Should we have listened? (Anonymous EA employee on a 2 year old article)

[Elhanan]

Haha, I left this thread for 24 hours and look, its people trying to defend a game that suffers major issues instead of playing it which would prove me wrong. People posting instead of getting "absolutely immersed" in the world of SW:TOR. Is it the long warzone queues which could have been solved by cross server queues for low population servers such as mine? Is it the lack of end game content besides farming warzone commendations and running 3 weekly operations? Is it the lack of a nice area you can play and have genuine fun in?

 

I tried to find a good reason as to why I should have stayed subbed but, couldn't and it is obvious that you guys find a need to defend against a legitimate point (in my eyes) made by a troll/hater?

 

Yes, these threads are popping up everywhere, come on, how much of a percentage do you think negative threads take up in these forums, it is almost depressing for the players who genuinely enjoy the game don't you? I personally make these points because i want a discussion that has good points, not just a simple "get out of here if you aren't subscribed etc etc." Though, it has gotten to a point where other more dominant MMOs are out/coming out.

 

No I did not expect this game to be a WoW-killer by any means because I did not expect it to kill any other MMO. I only wanted it to establish itself as a fun MMO to play. However, it has certainly tested my patience by answering what I see as irrelevant to obvious problems with the game in various Q&As.

 

It wouldn't be fair at all to say they haven't tried but, have they applied their effort in the right areas of concern?

 

My server is dying a horrific death in terms of population of players ( I will not comment on any others) and not much is being shown in terms of progress towards server transfers, cross server queues or even RATED warzones.

 

To those that do still find enjoyment, continue playing the game and if you are sick of seeing these threads, dont you think posting in them is kind of working against yourself (they get bumped back up duhhh).

 

Oh what a TOR-tanic...

 

Same keen powers of obsevation that link postings over a 24 hr hiatus and MMO death also brought back this article; fitting. Maybe it is the same cheery outlook that helps explain the population move from their server. Food for thought....

 

Sleep; like to link it into my own game time, and even work in the occasional nap. And when I start my day (whatever time that may actually be), I prefer to have my eye/hand reactions working a little better after breakfast and reading the Forums. Also why I like to run Space Missions first, to practice in a more forgiving environ, as opposed to the errors encountered in dialogue and combat elsewhere.

 

As one that enjoys the game, and has re-subbed, I do not mind sharing, even on a thread determined to cheer observed failure.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Elhanan

[Kubernetic]

Haha, I left this thread for 24 hours and look, its people trying to defend a game that suffers major issues instead of playing it which would prove me wrong. People posting instead of getting "absolutely immersed" in the world of SW:TOR. Is it the long warzone queues which could have been solved by cross server queues for low population servers such as mine? Is it the lack of end game content besides farming warzone commendations and running 3 weekly operations? Is it the lack of a nice area you can play and have genuine fun in?

 

I tried to find a good reason as to why I should have stayed subbed but, couldn't and it is obvious that you guys find a need to defend against a legitimate point (in my eyes) made by a troll/hater?

 

Yes, these threads are popping up everywhere, come on, how much of a percentage do you think negative threads take up in these forums, it is almost depressing for the players who genuinely enjoy the game don't you? I personally make these points because i want a discussion that has good points, not just a simple "get out of here if you aren't subscribed etc etc." Though, it has gotten to a point where other more dominant MMOs are out/coming out.

 

No I did not expect this game to be a WoW-killer by any means because I did not expect it to kill any other MMO. I only wanted it to establish itself as a fun MMO to play. However, it has certainly tested my patience by answering what I see as irrelevant to obvious problems with the game in various Q&As.

 

It wouldn't be fair at all to say they haven't tried but, have they applied their effort in the right areas of concern?

 

My server is dying a horrific death in terms of population of players ( I will not comment on any others) and not much is being shown in terms of progress towards server transfers, cross server queues or even RATED warzones.

 

To those that do still find enjoyment, continue playing the game and if you are sick of seeing these threads, dont you think posting in them is kind of working against yourself (they get bumped back up duhhh).

 

Oh what a TOR-tanic...

 

These threads are still a minority of the players in the game. Anecdotal evidence is not statistically valid.

 

Good try though!

 

And some of us browse the forums because we don't just want to sit there and marathon play the game forever because we have other things to do. I can log into the forums and read a few posts and respond to a few and be done and back to work again before I could have logged into the game and prepped for a single mission.

 

No reason to be confused here.

[Masakari_]

Sorry, I disagree. If the game was better people wouldn't leave.

And I disagree with you disagreeing. People will always leave because they dislike the game or are bored.

 

But after the first waves of "quits", most of what we're seeing now is people leaving because their servers are "dead / light" and thus lack the social / community interaction, reflecting on FPs, HCs, HMs, GTN, etc. The #1 thing everyone is complaining about these past few weeks is empty servers and lack of transfers and LFG tool.

 

Like I said, it's a snowball effect. People leave because people left.

 

Being "a good game" doesn't mean much. Tons of critically acclaimed titles have been massive commercial flops, so being a good game doesn't mean consumers will automatically buy it or stick with it. Helps, sure, but it's not a sure thing.

[Alkiii]

You know, I was on the fanboi bandwagon until this past weekend. I purchased a different game and I fell in love with it.

 

You want to know what is truly killing Star Wars: The Old Republic?

 

The Hero Engine.

 

 

I should never see 20-25 FPS in any part of the game with an i7 2700k @ 3.5 Ghz CPU / 8 GB G. Skill RAM / EvGA GTX 560 Ti OC GPU / 120 GB Adata SSD / Win 7 64-bit HP.

 

I saw this on Fleet and in Warfronts. Sure, it would stabilize around 30-40 FPS (which is fine by me) but there is absolutely no damn reason for a system like this one to ever get this low on a game like this.

 

After playing the other new release this weekend, I realized just how bad the Hero Engine is. Sorry Bioware/EA. I am afraid you've lost 3 more customers.

[run_hello]

Between TSW and GW2, I can't imagine anyone sticking around on the TORtanic. This game horrible. F2P or completely shut down by 2013.

[Bloodstealer]

Cut scene leveling.

Directed Storyline leveling

The least painful leveling this old veteran has ever experienced

Companions

Companion back stories

No more farming

Housing that does not clog up the environment

Housing in the form of ships

space combat

Diversity in leveling via the space combat scenario

Slotted gear and the ability to maintain it via mods

Duel ACs, each with three trees

Legacy

 

The list goes on an on. Some of their ideas are actually revolutionary. The problem is not in the lack of innovation but the ability, or willingness of some to identify it. As you will see here, there will shortly be a random poster breaking my list down in an attempt to "prove" that none of it exists. ;p

 

Interesting list of examples... I woulkdnt like to think that none exists and certainly dont wish to flame/trol your own beleifs.. but your list to me does not really show much in regards to innovative...

 

Story - yes I agree its a step ahead than any other MMO I have played so a big thumbs up.. just lacks longevity imo (at the moment)

 

Leveling - Very strange take on this but if you think making leveling easier is innovative then I think we will have to agree to disagree sorry.

 

Companions - Errm nope they are nothing new.. its just more prevalent in Single Player formats... an area where BW is very strong.

Companion Stories - Yep Ill give you this one it could of been - except its not really the story thats the hook.. its the affection for crafting and now legacy opener... the companion story is nothing nore than a space bar waiting to be crushed... if you dont see affection points how many times do you hit escape and re-try to get your points... where is this innovative, I call it mickey mouse fluff.

 

No more farming.... huhhhh where????... I am wondering what it is you think grinding is... even the plat farmers have had a field day up until last week... and that's likely only a temporary deterent. If you mean not be able to utilise macros to farm, then yes I will go along with you there.. but I dont think thats what you meant really

 

Housing (covering both your points)- - Errm not innovative at all sorry... my 9 yr old plays on a kids social game called PANFU (been around for years)... Own housing has been arouind for donkeys... but yes we have are own SPACESHIP .. but we cant customise it like games allow you to.... sorry you missed wildly here, except yes its an instanced area for you only... though hardly an innovative in game achievement.

 

Space Combat - Could of been innovative had it not been designed on rails and is hugely repetitive and nothing more than an in game mini game event... there are others out there.. good or bad they are out there.

Diversity - How is this in any way innovative... its just utilising mini games and grind features to help you reach a waypoint, in this case lvl cap for endgame content - Pretty much every MMO out there does the same thing.. sure they dont have space ships persay but you are not looking beyond the pixels in front of your face....

 

Slotted Gear - DDO as an exaple has been using slotted gear options for maybe 2-3 years now... upgradeable options have been around for a long time tbh... however you do make some argument here in the fact that other games tend to allow you to customise and upgrade to a point ie colours, patterns,, shapes, and stats/ abilites (Epic gearing comes to mind for me), but they dont offer continual enhancing like SWTOR does so I will conceed a half point on this one... a good argument you make here.

 

Dual AC's - Hmmm without the ability to multi-class yet, this is nothing more than a min/max tool - many MMO's have been offering this for many, many moons .... except they already utilise the dual class abilities.... the difference is SWTOR have made it easy to pick and choose then re-spec if you want to go again and again with a different set of skill tree elements.... but you cant turn your consular into a trooper hybrid etc etc... (not saying you want a consular / trooper mix.. you understand )

 

Legacy/ Skill trees etc.. .. sure Legacy offers something that could become innovative but in its current depth/form really isnt anything more than what epic levels or true resurection formats offer in other games, especially as its all obtainable via in game purchase (thats pandaing to the anti-grind brigade who expect everything to be available instatly to them because heaven forbid they should have an inferior toon to others that worked for it) but heading in the right direction.. just needs more time and player buy in - - that though in itself is the tricky part cos time is the killer of all things... MMO see this more than most imo.

 

So to come back at you I see very little in SWTOR that isnt already out there and is merely just utilising pixels to make it look differnt.. but experience suggests it feels just the same.

However there is nothing wrong in this.. its wehat every game does lets be honest... what I find dissapointing is what SWTOR does'nt offer that others have been offering for many moons.. things like Guild Housing, personal customisation, LFG, Server transfers, Voicechat (that isnt reserved to guild only vent / teamspeak - especially with Rated WZ etc incoming to game soooon ) and likely many other things others over the years have found useful in game.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Bloodstealer

[BJWyler]

And there's nothing wrong with that, I like a game that works well. I'm just tired of "It's innovative" without any real explanation of how they think it is.

 

I'm right there with you. There are many things about GW2 I am/was intrigued about or liking, but after the Beta tests, found it's just not an enjoyable game for me. It doesn't compel me the way the original did and the way SWTOR does now. It's a good game to be sure, but just not the kind of game I want to play.

 

@Blackardin - we were talking about GW2 and it's supposed "innovation", not SWTOR.

 

@Terelius - I do play as much as I possibly can. But there are times where I simply cannot just pop in and out of the game, or want to do something in game that is going to take more time than I have, therefore I pop in and out of the forums in between doing the RL duties to read about and discuss the game. Tonight, as a matter of fact, I have at least 6-7 hours of solid game time planned. The rest of the day today needs to be focused on other things, but like I said, I am popping in an out here as I can.

 

BJ

Edited May 7, 2012 by BJWyler

[Bloodstealer]

I'm right there with you. There are many things about GW2 I am/was intrigued about or liking, but after the Beta tests, found it's just not an enjoyable game for me. It doesn't compel me the way the original did and the way SWTOR does now. It's a good game to be sure, but just not the kind of game I want to play.

 

@Blackardin - we were talking about GW2 and it's supposed "innovation", not SWTOR.

 

BJ

 

I think this about sums it all up really... Its a personal like and dislike that we all discuss and argue to death on every forum out there.. I am guilty like many of us in doing this... though in the case of SWTOR I was pretty defensive of it for the first few moths cos it was new and needed time... but the further into the game I get , the more I feel is either missing or uninteresting... but its personal to me and others may/ and do see it different.

The trouble is the MMO industry has such alot of choice out there, but few are trully what I percieve as innovative more copycat with some graphical fleshing to make it all seem different.

The problem is the wow factor (no pun intended) tends to wear off and the pixels that covered up the copycating begin to fade away... so what your actually left with is the same old same old you played in "insert MMO name here"

 

Cant blame GW2, SWTOR, WOW or any other game for that.. its just how it works I guess... SWTOR brought a new voiceover concept to us, that for me is the only possible level of innovation i see, but that in itself brings its own set of issues, and likely others will copycat it too in years to come... so maybe innovation is relaly only to be measured by those inch by inch improvemnts in games.. not the in your face completely new things we all expect.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Bloodstealer

[MasterKayote]

Id like to know what do many of you find lacking in this game. I see absolutely no difference between SWTOR and other MMO's as far as content goes. No other game has a fair share of World PvP ... none, theyre all non-existent. Warzones/Battlegrounds are here, all games have a handful of maps to participate which you do over and over again grinding whatever points it gives for gear. Endgame PvE? Hmm ... Heroics? Checked! Ops/Raids? Checked! Mundane dailies

 

Id really like to know what the hell keeps so many of you entertained in other MMO's for so long that makes the grass seem so much greener over there for you. What kept everyone so into MC that it lasted for 5 months as the only raid in WoW. Hell even Cata had 9 Heroics you could do vs. 8(?) in TOR. Three raids in TOR vs the 4 available in Cata? Really? We're complaining about that? Gimme a break.

 

I know it isnt the leveling/alt game ... because this is the ONLY MMO where there is at least SOME degree of uniqueness in what you can do while leveling. Choices, dialogue options, class story ... yeah, theyre not big steps forward in terms of fun, but it beats doing the same exact thing over and over and over again for every single alt like you have in other MMO's.

 

So what is it? The ez-mode addons? The LFG Tool? Dual Spec? Really? Ill admit, they'd be nice ... but that is FAR something that makes or breaks a game.

 

hmm ..... I dunno maybe they should add Poke-battles and panda's ...

[Frostvein]

I think we're nearly on the same page here.

 

People will always leave because they dislike the game or are bored.

 

I agree. But, if the game were better, not as many people would be leaving or would have left which would have caused less of this -

 

But after the first waves of "quits", most of what we're seeing now is people leaving because their servers are "dead / light" and thus lack the social / community interaction, reflecting on FPs, HCs, HMs, GTN, etc. The #1 thing everyone is complaining about these past few weeks is empty servers and lack of transfers and LFG tool.

 

Aka, you aren't treating the root cause of the problem - too many people left because they didn't like the game, and the people that left are screwed by it and are leaving as well.

[BJWyler]

You know, I was on the fanboi bandwagon until this past weekend. I purchased a different game and I fell in love with it.

 

You want to know what is truly killing Star Wars: The Old Republic?

 

The Hero Engine.

 

 

I should never see 20-25 FPS in any part of the game with an i7 2700k @ 3.5 Ghz CPU / 8 GB G. Skill RAM / EvGA GTX 560 Ti OC GPU / 120 GB Adata SSD / Win 7 64-bit HP.

 

I saw this on Fleet and in Warfronts. Sure, it would stabilize around 30-40 FPS (which is fine by me) but there is absolutely no damn reason for a system like this one to ever get this low on a game like this.

 

After playing the other new release this weekend, I realized just how bad the Hero Engine is. Sorry Bioware/EA. I am afraid you've lost 3 more customers.

 

Sounds to me that there might be something on your end then. I have a laptop that a couple years old that isn't as beefy as what you listed, and have not had any performance issues with the game. In fact, I can usually fire up a VM while playing and not have a hitch. The only time I notice performance issues is when I attach a high-res external monitor to the system - every once in a while then, I will see bad FPS, but it also does not surprise me, and sometimes it's a result of the BIOS throttling the CPU due to heat anyway.

 

Id like to know what do many of you find lacking in this game. I see absolutely no difference between SWTOR and other MMO's as far as content goes. No other game has a fair share of World PvP ... none, theyre all non-existent. Warzones/Battlegrounds are here, all games have a handful of maps to participate which you do over and over again grinding whatever points it gives for gear. Endgame PvE? Hmm ... Heroics? Checked! Ops/Raids? Checked! Mundane dailies

 

Id really like to know what the hell keeps so many of you entertained in other MMO's for so long that makes the grass seem so much greener over there for you. What kept everyone so into MC that it lasted for 5 months as the only raid in WoW. Hell even Cata had 9 Heroics you could do vs. 8(?) in TOR. Three raids in TOR vs the 4 available in Cata? Really? We're complaining about that? Gimme a break.

 

I know it isnt the leveling/alt game ... because this is the ONLY MMO where there is at least SOME degree of uniqueness in what you can do while leveling. Choices, dialogue options, class story ... yeah, theyre not big steps forward in terms of fun, but it beats doing the same exact thing over and over and over again for every single alt like you have in other MMO's.

 

So what is it? The ez-mode addons? The LFG Tool? Dual Spec? Really? Ill admit, they'd be nice ... but that is FAR something that makes or breaks a game.

 

hmm ..... I dunno maybe they should add Poke-battles and panda's ...

 

Don't hold your breath - I am still waiting for anyone complaining about the lack of end game in these forums to explain exactly what end game they want in the game (that's different than every other MMOs end game, which is what we have here).

 

And your last sentence - how true. No doubt we have many SWG ex-pats here who want the game to be SWG 2.0. We have the WoW children who want it to be "WoW in space." Saw this all the time in GW1 - people wanted to take what the game was and make it into a clone of their previous favorite game instead of realizing that they bought the wrong game.

Edited May 7, 2012 by BJWyler

[diamondking]

Anyone who ever called this game a "WoW killer" is a fool. Only WoW getting to the point where people don't want to play it anymore will kill WoW.

 

Amazingly enough there's room in the world for two (or more) large, popular MMOs. You don't "win" anything by playing the more popular game. And flaws or not SWTOR is expanding. So I think it'll survive GW2.

 

Honestly, is doomsaying so much fun?

 

Amazing that people don't recognice that there are other mmo's than WoW. In most people's mind it's "if this does not kill wow, it must be garbage".

 

But I do find it hillarious discovering it's mainly the same people, who right after release, was complaining about the game. Like eating at the same fastfood restaurant every day, complaining everytime you recieve your order. Amazing what some people spend their life doing.

[Bloodstealer]

Id like to know what do many of you find lacking in this game. I see absolutely no difference between SWTOR and other MMO's as far as content goes. No other game has a fair share of World PvP ... none, theyre all non-existent. Warzones/Battlegrounds are here, all games have a handful of maps to participate which you do over and over again grinding whatever points it gives for gear. Endgame PvE? Hmm ... Heroics? Checked! Ops/Raids? Checked! Mundane dailies

 

Id really like to know what the hell keeps so many of you entertained in other MMO's for so long that makes the grass seem so much greener over there for you. What kept everyone so into MC that it lasted for 5 months as the only raid in WoW. Hell even Cata had 9 Heroics you could do vs. 8(?) in TOR. Three raids in TOR vs the 4 available in Cata? Really? We're complaining about that? Gimme a break.

 

I know it isnt the leveling/alt game ... because this is the ONLY MMO where there is at least SOME degree of uniqueness in what you can do while leveling. Choices, dialogue options, class story ... yeah, theyre not big steps forward in terms of fun, but it beats doing the same exact thing over and over and over again for every single alt like you have in other MMO's.

 

So what is it? The ez-mode addons? The LFG Tool? Dual Spec? Really? Ill admit, they'd be nice ... but that is FAR something that makes or breaks a game.

 

hmm ..... I dunno maybe they should add Poke-battles and panda's ...

 

A good set of questions and a fair points... except when was the last time you actually saw anyone in those Open World areas you speak of... with the exception of Illum which is/was simply a broken record.. very broken. I for one have never been engaged by anyone whilst in Outlaws Den on Taatoine or on Alderaan or Quesh or Hoth..... so where are these Open World scenarios you speak of.

Choices hmm ok... story - solo, chopices.. affect you and your alt, not what happens in quest/raid, PVP - SOLO, Space combat - SOLO.. so I tihnk what your saying this MMO offers, I say this SP RPG offers until you absolutely need help at endgame... but by then many players have grown bored already and have simply left

How many World Boss Ops groups have you filled in under 2 hrs or any Ops Grp outside of guild - ... unless your lucky to be rolling on one of the 3-4 Heavy pop servers... You know the even I thought was great but did many of us actually get to complete the whole event with all Codex entries filled... NADA.. trying to get an OPS grp to take on the 3 world bosses was like pulling teeth.. and the longer it goes on the less people engage and the atitude becomes more and more solo biased with large parts of the game ignored.. lets be honest you dont actually need to run Flashpoints and Heroics to get to endgame anyway and when you get there you just go back and walk thor them for the gear, if its really that important to you by then.

Certain tools would likely of alleviated some of that.. but are far from being the solution to the main problems in the game... that is purely down to how its been designed to encourage solo play from 1-50 which lets be honest is where the game is based currently.. afterall its story based so endgame fluff is nothing more than gear and credit grind it has nothing to do with the real emphasis on the game itself, otherwsie the tools you say are fluff would of been implemented prior to launch... only my take on it is that its worked against BW and players are bored of the empty lonely feeling in game and are dissapearing.. so to fire fight it they are introducing these things finally... but the servers are too empy for these tools to really have much impact now imo.

 

I wonder what was worse... seeing queue times to access the game or seeing queue times to run content in game ... tricky one that... but had the game beed designed around more than solo play and had better performance in game when runing in Ops grps etc (al la FPS) then likely the audience would of been more community spirited and .. well bigger

[Wolfeisberg]

I've played GW2. The PvE in that game is terrible. Polished, but very grindy. The 'main story' part is uninspired and has very poor voice acting. Some people may mock the dialog choices in TOR, but the lack of any choices in GW2 is very noticeable and very annoying. The non-story portion of GW2 PvE (ie: the vast majority of PvE) feels like you're just wandering from place to place for no real reason, getting 'heart quests' where you just grind away at that area for a while until you move onto the next.

 

The dynamic quests are different, but that's both good and bad. Good in that there can be some epic, chaotic fun when there are a lot of people around (pretty much the only fun in PvE) but bad in that they just start randomly and the way scaling works means that if there are people in your area who are trying to do their own thing and are avoiding the event, the people doing it will likely get flattened since the game assumes everyone in the area will participate. It also means don't ever go afk in most areas of the world or you could have an event spawn on you randomly while you're away.

 

The game also has enormous money sinks. If you die (which happens a *lot* and you can never outlevel an area to make it easier since you automatically scale back down to lower level areas) you not only have to pay to get your armor repaired, you actually have to pay just to rez yourself if no one else is around to rez you. On top of that, they've included a lot of 'incentives' to get people to use their cash shop, like the tiny bank that's shared between all your characters (which is 5 *total*, unless you spend real $$ to buy more slots).

 

I will say GW2 did one thing right, and that's the PvP. So much better than the stunfest TOR calls PvP. GW2 has no dedicated healers, everyone has pretty good survivability and the option for some defense skills, and there is very little CC outside of snares. *If* I end up getting GW2 (and that's a big *if*), it'll be to ignore the terrible PvE completely and have it for some occasional PvP, just like with GW1. Either way GW2 will have no impact on whether or not I continue to play TOR, which right now I plan to.

 

So to all the people to think GW2 is some savior MMO that will destroy everything in its wake, by all means buy it. And when you're disappointed with that game too, they have forums for you to whine on as well. Right now their beta forums are just like the TOR beta forums where: mostly positive with people looking forward to the game. After release, it'll be just like TOR's forums, and WoW's forums before that, and the old IGN DAoC and EQ forums before that all the way back to the beginning of forums. Same as it ever was.

 

You are wrong about how the scaling works in GW2. It looks who is actively participating in that particular event If people are standing around just watching, it won't count them. If they are fighting something else that is not related to the event, it will not count them. If they leave after participating, but don't stick around it will scale it self to that 1 less person who just left.

[Serahn]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/269533/old-republic-will-be-biggest-mmo-failure-ever/

 

Read it, that was two years old, at that point was it too late to change things already?

 

Not one statement was validated with any sort of tangible information.

 

"SWTOR will be the biggest failure of all time." But yet there is nothing to say why. The employee says bioware and Lucas are panicking, but he doesn't say how.

 

Just more sensational internet really. You can say whatever you want on the net, and it requires little validation or proof. Probably some 9 buck an hour tech, who got fired for being late 8 times. Now he's mad, and wants to hurt someone/something because he feels he got cheated.

 

I laugh at anyone who takes this seriously.

[Wolfeisberg]

So how much did the game cost to make?

 

I cannot find an answer so I'm going to say an official answer has likely never been released. I found four different prices

 

$80 million http://uk.gamespot.com/news/star-wars-the-old-republic-has-cost-ea-80-million-analyst-6312400 which looks like the analyst making the claim tried to work from the EA earnings report from 2011

 

$150 million just some references found of people believeing this to be the figure but never any sources named and I cannot find anyway

 

$200 million http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/121/1216969p1.html source was from LA Times but never backed up by any reference so seems like numbers plucked out of thin air for a news story rather than a reference point

 

$300 million from EA Louse the only one that was proven to be a lie and the whole thing is fake.

 

$500 million http://www.vg247.com/2012/01/17/analyst-ea-has-invested-close-to-500-million-in-swtor/ from a Cowen & Co analyst

 

 

The only thing we know for definate is no figure was ever released for how much the game costs. This also means anyone saying OMG the game cost this much and they didn't do this is just a drama fairy.

 

I wouldn't doubt they hit $300 million if you count marketing costs, which to investors is included in the costs of the game.

[Wolfeisberg]

Which is why so many people say they'll be leaving TOR, a game with supposedly no end game content, for GW2 which is a game that will have.... no end game content.

 

Considering that end game content tends to be for the minority of players, this leads to leveling content being the majority of the game play for subscribers.

[Alkiii]

Sounds to me that there might be something on your end then. I have a laptop that a couple years old that isn't as beefy as what you listed, and have not had any performance issues with the game. In fact, I can usually fire up a VM while playing and not have a hitch. The only time I notice performance issues is when I attach a high-res external monitor to the system - every once in a while then, I will see bad FPS, but it also does not surprise me, and sometimes it's a result of the BIOS throttling the CPU due to heat anyway.

 

Computer is brand new (custom built) with only the OS and SWTOR on it. It's not that I'm getting bad frames all the time, but every now and again, they will dip to sub 30 on Fleet or during a Warfront. CPU never goes over 62C and the GPU never goes over 80C. There is absolutely NO reason that a game such as this one should even come close to bringing a system mine down to sub 30, even if it is for a split second or two.

 

The Engine in this game is bad. I didn't realize how bad until I started playing a different "new release" MMO.

[AnoriOlko]

The voice acting and combat is great. But the game fails so badly in all other aspects.

[Wolfeisberg]

And yet conveniently forgetting the fact that MMOs are in a constant state of change and the SOP for sub based models is to roll content out over time. If there are other games out there that have "end games" different than the type we have here (essentially dungeon grinding, which has been the end game for every other MMO I have played), and are within the first 5-6 months of their existence, please let us know what they are so we can all go enjoy them as well.

 

 

 

They aren't. They are pulling a Microsoft by taking the best of everyone else's ideas and tossing them into their product. Anet's product is much better than MS' to be certain, and they have done a better job marketing the product, but it is by no means innovative, simply iterative, or derivitive depending on how you look at it.

 

BJ

 

Innovation and invention are 2 different things.

Innovation differs from invention in that innovation refers to the use of a new idea or method, whereas invention refers more directly to the creation of the idea or method itself.

 

I think people get Innovation confused with invention.

 

Example: Warhammer Online invents the public quest system for MMOs. Rift practically does the same thing = not innovative. Arenanet takes the public quest idea and expands on it, they make it more dynamic, and they make it the main way to do questing = this equals innovation for the MMO industry.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Wolfeisberg

[arestesian]

 

 

Because PvPers only understand epeen and showing off how their L33t Skilz make them better than every one else in the universe. They have no concept that most people don't care one wit about them or their ability to push buttons on a keyboard.

 

 

 

Counldn't have put the points you made better myself - saved my fingers a bit of reply posting work.

 

BJ

 

Why the hate for PVPers?

Now I'm saying this with all the caveats and disclaimers of 'I'm someone who enjoys and participates in PVP', so yes my opinion may be biased.

 

First thing's first Those crazy obsessive min/maxing lunatic PVPers, I agree they can be (and very often are) tools.

But they're not everybody that PVPs. Most people that I know of that PVP and myself do it for the hypothetical 'golden pvp' moment. I've seen it happen in battlegrounds/arenas, but slightly more often in world pvp. Chasing people down, baiting them into mobs, forcing them off of cliffs, it's a lot more then button spamming and can be a bit vicious, but generally it's fun. There's a bit of a feeling of achievement in beating someone who had you dead to rights.

 

The big problem seems to be twofold. The stuff that makes world admin fun/challenging is the same stuff that gankers use when they're monstering low level characters.

The second bit is the stats, there seems to be a big push design wise to run a second set of stats that apply to pvp. And when that starts getting messed around with people complain loudly (right, wrong, or otherwise) and often.

 

Now that statement has been based off of past experience not experience in this game, mostly because world pvp is more then a little jacked up rith now (I'm looking at you Illium (or however you spell it)).

The epeen issues seems to be tied more to the bs then actual pvp; ganking and corpse camping for example. I don't know anyone who honestly claims that is what pvp is, anymore then anyone would claim a violent mugging is part of the tourists trip to Camden, NJ. The dishonest claims used to justify being horrible to people, separate matter.

 

short version: PVP isn't all bad, and people that define it by the worst case are just being a bit lazy in my opinion. It would be like defining PVE, as nothing but map glitching and item duping since the entire point is to get the best gear as fast as possible.

Edited May 7, 2012 by arestesian

[Jeul]

Actually, it plays rather well as a solo game outsde of the occasional Plague. New content; able to examine dialogue for the desired response, etc. Thanks for asking!

 

Ok... like I said - I still enjoy certain moments of TOR and my levelling experience was a ( mostly ) good one, so if you think you're talking to a 'hater', you're mistaken. TOR, as a strictly single player game, is a really bad one. Hear me out - It is purposefully meted out in very long, arduous segments that are there to simulate the size of the world ( orbital stations that serve NO purpose whatsoever, planets that increase in size exponentially when you get a speeder, etc ). About 30% of the missions ( if not more ) are useless by yourself ( heroics ). Character choice has little to no impact on the story - what little bit it changes is usually one line in a conversation, after which the npcs continue in their usual programmed response.

 

Even compared to Baldur's Gate, this game ( as a single player experience ) is shallow and unrefined. Pretty, but vapid.

 

Again, I say that those that say that their server population is good, you're either lying, delusional, or you are one of the lucky ones. To most of us, the population is so far down, it makes the game look like a ghost town. Add to that the lack of 50 content, the missing ranked warzones, and the overall lack of polish?

 

By the time they start fixing things, it will be too late. I want to like this game more and continue to play. They have dropped the ball big time. Nowadays, being stagnant when your game is floundering is not acceptable - there are too many other options out there. I hope I'm wrong and this game ends up kicking butt. I wouldn't bet on it, though.

 

Meanwhile, in Tera general chat -

 

"The sad thing is, arguing with fanbois on the forums was more entertaining than their 300 million dollar single player MMO from 2008"

 

I just thought that this sig was so funny - and true.

[WickedDjinn]

While all this hysteria is waaaay overblown a discussion, reasoned and level headed, about Swtors design shouldn't be out of the question.

 

While we don't know the real numbers, clearly a great deal of money went into the voice over budget.

 

But do cinematic storylines and great voice acting really matter in the context of an MMO? Does it work in that framework?

 

I'm not sure it does. It seems the theme park MMO and single player rpg elements only serve to interfere with each other. In that sense the core argument of the article is correct. The game might have been better served with less emphasis on fully voiced storylines and more on the actual game.

[spellegren]

But do cinematic storylines and great voice acting really matter in the context of an MMO?

 

For me it was cool for the first half of my first play through, after that it just became cumbersome and time consuming. Even when playing a new class I barely listen to the voice work, I read the subtitles, get the gist of the quest and press-on.

[Iron_Lord]

For me it was cool for the first half of my first play through, after that it just became cumbersome and time consuming. Even when playing a new class I barely listen to the voice work, I read the subtitles, get the gist of the quest and press-on.

 

Yeah, funny how that works... At first I listened to everything, now I just SPACEBAR through...