Fozziwig Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 BioWare writes great stories, and they did so again in SWTOR. Hats off to them for that. Yet the biggest problem in this game, PvP, is caused by the fact that BioWare is so good at story that they think their stories will be enough to keep people playing. They are wrong because they fail to understand what makes a great MMO. It isn't playing the developer's story. Instead, what makes a great MMO is creating your own story. That's what we all remember about great MMO experiences. It's not the cool quests we did, it's the epic fights we got into when we, along with our friends, did something unexpected to the other faction. Ultimately, once you're done levelling and gearing, that's what keeps us coming back. The ability to do something different. This game doesn't allow that, and that must change. BioWare , if you want this to be a great game, take it off the rails. Stop trying to make us play your stories. Give us PvP where we can write our own stories. I want to take over the galaxy. I want to surprise the other faction. I want to create my own story. If BioWare can get over themselves and deliver this kind of PvP experience, this game will be amazing and I will play it for years. I hope they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaverickXIV Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 In what MMO do you feel like you were able to create your own story through PvP? I can think of maybe three where I would agree with you, and I have a feeling you played none of these three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synxos Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 In what MMO do you feel like you were able to create your own story through PvP? I can think of maybe three where I would agree with you, and I have a feeling you played none of these three. Shadowbane. Not a single quest. Extremely fun game. Where you did create your own story solely thru pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestic_Jazz Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 BioWare writes great stories, and they did so again in SWTOR. Hats off to them for that. Yet the biggest problem in this game, PvP, is caused by the fact that BioWare is so good at story that they think their stories will be enough to keep people playing. They are wrong because they fail to understand what makes a great MMO. It isn't playing the developer's story. Instead, what makes a great MMO is creating your own story. That's what we all remember about great MMO experiences. It's not the cool quests we did, it's the epic fights we got into when we, along with our friends, did something unexpected to the other faction. Ultimately, once you're done levelling and gearing, that's what keeps us coming back. The ability to do something different. This game doesn't allow that, and that must change. BioWare , if you want this to be a great game, take it off the rails. Stop trying to make us play your stories. Give us PvP where we can write our own stories. I want to take over the galaxy. I want to surprise the other faction. I want to create my own story. If BioWare can get over themselves and deliver this kind of PvP experience, this game will be amazing and I will play it for years. I hope they do. Nah, what separates SWTOR from other MMOs IS it's focus on story. You might not like it, but that doesn't mean it is a weakness. Perhaps you should find a MMO that has PvP as it's focus. That is like me going to the Battlefield 3 forums and complaining how DICE is too focused on realism and not enough focus on fast paced twitch gameplay like Call of Duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonb Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 It is a weakness and a strength It is a strength the first time you play and level It becomes a weakness because it stops at lvl 50 Funny how fast this thread was moved to suggestions, someone trying to clean up the general forum and sweep away the disturbing threads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozziwig Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) It is a weakness and a strength It is a strength the first time you play and level It becomes a weakness because it stops at lvl 50 My point exactly! EDIT: In fact, this post says my point even better- the game is great pre-50, but It's after 50 that it needs work. I think the only way to deliver that is to take if off the rails and deliver a "create your own story" MMO experience, which is what a great MMO does. Edited May 7, 2012 by Fozziwig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADGarner Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Shadowbane. Not a single quest. Extremely fun game. Where you did create your own story solely thru pvp. Shadowbane should have been developed and released ten years later. It was WAY too ahead of it's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bielduwyn Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 It is a weakness and a strength It is a strength the first time you play and level It becomes a weakness because it stops at lvl 50 Funny how fast this thread was moved to suggestions, someone trying to clean up the general forum and sweep away the disturbing threads? Oh get over yourself, if Bioware wanted to sweep things under the rug they'd just delete the topic and PM the user to not post topics about that subject again. That said, you can't make a game that pleases everyone. The typical Bioware story is a decision they made very early on when designing this game while some people love it, some don't, simple fact of life, really. If this game had been sandbox they would've alienated traditional Bioware fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 You people are way too deep into this stuff. PvP. You go out and kill people, build points, get better gear so you can kill more people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORTTUUM Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Nah, what separates SWTOR from other MMOs IS it's focus on story. You might not like it, but that doesn't mean it is a weakness. Perhaps you should find a MMO that has PvP as it's focus. This ^ PvP. You go out and kill people, build points, get better gear so you can kill more people. Which is exatly why I've never understood the attraction of PvP. You spend all that time gearing up to "kill" some other player's character, and 5 minutes later, he's back. I like the instanced stuff because what you "kill" stays killed (at least as far as you can see...), and then you move on and never go back. At least that feels like some kind of progress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livnthedream Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 BioWare writes great stories, and they did so again in SWTOR. Hats off to them for that. Yet the biggest problem in this game, PvP, is caused by the fact that BioWare is so good at story that they think their stories will be enough to keep people playing. They are wrong because they fail to understand what makes a great MMO. It isn't playing the developer's story. Instead, what makes a great MMO is creating your own story. That's what we all remember about great MMO experiences. It's not the cool quests we did, it's the epic fights we got into when we, along with our friends, did something unexpected to the other faction. Ultimately, once you're done levelling and gearing, that's what keeps us coming back. The ability to do something different. This game doesn't allow that, and that must change. BioWare , if you want this to be a great game, take it off the rails. Stop trying to make us play your stories. Give us PvP where we can write our own stories. I want to take over the galaxy. I want to surprise the other faction. I want to create my own story. If BioWare can get over themselves and deliver this kind of PvP experience, this game will be amazing and I will play it for years. I hope they do. but this game was never advertised this way. your preconceived notion of "what makes a great mmo" is also flawed. what i remember ARE the epic bossfights, and the pulls gone wrong that we managed to pull out, and the awe inspiring "danger" feeling of actual hard content, which some of these swtor doesnt have either, but then im not trying to change the game from what it was advertised as. im sorry this isnt the game you expected, nor wanted, but next time hopefully you will do a bit more research so you know what you will be getting instead of endlessly begging to get the game changed to fit you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 This ^ Which is exatly why I've never understood the attraction of PvP. You spend all that time gearing up to "kill" some other player's character, and 5 minutes later, he's back. I like the instanced stuff because what you "kill" stays killed (at least as far as you can see...), and then you move on and never go back. At least that feels like some kind of progress... That is actually not that bad an idea. Last team standing. Short encounters where, once one dies, they are out of that encounter and free to queue up for another. The team that wins (captures the flag etc.), wins. Each of them, whether they've been killed or not, gain the reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozziwig Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 I think it's odd, and slightly funny, that several replies to my post are about how the game wasn't "what I expected." I never said anything about my expectations. Not. One. Word. This post is not about my expectations, nor is it about how this game did or did not fail to meet them. Instead, it is about how BioWare can take the great low-level foundation of this game and make it great post 50 too. your preconceived notion of "what makes a great mmo" is also flawed. what i remember ARE the epic bossfights, and the pulls gone wrong that we managed to pull out, and the awe inspiring "danger" feeling of actual hard content Sure, some people like epic PVE. But there is a limit to how much of that you can do before it gets dull. Epic boss fights might be epic the first twenty times, but after that they stop being epic. My position is that the best way to make a game challenging and fun long term (and I mean more than a year) is with epic PvP. The way to make PvP epic is to take it off the rails. Probably not totally off the rails, but certainly more than it is now. That's my position. You, and others, might disagree, but that's my position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomyne Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Um... What? I'm confused. You're saying the thing that makes SWTOR the best MMO ever, is what's destroying it? I don't play this game for the PvP. I can go play WoW for that. I don't play the game for it's raids. I can go play WoW for that. I play this game for it's epic story told in the Star Wars universe. and I play this game to have that adventure with my friends. No other game has that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyvid Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Honestly I think the key reason PVP is so popular in this game is the ease of accessablity. Think about it. OPS / FP / Heroics: Spam /1 LFG until you can form a party. WZ: Click a button and continue doing whatever until your WZ is ready. To the OP: What exactly do you want from PVP. It's easy to say something is broken but what would you like to see that would fix it? Remember be specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livnthedream Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I think it's odd, and slightly funny, that several replies to my post are about how the game wasn't "what I expected." I never said anything about my expectations. Not. One. Word. This post is not about my expectations, nor is it about how this game did or did not fail to meet them. Instead, it is about how BioWare can take the great low-level foundation of this game and make it great post 50 too. because not only your thread title, but how you worded your suggestion shows that you are disappointed with how the game works. Sure, some people like epic PVE. But there is a limit to how much of that you can do before it gets dull. Epic boss fights might be epic the first twenty times, but after that they stop being epic. My position is that the best way to make a game challenging and fun long term (and I mean more than a year) is with epic PvP. The way to make PvP epic is to take it off the rails. Probably not totally off the rails, but certainly more than it is now. That's my position. You, and others, might disagree, but that's my position. you are working from the premise that pvp is somehow more engaging than pve, which from my experience is not the case. even from a pure mechanical level you can predict what an enemy will do, and how things will go purely based on class/skill levels. with the only real caveat being human error and your ability to mitigate/exploit it. the only real bonus that pvp has over pvp is the feeling of "beating" someone else instead of a machine, which i personally dont care for, and really dont think should be encouraged. especially when you see the griefing and general unsportsmanlike conduct that has arisen from it. im very turned off by both the attitude and the playerbase of that particular community than i am by the pve side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORTTUUM Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 you are working from the premise that pvp is somehow more engaging than pve, which from my experience is not the case. even from a pure mechanical level you can predict what an enemy will do, and how things will go purely based on class/skill levels. with the only real caveat being human error and your ability to mitigate/exploit it. the only real bonus that pvp has over pvp is the feeling of "beating" someone else instead of a machine, which i personally dont care for, and really dont think should be encouraged. especially when you see the griefing and general unsportsmanlike conduct that has arisen from it. im very turned off by both the attitude and the playerbase of that particular community than i am by the pve side. Very well stated. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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