What Sent/Mar spec and change has contributed to them becoming op?

[Ditolus]

if i had to take a guess i'd say all the people in this thread who have said marauders are not op are marauders themselves. sorry guys but it's true. you're op. check the dps stats at the ends of wz's. check the dps stats at the end of raids with ur guildmates using mox parser and look at the dps stats for maruaders compared to other classes. u guys need a nerf. even the marauders in my own guild begrudgingly admit they're op. Edited April 30, 2012 by Ditolus
forgot something again

[theangryllama]

Definitely as others have said (didnt read all 11 pages) it was more the nerfs to other classes and changes to expertise and TTK that really pushed them over.

They were close to top of the heap pre 1.2 when played by a player with half a brain. The buffs to ravage/master strike made it powerful and so it started seeing use.

 

Main thing being when TTK is so low across the board, being able to gain 99% immunity for 5s on a 90/75/45s cooldown almost doubles your survivability without affecting offensive pressure causes a rather glaring difference.

 

In almost all other cases 'class stacking' has a disadvantage somewhere. A theoretical other class stacking situation that could defeat it (8 x class A would be beaten by 8 x class B but that would in turn be beaten by 8x class C). Marauders/Sentinels however are at a point where you could theoretically have 8 of them and win... especially if a large number of them are rage.

[Orielensis]

Ok, but if marauders/sentinels are OP then why will an equally skilled and geared shadow/assassin (tank spec, dps gear) solo them comfortably 9 times out of 10?

 

Or is there someone with relevant experience prepared to say this isn't so?

[Adzzy]

increasing the execute threshold to 30% with a damage upgrade while other classes copped a damage downgrade, and the general overall damage increased.

 

What could it be....

[Adzzy]

Ok, but if marauders/sentinels are OP then why will an equally skilled and geared shadow/assassin (tank spec, dps gear) solo them comfortably 9 times out of 10?

 

Or is there someone with relevant experience prepared to say this isn't so?

 

a marauder should lose to a tank specced dps assassin as often as a pyro powertech loses to a sorcerer.

[Orielensis]

I assume you mean sentinels/maras shouldn't lose 1v1 against shadows/assassins? There was a reason why I asked for someone to have relevant experience before disagreeing with me ...

 

I do loads of solo guard duty with my mara precisely because there are less than 10 players on my server who have a better than even chance of soloing me.

 

They are all shadows or assassins in tank spec with dps gear. Bad players with this set up but good gear I can beat, or good players with bad gear.

 

But if they have both then they have much better cc, self-heals, stronger and longer lasting defences (they are tanks). My dps is better but not by enough to overcome all those disadvantages.

 

Add in the fact shadows/assassins have good aoe damage (which 2/3 of sents/maras don't) and can guard healers, and I think you must conclude only one of these two ACs is OP.

 

No?

[Adzzy]

I assume you mean sentinels/maras shouldn't lose 1v1 against shadows/assassins? There was a reason why I asked for someone to have relevant experience before disagreeing with me ...

 

I do loads of solo guard duty with my mara precisely because there are less than 10 players on my server who have a better than even chance of soloing me.

 

They are all shadows or assassins in tank spec with dps gear. Bad players with this set up but good gear I can beat, or good players with bad gear.

 

But if they have both then they have much better cc, self-heals, stronger and longer lasting defences (they are tanks). My dps is better but not by enough to overcome all those disadvantages.

 

Add in the fact shadows/assassins have good aoe damage (which 2/3 of sents/maras don't) and can guard healers, and I think you must conclude only one of these two ACs is OP.

 

No?

 

Between saber ward, undying rage and camo (use this when they use recklessness harnessed force lightning...killing off a relatively force intensive ability that's also their highest damage attack is kind of useful) you shouldnt really lose to them, but im not really sure why what you claimed impacts whether someone is op,

 

Their damage isn't all that amazing, it's their survivability and utility vs the damage that's their issue, but an inability to heal through their damage isn't it, which is one of the issues created with the altered environment that's led to the plethora of these threads.

 

Their damage is pressure, more than killing power, their survivability is top notch and their utility is comparable if not better than a sorcs, it's pretty clear that the devs nevr really considered the impact of dps gear to that talent tree.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Adzzy

[PoM-TeRRi]

They were always like this but people didn't know how powerful the rage spec is. Now thanks to the buff Bioware kinda forced them to spec to it and now people realized how powerful it is.

 

Oh and also rage spec is easiest to play. You needed to be good if you want to do decent damage with other specs, since the majority of players are bad they didn't even notice how powerful the class is. Thats why even some really bad marauders were claiming they are up. But now they just play rage spec and herpderp their way.

 

My 2 friends were the only warriors on my server who were playing rage spec prior to 1.2 . Now every warrior is rage specced. (I mean every marauder/sentinel and every juggernaut/guardian)

 

And why marauders are OP,

 

- 2 minute (??) cooldown on immunity

- 1 minute cooldown on cloak of pain (%20 reduced damage) which has a 30 second duration if the target takes damage (dots apply to this mechanic)

- Vanish (don't know the cooldown but its pretty short)

- Saber Ward which makes %50 reduced damage for white damages and %25 for yellow ones. (not so sure about that)

- %90 accuracy debuff (since I am a healer I don't know if they put the debuff on you or they have a buff that negates everyones accuracy )

 

- They are the best damage dealers.

- They have good mobility. ( one 30m charge, one 10m charge, sprint)

- Aoe blind.

 

Only thing they lack is a knockback and a stun.

 

They have the best damage and best survival, with enough mobility. You have to be braindead if you can't see the opness of this class. They just don't have any weakness.

Edited April 30, 2012 by PoM-TeRRi

[Bpotux]

5 second 99% damage reduction on a class that has high burst and Sustained dps, can't be kited and can choose to disappear anytime they want AND have other multiple CD is a horrible idea.

[Orielensis]

Between saber ward, undying rage and camo (use this when they use recklessness harnessed force lightning...killing off a relatively force intensive ability that's also their highest damage attack is kind of useful) you shouldnt really lose to them, but im not really sure why what you claimed impacts whether someone is op,

 

Their damage isn't all that amazing, it's their survivability and utility vs the damage that's their issue, but an inability to heal through their damage isn't it, which is one of the issues created with the altered environment that's led to the plethora of these threads.

 

Their damage is pressure, more than killing power, their survivability is top notch and their utility is comparable if not better than a sorcs, it's pretty clear that the devs nevr really considered the impact of dps gear to that talent tree.

 

Well, ok so you have put some quality thought behind your opinion. But have you actually tried soloing a capable tank assassin/shadow (dps gear) with a sentinel/marauder much?

 

I have done so often and I find that if their gear and skill is as good as mine then I can do everything right and still lose by a good margin. One of the main points is that the defensive abilities you mention (which are all excellent) last for a cumulative total of 21 seconds. This duel is going to last at least 30 - 40 seconds. So the rest of the time I'm naked. And all marauders/sentinels know we go down really quickly without any cds.

 

I didn't say their damage was amazing but you say yourself that the devs probably didn't expect a dps geared hybrid. Their damage is much stronger than it should be considering all the other advantages you list (which I agree with) . Given their survival and utility, their damage is sufficient to allow them to kill me before I can kill them.

 

I am going to guess something fom the way you discuss this - is your main a healer? As a healer you would have a different perspective because you could heal through tankassin damage (as you say), whereas good sents/maras are your counter class.

 

But I say that all things being equal tankassins are clearly superior to sents/maras 1v1 and that suggests to me that sents/maras are not OP?

[Ashaari]

[quote name=

But I say that all things being equal tankassins are clearly superior to sents/maras 1v1 and that suggests to me that sents/maras are not OP?[/quote]

 

So 1 class can beat you and you can beat all others, you considerthat to not be OP?

 

I suggest you try a class other than Sent/Marauder or Tankassin

[Orielensis]

So 1 class can beat you and you can beat all others, you considerthat to not be OP?

 

I suggest you try a class other than Sent/Marauder or Tankassin

 

I see from another thread that you play a shadow yourself, Ashaari. Just so we know where you're coming from then

 

I think it's hard to say regarding OP since it's a team game, and class balance is usually more important in WZs than which kind of dps each team brought.

 

Exaggerated example, but good luck defeating a nice 2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 dps set up with 8 marauders! (I suppose the maras might win if it was huttball.)

 

But if, as I maintain, tankassins can 1v1 marauders all things being equal then surely marauders shouldn't be the priority target for the nerf bat?

 

Incidentally, you will see from my sig that I also play an op healer, but I agree with your general point that playing a variety of classes gives you much better perspective on these things.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Orielensis

[Maxkardinal]

5 second 99% damage reduction on a class that has high burst and Sustained dps, can't be kited and can choose to disappear anytime they want AND have other multiple CD is a horrible idea.

 

 

How are they CAN'T e kited?

[DestyOwn]

It is pretty simple,

 

Smash Spec = Extremely easy to play.

Dot Spec = Harder to play but destroys single targets.

 

and if you buy now you get all these bonuses:

 

Best Damage in the game

Best Survivability in the game

Can 2v1 No problem.

OP Defensive CD's...? ROFL

 

Medpack on same CD as their Undying Rage = Problem here? (It's supposed to be a last ditch effort CD, not a Wait im gonna heal myself and get healed while im invulnerable.)

 

Exemple : you are killing a marauder, hes at about 5%, he pops his undying rage + medpack = back to 25%, continue killing you, then if there is an healer close by he will be 100% full before you know it, if not he force camo and run away and come back 1min later since his undying rage will be OFF CD.

 

This Class Clearly has no CONS.

 

I won't talk about my defensive cd's as a sniper.

Edited April 30, 2012 by DestyOwn

[Darianth]

So apparently, you're supposed to stun Ravage, Cloak of Pain AND Undying Rage?

 

Balanced.

 

No only an idiot stuns ravage. Only stun gbtf or ur

[Ashaari]

I see from another thread that you play a shadow yourself, Ashaari. Just so we know where you're coming from then

.

 

Like many players I have many alts, the one I play most frequently in WZ,s is a sniper, so I like to think I can give a fair judgement as to which classes are OP and which are not.

I also have both a Sentinal and a Marauder and compared to everything except my Shadow and Tankassin I think they are somewhat disproportionally strong atm.

Either way I am not complaining about the balance, I just found the comment that the poster used to justify his "we are not OP" statement both amusing and illogical.

As you pointed out yourself, considering 1 v 1 in a team environment is pointless and futile

[Darianth]

 

I won't talk about my defensive cd's as a sniper.

 

There is no need to. We sniper/slingers have 2ccs and a knockback snare and a snare and if MM or SS a knockback off of ambush or aimed shot. Sounds like that's fair to me.

[GypsyMagik]

Hahaha 5 extra seconds before you die means best survivability in the game? anyone claiming such knows nothing about PVP hahahaha stop wasting time on these forums crying and learn the tactics you need to survive for your class sure everyones survivability has been lowered but if any of you actually knew how to focus fire you would realize marauders are still the squishiest class out there and always have been

[DestyOwn]

There is no need to. We sniper/slingers have 2ccs and a knockback snare and a snare and if MM or SS a knockback off of ambush or aimed shot. Sounds like that's fair to me.

 

dont worry i know about my knockbacks and a good marauder will get out of all your cc's before you know it.

[Darianth]

They have the best damage and best survival, with enough mobility. You have to be braindead if you can't see the opness of this class. They just don't have any weakness.

 

Ha yea right my slinger has no problem with them.

[Darianth]

dont worry i know about my knockbacks and a good marauder will get out of all your cc's before you know it.

 

They only have one cc break and if you manage your ccs and snares you can have them lower than 35% health no sweat before they even touch you.

[DestyOwn]

They only have one cc break and if you manage your ccs and snares you can have them lower than 35% health no sweat before they even touch you.

 

good marauders break your flashbang then saber ward = can't legshot them, get in range and by then their resolve is full and tbh on my server most marauders know me and when i fight them they always have all their defensive cd's up somehow.

Edited April 30, 2012 by DestyOwn

[xjaydub]

Hahaha 5 extra seconds before you die means best survivability in the game? anyone claiming such knows nothing about PVP hahahaha stop wasting time on these forums crying and learn the tactics you need to survive for your class sure everyones survivability has been lowered but if any of you actually knew how to focus fire you would realize marauders are still the squishiest class out there and always have been

 

When you can burst for 3-5k dmg in 1 global. those 5 sec are a game changer

[DestyOwn]

Hahaha 5 extra seconds before you die means best survivability in the game? anyone claiming such knows nothing about PVP hahahaha stop wasting time on these forums crying and learn the tactics you need to survive for your class sure everyones survivability has been lowered but if any of you actually knew how to focus fire you would realize marauders are still the squishiest class out there and always have been

 

and i have never seen a good marauder die after using undying rage because : 1 - they will use their medpack 2 - they will stay there for 4 seconds then force camo or 3 - they will get healed during the duration and be back to full.

[Audenlol]

and i have never seen a good marauder die after using undying rage because : 1 - they will use their medpack 2 - they will stay there for 4 seconds then force camo or 3 - they will get healed during the duration and be back to full.

 

Bad sniper is bad.

 

Do snipers have an ability to prevent them from getting heals too? The fact you burst the marauder down to have to use undying rage AND his healer could not keep him up w/o the marauder using undying rage seems pretty balanced to me.

 

If anything, maybe sniper/gunslinger damage is a bit too much right now.