Scaling PVP Deserter Debuff

[Achyuta]

Yesterday I brought my 6 month old to the Avengers movie and she started crying in the theatre. So I rocked her but stayed in the theatre and after 10 minutes she stopped crying. Anyway, all these idiots start yelling at me not to bring a 6 month old to the theatre and giving me dirty looks. I am like, dude, my baby is more important than a stupic Avengers movie. So I agree with the above.

 

When I go to the movies if I want to talk to my friend some times ill walk around and chat etc I even talk on my phone and play a video game or two? It may be a business call and work is more important than an Ironman, Thor movie.

 

Whats that? There are other people in the theatre?

 

Perfect example! love it! lol

[dkangl]

d/c is not a problem in this game. Get a better computer or a better spouse that can let you play for 15 minutes at a time. No need to punish other people with a serial quiter or d/c'er.

 

Sorry but if you can't stay connected to the game you are just as bad as the quiters.

 

You are truely the most idiotic person I have seen if you actually believe there is a not a D/C problem..

 

I D/C 5-7 times a day all after 2.1 patch not my puter nor internet it is their issue not mine.

Edited May 7, 2012 by dkangl

[olagaton]

RL always > In-game, so if someone needs to leave intentionally or disconnects involuntarily, they shouldn't have any limits place on them that will just compound their lack of playtime even more.

 

Sometimes you just need your 3 wins to complete your daily before you log for the night, but continually get stuck with sub-par players, or against the same pre-made over and over again. Premades have a choice of who they want to group with; solo queuers should also have the same option (via leaving the WZ).

Edited May 8, 2012 by olagaton

[Achyuta]

Sometimes you just need your 3 wins to complete your daily before you log for the night, but continually get stuck with sub-par players, or against the same pre-made over and over again. Premades have a choice of who they want to group with; solo queuers should also have the same option (via leaving the WZ).

 

And this is why you should be penalized. Yes, I want to hurry and get my 3 wins as well, but that isn't what the warzones are intended for. It isn't fair to other players for you to leave the warzone early just because you don't like how it starts... People que for the warzones to compete against each to win the battle, not to leave because they feel the group sucks. I don't know how else to put this... It's almost like you made a commitment to be apart of the group when you qued. You made the commitment to help the team to a victory and yet because you hate the group, you leave. No... if you leave early you should get a debuff. If you don't want the debuff, then don't be a pansy and quit. Warzones aren't about you, they are about the team. You can't win a warzone solo, but if you do your best for the team, you have a better chance at winning.

 

Again, SWG, WoW, and other MMOs had the debuffs... it was standard and accepted. People just don't want to be held accountable for being lame and ditching others. I come from a world of pvp where we don't quit... We fight until we can't fight anymore. With this attitude, I have seen many losing situations turn into victories. That is why I believe there should be a debuff for leaving early and possibly screwing up any chance that team has to win.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Achyuta

[olagaton]

And this is why you should be penalized. Yes, I want to hurry and get my 3 wins as well, but that isn't what the warzones are intended for.

Ultimately, the Warzones are intended to be there for whatever keeps the paying customers coming back. If that's for PvP action, so be it. If that's for getting your dailies done, so be it. If that's for a time sync, so be it.

 

It isn't fair to other players for you to leave the warzone early just because you don't like how it starts... People que for the warzones to compete against each to win the battle, not to leave because they feel the group sucks.

Unfortunately, there are many people that do not feel the same as you. Many people come into WZ's simply to pass the time. Some people play WZ's to get medals, not to compete for wins. Some people play WZ's to parse/test builds. There are many more reasons why people do WZ's that do not match exactly what you've said, and when 7 other people are going to play a huge part in whether you are able to complete the goal you set out to accomplish, then you need to have an opportunity to decide whether it's a waste of your time, or whether it's worth staying in.

 

I don't know how else to put this... It's almost like you made a commitment to be apart of the group when you qued. You made the commitment to help the team to a victory and yet because you hate the group, you leave.

Obviously there is no commitment, because people can leave the queue after it pops, instead of joining the game, leaving the team that did join short-handed (even if it's just until a replacement fills the spot). I think you are inaccurately placing a value on the queue-join that isn't the same true value for everyone. For many, it's not that type of commitment. For many, it's an "option", just like doing PvE dailies and Heroics and raids are an "option" that can be quit at any time.

 

You can't win a warzone solo, but if you do your best for the team, you have a better chance at winning.

If a player does his best for 3 days straight, is forced to stay in groups that have different goals than his, and is still working on the same daily 3 days later, that's a broken mechanic. Players shouldn't be forced to play with bad players, if they don't want to. PvE doesn't have to. Neither does PvP.

 

Again, SWG, WoW, and other MMOs had the debuffs... it was standard and accepted. People just don't want to be held accountable for being lame and ditching others.

I don't consider any of those games to be successful in the "pvp" sense.

[aRtFuL]

Instead of these silly penalty suggestions, we should have a handicap system in place where:

 

1. Once a team has less players than the opponent, there is no longer a 1 badge minimum requirement for the team.

 

2. For every player less, everyone in the team gets 1/8 more of their own total comms at the end for every man short (ie. the handicap bonus)

 

For example:

1 man short, everyone in the team gets a 1/8 increase in the comms they get at the end

2 man short, everyone in the team gets a 2/8 increase in the comms they get at the end

 

This way people are encouraged to stay in game and to try to fight it out even if short-manned.

 

Also, BW should remove the ability to join a game that is already in process. Let failed games finish quickly please.

[Foxrynn]

I say invoke a "reserved compensation" system for warzones... By that I mean if a person leaves a warzone, they are marked with a debuff. If that person marked with said debuff reques for a new Warzone and wins, they recieve only HALF the reward/compensation and debuff removed. If the person continues to lose warzones the debuff will not stack but only stay there till they win.

[olagaton]

Instead of these silly penalty suggestions, we should have a handicap system in place where:

 

1. Once a team has less players than the opponent, there is no longer a 1 badge minimum requirement for the team.

 

2. For every player less, everyone in the team gets 1/8 more of their own total comms at the end for every man short (ie. the handicap bonus)

 

For example:

1 man short, everyone in the team gets a 1/8 increase in the comms they get at the end

2 man short, everyone in the team gets a 2/8 increase in the comms they get at the end

 

This way people are encouraged to stay in game and to try to fight it out even if short-manned.

 

Also, BW should remove the ability to join a game that is already in process. Let failed games finish quickly please.

Not a bad start. The general idea is that penalties make people stop playing. Benefits to those that get screwed keep people playing.

[oompadouche]

Bioware hire this guy if you want to kill PVP completely in your game. please!!

 

If i choose to quit a game because i dont want to play that warzone why should i get penalized for it? I hate civil war and because i pay a subscription i should be allow to quit what ever warzone i choose with out a penalty unless its a rated warzone and then yes i think there should be some kind of penalty.

[Phatkillz]

d/c is not a problem in this game. Get a better computer or a better spouse that can let you play for 15 minutes at a time. No need to punish other people with a serial quiter or d/c'er.

 

Sorry but if you can't stay connected to the game you are just as bad as the quiters.

 

No problems with disconnects my ***, try reading the boards before making such a lubricious unqualified comment. Just do a search for error 9000 and you will find plenty of people having disconnect issues.

 

I get constant disconnects, I have alt tabbed as soon as I see the game start to disconnect, opened a browser and have had no problem going to multiple websites before I finally get disconnected. So don't tell me the game has no problems with disconnects.

[Achyuta]

Ultimately, the Warzones are intended to be there for whatever keeps the paying customers coming back. If that's for PvP action, so be it. If that's for getting your dailies done, so be it. If that's for a time sync, so be it.

 

You missed my point. Warzones is a group effort, not individual.

 

Unfortunately, there are many people that do not feel the same as you. Many people come into WZ's simply to pass the time. Some people play WZ's to get medals, not to compete for wins. Some people play WZ's to parse/test builds. There are many more reasons why people do WZ's that do not match exactly what you've said, and when 7 other people are going to play a huge part in whether you are able to complete the goal you set out to accomplish, then you need to have an opportunity to decide whether it's a waste of your time, or whether it's worth staying in.

 

I agree, but at the same time, if you decide to leave early, there should be some sort of penalty for that. Why? Because no one likes to be in constant losing situations, which has a high potential of happening when people leave early.

 

Obviously there is no commitment, because people can leave the queue after it pops, instead of joining the game, leaving the team that did join short-handed (even if it's just until a replacement fills the spot). I think you are inaccurately placing a value on the queue-join that isn't the same true value for everyone. For many, it's not that type of commitment. For many, it's an "option", just like doing PvE dailies and Heroics and raids are an "option" that can be quit at any time.

 

Again, you are right and there still should be a penalty... I don't have a problem with people quitting before the match starts. I have a problem with them quitting because they leave after it starts. Once that timer counts down and the wz starts, you made the choice to stay. It sucks when people leave just because they are losing and that's why there should be a penalty.

 

If a player does his best for 3 days straight, is forced to stay in groups that have different goals than his, and is still working on the same daily 3 days later, that's a broken mechanic. Players shouldn't be forced to play with bad players, if they don't want to. PvE doesn't have to. Neither does PvP.

 

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Yes, this sucks and I've been in this situation many times... but, groups have a better chance of winning when everyone stays and fight. Again, Warzones are team games, not solo, regardless of people's goals. You leave because you are losing, you should get a debuff for it.

 

I don't consider any of those games to be successful in the "pvp" sense.

 

Your opinion doesn't hold merit to the facts. It doesn't matter how anyone perceives the quality of PVP in this game. The fact is that the Warzones are team games and if you don't want to be a part of the team AFTER the wz started, then you should get penalized.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Achyuta

[aRtFuL]

The fact is that the Warzones are team games and if you don't want to be a part of the team AFTER the wz started, then you should get penalized.

 

But it doesn't change the fact that penalty is NOT a good way at all to force people to stay in game. People are going to leave regardless if they don't see their effort is being recognised.

 

A handicap system, on the other hand, by far encourages people to stay in game more than penalty. Handicap system, like the one I've mentioned, is NOT rewarding people for failure - it is recognising player's effort to be courageous and have heart in sticking to a fight. It is like giving out Purple Hearts or a prosmethus Medal of Valor.

 

Severe penalty only serves to drive people away, especially in this game where world pvp and getting ganked is so rare because most quest areas are so separated - there is really no incentive or necessity to pvp to get gear for world pvp because world pvp doesn't happen anyways, which ended up making pvp progression pointless and dull in many aspects in this game.

Edited May 8, 2012 by aRtFuL

[Achyuta]

But it doesn't change the fact that penalty is NOT a good way at all to force people to stay in game. People are going to leave regardless if they don't see their effort is being recognised.

 

No it isn't a good way, but what else do you do? I don't want to hop from wz to wz until I get my dailies done. I also don't want to be consistently losing because people leave after the wz starts. At least this slows them down from hopping around warzones and it does help to keep players from leaving after the wz started... if you want to hurry and get your daily done, guess what? Don't leave!

 

It's not forcing anyone to do anything, it's addressing a problem and helping players be more aware than selfish. I dunno... I guess I was raised with some values... things like do unto others as you'd want them to do unto you. Everyone hates it when people leave after the warzone started, but it's different when you do it? Think.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Achyuta

[Foxrynn]

If you want to cut down the amount of people leaving warzones and such, you can't place a complete lockout on someone all it will do is cause people to do is just horse play around in the warzone giving rats *** about the objective. You pretty much have to bargain with them. Like I said before, give them an incentive to play it out..

 

I say invoke a "reserved compensation" system for warzones... By that I mean if a person leaves a warzone, they are marked with a debuff. If that person marked with said debuff reques for a new Warzone and wins, they recieve only HALF the reward/compensation and debuff removed. If the person continues to lose warzones the debuff will not stack but only stay there till they win.

 

Half the reward of a win is a little over if not equal to a loss. So in turn there will be no reason to leave a warzone unless they just really do hate being there. That can easily be said for myself (Voidstar can go play chicken with a planet for all I care). Granted this will not fully fix the leaving problem but only to decrease the amount of quits

[aRtFuL]

No it isn't a good way, but what else do you do? I don't want to hop from wz to wz until I get my dailies done. I also don't want to be consistently losing because people leave after the wz starts. At least this slows them down from hopping around warzones and it does help to keep players from leaving after the wz started... if you want to hurry and get your daily done, guess what? Don't leave!

 

It's not forcing anyone to do anything, it's addressing a problem and helping players be more aware than selfish. I dunno... I guess I was raised with some values... things like do unto others as you'd want them to do unto you. Everyone hates it when people leave after the warzone started, but it's different when you do it? Think.

 

Why are you only quoting that one line, while not even address my point about a handicap system vs a penalty system?

 

Yolu only choose to argue the bit of personal opinion (which is no point in arguing, sicne different people have different opinions), but not address that part where I highlighted on solutions (which is, in fact, the key to this thread)?

 

For example the poster above me is being pragmatic and addressing the issues, he/she is debating about a fix (which is addressing the point of this thread), NOT other people's values and opinions.

 

Finally, if a handicap/incentive system addresses the same issue but achieve a better result than a penalty system, then why are people so insistent on a penalty system that ultimately discourages participation??

Edited May 8, 2012 by aRtFuL

[KryptikX]

I also don't want to be consistently losing because people leave after the wz starts.

 

It's not forcing anyone to do anything, it's addressing a problem and helping players be more aware than selfish. I dunno... I guess I was raised with some values... things like do unto others as you'd want them to do unto you. Everyone hates it when people leave after the warzone started, but it's different when you do it? Think.

 

If people are consistently leaving warzones you are in, it might be time to consider that you are the problem. Seriously, I leave, and see others leave, maybe 5% of the matches I am in. Is the rate really that different for you? If it is, like I said, the problem may not be the warzone or the quitter.

 

Also, "do unto others as you'd want them to do unto you"? I don't want people to feel obligated to stay in a warzone. I would rather they leave and have the chance of getting someone who wants to play in that particular warzone with the players present. And if we don't get that happy backfill? So what, give the other team hell and make them earn their win. So.. yeah, I occasionally leave a warzone early, and have absolutely no issue with others doing it.

 

Furthermore, the developers already talked about a debuff for leaving ranked warzones (you know, the ones that actually count for something, as opposed to casual unranked).

[olagaton]

Your opinion.

The FACT remains that if you join a warzone, you have no clue whether the goal of your existing team is to collectively "WIN" that warzone. So you should be able to leave, without penalty.

[Achyuta]

The FACT remains that if you join a warzone, you have no clue whether the goal of your existing team is to collectively "WIN" that warzone. So you should be able to leave, without penalty.

 

Why not work for it? I've been in plenty of Warzones where it started off bad and we ended up winning it. People's values suck nowadays. No one wants to work for things (doesn't matter if it's a game or RL), it seems, anymore.

 

Maybe instead of penalties, they should change the dailies from winning a warzone to completing a warzone.

[wigglebooty]

d/c is not a problem in this game. Get a better computer or a better spouse that can let you play for 15 minutes at a time. No need to punish other people with a serial quiter or d/c'er.

 

Sorry but if you can't stay connected to the game you are just as bad as the quiters.

 

That is the typical response from the typical poster that continues to ruin game after game by crying on the forums. Good job dear sir, good job indeed, I was for sure the meatheads did not play computer game what with all their fan dangled buttons to press and what not, but it's nice to see them, stepping into the 20th century. D/CSS have very little to do with computers if at all and everything to do with networks, and individual players have no control over the network they play on outside of their house. I have experienced only 2 dc's ever since beta of this game however i know plenty that deal with it on a daily basis and I can assure you it is not their fault or the fault of their computer. If you would like people to stop leaving wz's possibly you should stop q'ing and bringing down your team because you seem to be the common denominator.

[olagaton]

Why not work for it? I've been in plenty of Warzones where it started off bad and we ended up winning it. People's values suck nowadays. No one wants to work for things (doesn't matter if it's a game or RL), it seems, anymore.

Why would anyone choose to play a game in which you couldn't escape a situation where you are trying to take 2 steps forward, but the rest of your team is consistently pulling you 5 steps back?

 

How do you think level 50 raiders would feel if they had to leave a raid early (either intentional or not), and the next time they ran a raid they were only rewarded with level 40 gear? I doubt they would agree to it.

 

Simply put, if you don't feel your goals match those of your teammates, you get new teammates.

 

Maybe instead of penalties, they should change the dailies from winning a warzone to completing a warzone.

It has been changed this way now. While it's not a flawless change, its at least a step in the right direction. Wow, no penalty enforced!

Edited May 8, 2012 by olagaton

[Jica]

Rather than a debuff, you could force a title on the player quitting for the next hour (or whatever seems reasonable) saying "X the Warzone Quitter" for all to see.

[richardya]

If people are consistently leaving warzones you are in, it might be time to consider that you are the problem. Seriously, I leave,

 

That is really clever. Except, if someone wins 60% of his matches and loses 40%, he will still see the same quitters (ie you) who can't handle losing in those 40% of his matches. I know it is part of the psychology of the quitter to blame others because in his deluded mind he is without fault, and you apply the same thinking to this thread. If you don't like quitters than you are bad.

 

If every player quit 5% of his matches as you do then PvP would end.

Thankfully most players aren't selfish and can deal with losing and attempting comebacks.

Edited May 11, 2012 by richardya

[olagaton]

Thankfully most players aren't selfish and can deal with losing and attempting comebacks.

Oddly enough, Selfish is a relative term. Are the people leaving the warzone selfish, or are the people that want to force others to stay being selfish?

 

Something to think about.....