What Sent/Mar spec and change has contributed to them becoming op?

[Tigalo]

Let's actually compare healing before, to healing now then, shall we?

 

Full BM pre 1.2 gave +12.62% healing.

BM in 1.2 gives 12.27% healing

Full WH in 1.2 gives +13.25% healing, which is more than it was even possible to get before.

 

So, with the best PVP gear in play, Damage has increased ~2.5% and Healing has increased ~0.6% meaning that damage has gained a net ~1.9% increase compared to healing from expertise.

As expertise continues to rise, the bonus to healing will continue to rise and damage and damage reduction will continue to cancel each other out.

So, if you want to know why we don't mention healing, it's because healing is an outright bonus - it's gravy and it just gets better as expertise goes up.

Look:

Two people with zero expertise fight each other, neither does any bonus damage to the other, neither has bonus healing.

Two people with full WH gear fight each other, neither does any bonus damage to the other, both have +13.26% healing.

 

The only place where expertise has resulted in a significant decrease in TTK is when someone with high expertise fights someone with low expertise, in which case the person with low expertise has no excuse: If you're wearing Recruit gear and you get attacked by someone in full Warhero, you only take 3.4% extra damage from their expertise.

 

 

And one got buffed, but we'll just pretend that didn't happen because it doesn't support your argument, right?

 

I dont have a 50 operative healer yet, so I cant comment first hand on those, but I have a friend that do, and he agrees with me, that have/had both a sorc and merc healer, its much harder to heal now. If nothing has changed as you claim, why is that?

 

Have you played a healer in pvp both before and after 1.2? Have you even pvped before and after 1.2? If you have, and still claim nothing has changed, then... well, I dont know what to say. Look around this board perhaps, it seems more people claim something has indeed changed.

 

Either way, even if you are mysteriously correct, that make maur/sent even better, as they are the best class to close down healers with 6 sec CD interrupt and healing debuff.

[sensiblepoast]

I love the title of this thread. It reminds me of...

 

have you stopped beating your wife?

[Altruismo]

I dont have a 50 operative healer yet, so I cant comment first hand on those, but I have a friend that do, and he agrees with me, that have/had both a sorc and merc healer, its much harder to heal now. If nothing has changed as you claim, why is that?

 

Have you played a healer in pvp both before and after 1.2? Have you even pvped before and after 1.2? If you have, and still claim nothing has changed, then... well, I dont know what to say. Look around this board perhaps, it seems more people claim something has indeed changed.

 

Either way, even if you are mysteriously correct, that make maur/sent even better, as they are the best class to close down healers with 6 sec CD interrupt and healing debuff.

 

Oh, I'm not saying nothing has changed. I'm saying that expertise is not the reason TTK has changed so dramatically.

The changes to expertise have had minimal impact on TTK - we're talking in the area of 3%.

Personally, I think the biggest impact to TTK has been the reaction of the payer base to the changes in 1.2:

 

1) FoTM players flocked from Sage/sorc (a lot of them hybrid or healing) to Mara/Sent.

2) All the players that were PVPing in full PVE/Rakata, or in heavily PVE modded BM gear, or Cent/Champ mix got screwed by the expertise changes because they started 1.2 with <400-500 expertise and suddenly were getting shredded by Recruits (900 expertise) and unmodded Battlemasters (1100 expertise) who were now doing 10-20% more damage to them than prepatch. At the same time, healers with no expertise were struggling to keep up with this increased damage, and a lot of them rerolled DPS.

3) People just plain not understanding the new expertise numbers, crying DPS >>>>> Healing (like you) and either rerolling DPS or convincing others that they had to.

 

So what is the ultimate outcome after all that?

A large portion of your healer PVP player base has rerolled DPS.

It's not rocket science to work out what happens to TTK after that, and the same would have happened if they all rerolled DPS before the patch.

[Ashaari]

The best evidence for me in any mmo is to look for the make up of opposing pre-mades, Usually you will find that the current OP FOTM class is represented more than the other classes.

 

Last night, on several occasions, I had the dubious pleasure of facing a pre-made which incorporated 6 Marauders and 2 healers - sufficent evidence for me to draw a conclusion as to the current FOTM.

I can honestly say that in many years of playing many mmo's I have never seen such single class dominance in any opposing team before.

 

FOTM is almost always because that class is OP at that point in time.

[Serrowherrow]

The best evidence for me in any mmo is to look for the make up of opposing pre-mades, Usually you will find that the current OP FOTM class is represented more than the other classes.

 

Last night, on several occasions, I had the dubious pleasure of facing a pre-made which incorporated 6 Marauders and 2 healers - sufficent evidence for me to draw a conclusion as to the current FOTM.

I can honestly say that in many years of playing many mmo's I have never seen such single class dominance in any opposing team before.

 

FOTM is almost always because that class is OP at that point in time.

 

Wow, I didn't know they implemented 8-man ques already.

 

I remember this one time, we got a premade of 6 assault vanguards and 2 healers, they simply ran around critting us for 12k each, slaughtering us we got out of spawn then laughing as we hit their heavy armor for no damage at all.

 

The next match was worse, they had 4 31/31/31 spec sentinals who sprouted wings and picked people up and dropped them from the sky.

[Tigalo]

Oh, I'm not saying nothing has changed. I'm saying that expertise is not the reason TTK has changed so dramatically.

The changes to expertise have had minimal impact on TTK - we're talking in the area of 3%.

Personally, I think the biggest impact to TTK has been the reaction of the payer base to the changes in 1.2:

 

1) FoTM players flocked from Sage/sorc (a lot of them hybrid or healing) to Mara/Sent.

2) All the players that were PVPing in full PVE/Rakata, or in heavily PVE modded BM gear, or Cent/Champ mix got screwed by the expertise changes because they started 1.2 with <400-500 expertise and suddenly were getting shredded by Recruits (900 expertise) and unmodded Battlemasters (1100 expertise) who were now doing 10-20% more damage to them than prepatch. At the same time, healers with no expertise were struggling to keep up with this increased damage, and a lot of them rerolled DPS.

3) People just plain not understanding the new expertise numbers, crying DPS >>>>> Healing (like you) and either rerolling DPS or convincing others that they had to.

 

So what is the ultimate outcome after all that?

A large portion of your healer PVP player base has rerolled DPS.

It's not rocket science to work out what happens to TTK after that, and the same would have happened if they all rerolled DPS before the patch.

 

Ok, if we are to assume you are correct, one of my brothers in full WH gear and my other brother in partial BM partial WH gear should be just as durable as before. But, they are not, and that is not because there are more dps on the other team. It is simply because one damage dealer does more damage to them now than before.

 

So:

1) it is because of the expertise changes

or

2) its because of these secret underlaying changes

 

either way, the results are the same, this current patch favor damage dealers, and in those times damage dealers with the best defensive mechanisms are the preferred class.

[PloGreen]

Ok, if we are to assume you are correct, one of my brothers in full WH gear and my other brother in partial BM partial WH gear should be just as durable as before. But, they are not, and that is not because there are more dps on the other team. It is simply because one damage dealer does more damage to them now than before.

 

So:

1) it is because of the expertise changes

or

2) its because of these secret underlaying changes

 

either way, the results are the same, this current patch favor damage dealers, and in those times damage dealers with the best defensive mechanisms are the preferred class.

 

I think its worth noting that the 1.2 changes favour certain dps and ac's more than others. An mmo is never truly balanced, they are constantly evolving for a number of reasons.

 

Pvp was in a better place for most of the classes pre 1.2 though in all honesty. Now its a shame (and this is a personal view, i dont claim to speak for everyone) what its turned into. I do not think its balanced at all. It was a bold change, and no doubt some will think it was the right change, but personally I think it was too severe and far worse than what was considered unbalanced before.

 

Whether adjustments to individual classes ac's (nerfs/buffing) is down to the devs but as it stands now pvp is not in a good place, and your seeing more mara/sents by the day. Is the class ovepowered? I do not think it was pre 1.2, but i do not know if that was because there was less of these ac, or simply the changes to expertise, classes etc was too drastic. In either case it would mean toning down certain abilities of the mara, or bufing other classes to compensate. I can only say what im seeing in warzones, and I play warzones every day, since early access - more and more people rolling mara, balance not being where it should be really.

 

I do not think this is a good thing long-term for a game where server populations are in decline.

[Ashaari]

Wow, I didn't know they implemented 8-man ques already.

 

I remember this one time, we got a premade of 6 assault vanguards and 2 healers, they simply ran around critting us for 12k each, slaughtering us we got out of spawn then laughing as we hit their heavy armor for no damage at all.

 

The next match was worse, they had 4 31/31/31 spec sentinals who sprouted wings and picked people up and dropped them from the sky.

 

Way to miss the point - yes, that means at least 2 x 4 man groups of 3 Maruders + a healer, somehow if it were 8 player teams it wouldnt be so bad as it could be claimed it was an isolated incident.