Post your opinion on the current PvP food chain

[unicornfive]

I remember in January we had a thread on this forum where everyone could post their opinion on which class was the strongest and which was the weakest in PvP.

Fun fact: Back then the classes that were rated the weakest were Sniper and *drumroll* Marauder . It just shows that most people had not figured out how to play their class well and did not even have full Champion gear.

 

Now I think it would be fun to start a new thread to see what the general consensus on class balance is right now. I'll go first.

 

 

Top:

- Tank Assassin (dps gear), Marauder, Juggernaut (dps gear), Powertech (dps gear)

 

Middle:

- Sniper

- DPS Assassin, DPS Sorcerer, DPS Mercenary, All healers (Operative > Sorc = Merc)

 

Bottom:

- DPS Operative, full tanks (tank gear + tank spec)

 

 

 

Disclaimer:

1. Please keep the insults and QQs to a minimum. This is supposed to be a fun thread and everyone should be entitled to their own personal opinion.

2. I enjoy PvP in this game and think the class balance is fairly decent (even though I think we had the best balance at release and it has gotten slightly worse with every patch since then)

3. My rating is based on my opinion on "high level PvP play" in a warzone (not 1v1). For example when unexperienced players compete with each other the value of a DPS Merc would go up and the value of a Marauder would go down.

 

TOP :

Marauders / Sentinels

Operatives / Scoundrels (dps)

Tankassins / rep equivalent

Powertech / Vanguard (tank & dps)

 

MIDDLE :

Guardians / Juggernauts (dps)

Operatives / Scoundrels (heal)

Snipers / Gunslingers

Mercs / Commandos (dps & heal)

Assassins / Shadows (dps & tank)

 

BOTTOM :

Sorcs / Sages (dps & heal)

Juggernaut / Guardian (tank)

 

Though there are some imbalances within the same classes in talent trees :

(For example, while vengeance on jugg became a balanced spec with the buff of ravage and the +15% dmg reduction for 10 sec, Rage spec with dmg nerf of smash and cd increase on smash and scream, with the current rage spec survivability of jugg, it became a bit unplayable.)

Edited May 7, 2012 by unicornfive

[SeloDaoC]

TOP :

Marauders

Operatives (healers)

Tankassins

Powertech Pyrotech

 

MIDDLE :

Juggernaut (tank and dps)

Operatives (dps)

Snipers

Mercs Assault

Assassins (dps and tank)

 

BOTTOM :

Sorcs / Sages (dps & heal)

Merc (heal)

 

ROCK BOTTOM:

Mercs Arsenal

[LancelotOC]

Yea I wanted to also comment that Merc healers dont seem that much better than Sorc healers. If anything they seem even moreso fodder than us. I always find myself healing a merc healer to save him/her. Now they usually beat me in heal totals but I'm not sure if that extra healing is them healing themselves or others.

 

I wish there was a way to know how much healers heal others rather than themselves so you could see who really turns the tide in fights more reliably. I'd guess it was operatives foremost but not sure if it's Sorcs or Mercs in second.

[Ich_Bin]

Depends how you are defining your food chain, the ability to kill lower? If that is the case I fail to see why DPS sorc should be anywhere except the bottom in anyones list. Great DPS in PVE though as it can just keep churning out the damage over a long sustained period..

 

No that is not what I meant. Your rating seems to be based on 1v1 performance which I said should not be the basis for our ratings. The term "food chain" was probably a bit misleading.

 

I would just pose the question "What class would be the strongest to pick for a random warzone with 7 other random classes in it?" and base your rating on that.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[me_unknown]

i exclude healer speccs from my list. healers don't make sense in such a comparison in my opinion:

 

top: sents/mara, vang/pt with a special tank/tactics hybrid build (similar but not the IF build), some assa/shadow

near top: gunslinger/snipers, vang/pt assault/pyro specced (when tactics gets fixed a tactics build could get to the top)

mid: operatives, assault commandos/mercs

low: gunnery/tracer commandos/ mercs

dead meat for all but gunnery/tracer commandos/mercs: sage/sorcs - no really, you suck if you lose to them on level 50 with bm gear! before 50 it's a different story.

 

and as i said, healers are out of this list. i can't make a list that even remotely makes sense that includes healer. e.g. my vanguard kills everything but will be one of the worst on killing any healer specced class. it is due to his build which is awsome against everything except something with improved healing capabilities.

Edited May 7, 2012 by me_unknown

[Serpieri]

OP :

Marauders

Operatives (healers)

Tankassins

Powertech Pyrotech

 

MIDDLE :

Juggernaut (tank and dps)

Assassins (tank and dps)

Operatives - Concealment

Snipers

Pyro Mercs/Commandos

 

 

BOTTOM :

Sorcs / Sages (dps & heal)

Operatives - Lethality

Merc (aresnal/bodyguard)

 

Mercs - most on my server have re-rolled as powertechs/marauders/operative healers

Sorcs - little to no burst on the dps trees - dots to slow - unable to spread them out - cept for affliction - force issues

[Hethroin]

Quote: Originally Posted by xBloodcrazed View Post

you fool there is no shield/pyro hybrid since that got nerfed in 1.2 i would be very surprised to see any pyro/assault using a shield

 

uh, so you're saying i don't exist? that's an interesting gambit. i'll have to try that one in future discussions- "You do not exist, your argument is invalid."

 

Are you using a shield generator in CGC/Plasma Cell? If so, you may "exist", but you're "doing it wrong".

[furiousferret]

I will put Sins up at the top because I think hands down they are the best pvp class in the game. Nothing comes close, and while they dont put up big numbers, their tank / stealth dynamic simply wins games. People just dont roll them because its not as fun as other classes. I wont post the pub equivalent because I'm too lazy.

 

Top

------------

Assassins

 

Very Good

----------

Marauders

Powertechs

 

Average

----------

Operative (DPS)

Sorcerer (Heals)

Sorcerer (DPS)

Juggernauts

 

Not so hot

---------------

Snipers

Mercenaries (DPS)

Mercenaries (Heals)

 

When I have guildies doing consistent 700k healing in Voidstar on his Sorc and others doing 500k-600k damage as dps, I'm not sure why people thing its a totally broken class. I dont play it, but it seems like some players have figured it out.

[furiousferret]

I'd also put Operative Heals at above average, I think people are vastly overrating them because of the buffs. They're a solid healing class and the mobility is awesome, but they are not far and beyond better than the other 2.

[fungihoujo]

God Tier- Marauders- high CC, damage, survivability, defensive CDs, unable to be interrupted, mobility- easily the best class in the game cuz it can do almost anything

 

High Tier- Sins, Juggs

 

Mid Tier- Powertechs, Operatives, Snipers

 

Low Tier- Sorcs, Mercs

 

 

The list is practically reversed for terribads though- because a sorc spamming force lightning, or a merc spamming TM is going to do better than a marauder spamming auto attack- which is why so many marauders say they aren't OP.

[Monterone]

1. Marauder

2. Operative DPS = Jugg DPS

4. Tankassin = Pyrotech

6. Sniper (although sniper is probably on par with pyros and assassins)

7. Merc = Sorc

 

Heals:

1. OP

2. Merc

3. Sorc

[SneakyErvin]

Well, you can't really kite an Operative DPS because you lose so much HP very quickly while stunned. Any good OP dps can put out 400k+ damage easily and top the charts.

 

This link explains his reasoning.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=443190

Edited May 7, 2012 by SneakyErvin

[GRINnBARRETT]

Current pvp food chain as I see it:

 

Top: Best geared, highly skilled players

 

Middlin: Adequately geared, better than average skilled players

 

Bottom: Ungeared, scruburritos

 

Sorry for not playing by your rules, but that's how I see it.

[NDiggy]

PvP Power Rankings:

 

1) Tankassins

2) Marauders

3) Powertechs (Pyro)

4) Operative Healers

5) Hybrid Operative Healer/DPS

6) Assassin (Madness)

7) Juggernauts

8) Powetech (tank)

9) Sorc (Heals)

10) Sorc (DPS)

11) Merc (Heals)

12) Merc (DPS)

[vimm]

ill put my saboteur gunslinger up against any of those builds.

 

This, except make that an Engineering Sniper!

[Zooke]

Current pvp food chain as I see it:

 

Top: Best geared or highly skilled players

 

Middlin: Adequately geared or better than average skilled players

 

Bottom: Ungeared and scruburritos

 

Sorry for not playing by your rules, but that's how I see it.

 

Fixed it for you

[EugeneYap]

Current pvp food chain as I see it:

 

Top: Best geared, highly skilled players

 

Middlin: Adequately geared, better than average skilled players

 

Bottom: Ungeared, scruburritos

 

Sorry for not playing by your rules, but that's how I see it.

 

This^^ And.....

 

Here is my list, not base on DPS or whatever excuses the losers always enjoy crying about in the forums. but how useful they are in pvp in terms of CCs and utility skills in helping the team win. AGAIN NOT ABOUT DPS!!! OR KILLS!!!

 

TOP

Any Healers

PowerTech/Vanguard

Sorcs/sage

Operative/Scoundrel

 

Mid

Assassins/Shadow

Juggernaut/Guardian

Commando/Mercenary

Gunslinger

 

Bottom

Mara/Sent

Snipers

 

Before any QQ losers go "OMG MARA ARE OP HOW CAN PUT AT THE BOTTOM YOU ARE A NOOB ROFL!!!" or summon a the troll wagon at me,

I will use the favor phase that QQs love to use on me when I try explain how mechanics of pvp and how to deal with the class that they hate in the most moron proof methods "BALANCE IS NEVER BASE ON ONE VS ONE SCRUB!!!!!!"

Edited May 8, 2012 by EugeneYap

[glenbruton]

obviously the answer is:

 

Top: All the other classes

Bottom: My class!

[Mrcheezle]

Food chain really doesn't matter when it comes to coordinated mass PvP.

 

If you got Tanks protecting Healers, Healers healing everyone, DPS focus firing, and people not playing grab *** with objectives than you got a powerful fighting force. If the game was all 1v1's than Marauders and Shadows would probably dominate, but its not like that.

 

Let me know when you find some mass PvP in this game. lol

[Rasina]

Hi,

Someone up the thread answered it very wisely " Going 4 players after 1 healer is NOT a smart move". After a few WS's played I have stopped looking at the Last Page Ranking. I try to view the fight as a whole and try to play accordingly.

At the end of the day, if I get 50kills, 14medals and ranked top3 and LOST , I havent played as I should in that particular game. On the other end if I manage to have 2-3-4 dorks running after me at all times , they trying to kill ME, and WE WIN ... then I have done my job ... Ohh well ... just my way of ranking top to bottom..

 

/Ram

[Astarica]

The general hierarchy of roles would be DPS > Healer > Tank, with a caveat that one class (Tankasin) functions as two roles at the same time.

 

By actual specs it'd look like:

 

Tankasin (offense, defense, utility)

Marauder (no guard/taunt is the only thing that separates them from Tankasin)

Operative healer versus weak DPS teams

FOTM DPS that is actually strong (smash Jugg, PT, whatever)

All healer classes

Everyone else

[Kunkoh]

Current pvp food chain as I see it:

Top: Best geared, highly skilled players

Middlin: Adequately geared, better than average skilled players

Bottom: Ungeared, scruburritos

That's the short of it. Elite players that work hard to get good gear, know their class (and spec'd it accordingly), and work well on their team will always be better and more useful to their team no matter what class they play. Every game there are under-geared people who complain about having to work hard to get gear, and if just everyone had the same gear they would be awesome. Then if they aren't complaining about the gear and the time (effort) to get it, they complain about the other classes being OP because there's no way it could possibly be their skill, lack of knowledge of their class and lack of effort to learn (and get improve) that's setting them back.

[TheronFett]

Top Tier

Marauder/Sentinel - FOTM turning good players into demigods and making bad players competitive.

Tank Spec Assassin/Shadow - Decent DPS and overly hard to kill. Good utility.

Operative/Smuggler - DPS still has good burst, heal specs are very mobile.

 

Middle Tier

DPS Spec Powertech/Vanguard - Great burst, decent survivability and utility.

Sorcerer/Sage Healers - Still viable after the nerf, not godmode anymore.

Tank Spec Powertech/Vanguard - In DPS gear, still decent damage and more difficult to take down.

Juggernaut/Guardian - Versatile, good CC, good damage output.

 

Bottom Tier

Mercenary/Commando - Blah heals, blah DPS. No defense.

Sniper - One trick ponies.

DPS Sorc/Sage - Just enough damage to be annoying. Too easy to kill.

[Rasina]

Top Tier

Marauder/Sentinel - FOTM turning good players into demigods and making bad players competitive.

Tank Spec Assassin/Shadow - Decent DPS and overly hard to kill. Good utility.

Operative/Smuggler - DPS still has good burst, heal specs are very mobile.

 

Middle Tier

DPS Spec Powertech/Vanguard - Great burst, decent survivability and utility.

Sorcerer/Sage Healers - Still viable after the nerf, not godmode anymore.

Tank Spec Powertech/Vanguard - In DPS gear, still decent damage and more difficult to take down.

Juggernaut/Guardian - Versatile, good CC, good damage output.

 

Bottom Tier

Mercenary/Commando - Blah heals, blah DPS. No defense.

Sniper - One trick ponies.

DPS Sorc/Sage - Just enough damage to be annoying. Too easy to kill.

 

Question. Are we ranking from top to bottom based on personal experience and how we see the different classes out of game ? I just find it abit weird that no ranking in this thread up to now have like a sniff of reality to itself UNLESS its all based on personal opinion.

 

/Ram

 

This however is more to the point:

 

Quote: Originally Posted by GRINnBARRETT View Post

Current pvp food chain as I see it:

Top: Best geared, highly skilled players

Middlin: Adequately geared, better than average skilled players

Bottom: Ungeared, scruburritos

Edited May 8, 2012 by Rasina

[Macroecon]

It depends a lot on the environment in which the toon is placed. The fact that one subclass doesn't dominate in every situation is a minimum level balance check that ToR fortunately passes. However I think what people will discover once ranked warzones enter the picture is that when you stabilize the environmental parameters to be: 8 man PvP teams, strong players and the coordinated use of voice comm, certain subclasses will be greatly preferred to others.

 

Amongst healers, the clear hierarchy is: Operative, Sorc, Merc (or their corresponding mirrors). I think few would dispute this order.

 

For dps there is more contention. But given the parameters above, I'd put Marauders at the top (and yes I do play one in PvP). Marauders are actually one of the weakest dps classes in certain situations. For example if a team has no healers, the increased death churn rate hits Maras the worst. Similarly if a team communicates very poorly, Maras easily find themselves in the wrong strategic location and suffer some of the biggest downtime penalties. But these will not be issues in ranked wz for good teams. Instead good teams will have people providing a running commentary of information to Mara teammates to help with their poor situational awareness. And they will coordinate the Mara's awesome team buffs to chain cast Frenzy/Bloodlust/Predation to provide lengthy windows of team invincibility. Well coordinated teams will also pair Operative healers and Maras for maximum synergy between Undying Rage and Tactical Advantage.

 

Behind Maras, I'd put Rage Juggernauts and PT Pyros. Sorcs behind them, and everyone else at the back of the bus.

 

For tanks, well..... does it matter? Many teams might opt not to have a tank, particularly if wz map selection is offered.