Premades ruining the pvp of this game

[gwrtheyn]

Probably because getting owned by the same Premade for 3 hours straight, no matter which day you log on to play, isn’t fun and BW isn’t exactly Speedy Gonzales on implementing the PvP improvements it has promised. If you’re on a low pop server, you know what I mean. At the very least, give us cross sever PvP so that different premades can own we PUGggers. Variety is the spice of life, even when getting your *** kicked.

 

the PuG matchmacking is terrible too(premades skip this problem),like 4+ of the same adv class,facing premades without heal or tanks etc

[dcwsfu]

There are a bunch of regular premades on my server, but there is one that always steamrolls everyone even the other premades. Last week I was on a complete pug team that beat them in Voidstar. It was ridiculously satisfying.

[OdamanPrime]

MMO= make friends and do things as a group. I hear console games and FPSs can accommodate your need to not have to get a team in a team game.

[SliggXx]

It's true, you might only que with 4 other people and use vent or mumble to coordinate your attacks but it's still a major major advantage over a group of 8 pug players, if adding insult to injury wasn't enough, you have 8 players making two parties then by dumb luck are grouped all together in the same Warzone match with them coordinating their gameplan and attacks on mumble/vent, it's so unfair and unjust that pugs must suffer the humiliation and disgrace of defeat against an unfair match between pug and premade, this must be stopped or no non-premade players will enter wz matches again.

 

Sorry that you are bad?

[Stradoo]

It's true, you might only que with 4 other people and use vent or mumble to coordinate your attacks but it's still a major major advantage over a group of 8 pug players, if adding insult to injury wasn't enough, you have 8 players making two parties then by dumb luck are grouped all together in the same Warzone match with them coordinating their gameplan and attacks on mumble/vent, it's so unfair and unjust that pugs must suffer the humiliation and disgrace of defeat against an unfair match between pug and premade, this must be stopped or no non-premade players will enter wz matches again.

 

You should really rethink why you play games AT ALL.

[SammuelSK]

Competetive playersneed to premade to practice for rated etc.

 

Uh.. no. Not so much, competative groups don't need to "practice". These groups consist of players who know exactly what they are doing, the game has been out months now.

 

The only reason people group up in premades atm is to get ahead on the gear grind. Pugs are easy pickings and its a huge boost to your comms if you actually win. So they will happily keep stomping players into the ground, when rated WZ's come out they'll just as happily ***** about how they've already got all this gear and need better items.

 

BW's done the PVP community a huge disservice here continuing its tendancy of doing the absolute worse possibly thing at any given momment, rated gear should not have been earnable through a grind and should infact been based around rated matches. Secondly, and by far most importantly, premades should NEVER face pugs.. it does nothing but absolutely murder the overall playerbase.

 

Often I hear, well.. make your own premade. Yeah.. here's the thing about that little piece of advice. Its simply not going to happen.. players instead will give up queing altogether turning the severs into an absolute ghostown. It might be shocking to hear but your epeen means absolutely nothing if nobody but you is playing. And honestly why should they queue up and continue to sub if they are not having fun. Despite what some bloated ego's might think, this is simply a game.. your successes mean nothing beyond it and if those successes come at the cost of lost subs.. the system is flawed.

 

So Bioware's got a choice, and judging from the state of some servers its a choice that needs to be made sooner then later. Fix PVP, add cross server queues and get rid of premade vs pug queues and keep them to rated warzones ONLY (As it should have been from the start) or cater to a relatively tiny, but very vocal, part of the playerbase who is currently doing more harm then good.

[djdidion]

Uh.. no. Not so much, competative groups don't need to "practice". These groups consist of players who know exactly what they are doing, the game has been out months now.

 

 

 

BW's done the PVP community a huge disservice here continuing its tendancy of doing the absolute worse possibly thing at any given momment, rated gear should not have been earnable through a grind and should infact been based around rated matches. Secondly, and by far most importantly, premades should NEVER face pugs.. it does nothing but absolutely murder the overall playerbase.

 

Often I hear, well.. make your own premade. Yeah.. here's the thing about that little piece of advice. Its simply not going to happen.. players instead will give up queing altogether turning the severs into an absolute ghostown. It might be shocking to hear but your epeen means absolutely nothing if nobody but you is playing. And honestly why should they queue up and continue to sub if they are not having fun. Despite what some bloated ego's might think, this is simply a game.. your successes mean nothing beyond it and if those successes come at the cost of lost subs.. the system is flawed.

 

Yeah this is one pugger you won't have to worry about I just killed my sub have a great day.

[kweassa]

Once rated-WZs arrive, disallow team queuing for normal WZs, and only allow for rated-WZs.

 

Win-win scenario. Premades have no reason at all to object to this, since:

 

(1) They get competition in their own league

(2) Since they say it's so "easy" to make premade teams, they won't have any problems recruiting 4 more people

(3) PuGs have no qualms with premades now - win or lose, at least they know its the same PuGs they are up against

 

Any premades objecting to this can only mean the premade team specifically has a purpose to fight PuGs for easy wins, I'd say. Ofcourse, they could always argue "but I want to play with my friends as a team!", but nobody's stopping that either. Go play as a team with your friends, against other bunch of friends who fight as a team. Absolutely fair.

 

Well, they might then argue, "but we don't want to fight at the level of insane competition at rated arenas, we only want to enjoy it as a team in a casual environment..!" ... well, welcome to the world of PuGs fighting premades. Throw down the double standard and hypocrisy, and go fight same premades - if you don't like it, its because your premade team sucks. Get better, and that should be the end of all problems, right? Just like what the premades tell the PuGs everytime, right?

 

This isn't penalizing anyway for any premades. It's just setting the matchup level on even grounds.

 

Ok, it's penalizing for premades who formed premades knowing that the odds of meeting another premades is low, and therefore most of the time they'll ROFLstomp almost every WZ with landslide victories... but I'm sure no premades ever, think of such a thing.. and therefore, any premade enthusiast would also have no beef with the above suggestion.

[Sathid]

I hate to say it but yes Pre Mades should only go against other pre mades,for many on the Republic WZ's are a loss before they started because of the advantages the Imperials have had for so long,and then the number of premades from that faction daily is killing PvP.

[KEKHAN]

Gotta say I agree. On low population servers there are so few numbers that it's easy for pre-mades to get 2 groups of 4 players and join immediately and they have filled up the whole team, against a team of Pugs you know what will happen.

 

I've seen it happen on one of the servers I am on, the pug team gets stomped in the first minute and people leave. Then they give up queing altogether and PvP dies.

 

IMO it should be random, you've got Ops and FP's to group together. People dont do pre-mades because it's more fun, they do it to win.

 

You therefore have one team that gets all the WZ wins and therefore the gear and they get even further ahead of the Pugs it's idiotic.

[Sathid]

The problem is the strange antisocial nature of MMO players. They dont want to get in VOIPs because of whatever bad reasons they have.

 

I love MMOs don't get me wrong but I've never ever understood this. You never hear "Premades need their own bracket!" in other competitive games because its simply not a problem. what was the last major FPS released without in game VOIP? Effectively making every team have VOIP and the ability to quickly coordinate tactics. And in those games premades don't matter, it comes down to the skill of the players on the teams. So PUGs can easily outplay premades or at the very least give them a serious run for their money.

 

Many MMOs embraced this Idea and tried to put VOIP in the game standard. I remember when they released it in WoW there was such a backlash against it. No one wanted to use it, or be made to use it or whatever. It never goes over well in MMOs and I've seen many try. Many people refuse to turn it on no mater what tasks they are doing. then we get threads like this complaining about premades having VOIP and therefore superior tactical ability.

 

Should you have to play with particular people to be able to PvP effectively? no. But the obvious and clear way to fix that problem has been spat on by the MMORPG community for years. Perhaps let the Devs know that you actually want Joined VOIP when you go into a Warzone instead of complaining about a problem with a very simple fix.

 

EQ2 has had VOIP for years and used alot.

[Sargonea]

I'm a valor rank 74 who often solo queue's but also on occasion run small groups of 2 or 3, and enjoy a good competitive premade vs premade match. Easy wins due to mismatches are largely boring and not much fun.

 

Two steps solve all the issues in this thread. Cross server. Rated WZ. This enables the matchmaking system to be more picky about matching players against similar skill players, in similar sized groups, or lack of groups. The matchmaking system should try very hard to prevent a premade from fighting a pug.

 

Why should this be done? Think it through logically. There are three types of matches currently in typical play.

 

1) all pug vs all pug. These players are having fun.

 

2) premade vs premade. These players should be having fun. A few 'griefers' who only premade to stomp pugs will be unhappy.

 

3) premade vs pug. No one is happy here, the pugs are getting slaughtered, and the premade is bored. Only Griefers are happy.

 

Cross server solves all the population problems, faction imbalances, etc. Take the whole of swtor population and the queue times will be lightning fast, even with tight matchmaking. This ridiculous references to other games is pointless. There is ample population across all swtor servers to support this system.

 

Rating helps immensely as well. Not all premades are made equal, just as all solo queue players are not made equal (I like to think I'm pretty skilled). After ratings shake out, the awesome steamroll groups will be 2400+ and all facing each other. More casual 'just for fun with friends' premades will be lower ranked, facing similar teams. Skilled solo players will face other skilled solo players. Undergeared / underskilled players face others like them, and can have fun too.

 

Everyone benefits from these changes. Everyone... except players who only premade to stomp pug players.

 

One last point of emphasis. No one is suggesting you can't play in a premade with your friends. We are attempting to suggest that when you form a premade, there will likely be a premade on the other team too. Up for the challenge? I am.

[Zunayson]

Based on some QQ, I can use these equations and inequalities to prove the OP's point:

 

PvP in swtor = gear

gear =/= skill

premade = skill

 

gear =/= premade

PvP in swtor =/= premade

 

so his conclusion is that it ruins it because his clutch doesn't matter.

[Ainianu]

I play in premades every day for pvp, i do not play this specifically for any tactical advantage this gives me in pvp, nor to provide me with easy wins... I play because they are friends who i have come to enjoy playing with, be it pvp or pve flashpoints... I play mmo's to play with friends and others not just to solo queue with randoms.

 

The most fun i have in this game is when we play against other good premades from imps which provides a close game that tests us... The unfortunate reality is that the majority of games we play are against PUGS who are uncoordinated and very often not as skilled or geared as we are and it is as some state.. a complete stomping, with us often standing at the imperial respawn points hoping for someone to come out and play.

 

My hope is that soon premades will be matched to premades even before rated if possible so we can all have fun challenging games

[Bubblehearth]

It is a willingness to work together that gives me and three friends an advantage over you, not ventrilo. Even when I solo queue I know how to work with random people for wins. Stop asking for punishment against people who are doing what you refuse to do.

[cashogy]

trust me, the feeling is mutual. pugs ruin the game even more so than premades imo. getting tired of pugs continuing to find ways to blow sure-fire wins

[Runzhouse]

I'mma repost what I said in a different thread a few days ago...

 

I don't presume to know how to fix the issue best, without stepping on anyone's toes. The problem for me personally (and I seriously doubt I am alone here) is that when you play the game the way I do, it just feels broken. I try to group PVP whenever possible but sometimes that just does't work out, or I just don't feel like getting on Vent/TS/whatever and just want to run by myself. The problem I run into is that it seems like literally 80% of the time, I will sit and wait anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes to get into a WZ and all too often it is against an imperial premade. I can't help but think that it's because of the population imbalance we have on my server (baelgoth's beacon).

 

This is a good example - this is just while I was que'ing by myself the other day. I know a lot of people might think I'm posting a couple unfortunate matches, but I promise super scout's honor I'm not. This is honestly what it's like 2/3's of the time. Yes, there are certain que times where I as republic can manage to win about 50% of the matches, but the vast majority of the time, this isn't abnormal.

 

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m33/Runzhouse/Screenshot_2012-04-22_17_09_03_799769.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m33/Runzhouse/Screenshot_2012-04-22_14_02_42_397553.jpg

 

I used to play MMO's more than I do now, fairly competitively in PVP on some of them. What I don't get is when I played in premade groups, I liked the challenge of playing against other premade groups. It was some of the most fun I've ever had in MMO's. Going up against pugs could be fun for a match or two, but after that I felt no different than how I imagine an aim-botter feels in MW. It's really discouraging to sit and invest time in a game only to have the fun you find in playing it taken away from you by something completely beyond your control. It doesn't make for a fun game.

 

Edit:

From talking to some of the imperials on my server, maybe population imbalance has a lot to do with it. They feel like they have a lot larger pool of people to group up with, including more healers. They say when they play their republic toons they just feel at a disadvantage due to having a gimped player pool to run with.

 

I truly believe that a lot of the disconnect players feel, solo PVPers and group PVPers alike, can be solved by 2 things. One is easy and already on the way - rated WZ's. The other is a little harder. The faction imbalance is killing this game. I really think BW needs to bite the bullet, merge some servers together and close creating imperial toons untill the population is more balanced. It's impossible to create a fair PVP environment when the numbers are skewed.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Runzhouse

[GRINnBARRETT]

Of the MMOs that facilitate premades, this one is actually one of the best as groups can currently only be 4 people tops. If you're a pugger (and I am 95% of the time), then premades make it unfun to play for the most part but it's definitely tolerable in this game.

 

When 8 mans get here they better have cross-server queues or us puggers are going to be backfilling the hell out of premade queues.

[kweassa]

It is a willingness to work together that gives me and three friends an advantage over you, not ventrilo. Even when I solo queue I know how to work with random people for wins. Stop asking for punishment against people who are doing what you refuse to do.

 

That would mean you've got no problems with removing premades from non-ranked WZs, since according to what you're suggesting, you alone working in conjunction with other 7, random team members, is enough for you to win.

 

Great.

 

So, support the "remove premades from non-ranked WZs". You have no reason not to.

[Shredbull]

Premades aren't destroying your gaming experience, OP, you are. Get a guild and L2p.

 

It's not the premading players fault they don't want to play with bad players. Kudos to them for finding a way to not be in bad pug groups all day that make them lose. Good players are ENTITLED to win. And if they team up to do so I don't see a problem with that.

 

Stop complaining and up your game.

[Astarica]

Most of the good premades I ran into stopped playing because winning every single game actually gets boring really quick.

 

The bad premades are ruining people's day because that's the only way they can win, and since that's the only way they can win they'll make sure to ruin your day because that's their only reason to run a premade (they certainly can't actually win enough to get bored with the game like a good premade). But then those guys in general just want to ruin your day so even if you don't allow premades, they'd just find a different way to ruin your day. They'd probably just become the guy who quits right as the match starts to ensure your team starts with a huge handicap.

[revampt]

ive beat premades with pugs alot, maybe my server just has more better people than all of yours. I pref solo Q more of a challenge

[dunkelhaar]

I have seen pugs destroying premade, I have seen premade destroying pugs. You can get lucky with pugs, getting top players of the server, you can get unlucky with premade, getting 2-3 ppl with greenish gear and lvl 40 mods. If ppl dont just train zerg and look up how many of my team are still alive and where are they (eg voidstar) you still get a great chance to win. Yes, you have a higher chance to win (especially huttball) but then it depends on the enemy team and your other 4 teammates.

 

btw yesterday I played a huttball with a pug where we owned 2 premades in the enemy team just with nice positioning, good players, and fast movement.

 

ps: I got no problem to play against premades. The bigger issue is melee heavy teams

Edited April 27, 2012 by dunkelhaar

[SammuelSK]

Premades aren't destroying your gaming experience, OP, you are. Get a guild and L2p.

 

It's not the premading players fault they don't want to play with bad players. Kudos to them for finding a way to not be in bad pug groups all day that make them lose. Good players are ENTITLED to win. And if they team up to do so I don't see a problem with that.

 

Stop complaining and up your game.

 

This is the kind of myopic opinion that if unchecked will destory a game. Let me simplify it for you.

 

Game = Fun

Premade vs Pug = Not fun

Game = Not fun

Player = Unsubbed

Game = Empty

 

If you are such a good player, and have upped your game to whatever level your ego currently has you pegged at you shouldn't have a problem facing nothing but other premades. Similarly, those that are NOT at your level and don't have 3 to 7 players backing them up should be perfectly fine and happy facing nothing but other pug players.

 

And nobody is entitled to anything, everyone pays the exact same sub and should have equal access to having fun. Stop being an ***-hat.

[Astarica]

ive beat premades with pugs alot, maybe my server just has more better people than all of yours. I pref solo Q more of a challenge

 

There are only three serious disadvantage of a PUG versus premade:

 

1. The enemy might be specialized in certain maps. The best example of this is Huttball, though with 1.2 it's difficult to be a one map wonder team. Before 1.2, a premade that isn't good at anything except Huttball can still face roll even an equally geared opposition PUG just because that map demands very specific team setups.

 

2. The premade will generally have a gear advantage, possibly a very signifcant advantage.

 

3. The premade probably has at least one healer, while your PUG might have 0.

 

In the games where the PUG I get have at least one healer, and have comparable gear level as the enemy, I have no problem defeating enemy premades. No you're not going to be able to pull off a win when 3 of your guys have 12K HP in a PUG, but even the best premade with those 3 guys probably would still lose rather badly.