Griefing: Everyone's Problem

[RowanThursday]

I'd support a 'never flag for PVP settings option'.

Knowing that this will cause some in the PVP community to cry "Carebear"... please tell me what the disadvantage of such a setting would be?

 

Seriously, I'm not trolling- but as an almost-never-PvPer (my reaction times aren't fast enough, and mild dyspraxia means if I try to speed up I tend to just end up spamming the keyboard mindlessly), I'm not aware of the potential disadvantages.

 

As I see it... it wouldn't inconvenience 'legitimate PVPers', either on PVP servers where the flag would be auto-set to PVP *anyway* as of now, or PVPers engaging in mutually consenting PVP either.

 

A cooldown would still operate, as with now- with about the only exception being that, if you had this set, then on *death*, your PVP would deactivate so you couldn't be corpse-camped outside of WZs. However, you wouldn't be able to attack, then de-flag, any more than you can under the current system- the only difference would be that, as compared to the current situation where a player/player interaction with a PVPed player automatically flags you... in this case, with the 'do not flag' setting enabled, those interactions simply wouldn't work- AOE attacks would have no effect on players (this has already been fixed, thank goodness), and if you targetted a non-party player with either a buff or an attack, you'd just get red- text.

 

Similarly, presumably, in the context of this particular event- if a non-PVPer exploded next to you, you'd be infected as per the event. If a PVPer exploded next to you, then they'd get red text informing them of their failure to flag you- but the infection event would still go on.

[Bhaers]

I'd support a 'never flag for PVP settings option'.

 

You are trying to address what is a bug in the buff handling. However to take your idea on, it would mean that logic would be added to the program to stop you in future rezzing, healing or buffing PvP flagged toons .

 

This is the reason the flag is there, should someone be involved in world PvP and die there is no desire to allow an unflagged person to rez them and allow them to come back into the fight.

 

Only by making you get flagged on rezzing them or healing them is there "justice" available to the other side by them allowing you to be attacked too.

 

Should the developers take time to add all this logic and complexity to the program or should they just fix the debuff so it's not a flagable action and leave in the ability for you to rez a flagged player with you being flagged.

 

Consider this before answering: Say your best friend is down to the 10 minute respawn, they were in PvP mode, you are surrounded by elites. Do you rez them and take the flag yourself or do you sit there for 10 minutes waiting for their timer to reset so they can self rez.

[Beratac]

And this is why this event was the dumbest event ever.. Some one would have to creat a griefing thread over a plague.. where in the very nature of plagues means its transfered either intentionaly or unintentionaly. Get over it and move on.. I'm just glad the dang thing is over.

 

I'm wondering when the game will get back to its origin base and that is Empire VS. Republic. As it is now. Every WZ is just a combination of all players.. gone is the Empire vs. Republic.. nothing but same faction fighting.. THAT is NOT StarWars. Lets have that debate.

[Liquidacid]

I feel like this thread is griefing me

[Danakar]

You are trying to address what is a bug in the buff handling. However to take your idea on, it would mean that logic would be added to the program to stop you in future rezzing, healing or buffing PvP flagged toons .

 

This is the reason the flag is there, should someone be involved in world PvP and die there is no desire to allow an unflagged person to rez them and allow them to come back into the fight.

 

Only by making you get flagged on rezzing them or healing them is there "justice" available to the other side by them allowing you to be attacked too.

 

Should the developers take time to add all this logic and complexity to the program or should they just fix the debuff so it's not a flagable action and leave in the ability for you to rez a flagged player with you being flagged.

 

Consider this before answering: Say your best friend is down to the 10 minute respawn, they were in PvP mode, you are surrounded by elites. Do you rez them and take the flag yourself or do you sit there for 10 minutes waiting for their timer to reset so they can self rez.

 

If my best friend had PvP on, I'd ask him to go with me to a cantina first to take it off before we start doing quests. I'm not going to play with him if he has PvP on while we're doing PvE (on a RP-PvE server). So I'd take a 'No PvP' option even if it also denies me the ability to buff/heal/harm/rez others with PvP on. I once rezzed a player in Voss because I just wanted to help out and didn't realize he was flagged (name was grey) until I got flagged too. As I was all the way down on Voss (at the giant weapon) and nowhere near a cantina, I chose to continue questing. Only to have 2 level 50's suddenly jump me who happily killed me and patiently waited next to my corpse.

 

Besides, you can run from the elites and they reset. You can run from enemy players and they would just follow you.

 

So I sincerely hope BioWare gives us a 'No PvP' option. That way people that don't want to PvP won't be forced into doing PvP by getting flagged when they don't want to be flagged.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Danakar

[ISDEnterprise]

Griefing is fun. I highly recommend griefing players as often as possible.

[Liquidacid]

Griefing is fun. I highly recommend griefing players as often as possible.

 

I guess I have agree with this guy... I mean with a name like his he can't possibly be trolling

Edited April 26, 2012 by Liquidacid

[VorpalK]

You are trying to address what is a bug in the buff handling. However to take your idea on, it would mean that logic would be added to the program to stop you in future rezzing, healing or buffing PvP flagged toons .

 

This is the reason the flag is there, should someone be involved in world PvP and die there is no desire to allow an unflagged person to rez them and allow them to come back into the fight.

 

Only by making you get flagged on rezzing them or healing them is there "justice" available to the other side by them allowing you to be attacked too.

 

Should the developers take time to add all this logic and complexity to the program or should they just fix the debuff so it's not a flagable action and leave in the ability for you to rez a flagged player with you being flagged.

 

Consider this before answering: Say your best friend is down to the 10 minute respawn, they were in PvP mode, you are surrounded by elites. Do you rez them and take the flag yourself or do you sit there for 10 minutes waiting for their timer to reset so they can self rez.

 

Very simple. I NEVER want to flag PvP.

 

Ever.

 

If that means I can't buff or rez someone who was inconsiderate enough to try to quest with me while flagged, so be it. I'm all for having that be switchable.

 

That won't ever change.

 

My friends don't PvP either though, so that's not even going to be an issue.

 

I will NEVER be OK with someone else deciding for me that I should PvP.

[CrisG]

I was not aware of the Player vs Player problem and them trying to gain points by flagging ordinary players until a Guild member warned me. I did not know what to watch for so i just ignored it and am thru Tatooione the only PVP planet i have had to get thru so far safely. I am at level 30 now so i can defend myself fairly well. I actually recieved help from several starngers, players who noticed i was lying on the ground dead for the 10 minute time, and they revived me, which was very nice. I tried to do the same, help others in Boss fightts if i happened to be close and they were of the same affiliation as me, i try to follow the game story in that way, and hope others do too.

 

Griefers should be banned immediatlely and permenantly they are clear in what they do and they know what they do and they have no business in this fine game. I have no patience or tolerance for intentional harm caused in any form, and hope that Bioware keeps up high standards of tossing them out immediately. I will certainly report any and all I see for sure, and let them decide.

[Bhaers]

Very simple. I NEVER want to flag PvP.

 

Ever.

 

Such hostility. Take a breath, calm down and stop attacking me.

[Thornsbane]

Cmon this is silly. Unless they followed you around for half an hour its just a death in an MMO. You guys are sounding just a little bit too soft here.....

 

Some of the posts here sound like if the sensitive people on PvE servers get 'exposed' to some PvP they will just melt. Cmon, show a little backbone.

[Dralanna]

I agree that I cannot know the intent of the other Player in my own personal example. My ex could be the first to testify I cannot read minds.

 

However, I am willing to go forward with the circumstantial evidence that when someone detonates in a crowd of the Cantina area of the Fleet, probably had access to the known intel of the workings of the infection (ie; Mission and any Codex entries), and could have gotten aid at prior Med and Stim shops before reaching the Fleet (ie; seemingly only Origin worlds seem to lack serum), that it is likely their intent was not benevolant.

 

Their intent was not benevolent? I would think it more likely that their intent was to complete a quest the BW created or to acquire, and help others acquire resources (DNA samples) that BW rewards you for the infection.... lol, I'd think that was FAR more likely their intent than to make you mad.

 

And if it ain't Griefing, it is still a violation of the rules to include me in a Mission without permission on a PvE server; be it a PvP action or one of Joining for a Group, I believe.

 

Where does it say anywhere that someone has to ask your permission to use you to complete a quest?

[GnatB]

Cmon this is silly. Unless they followed you around for half an hour its just a death in an MMO. You guys are sounding just a little bit too soft here.....

 

Good players rarely die. Other than/stuck or falling deaths, I probably died at most 10 times total on my JK. (and over half of those deaths were against the final boss).

 

Don't believe any of my other characters have died at all (other than from this plague).

 

'Course, I cut my teeth on MMO's in EQ, a game where death actually meant something. In TOR, the death penalty is so rediculously trivial it may as well not exist. They really need to give death teeth. It SHOULD be something you fear and try to avoid, not something you just shrug off.

[Drakkip]

For some people it wasn't one death. They were corpse camped at the medic droid. It's a stupid bug and the same people who believe that exploiting a bug on a PVE server is ok, are likey the same people who thought heck why not after exploiting a bug and pvp flagging the guy corpse camp him at the rez spawn... Until he logs out in frustration.

 

I don't want people who think that way to be able to impact my gaming experience. I'm not here arguing that there shouldn't be PvP servers, heck, make a server where it is completely open PvP even on your same faction, that way all these people who get off on it can all congregate there. There's no reason however that people who elect to play on PVE servers should be corpse camped at the rez spawn for something they did NOT consent to.

[Calsetes]

I'd support a 'never flag for PVP settings option'.

Knowing that this will cause some in the PVP community to cry "Carebear"... please tell me what the disadvantage of such a setting would be?

 

They'd be mad that "there's no PvP community here on the PvE servers!!!" Then when they're pointed to PvP areas (like Outlaw's Den,) the PvP matches that are "sanctioned team-based PvP," that not everyone will be turning on their "no PvP Period" tags, and that there's entire PvP-only servers, they'll blame the non-PvPers for the death of PvP.

 

The bad ones, anyway. The "there's a level 20 guy, I'm level 50, time to show him what's what" ones, not the decent-personality ones. I like PvP every once in a great while, but on my terms. When I say "I want to fight other people!" Not when I'm playing a story or trying to grind out some money.

[Dralanna]

Hello there, folks. We would like to quickly remind everyone to please keep the Rules of Conduct in mind when posting on the forums. This includes being respectful of one another, even when you disagree.

 

In addition, please keep discussing the topic of this thread and do not deviate into semantics arguments about fact versus opinion. These posts are off topic and will be removed if they continue. Thank you for your understanding, and please enjoy your friendly debate!

 

With all due respect, fact vs opinion is entirely relevant to this discussion. In fact, I'd say it's at the very heart of it, as each side is essentially arguing which actions are covered by the rules of conduct and which aren't.

 

While I completely disagree with the OP's points... I due support his request for some comment from BW as to what is prohibited by the rules and what is acceptable in regard to this discussion.

[Elhanan]

I can see the money complaint but all medical bots had them as far as i know, honestly when i saw the complaining i was confused, even if someone infects you, you die after 20 minutes, you have plenty of time to get one or say hell with it, ill die and get 5 of the rakghoul stuff!

 

honestly i would have rather liked it if it progressed almost like the plague event in wow but not exactly like it of course, and actually turning you into a rakghoul at the very least, even if you died to the rakghoul plague you just hit the medprobe and you were back up in seconds.

 

The flagging for pvp part i get, but the rest of it just seems like people are complaining about nothing, you are playing a mmo, events happen, life may get disrupted for a week but then everything is back to normal, sure it might be weird if you are just starting out in the game, but then the events are usually more intended for level capped players.

 

Thing is, I did not know of any rewards at the time; first evening of Sun when I became infected. That said, I did not want any rewards, and gathered none this past week; leveled Alts instead, as at least two Origin planets seemed isolated (hopefully, as they did not have any vaccine).

 

And this thread is not to rip on the Event, but on Griefing. It spoils the game; by definition, and has no place in this MMO.

 

I get it; my example is highly debatable and questionable for many. Fine; we differ in thought on the rules. But a great number of people here, on past threads during the Event, etc have reported cases of Griefing that is on-going, and needs to end.

 

For me, it is not the loss of credits, time, etc; it is about that those that play to spoil the gameplay of others should be the ones to leave; not some of their frustrated victims. I have little empathy for the tactics of bullies (ie; Griefers).

[Elhanan]

This was not griefing. Your continual QQing about it though is....

 

Admitedly, this is a new environment for me. But as I believe QQ has something to do with quitting, and I am re-subbing and add the 30 free days Bioware gifted to me, it is possible that you misread something; possibly saw what you wanted to see perhaps.

[Elhanan]

I feel like this thread is griefing me

 

"There is no emotion; there is peace".

[Bhaers]

I believe QQ has something to do with quitting

 

No, QQ is complaining, crying. Usually with many many posts on the subject.

 

"There is no emotion; there is peace".

 

"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

Through passion, I gain strength.

Through strength, I gain power.

Through power, I gain victory.

Through victory, my chains are broken.

The Force shall free me."

Edited April 26, 2012 by Bhaers

[Dralanna]

Thing is, I did not know of any rewards at the time; first evening of Sun when I became infected. That said, I did not want any rewards, and gathered none this past week; leveled Alts instead, as at least two Origin planets seemed isolated (hopefully, as they did not have any vaccine).

 

And this thread is not to rip on the Event, but on Griefing. It spoils the game; by definition, and has no place in this MMO.

 

I get it; my example is highly debatable and questionable for many. Fine; we differ in thought on the rules. But a great number of people here, on past threads during the Event, etc have reported cases of Griefing that is on-going, and needs to end.

 

For me, it is not the loss of credits, time, etc; it is about that those that play to spoil the gameplay of others should be the ones to leave; not some of their frustrated victims. I have little empathy for the tactics of bullies (ie; Griefers).

 

The first time I ever played on a PvP server, to play with friends who had already rolled on the server, I was so concerned with being ganked. I hated the thought of it. My concern was so strong that I altered my play style in an attempt to avoid being ganked. In short, I did not enjoy playing. Eventually... I got ganked. At the moment, I had an epiphany... it wasn't that big a deal. I realized that the person that was ruining my game play was me. From that point on, I stopped worrying about it... I still didn't enjoy it... and I still took steps to avoid it... but I no longer stressed over it and my enjoyment of the game came back.

 

I'm not saying that we should ignore griefing.... but, and I'm trying to stress this as much as I can, while you clearly didn't like what happened to you, I assure you that was not what most people would consider griefing. True griefing is somewhat rare, in my experience... and completely disruptive, not just inconvenient.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Dralanna

[Elhanan]

I was not aware of the Player vs Player problem and them trying to gain points by flagging ordinary players until a Guild member warned me. I did not know what to watch for so i just ignored it and am thru Tatooione the only PVP planet i have had to get thru so far safely. I am at level 30 now so i can defend myself fairly well. I actually recieved help from several starngers, players who noticed i was lying on the ground dead for the 10 minute time, and they revived me, which was very nice. I tried to do the same, help others in Boss fightts if i happened to be close and they were of the same affiliation as me, i try to follow the game story in that way, and hope others do too.

 

Griefers should be banned immediatlely and permenantly they are clear in what they do and they know what they do and they have no business in this fine game. I have no patience or tolerance for intentional harm caused in any form, and hope that Bioware keeps up high standards of tossing them out immediately. I will certainly report any and all I see for sure, and let them decide.

 

Here I differ somewhat, as mistakes may occur. I would like each case to be judh=ged on its own merits; not tossed into a single mandatory, zero tolerant answer.

 

I agree that repeat offenders should be banned, and that there should be the same immediate penalty for more severe examples of Griefing (eg; Death threats, threatning familiy, etc).. But errors may occur in mechanics and communication far too often for me to ask the same for a first offense. IMO.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[Bhaers]

True griefing is somewhat rare, in my experience... and completely disruptive, not just inconvenient.

 

This is so true.

 

To use the most-griefed game as an example. True griefing was /b/ coming into a sim in Second Life and dropping self-replicating *****es that played the banana-phone music and would start following players until there were so many that the entire game would crash.

[Parasi]

What griefing? All you had to do was take a rakghoul serum and you'd be immune to the plague.

 

Exactly. There was no griefing in this event. The serum separated those who wanted to possibly participate in getting the plague and those who wanted to be immune for 6 hours at a time. This event was fun, and the ability to infect people was a great part of it. The best part was contested world bosses and PvP flagging. All of this was optional however, and very well done as you didn't have to be flagged and the serum saw to it that you wouldn't get the plague or get flagged.

[Elhanan]

Their intent was not benevolent? I would think it more likely that their intent was to complete a quest the BW created or to acquire, and help others acquire resources (DNA samples) that BW rewards you for the infection.... lol, I'd think that was FAR more likely their intent than to make you mad.

 

Where does it say anywhere that someone has to ask your permission to use you to complete a quest?

 

From Support:

How can I join a Group?

To create or join a group, a player either invites one or more character into a party or receives a group invite. If you are sent a group invite, you have the option to accept or decline the invitation. The player who sends out the initial invite is designated the group leader.

 

Please see Game Manual – Grouping for further details.