn't understand that you already have beaten everything.

 

There needs to be more choice as to what you want to do on a planet. Forcing everyone to do everything to either save ppl or destroy them doesn't make sense in a MMO setting where the goal is to make your own story.

Even as a Jedi Sage why would I care about doing stuf that has nothing to do with my class quest and just waste my time? The smugglers can do that stuf if they want more loot and credits, as a Jedi who are trying to save someone particular in peril I don't care.

 

The game needs better story design direction and just make sense of what you are doing because the difference in this game to other mmorpgs is that most other mmorpgs have you work from rag to riches. You start out as a unknown adventure who has to kill boars and stuf to earn reputation to win the affection of your village. After gaining enough reputation ppl start to hire you doing errands and after years and years of improving and honing your skills the military etc wants you to help with stuf. You start as a nobody and end up as a great adventure a slayer of the evil and a protector of the weak.

 

Swtor says this instead;; -You are a person with a great reputation from the get-go you are the "one" the "chosen" so if I am already the chosen one who everyone knows is destined to great things then why am I wasting my time? If you have the power to save the galaxy why are you running around fighting acolytes/poor mobsters in coruscants gang territory? Just doesn't make sense

Edited May 8, 2012 by redsovereign

[xQuicksilverx]

The replayability isnt any worse than other mmos.. usually for most MMOs every class gets the same quests with very little deviation. WoW has class quests that you get at certain level milestones and they are usually no different than other quests.

Once we get the dungeon finder, it will be easier to flash point grind your way through levels, rather than do all the quests again.

Im sure all of you ppl who dungeon finder their way to 85 in WoW know that doing the same **** with a group is better than doing it alone

[Anakronist]

Just wanted to chime in with Mokkh, I must say I had the most fun leveling up with a friend of mine in SWTOR over Skype. We both went Bounty Hunter, he a Mercenary me a Powertech, first off he went all Light Side, I went Dark Side for most options though I did choose some LS options. Anyway towards halfway to 50 I got him turned to the Dark Side of the force, mwahahahaha

[Goretzu]

I want to play other classes, I even started a Trooper; but I get to Coruscant and other than the class story it's the same exact quests as Jedi Knight AND Inquisitor (of course with a different quest giver for the Imperial side). I'm flash forwarding in my mind and thinking about replaying all the quests and grind from Nar Shadaa, Belsavis, Taris, Voss, etc., and it's very disheartening to think about the boredom in redoing all those quests over again.

 

Yes this is a big problem, hitting the same path again and again.

 

IMO they need to have alternative questing zone (probably without voice acting quests, just text ones, to make them quicker and cheaper to develop).

[Anakronist]

The replayability isnt any worse than other mmos.. usually for most MMOs every class gets the same quests with very little deviation. WoW has class quests that you get at certain level milestones and they are usually no different than other quests.

Once we get the dungeon finder, it will be easier to flash point grind your way through levels, rather than do all the quests again.

Im sure all of you ppl who dungeon finder their way to 85 in WoW know that doing the same **** with a group is better than doing it alone

 

The thing with WoW, and in essence the problem of all other games, is the amount of choice in setting you get. Most games, these days, gives you one choice, go with the beaten path, this zone, then this zone, then the next etc. WoW has several paths, at least from 1-60... After that, its the same path aswell ^^.

I personally don't mind it, whether the grass is green or brown isn't going to change it for me, but I think that some people DO mind that.

[vsalcedo]

Why would you even care about leveling multiple classes to 50 unless you plan to play them all at lvl 50. The legacy perks is just a selling point to the game and doesn't do anything to make the game better. It's just a way to keep the casuals paying to play a single player game.

 

Even if you level 6 toons to 50, you don't get **** but the class buff and to see the class story while doing the same boring quest grind. What exactly are you going to do with all those lvl 50? If you beat all the ops in NM, I'm sure you dont want to run those boring *** raids again on another toon.

 

Raids are boring only if you mke em boring. Is about the people you run with the loots just a side effect.

[Anakronist]

Raids are boring only if you mke em boring. Is about the people you run with the loots just a side effect.

 

This.

 

At least to me raiding was always boring once you got the fight down and understood it, but raid with the right people and its downright funny.

[xQuicksilverx]

True, you can go multiple ways making things a bit more interesting. I think that was a big problem with TOR. They will try to solve the problem by making more planets, thus spreading the population out even more.. but I think they should jsut offer different continents on each planet. Dromund Kass could easily have a level 40+ continent for republic players, same with Korriban.. there is so much lore there that the story would be easy to incorporate

[redsovereign]

Raids are boring only if you mke em boring. Is about the people you run with the loots just a side effect.

 

I disagree

 

Raiding is boring because raiding as end game raiding goes is just made for gear you up to do additional raiding this is why I like the heroics because their purpose is to gear you up to make your leveling experience easier whereas raiding is just designed to allow you to be equipped for the next raid and it just goes on and on and on and it's so utterly boring that after 20 mins you just start hammering your keyboard on random hoping the bosses will just give up and die

 

But each to their own.