Please Fix this class

[Agonisis]

Yes, im QQing, But i am sick and tired of playing a stealth class where i can be seen at 30 yrds away. I constantly get kicked out of stealth for no reason, and cannot get out of combat for at least 20-30 sec. I don't care you nerfed our damage, but the only thing we still had was stealth, and you screwed that up to. Here's a news flash Bioware, its not teams of Operatives that made people unsub, it's bad game mechanics and needless nerfs that make people unsub. Fix this class and the stealth system for ops and sins or i foresee a few hundred more quitting for GW2 and Terra.

[ktkenshinx]

Title of the thread should really be "Please fix stealth". I personally don't like the damage complaints; Ops is working out great for me, and I'm a concealment spec. That said, I do play exclusively PvP, so the numbers work out a little differently than in PvE.

 

Stealth, however, is a problem across the board. I too suffer from random unstealthing, and I am often frustrated to get spotted dozens of yards away by people many levels lower than I am. I understand that stealth is one of those mechanics that can be frustrating and game breaking, but in its current form, it just isn't helping us out as much as it should be.

[Escarrabutxaques]

Random unstealthing can be caused by the rakghoul plague. In warzones it doesnt play animation of your character vomiting and doesnt stun you, but it will unstealth you (something that should be fixed. Event is over but the plague is still there).

Evasion dispel mechanics should be reworked too, Im sick of dots Im unable to dispel, even with my evasion (sniper/sorc ones if they pick the right talent), Im sick of respawning already in combat and being stuck in combat for 30+ seconds for no apparent reason sometimes.

It's just ruining the fun of playing this class. While in 1v1 it is still enjoyable, in team enviroment well... Sometimes it's a nightmare. Unforgiving energy regen system+stealth bugs+screwed up cds=stuck in combat with no means to escape, spaming rifle shot because everything is on cd/you are low on energy and unable to do anything else... It's not enjoyable at all.

Here is what I don't get: Developers aren't happy with the operatives (constant nerfs and changes to the class), players aren't happy with the operatives (constant cries for nerf) and even the same operatives aren't happy with class design. So, maybe concentrate resources on redisigning this class (or at least concealment/lethality trees) instead of coding useless legacy features noone cares about (Sorry Bioware, it's true).

[teemoor]

instead of coding useless legacy features noone cares about (Sorry Bioware, it's true).

 

Tru dat.

[Damatheus]

I do not have a problem with stealth, or being seen by mobs 30 yards away. I've never had this problem except where expected, IE: trying to stealth up to melee range on a boss.

 

I continuously to use stealth to bypass mobs inside quest areas, and I rarely have to pop my stealth enhancement skill.

[Trauglodyte]

As far as getting spotted yards away by players below your level, remember that stealth in the 10-49 bracket also gets affected by Bolster. Does it suck? Hell yes it does.

 

My bigger issues is losing stealth because of factors that you can't control. These include getting damage via AoE Darts from BHs/Troopers, knock backs, etc. If the class is dependent upon the opener, why is it that our stealth is so fragile?

[txfooz]

You can count me as 1 that quit for Tera.

 

I may come back if they ever fix the class, which I'm not holding my breath for.

[Ahebish]

Just be like every other hardcore gamer and roll an OP class like I did. It makes the game tollerable until BW figures out they screw'd up this class.

[Obtena]

I think these deficiencies could be addressed by implementing a stance system similar to other classes. In fact, other classes are seeing advantages from that added layer of effects while Agents are not. It almost seems like it's a missing implementation for this class.

[Agonisis]

I think these deficiencies could be addressed by implementing a stance system similar to other classes. In fact, other classes are seeing advantages from that added layer of effects while Agents are not. It almost seems like it's a missing implementation for this class.

 

i thought about that, like making Acid blade a stance over a cast. But then every attack would have it and people would cry for nerfs...sigh

[Obtena]

I wasn't really thinking in terms of assigning a particular existing effect to a stance. I'm just thinking that if BW granted agents stances similar to other classes, every operative would still be able to access attacks and effects, it's just that the stance would allow you to specialize by adding something to that setup.

 

This thread is a good example. A stealth stance could grant some enhancement while being in stealth on stealth-based attacks or resilience to outside stealth-breaking attacks. If stealth is your bread and butter for a particular spec, then it makes sense to grant some advantage to it through a stance. Then players can decide to use it or maintain some generalist setup. I just find it odd that this stance concept is deployed for the majority of other classes and not for Agents.

[Iyasu]

We are attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis. Good and proper. Edited April 30, 2012 by Iyasu

[Ryemfoh]

We are attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis. Good and proper.

 

Heh - very good sir. Poppycock, but good nonetheless.

[plic]

I think these deficiencies could be addressed by implementing a stance system similar to other classes. In fact, other classes are seeing advantages from that added layer of effects while Agents are not. It almost seems like it's a missing implementation for this class.

 

mr_ruiz: Smuggler/Operative Question: As the only classes without a stance/form of some sort (even all companions have a couple), is there any plan to add something like that to these classes for additional utility? If not, why?

 

Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer): I'm personally a fan of stances for how they communicate to others and how they help add structure to the already burgeoning character advancement options, but those are developer reasons to love stances. As a player, it's nice to be able to have a sense of someone's spec at a glance by seeing their stance, but for me, the appeal ends there as long as the absence of a stance doesn't mean I'm "missing" something. To answer your question specifically, adding stances to these classes is certainly an option in the future, it just needs to be appropriate and serve a purpose. We don't want to introduce a mechanic for no other reason than to have it.

 

and there is that ultra ambiguous answer from bioware regarding ops/scounds....they dont care about us at all.

 

anyway the acidblade stance would be cool, in order to cull the outcries make it a stacking dot on target does X dmg over 10 seconds and a stacking buff X% armor pen on op. each stack up to 5. max of 40% arm pen. and however much damage.

 

or another idea i had was giving us different acids...like a rogue, but we'd have an armor pen acid that did the original 50% armor pen, a dot acid that would count for weak blast and cull, and some form of kolto acid for healing...though i guess thats our "stances"...oh well...thats my thoughts

[Gomigakari]

Yes, im QQing, But i am sick and tired of playing a stealth class where i can be seen at 30 yrds away. I constantly get kicked out of stealth for no reason, and cannot get out of combat for at least 20-30 sec. I don't care you nerfed our damage, but the only thing we still had was stealth, and you screwed that up to. Here's a news flash Bioware, its not teams of Operatives that made people unsub, it's bad game mechanics and needless nerfs that make people unsub. Fix this class and the stealth system for ops and sins or i foresee a few hundred more quitting for GW2 and Terra.

 

Could you be more specific? For me, stealth wasn't that great until I specced 2-3 points into it and now I can walk past mobs of the same level pretty closely w/o being seen. I admit that it is weaker than rogue stealth, but rogues also don't have guns and have to chase down their targets.

 

My dps is working out great, but I have noticed that the OPs class is not a faceroll class and requires skill, timing, and adaptability to play well. If not played well, you will die a lot. It's not a class that can be played sloppily.

[Agonisis]

Could you be more specific? For me, stealth wasn't that great until I specced 2-3 points into it and now I can walk past mobs of the same level pretty closely w/o being seen. I admit that it is weaker than rogue stealth, but rogues also don't have guns and have to chase down their targets.

 

My dps is working out great, but I have noticed that the OPs class is not a faceroll class and requires skill, timing, and adaptability to play well. If not played well, you will die a lot. It's not a class that can be played sloppily.

 

more pvp than pve, other than raiding, conceal ops are fine in pve IMO

[Obtena]

That answer from BW devs is a real shocker ... IMO any class that doesn't have a stance concept IS missing something ... the BENEFITS of have the buffs from a stance concept. I don't see that the trees for non-stance classes are buffed in such a way to make up for the lack of stance benefits so that's what's missing. I honestly don't see how a dev can sit and say that classes without stances are not missing out. We are missing out massively from that concept.

[Ryemfoh]

That answer from BW devs is a real shocker ... IMO any class that doesn't have a stance concept IS missing something ... the BENEFITS of have the buffs from a stance concept. I don't see that the trees for non-stance classes are buffed in such a way to make up for the lack of stance benefits so that's what's missing. I honestly don't see how a dev can sit and say that classes without stances are not missing out. We are missing out massively from that concept.

 

Sorcerer/Sage also doesn't have a stance. Stance system's aren't required for every class in the same way that gap closers/knockbacks aren't required for every class. Sure it might be nice to have, but this class is designed not to need one. Stance systems are probably more widely used in ToR than other MMO's that I've played but almost all others have had at least 1 class with a stance concept and I've never seen people saying those classes had an advantage because of it, it's just a different system (like energy vs force)

[Obtena]

My shock at the dev statement really comes down to the fact that it's pretty clear that stances are another layer of complexity that is available to making choices on a class even more interesting. That whole statement points to the thing that bugs me the most about SWTOR: If the devs push development of classes into one-dimensional setups for optimization, why do they bother with the illusion of allowing players to choose talents?

 

I'm not going to argue if it's needed to be better (I can't as a healing operative) but I will argue it's needed to give more flexibility to the class, especially for people that want to play in the hybrid build space.

 

All a little off topic but if BW needs a reason to implement a stance for operatives, fixing the weak points with stealth might be one of them.

[Dcayd]

Stances, really? I play 4 classes regularly, 3 with stances. You know how much complexity it adds to those classes? Zero, zip, nada. They are toggle and forget abilities. The talent trees for those 3 classes are built around specific stances. If you think it somehow adds complexity to the class then I'm surprised you don't think having to apply Acid Blade somehow makes operatives more complex.

 

Operatives have problems, I will agree to that, but before Bioware goes adding pointless abilities to the class I'd rather see them fix the bugs plaguing our current ones. If stealth isn't meant to be perfect then make sure we can still be viable when we get pulled out of it. Fix the combat not dropping bug in warzones, something that affects every class, and prevents operatives from stealthing and classes without self heals from using their ooc heal. Fix our horrible energy system. Fix the current problems before adding stances that will probably just add more bugs.

[jbuschell]

Just gather a team of operatives and stun lock George Zoeller Untill he gives into demands and changes ops

[Obtena]

Stances, really? I play 4 classes regularly, 3 with stances. You know how much complexity it adds to those classes? Zero, zip, nada. They are toggle and forget abilities.

 

That's simply because of the way BW has implemented stances for those classes and the fact that there is no REASON to switch stances right now as long as there is no multi-spec capability. That doesn't imply how it could be implemented for operatives or it's usefulness for playing different aspects of a class. When (if) BW introduce multispecing feature, people will switch to whatever is needed in their current situation, maybe even on the fly during an encounter, who knows.

 

I believe the point of the thread is to fix the stealthy aspects of operatives (and even other stealth classes). Introduction of a cleverly implemented stance system could do that.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Obtena

[Dcayd]

They could fix stealth by doing all the work of bringing stances to the class, or they could just, you know, adjust a value or 2 in their code that would make stealth a little bit stronger.

 

Simplest solutions usually work best.

[giovaneche]

I think stealth is working as intended. This is not WoW, you need to learn that stealth is not invisibility. You have talents to improve your stealth efficiency and your stealth detection, use it if you need. OP is a class of opportunity, stay stealth until a good window of opportunity opens. Kill you opponent with two or three attacks and go stealth again.

[Obtena]

They could fix stealth by doing all the work of bringing stances to the class, or they could just, you know, adjust a value or 2 in their code that would make stealth a little bit stronger.

 

Simplest solutions usually work best.

 

That makes being in stealth stronger. I don't think that's the crux of the problem. I agree I had an easier time when I put 3 talents to get 3 more stealth levels but my stealth was broken just as often by various effects and even in-inexplicably in some cases. In general, I would like to see stealth changed in this game to be more reliable. If it's truly the gap-closing, escaping, and requirement for stealth attacks that it should be, it should reflect those things.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Obtena