** How to fix Warzone Queues to prevent <8 per side **

[Zaodon]

Current system - Random:

• People queue for warzones
  
• The system waits for 8 people per side (including 4-person teams)
  
• The system sends invitations
  
• Flaw: if not everyone takes the invitation, you end up with 3v8, 4v8, 5v8, etc.
  

 

New System - Pairing:

 

Starting a new Warzone:

• People queue for warzones
  
• The system waits for *4* people per side (including 4-person teams)
  
• The system sends invitations
  
• When a player "Accepts" the invitation, they see a message: "Your warzone is now pending, please wait..." The player does not yet get teleported into the warzone. Optionally, this disables the ability to zone to a different area. (to prevent double zoning issues)
  
  • If all 4 people per side accept, the warzone starts and everyone is teleported in.
    
  • If anyone declines, everyone continues to "wait", while the system continues to check the queue and send invites until the minimum "Accepted" number of invitations is met.

 

Joining an existing Warzone:

• Once the warzone starts, the queue system will now GATE/RESTRICT further participants on a Pairing (1-for-1) basis as follows:
  
  • The system waits for 1 person to queue on each side (or 2 to queue from the same side if its a same-faction warzone which is running). Optionally, two 4-person teams could also queue and get invitations.
    
  • It sends invites to both people/teams using above mechanics ("pending" followed by "everyone accepts" and they all zone in, or if anyone declines, it keeps waiting for more people until it gets the required "Accepts")

 

Deserters/Quitters/disconnects/etc.:

• Fill that spot with the FIRST legal queue. Then return back to the pairing system.
  

 

 

Final Result:

• WZs now start 4v4. This helps low pop servers A LOT.
  
• From that point, only PAIRS can be added (or a pair of 4-person teams)
  
• This means every single WZ in the entire game will start as: 4v4, 5v5, 6v6, 7v7, or 8v8. No other starting combo is possible.
  
• In addition, other than during a replacement period, there can NEVER be more than a 1 person difference between the sides (well, unless multiple people leave all at the same moment with no one left to requeue, but hey, it can't perform miracles here...)
  

 

Discuss.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Zaodon

[cycao]

I like it

[Moosimoo]

Not criticising this, as in theory its a good idea, but what happens if you are in a PvE or PvP fight when this queue pops and the UI is disabled? What about if you are not in combat but you are fleeing from a higher level enemy player who is chasing you to your instance? Disabling zoning means you can't escape in that scenario.

[primalrage]

In theory easy for them to put in place. Me Gusta this idea however something would need to be put in place for being killed while waiting for people to accept / decline the offer (PvP servers? In a leveling zone when Q pops etc). Other than the above really good idea.

 

Primal

[Zaodon]

Not criticising this, as in theory its a good idea, but what happens if you are in a PvE or PvP fight when this queue pops and the UI is disabled? What about if you are not in combat but you are fleeing from a higher level enemy player who is chasing you to your instance? Disabling zoning means you can't escape in that scenario.

 

Option 1. Decline. Requeue when you're not in such a position.

Option 2. The system can allow you to release to medcenter if you die (as exception to the "prevent zoning".)

Option 3. Don't prevent zoning. Not even sure it needs to prevent zoning here, but it could be a problem if you start to zone, and then the "all accept" fires and the game tries to zone you into the WZ while you're mid-zone...

Edited April 16, 2012 by Zaodon

[Subatomix]

There are many, many ways to fix the current system. It's nice that you posted a thoughtful suggestion, but the facts remain:

 

- Bioware took a bad system and made it worse. Seriously, removing the abort timer?

 

- Bioware hasn't made a single comment about the terrible disaster 1.2 has been. I mean it's one thing to make a mistake and admit it. It's another to just keep on rolling forward as if nothing is wrong.

 

Many of us are hoping our cancelled subscriptions will send a note. If not, there will be other games.

[Golren]

I like.

[Baron_Samedi]

Was proposing something similar, but this is more elaborate and detail-based.

 

Love it, gz!!

[Zaodon]

I refined my idea a little and updated the OP.

 

Instead of "aborting" and putting you back in queue, you just remain "pending" until it can find more "Accepts". Same thing, really. But less pop-ups in your face, so, better UI design/playability.

[Zaodon]

added color for effect!

[Khoraji]

not a bad idea actually. Hooray for 1 good forum idea!

 

As someone above said, the "pending" could get annoying if your doing something else while Q'ing. But that annoyance is small compared to 5v8 warzones. Hell even 7v8 is a big disadvantage. I think this would go a long way to solving the QQ about 1.2

[AHChrist]

A really quick fix would be to turn off the auto que after a warzone. The person should physically have to queue again when they are ready. What is happening is people from the previous wz are still in queue, a warzone pops as soon as they load in, they aren't in their premades so they all drop queue, some unlucky pugger gets a queue, the premade re-queues, however, they won't get that same warzone again because the random pugger just took a slot. The warzone starts with 5vs8.

 

Also let companions join warzones that don't have 8 people and give them a under-dog presence buff. Some of those compaions are more useful than people

Edited April 16, 2012 by AHChrist

[Zaodon]

A really quick fix would be to turn off the auto que after a warzone. The person should physically have to queue again when they are ready. What is happening is people from the previous wz are still in queue, a warzone pops as soon as they load in, they aren't in their premades so they all drop queue, some unlucky pugger gets a queue, the premade re-queues, however, they won't get that same warzone again because the random pugger just took a slot. The warzone starts with 5vs8.

 

That is an astoundingly acute observation... Good Post !!!

[cycao]

I would not mind seeing that if entering a loosing warzone (which 90% of the time you are loosing and end up loosing) you start with whatever medals the person quit had or start with something.

[Zepath]

A really quick fix would be to turn off the auto que after a warzone.

 

QFT!!!!! I can't tell you how many times I've been counted as someone in the queue who wanted to play (because of auto-queueing) and I have no intention of playing another round .... but the game has already been launched and the invites sent.

[Zaodon]

I would not mind seeing that if entering a loosing warzone (which 90% of the time you are loosing and end up loosing) you start with whatever medals the person quit had or start with something.

 

Eh, if someone quits its likely they had none.

 

A better idea is to have a "Join cutoff" point. After the cutoff, that Warzone no longer invites anyone to join. This should be a measure of time, not score, because comebacks are possible *IF* there is enough time left to achieve them. So, if >50% of the time is gone, it won't invite more people.

 

For games with no timers (civil war, nov coast), use a score-based cutoff:

- Civil war: if losing teams score <= half of winning teams score (considered "no win")

- Nov Coast: if losing team <20% while winning is over 80%

Edited April 16, 2012 by Zaodon

[mordredz]

Current system - Random:

• People queue for warzones
  
• The system waits for 8 people per side (including 4-person teams)
  
• The system sends invitations
  
• Flaw: if not everyone takes the invitation, you end up with 3v8, 4v8, 5v8, etc.
  

 

New System - Pairing:

 

Starting a new Warzone:

• People queue for warzones
  
• The system waits for *4* people per side (including 4-person teams)
  
• The system sends invitations
  
• When a player "Accepts" the invitation, they see a message: "Your warzone is now pending, please wait..." The player does not yet get teleported into the warzone. Optionally, this disables the ability to zone to a different area. (to prevent double zoning issues)
  
  • If all 8 people (4 per side) accept, the warzone starts and everyone is teleported in.
    
  • If anyone declines, everyone continues to "wait", while the system continues to check the queue and send invites until the minimum "Accepted" number of invitations is met.

 

Joining an existing Warzone:

• Once the warzone starts, the queue system will now GATE/RESTRICT further participants on a Pairing (1-for-1) basis as follows:
  
  • The system waits for 1 person to queue on each side (or 2 to queue from the same side if its a same-faction warzone which is running). Optionally, two 4-person teams could also queue and get invitations.
    
  • It sends invites to both people/teams using above mechanics ("pending" followed by "everyone accepts" and they all zone in, or if anyone declines, it keeps waiting for more people until it gets the required "Accepts")

 

Deserters/Quitters/disconnects/etc.:

• Fill that spot with the FIRST legal queue. Then return back to the pairing system.
  

 

 

Final Result:

• WZs now start 4v4. This helps low pop servers A LOT.
  
• From that point, only PAIRS can be added (or a pair of 4-person teams)
  
• This means every single WZ in the entire game will start as: 4v4, 5v5, 6v6, 7v7, or 8v8. No other starting combo is possible.
  
• In addition, other than during a replacement period, there can NEVER be more than a 1 person difference between the sides (well, unless multiple people leave all at the same moment with no one left to requeue, but hey, it can't perform miracles here...)
  

 

Discuss.

 

Great ideas all around, if you can supply the Coding to do all of this with the current system im sure they would, but its not that easy or this would be a reality by now...

[cycao]

QFT!!!!! I can't tell you how many times I've been counted as someone in the queue who wanted to play (because of auto-queueing) and I have no intention of playing another round .... but the game has already been launched and the invites sent.

 

Double QFT here. This happens numerous times for me each night...another PvP design that I cannot wrap my head around.

[Bullwrath]

I agree with the OP that this queue system sucks and needs to be fixed ASAP.

 

In 3rd grade kickball we knew how to pick even teams, why is it so hard for the adults at Bioware?

 

I disagree with the OP on one point, however. I don't believe the system waits until there are 8 people queueing per side. I think the system actually pops when you have 5. There are a number of times that I have been in WZs with the same 5 people in multiple games.

 

I could be wrong, but I believe the current system is even worse than the OP thinks.

[Zaodon]

Great ideas all around, if you can supply the Coding to do all of this with the current system im sure they would, but its not that easy or this would be a reality by now...

 

Here is the basics:

 

function CreateNewWarzone() {
 int warzone = rng(1,4); // choose one of the 4 warzones

 Enumeration teamA = fillTeam(teamA);
 Enumeration teamB = fillTeam(teamB);
 boolean wzReady = false;
 while (!wzReady) {
   sendInvites(teamA);
   sendInvites(teamB);
   while (!haveAllAcceptedOrDeclined(teamA) & !haveAllAcceptedOrDeclined(teamB)) {
      // pause 10 milliseconds
   }
   if (hasAllAccepted(teamA) & hasAllAccepted(teamB) {
      wzReady = true;
   } 
   else {
     teamA = removeDeclines(teamA);
     teamB = removeDeclines(teamB);
     teamA = fillTeam(teamA);
     teamB = fillTeam(teamB);
   }
 }
 startWarzone(warzone,teamA,teamB);
}

function fillTeam(Enumeration teamToFill) {
 Player player = getPlayerFromQueue();
 Team team = getTeamFromQueue();
 while (count(teamToFill)<4) {
     int spaceAvail = 4 - count(teamToFill);
     if (team !=null && (count(team) <= spaceAvail)) {
           teamToFill.append = team;
     }
     else if (player != null) {
       teamToFill.append (player);
     }
     player = getPlayerFromQueue();
     team = getTeamFromQueue();
 }
}

 

I'm sure they can do the rest.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Zaodon

[Zaodon]

I agree with the OP that this queue system sucks and needs to be fixed ASAP.

 

In 3rd grade kickball we knew how to pick even teams, why is it so hard for the adults at Bioware?

 

I disagree with the OP on one point, however. I don't believe the system waits until there are 8 people queueing per side. I think the system actually pops when you have 5. There are a number of times that I have been in WZs with the same 5 people in multiple games.

 

I could be wrong, but I believe the current system is even worse than the OP thinks.

 

I clearly stated that it starts 4v4..... reading fail ?

[Lohengrin]

[*] When a player "Accepts" the invitation, they see a message: "Your warzone is now pending, please wait..." The player does not yet get teleported into the warzone. Optionally, this disables the ability to zone to a different area. (to prevent double zoning issues)

 

I love this part - I have NEVER understood why it starts the WZ before everyone has accepted, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It is infuriating. If they make ONE change to warzones, please please let it be this

 

Additionally, I don't know why joining a WZ in progress gives people the same 1 min timer. If you have 7 in a WZ, and the next person gets the pop and they wait the full timer and decide not to go in, that is a full minute the WZ has been without a player (unless I am misunderstanding the queueing mechanics). There should be a different mechanic for joining a WZ in progress, no timer and first come first serve.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Lohengrin

[Ilharess]

I'd love to see a mechanics like this in the game. It will not solve the problem of people leaving a loosing WZ but I don't think anything would. As for now it is the best solution I've seen.

[Tipkaee]

Current system - Random:

• People queue for warzones
  
• The system waits for 8 people per side (including 4-person teams)
  
• The system sends invitations
  
• Flaw: if not everyone takes the invitation, you end up with 3v8, 4v8, 5v8, etc.
  

 

New System - Pairing:

 

Starting a new Warzone:

• People queue for warzones
  
• The system waits for *4* people per side (including 4-person teams)
  
• The system sends invitations
  
• When a player "Accepts" the invitation, they see a message: "Your warzone is now pending, please wait..." The player does not yet get teleported into the warzone. Optionally, this disables the ability to zone to a different area. (to prevent double zoning issues)
  
  • If all 4 people per side accept, the warzone starts and everyone is teleported in.
    
  • If anyone declines, everyone continues to "wait", while the system continues to check the queue and send invites until the minimum "Accepted" number of invitations is met.

 

Joining an existing Warzone:

• Once the warzone starts, the queue system will now GATE/RESTRICT further participants on a Pairing (1-for-1) basis as follows:
  
  • The system waits for 1 person to queue on each side (or 2 to queue from the same side if its a same-faction warzone which is running). Optionally, two 4-person teams could also queue and get invitations.
    
  • It sends invites to both people/teams using above mechanics ("pending" followed by "everyone accepts" and they all zone in, or if anyone declines, it keeps waiting for more people until it gets the required "Accepts")

 

Deserters/Quitters/disconnects/etc.:

• Fill that spot with the FIRST legal queue. Then return back to the pairing system.
  

 

 

Final Result:

• WZs now start 4v4. This helps low pop servers A LOT.
  
• From that point, only PAIRS can be added (or a pair of 4-person teams)
  
• This means every single WZ in the entire game will start as: 4v4, 5v5, 6v6, 7v7, or 8v8. No other starting combo is possible.
  
• In addition, other than during a replacement period, there can NEVER be more than a 1 person difference between the sides (well, unless multiple people leave all at the same moment with no one left to requeue, but hey, it can't perform miracles here...)
  

 

Discuss.

 

Are we even sure if the old system sends out 8 invites? I have so many low population games I wonder if the minimum threshold is closer to 6. Ether way the fact that a game starts with uneven populations is a joke. Even if BW cant make the OP's system work, they could probably make it so that a warzone will not start unless it is even for both sides. (As in you cant leave spawn before teams are balanced)

[Ahhmyface]

I'm glad your whining and moaning has finally resulted in something constructive and useful.

 

I absolutely love the paired queue design. That should have been in from the start.