Pyrotech as PVE Spec?

[Artichokey]

Since 1.2.0c ive decided to give Pyrotech a whirl while BW gets around to fixing Arsenal. So far the preliminary tests on my target dummy are encouraging. As arsenal i did around 828 dps with the current bugs in place and over 900 as pyrrotech, following the spec outlined on sithwarriors site. It's not a huge gain by any means, but it does indeed make for a bigger over all benefit.

 

Still i am not overly sure if this is still going to be better than arsenal as a target dummy is not an ops boss.

 

Please send your thoughts and feed back so as to further illuminate the mysteries of Pyrotech PVE damage.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Artichokey

[TimoTribal]

I switched to pyro like yourself after running Arsenal ever since I hit 50 and started running flashpoints and ops. Since swtching I have done Denova storymode and KP Nightmare and it was fine. The two specs feel to me like they are at least equal in damage output, pyro may even be doing more.

 

The standard blasters attacks hit so hard when CGC procs and burnout really comes into its own on a boss with high hp, helping to burn through that last 30%. That is something that will not show on the target dummy properly. Add to that the extra mobilty and less casting times required and this allows for sustained DPS even while moving which is very good in Denova especially.

 

I will be staying pyro for now, at least until they fix arsenal.

[Artichokey]

That answers alot of questions. I can still do 1k dps as arsenal(tried a 2nd round on the dummy) but its just sad seeing 4k HSM crits as well as 2200 tracer crits.

 

30% more damage at the last 30% will def put me over 1k dps as pyrotech, plus i no longer have to be bored to death with the same old spec in the meantime.

 

For a class that has very little utility we sure don't get the "****!!" face melting dps i was hoping for as Merc. Perhaps we will one day be as blessed as Marauders with that sort of god mod dps.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Artichokey

[LovarBoy]

 

30% more damage at the last 30% will def put me over 1k dps as pyrotech, plus i no longer have to be bored to death with the same old spec in the meantime.

 

 

It's just +30% damage to DoT's and we got ~ 1,5 ( 2,5 ) of them. Incendiary Missile is permanently on the target. Below 30% Fusion Missile is a really good and escpecially extremely strong DoT on the target - problem is the immense amount of produced heat ( 33 ).

 

I don't get why Mercs don't have a 100% chance to trigger CGC like the PowerTech. The Pyro is all about DoT's and we only have a 16% chance to trigger the CGC - I think that is one of the bigger deficits of the spec. Moreover I don't know why Thermal Detonator is the ultimate talent - any sense, why not being a DoT or a DoT-Enhancement?

 

I really like Pyro, and in PvP your overall damage can be fantastic. A little problem is the heat-management if there are more targets - spamming Incendiary Missile is not possible.

Edited April 25, 2012 by LovarBoy

[McGarnagle]

It's just +30% damage to DoT's and we got ~ 1,5 ( 2,5 ) of them. Incendiary Missile is permanently on the target. Below 30% Fusion Missile is a really good and escpecially extremely strong DoT on the target - problem is the immense amount of produced heat ( 33 ).

 

I don't get why Mercs don't have a 100% chance to trigger CGC like the PowerTech. The Pyro is all about DoT's and we only have a 16% chance to trigger the CGC - I think that is one of the bigger deficits of the spec. Moreover I don't know why Thermal Detonator is the ultimate talent - any sense, why not being a DoT or a DoT-Enhancement?

 

I really like Pyro, and in PvP your overall damage can be fantastic. A little problem is the heat-management if there are more targets - spamming Incendiary Missile is not possible.

 

Well, it is 16% per blaster bolt. So a thing like rapid shots will be around 64-96% (depending on misses and defenses). Certainly not 100%, but not as bad as 16%.

[LovarBoy]

Well, it is 16% per blaster bolt. So a thing like rapid shots will be around 64-96% (depending on misses and defenses). Certainly not 100%, but not as bad as 16%.

 

 

Did you test that?

 

Would be intersting for me, never thought about the higher amount of "shots" using rapid shots.

[StewieMcScotty]

Like the OP I too went to pryo after BW screwed arsenal. The chance to trigger CGC is 16% per blaster shot from ANY Ranged ability like: RS PS Unload and Rail shot. For me the chance to proc it is more around a 35-59% chance with RS, a 50-80% chance with Unload, a 10-20% chance with PS, and a 16% chance with rail shot (assuming that CGC isnt already on the target). I also agree that we should have an ability that has a 100% chance to proc it like the PTs do it would also mean a small but noticeable dps increase with the spec due to the little to no down time with the CGC dot.

 

Also fully buffed in 12/12 rakata i was pulling just under arsenal on the operation boss target dummy around 1244 with pryo and 1288 with arsenal. that being said pyro will do way more damage when the target is under 30% and pyro has a HUGE advantage in mobility dps though it does have a bit of a problem with heat management, but if speced properly and with some skill(cant forget about luck with the PPA procs) it easily overcome.

 

Note: from my experience you dont want to be dpsing Zorn in the new operation with this spec because if for some god awful reason you get the fearful debuff your almost certain to die due to your dots (this is especially true in HM)

 

just my 2 cents Long Live the PVE Pyro Merc

[Macroecon]

Well, it is 16% per blaster bolt. So a thing like rapid shots will be around 64-96% (depending on misses and defenses). Certainly not 100%, but not as bad as 16%.

 

Well not exactly. It's 16% per blaster bolt HIT. And you might think that with 103% Accuracy every blaster bolt will hit. But they won't. Your offhand attacks miss a lot.

 

You can use a test dummy and save the combat log. I've done that, and it clearly shows this mechanic. The good news then is that CGC triggers very often with Rapid Shots. The bad news is that Retaliation/Riposte triggers almost 100% of the time when you use Rapid Shots. So if you are firing at one of those increasingly common melee toons, you just caused more damage to yourself than you did to your target by attacking him. And that's assuming the melee toon had none of his copious defensive abilities up. In the more likely case that he did have some up, well the numbers just got worse.

[LovarBoy]

and a 16% chance with rail shot

Long Live the PVE Pyro Merc

 

 

CGC can be triggered by Railshoot?

 

Never recognized that and I think it does not trigger CGC - Railshoot is not a blaster attack.

Edited April 25, 2012 by LovarBoy

[Hutt]

Pyro as PVE spec is very viable... The only problem is the heat, learn sequences to prevent over heat, and I wouldn't call it burst dmg. It's more like delayed dmg. I do a lot of dmg bit it doesn't show right out of the gate. I went flashpointing with a sniper being the other dps. Their dmg was awesome to start and after I got my flames and dots going it would annihilate the bosses. I like the instances and the flame thrower is nasty. For pvp, in a premade, I can really hang, unlike arsenal, but PuG'ING it, I'm still having problems. I've kinda shelved him though and rolling an assassin as that is definitely the class to go with.

[Ewert]

Note: from my experience you dont want to be dpsing Zorn in the new operation with this spec because if for some god awful reason you get the fearful debuff your almost certain to die due to your dots (this is especially true in HM)

Ahhah, so THAT is what killed me there after a switcharoo. 3.7k hits zillion times in row, was really baffled. =P

[StewieMcScotty]

CGC can be triggered by Railshoot?

 

Never recognized that and I think it does not trigger CGC - Railshoot is not a blaster attack.

 

It has happened to me quite alot try only putting Inc. Missile on the target then using rail shot it either has a chance to trigger CGC or it is a bug from Super Heated Rails with the game thinking that the Inc. Missile dot is actually the CGC dot and has rail shot "refresh" it.

[StewieMcScotty]

Ahhah, so THAT is what killed me there after a switcharoo. 3.7k hits zillion times in row, was really baffled. =P

 

Ya took my guild awhile to figure out why all of Sorcs were dying mid way through are HM attempt turns out it was the Fearful debuff reflecting back 6k per tick from there dots on Zorn so we drop one sorc brought in another Arsenal Merc and put the last sorc with me on Toth and we were able to down them before the enrage timer. The gratifying part was that Toth went down before Zorn did and Zorn had the 2 Arsenal mercs on him.

[Hxxr]

CGC can be triggered by Railshoot?

 

Never recognized that and I think it does not trigger CGC - Railshoot is not a blaster attack.

 

It's weapon damage, that's why.

Power Shot is two hits obviously. Unload however seems to be two hits as well, which is quite strange.

 

And yes, Pyro, while fun to play, needs some help ... maybe a heat cost reduction for Incendiary Missile would be enough. Thermal Detonator is sort of lame, it coule just copy other classes DoT enhancement mechanic and leave a debuff that buffs a couple of DoT ticks.

[smokeylemons]

It's weapon damage, that's why.

Power Shot is two hits obviously. Unload however seems to be two hits as well, which is quite strange.

 

And yes, Pyro, while fun to play, needs some help ... maybe a heat cost reduction for Incendiary Missile would be enough. Thermal Detonator is sort of lame, it coule just copy other classes DoT enhancement mechanic and leave a debuff that buffs a couple of DoT ticks.

 

Thermal detonator is awesome esp in pvp, when people least expect a 4k crit to wipe them the last 30-40% hp. its a nice surprise lol. But im gonna miss my ~9k HSM crits :/

[Niil]

It's weapon damage, that's why.

Power Shot is two hits obviously. Unload however seems to be two hits as well, which is quite strange.

 

And yes, Pyro, while fun to play, needs some help ... maybe a heat cost reduction for Incendiary Missile would be enough. Thermal Detonator is sort of lame, it coule just copy other classes DoT enhancement mechanic and leave a debuff that buffs a couple of DoT ticks.

 

Pyro is trickier than it appears at first glance for heat management.

 

I typically start with Incendiary Missile, Thermal Detonator, Rail Shot, Unload, Rail Shot. Then I cycle double Power Shots, Rapid Shots, while waiting for Rail Shot refresh or Unload to come up. Once Thermal Detonator is off cooldown, I use it and refresh Incendiary Missile. Big thing to keep track of is the Thermal Sensor Override cooldown goes by very fast. If you find yourself in a bad heat position try to use it on Incendiary Missile. Also don't be afraid to spam Rapid Shots during the cycle and use Vent Heat on cooldown. It allows us to spike up for extra sustained every 90 seconds. The damage isn't terrible with Combustible Gas Cylinder and each shot it fires has a chance to proc. Another easy trick for a short dps boost is to pop Thermal Sensor Override and Power Surge on Fusion Missile. This works particularly well sub 30% due to the bonus 30% periodic elemental damage. On standstill fights (of which there aren't many) I've been able to sustain 1250ish dps with no Marauder in the group for Bloodthirst and without using adrenals because I'm lazy.

 

As you get familiar with the spec, it becomes easier to ascertain what points you need to lighten up on heat use and what points it's okay to go heavy heat on. In particular things like Soa p3 you need to maintain low heat so you can bust everything out on Soa when he becomes vulnerable, or going light on the mob waves before the Baradium Bomber spawns on Kephess so you can sink everything you have on it before it blows up.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Niil

[Toogeloo]

What is the mostly agreed upon Pyro DPS spec for PvE, and is it as long ranged as Arsenal is? Is the dps really that much better, and what are the stat priorities for it? Edited April 26, 2012 by Toogeloo

[Gyronamics]

Well not exactly. It's 16% per blaster bolt HIT. And you might think that with 103% Accuracy every blaster bolt will hit. But they won't. Your offhand attacks miss a lot.

 

Just so you know it's not something special for BH with the offhand.

 

With 103.45 accuracy every single cast attack will hit 100% with a Commando using the assault cannon but the default attack still misses 7-8%

 

I'm not about to stack accuracy just to get the default attack hitting 100% but it does have a much lower accuracy than cast attacks,

Edited April 26, 2012 by Gyronamics

[Iandayen]

Dunno what you are doing to only get like 800 dps as arsenal considering i can hold roughly 1300 only self buffed on the operations dummy.

[Toogeloo]

Dunno what you are doing to only get like 800 dps as arsenal considering i can hold roughly 1300 only self buffed on the operations dummy.

 

Possible he is quoting his dps in an Ops environment, where mobility tends to drop dps. Going balls to the walls on a dummy should easily post the best numbers... problem is 1300 is actually on the low end for a dummy parse. Gunslinger in my Republic guild hits 1750 on the dummy, Marauders are getting upwards to 1500 or more.

[Rethban]

What is the mostly agreed upon Pyro DPS spec for PvE

 

I'd say there's isn't really any other way to spec pyro pve other than:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300MzZMckZcGrbzGhrs.1

 

Give or take the 2% crit but I find the 16 extra heat reduc far more useful, lets me use an extra ability if I want to purposely overheat not to mention get your heat at the 4 bar regen level easier.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Rethban

[Iandayen]

Possible he is quoting his dps in an Ops environment, where mobility tends to drop dps. Going balls to the walls on a dummy should easily post the best numbers... problem is 1300 is actually on the low end for a dummy parse. Gunslinger in my Republic guild hits 1750 on the dummy, Marauders are getting upwards to 1500 or more.

 

In an ops environment my DPS goes up.

 

I don't do as much as a Powertech or a marauder - I'm usually right with or right below our snipers, and I'm above everybody else.

 

I'm always in the top 4-5 DPS in our 16 man raids a few fights i'm higher because of mechanics and whatnot.

 

It's knowing how to gear yourself properly and use your abilities properly - we have a merc with zero set bonuses in fresh custom gear a fresh 50 (literally hit 50 this week) that is doing 1100 on the test dummy lol.

 

All i'm saying is we are completely viable as a DPS class in raids and pyro (merc - powertech pyros are like top dps atm) won't be able to pull the numbers arsenal can in end game DPS.

[Azrienov]

The dots from pyro are fantastic. It's where a lion's share of your damage comes from, and the CGC is free. I'd stick with it, because it's easier to space out your damage and maintain it. Bursting in PvE is a good way to get killed.

[Toogeloo]

Is Pyro Merc showing more damage than Arsenal Merc currently? Was considering switching to it to try out if the numbers were in it's favor. We run 16 man Ops, and I am concerned about whether my fellow raiders will be missing my Tracer Missiles as well, or it that's even an issue anymore.

[MorgonKara]

I've been playing my Merc as Pyrotech since lvl 10 (before 1.2) it's about lvl 45 now and I really like it a lot. Fusion Missile + Blaster Sweep mows down groups of standard NPCs in 2 moves. Strong and Elite mobs are no trouble and with a healer comp I can burn down Champ NPCs solo. Once you get the hang of it it is an awesome spec, those free armor-penetrating Railshots are nice and crits hit like a truck. (The main mechanic is that Unload and Powershot have a chance to reset Railshot which then vents heat.)

It's also a great spec for PvP. So far I've got 31 Pyro and 5 Arsenal with all points in damage rather than defense or stealth detection abilities & a mix of critical and overkill gear.

 

This is what I've got so far http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300ZMcZfhrbzGhrs.1 you get the idea.

Edited April 27, 2012 by MorgonKara