Morticoccus Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 You people won't be happy until every single class is made complete **** with boring gameplay and ho-hum playability won't you? And then you'll probably ***** and rave about how swtor "failed and is boring, blah blah blah" before moving on to some other game where you'll ***** about everything, get every class homogenized, refuse to l2p and destroy that game too. You nerfmongers are like some viral plague that goes from mmo to mmo and decimates them leaving only empty crap-filled husks behind you. You make me sick. Pretty much, and it's all because companies, and especially their investors, look at forums with search algorithms tuned to words like "anti-fun" and especially "unsubscribe". And the nerfmongers know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticoccus Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) I actually think it's the opposite. It's boring because you get 1 class that has it all. 1 class that has self heals, better defensive cooldowns than all tanking classes, stealth, 1 gap closer + 1 more if talented, on demand speed boost, and the highest dps possible in game right now. I think the only thing they are missing is a taunt. Then why not ask for more defensive CDs on tanks then? Or gap closers on operatives? Speed boosts up the *** on mercs or even better, a disengage lookalike so they can be as annoying as every REAL ranged player wants to be? Better self heals on powertech? Stealth on snipers? What you are forgetting is the fact that while sentinels do all these things they are still effectively a 1v1 class, in a PvP format where 1v1 fights only happen as a result of bad positioning. As for the DPS numbers, with kill times as low as they are now do they even matter? Edited April 22, 2012 by Morticoccus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwnshoppe Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Then why not ask for more defensive CDs on tanks then? Or gap closers on operatives? Speed boosts up the *** on mercs or even better, a disengage lookalike so they can be as annoying as every REAL ranged player wants to be? Better self heals on powertech? Stealth on snipers? What you are forgetting is the fact that while sentinels do all these things they are still effectively a 1v1 class, in a PvP format where 1v1 fights only happen as a result of bad positioning. As for the DPS numbers, with kill times as low as they are now do they even matter? Honestly, I would love that, but the fact is I already have a marauder that can do all of these things. My first love is my vanguard, but honestly, I'm just not competitive with the melee stompfest I face in warzones. If I wait around for changes, especially at the rate BW makes changes to their game, I'll probably still be getting stomped in 3 months. So for now I will continue playing my marauder, rolling around in 10/16 marauder/sentinel warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilim Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) People don't shrug off Marauders/Sentinels. http://swtormovies.com/movieview.php?id=3345 one of the better sentinel/marauder movies around. Doesn't really show skill, shows more him beating up on people that are actually geared and doing good damage, with a little control mixed in. The Sage, Seria, that he kills pretty damn quickly in a huttball is valor 100 and is not undergeared by any means. He kills that Sage by himself (watch if anyone else even hits him, you can add up the numbers and it's literally all him, maybe a LITTLE aoe hit him.) He kills him in 6 globals, one of them he ends short to execute. and I'm pretty sure that clip is pre-1.2. I watched this video. I had a good lol at one point where someone grabbed a huttball, then all the marauders/sentinels, guardians jugs, all jumped on eachother in the middle. It was just leap leap leap leap leap leap hahaha. giggity Edited April 22, 2012 by Exilim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeloDaoC Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Another problem is that as soon as you get a marauder near you you HAVE to keep them targeted at all time, you need to ready for that ravage at ALL time. If your getting hit by a marauder and a sorcerer, you cant fight the sorcerer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwnshoppe Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Then why not ask for more defensive CDs on tanks then? Or gap closers on operatives? Speed boosts up the *** on mercs or even better, a disengage lookalike so they can be as annoying as every REAL ranged player wants to be? Better self heals on powertech? Stealth on snipers? What you are forgetting is the fact that while sentinels do all these things they are still effectively a 1v1 class, in a PvP format where 1v1 fights only happen as a result of bad positioning. As for the DPS numbers, with kill times as low as they are now do they even matter? I think marauders are excellent 1vmany. the 99% reduction is the only defensive cooldown that effectively scales vs more than 1 opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloberts Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 vanguard talking about op damage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blloodbane Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I think marauders are excellent 1vmany. the 99% reduction is the only defensive cooldown that effectively scales vs more than 1 opponent. ok other than getting rid of it completely.... Whats your solution drop it to 75% make the skill orhtless... Drop it that doesnt stop tech damage, still worhtless... You do realize Mara's have an ability called beserk... Hmmm beserk, undying rage, etc... Oh thats right... a Mara should be there to be laughed at by any other class as no real threat (thats what they use to be)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwnshoppe Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 vanguard talking about op damage.... Heh, looking at my logs taken over the last 10 hours, the top 10 percent of hits are marauders, next 10 are snipers, some jugs, and pulling up the 70th percentile are vanguards/ops. All with 1/8th of the survivability cooldowns of a marauder. Honestly, I don't have to convince you of anything, I'll be happy to play my marauder until they either fix pvp damage or D3 comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwnshoppe Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 ok other than getting rid of it completely.... Whats your solution drop it to 75% make the skill orhtless... Drop it that doesnt stop tech damage, still worhtless... You do realize Mara's have an ability called beserk... Hmmm beserk, undying rage, etc... Oh thats right... a Mara should be there to be laughed at by any other class as no real threat (thats what they use to be)... My solution is make it a shield that does 99% reduction, and on each hit, the reduction decreases by 10%. Or, just rename it to sacrifice and have it kill the marauder when it expires. There are so many fundamental problems though. The fact is this class just has it all. I think the undying, camo, saber ward and cloak should all be 20+ point talents. Also, I'll let you pick one of those, and have it as a base skill. But all together it gives a solid 30-40seconds of damn near invincibility. Also, leap should be affected by resolve, and should fail if resolve is full. On the same token, I think roots and snare should be on resolve as well, because we can't make ranged too powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blloodbane Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Heh, looking at my logs taken over the last 10 hours, the top 10 percent of hits are marauders, next 10 are snipers, some jugs, and pulling up the 70th percentile are vanguards/ops. All with 1/8th of the survivability cooldowns of a marauder. Honestly, I don't have to convince you of anything, I'll be happy to play my marauder until they either fix pvp damage or D3 comes out. yea yea, just like everyone else who says something is OP, they happen toplay one too... truth be told they never say their Mara/Sent alt is like level 12 if they actually have one at all. FYI, BW already stated that Mara/Sent metrics were exactly in line as to what was they expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enexemander Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 yea yea, just like everyone else who says something is OP, they happen toplay one too... truth be told they never say their Mara/Sent alt is like level 12 if they actually have one at all. FYI, BW already stated that Mara/Sent metrics were exactly in line as to what was they expected. Not that you're wrong, but whenever bioware mentions "Metrics" I cringe a little. When you balance a game around just numbers, you're going to make a lot of stupid mistakes (see commando/mercenary healing in 1.2). Marauders are a little too good, but not terribly so. The problem with Marauders is that snipers and tanks (in actual tank gear) are rare in pvp. Both of those counter marauders perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Before 1.2, mara/sents were nasty, post 1.2, they're nastier- I get so tired of being rooted and ravaged/master struck everytime I see one. Mine is annihilation spec, takes more work to get kills with than carnage and rage does, I won't even touch rage because it takes setting up for that big smash and by the time 4 stacks of shockwave is done the target is either dead or kiting, as carnage gore + ravage for almost instant lol kill. The classes got buffs, minor ones, the only real nerf was camo getting reduced from 100% to 50% damage reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blloodbane Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) My solution is make it a shield that does 99% reduction, and on each hit, the reduction decreases by 10%. Or, just rename it to sacrifice and have it kill the marauder when it expires. There are so many fundamental problems though. The fact is this class just has it all. I think the undying, camo, saber ward and cloak should all be 20+ point talents. Also, I'll let you pick one of those, and have it as a base skill. But all together it gives a solid 30-40seconds of damn near invincibility. Also, leap should be affected by resolve, and should fail if resolve is full. On the same token, I think roots and snare should be on resolve as well, because we can't make ranged too powerful. The problem is with that, you wouldnt last a .5 a second... so many attacks and aoe's going off, might as well ditch the skill because it would be worthless. People think Resolve fills to quickly as is and you want to add roots and snares to that as well? Hutball would be who could run and survive the longest... BTW, NO ONE EVERY MENTIONS THIS... Mara/Sents have ZERO KB, Push or Pull ability.... So all those using traps and blowing people of bridges (or pulling) they can not doo... Shall Mara Sents start talking about how unfair everyone else can use these ability to INSTAKILL? WHOA... dad gum you just did 17K damage in 1 second... NERF! Edited April 22, 2012 by Blloodbane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwnshoppe Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 The problem is with that, you wouldnt last a .5 a second... so many attacks and aoe's going off, might as well ditch the skill because it would be worthless. People think Resolve fills to quickly as is and you want to add roots and snares to that as well? Hutball would be who could run and survive the longest... BTW, NO ONE EVERY MENTIONS THIS... Mara/Sents have ZERO KB, Push or Pull ability.... So all those using traps and blowing people of bridges (or pulling) they can not doo... Shall Mara Sents start talking about how unfair everyone else can use these ability to INSTAKILL? WHOA... dad gum you just did 17K damage in 1 second... NERF! My mara has a sprint, a leap, and 2 leaps if talented properly. 2 sprints if you count camo to close gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blloodbane Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Before 1.2, mara/sents were nasty, post 1.2, they're nastier- I get so tired of being rooted and ravaged/master struck everytime I see one. Mine is annihilation spec, takes more work to get kills with than carnage and rage does, I won't even touch rage because it takes setting up for that big smash and by the time 4 stacks of shockwave is done the target is either dead or kiting, as carnage gore + ravage for almost instant lol kill. The classes got buffs, minor ones, the only real nerf was camo getting reduced from 100% to 50% damage reduction. and you are wrong ... You honestly think a Carnage Mara is 2 button when? If they do kills something quick its squishly. You THINK its that easy to be a Carnage Mara? Mind you and all your "work" that a Carnage Mara has ZERO healing in the class tree right? You also realize a Carnage just cant just dot and go on the run and still do damage? Some people are clueless... I bet your Mara is sub 50 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxCarnage Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 This is so funny.. To all you people claiming that everyone is just whinning and qqing... just ****. The only reason you are defending this class so much is cause this is the class you play.. MY sage got NURFFFFFED! hard but guess what, im still playing my sage and sitting on the top of every wz. Stop pretending that you're not sitting behind your PC feeling invincable about pvp. How often do you find your self winning 1v1s? yeah you think it should be that way? Every class should have an anti class. What is yours? Of course BW is going to listen to the community. Guess why.. cause there are 7 other classes complaining about the broken pvp system. Just admit that you are over powered and ****! Take the nurf like we did and keep on going. End of Story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwnshoppe Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 and you are wrong ... You honestly think a Carnage Mara is 2 button when? If they do kills something quick its squishly. You THINK its that easy to be a Carnage Mara? Mind you and all your "work" that a Carnage Mara has ZERO healing in the class tree right? You also realize a Carnage just cant just dot and go on the run and still do damage? Some people are clueless... I bet your Mara is sub 50 too. you know you have to be 50 to wear recruit gear right? or did you just start reading from "last page"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blloodbane Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 My mara has a sprint, a leap, and 2 leaps if talented properly. 2 sprints if you count camo to close gaps. REALLY, TWO LEAPS? Which spec, because my Mara doesnt have two leaps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blloodbane Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 This is so funny.. To all you people claiming that everyone is just whinning and qqing... just ****. The only reason you are defending this class so much is cause this is the class you play.. MY sage got NURFFFFFED! hard but guess what, im still playing my sage and sitting on the top of every wz. Stop pretending that you're not sitting behind your PC feeling invincable about pvp. How often do you find your self winning 1v1s? yeah you think it should be that way? Every class should have an anti class. What is yours? Of course BW is going to listen to the community. Guess why.. cause there are 7 other classes complaining about the broken pvp system. Just admit that you are over powered and ****! Take the nurf like we did and keep on going. End of Story. Whats a Mara's anti class? Oh thats easy Gunslingers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blloodbane Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 you know you have to be 50 to wear recruit gear right? or did you just start reading from "last page"? yea and you have to be 50 to buy BM gear too, so whats your point? Are you BMC'ing about Expertise or Mara/Sent DPS? Make your mind up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwnshoppe Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 REALLY, TWO LEAPS? Which spec, because my Mara doesnt have two leaps... lol. do you have a marauder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macroecon Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Mara/Sent ARE indeed exactly where BW wants them. Their ingame stat collection metrics show that. That's why Mara/Sent aren't going to get nerfed. Deal with it. It will not be until after Season 1 is over that Mara/Sent get nerfed. At that time it will become evident to BM that the top teams and top players are Mara/Sents and whichever healers they choose to bring along. This is the dichotomy between using aggregated metrics across the entire player base vs. observing what happens with top players. The Mara/Sent class' ingame statistics are insulated by a vast base of poor performing players. Hence no nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DynamiCtagez Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Yawn. Marauders are fine. L2P kthxbye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fight Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Then by your own admission what Bioware does is not "normalizing" they are killing classes one by one, and you are just sore that your class got hit, and vengeful against the class that has been able to counter you since day one. Gunnery/Arsenal build was the big PvP crutch for the ranged half of the PvP DPS characters and anyone that could interrupt would screw its damage output over simply because of how dumbed down it was to start with, they made the build so that it had to spam. If you spam as a sent you will simply die the second you run into anyone with half a brain, and if you blow your cooldowns and then spam you will just trade kills with the opposing team, who happily will finish you off even if you got the original target. If all classes are "killed" they will end up equal, and I have not claimed anything outlandish in my post, he did. My post was a direct response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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