Zintiel Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 People claimed healers were broken in 1.1 because they could run around in circles self healing and staying alive or healing others if they were not being focused. As DPS myself I never had any problem focusing a healer either by myself or with allies, though I constantly heard the whine from others. OMG healers are so broken. Why won't they ever die? To them I'd ask, "Isn't healing and staying alive their whole job? If they're dying, aren't they doing it wrong?" From the beginning healers got the short end of the stick with warzone medals, but at least they got some credit, and usually a decent team would pass along their votes to them if they were a good healer. Now my DPS has been given a buff in 1.2, giving me an even easier time killing healers. Before expertise gave me the same benefit straight down the board. Now I have surged ahead in damage, as if I wanted or even needed a dps buff. Healing output however, has stayed almost exactly the same. For the last few days I notice in most warzones I do not get heals anymore. Looking around and people and their classes, very few if any in the warzones are playing healers at all unless they're like a dps specced merc throwing a heal occasionally. Every time I enter the fray I do some dps and then I die, rinse and repeat. I do not like dying over and over. This is not fun. I do not like being without any healers because they are rerolling or quitting. The fix: give healers the same benefit as DPS with expertise. Add more healing badges, cause the silly 'heal people who are doing the killing for you' is silly. Bring the healers back plzthx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emartell Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Wow. A DPS who appreciates heals? Thanks ! The constant complaints of not being able to kill a healer when no one realizes that it is beneficial to have a healer on your team who can survive. Why? So they can heal you!! Genius right!??? Yay for the new dailies I guess because I'll go back to PvE while they figure it out. It was hard enough to be unappreciated by your team but not being appreciated by the devs takes the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMCH Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 It's sad to say, but the char I'm the least frustrated with atm is my heal merc, not only because of the lack of healers, but because it's the only of my lvl 50 chars with which I can have the impression to not be totally crap, even if I know I'm almost insignificant in a fight with her starter gear and the nerfs. The "healers are unkillable" people should really think about how hard it is to have any impact, even if we were healing twice the DPS thrown by a sent/mara it wouldn't mechanically become god mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoKiei Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 The outcome of warzones before 1.2 were far, far too dependedent upon the exsistence of healing classes being on your team(or the enemies). Personally if I had to choose between healers or 1.2 with never seeing a healer again, I will happily choose to never see a healer again. That said the people who say healers aren't viable are wrong, I was talking to an operative healer and they are still quite hard to kill, they simply can't tank damage like they did before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMCH Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Personally if I had to choose between healers or 1.2 with never seeing a healer again, I will happily choose to never see a healer again. That said the people who say healers aren't viable are wrong, I was talking to an operative healer and they are still quite hard to kill, they simply can't tank damage like they did before. 1- You're stupid. It's not Counter Strike, if you've not understood the difference. If all you want is 8x1 vs 8x1 then it's fine... 2- Operatives are by far the best healers, they were already and have received a boost instead of the others nerfs. Remember DPS increased 6% and even that couldn't explain how we drop so easily sometimes since 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psiwolf Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 The outcome of warzones before 1.2 were far, far too dependedent upon the exsistence of healing classes being on your team(or the enemies). Personally if I had to choose between healers or 1.2 with never seeing a healer again, I will happily choose to never see a healer again. That said the people who say healers aren't viable are wrong, I was talking to an operative healer and they are still quite hard to kill, they simply can't tank damage like they did before. Yes, because having a balanced team with healing, damage, and tanking generally got you places pre 1.2 and this was percieved by all as negative. Well good for you that you'd happily choose to never see a healer again, because that's what's happening, not only in wzs, but in the game in general. Healers are viable post 1.2. However they are neither fun to play nor as good as having another DPS to add to the gibfest and one team being able to dps down the other team faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamerro Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Each day post 1.2 that passes I play my healer less an less. I remember before I could tank 2 or maybe 3 if I was lucky, now I can barely handle 1 let alone 2. Once I'm at 30% health and I get interrupted it's gg. Dps in full battle master have 22% damage boost from expertise.healers in full battle master have 11% healing boost from expertise. To this I add the 30% debuff we get from being in combat in PvP. I can't heal you if the damage is severely greater than my heals. If someone is on me that means there is no heals for the rest of the group from my part since I have to run for my life knowing more will come for me. Thanks Bioware, I don't mind the sorc nerf but this is just insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyou Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 If you are a healer in a premade and you die in a warzone you suck. Finally we see that it took no skill to stand still and heal through dammage. It is time for the real healers to shine. Those who can fake cast, kite, know about positioning, know how to play with a tank, etc. In my premade, the healer doesnt die more than once per warzone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farfulnugen Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 If you are a healer in a premade and you die in a warzone you suck. Finally we see that it took no skill to stand still and heal through dammage. It is time for the real healers to shine. Those who can fake cast, kite, know about positioning, know how to play with a tank, etc. In my premade, the healer doesnt die more than once per warzone So basically, all you are saying is your premade goes up against crappy teams. Cause if it was a competitive premade u were up against, your healer would not be the happy-go-lucky healer that they are right now. Just cause you guys dominate crappy teams doesn't mean that healers don't have a big problem. All it means is you haven't encountered it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalaxyDude Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) The outcome of warzones before 1.2 were far, far too dependedent upon the exsistence of healing classes being on your team(or the enemies). Personally if I had to choose between healers or 1.2 with never seeing a healer again, I will happily choose to never see a healer again. That said the people who say healers aren't viable are wrong, I was talking to an operative healer and they are still quite hard to kill, they simply can't tank damage like they did before. Thank you (and your like-minded people) for ruining PvP with your First-Person-Shooter gameplay preference and mentality in a MMORPG-environment. Small- and narrow-mindedness never die. Edited April 15, 2012 by GalaxyDude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyfonen Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) If you are a healer in a premade and you die in a warzone you suck. Finally we see that it took no skill to stand still and heal through dammage. It is time for the real healers to shine. Those who can fake cast, kite, know about positioning, know how to play with a tank, etc. In my premade, the healer doesnt die more than once per warzone It all comes down to what kind of team u R up against. U´r making a very generlized statment there m8. I can also still live through a match with perhaps 1 or 2 deaths only with a great guild premade. However then the other team basicly suck/have a bad setup/dps. If u meat a great dps team however that know how to play. No ammount of kiting/faking/running with guard on can save u or the people u try healing. (That is if u´r not targeted, because as stated then u NEVER have time to heal anyone else but your self anymore. Not that that helps for long either before u go down.) I understand that u probably think u´r among the games best pvpers and so on, but it´s more likly that u´r just as "bad"/"good" as countless other players here. So don´t think our opinion or experiences R any special. IT´s all circomstances and it´s likely that most of us have noticed the diffrence in accordance to our experiences pre and post 1.2. They have goone too far in their rebalance. And likely the result will sadly be, alot fewer healers and just a dps race. Not exactly the makings of interesting gameplay if u ask me. Might as well go play a FPS if this keeps up. Edited April 15, 2012 by Tyfonen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyou Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 So basically, all you are saying is your premade goes up against crappy teams. Cause if it was a competitive premade u were up against, your healer would not be the happy-go-lucky healer that they are right now. Just cause you guys dominate crappy teams doesn't mean that healers don't have a big problem. All it means is you haven't encountered it yet. It means exactly this. If you are top of the food chain, your healers have no problem to contribute to the premade. They are the most valuable team asset on huttball, voidstar, and novare. We are one of the best teams on the server, because we play and train for hours. If other healers have trouble in pvp, it is non because of game mechanics, it is because they dont train enough. If you dont have the time to train 4 hours a day, you do not deserve the win against premades like ours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emartell Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 If you are a healer in a premade and you die in a warzone you suck. Finally we see that it took no skill to stand still and heal through dammage. It is time for the real healers to shine. Those who can fake cast, kite, know about positioning, know how to play with a tank, etc. In my premade, the healer doesnt die more than once per warzone Oh I still don't die. But the fact that I can't heal my team is a major issue. Im an op. standing still isn't the way to go. Not being able to keep up with the damage makes it frustrating and painful to play. We all play to have fun. Fun is not what healing is in 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psiwolf Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 If you are a healer in a premade and you die in a warzone you suck. Finally we see that it took no skill to stand still and heal through dammage. It is time for the real healers to shine. Those who can fake cast, kite, know about positioning, know how to play with a tank, etc. In my premade, the healer doesnt die more than once per warzone I do all that. I still ended many games with 0 or 1 death in wzs post 1.2 even while pugging, but what you don't seem to understand is, HEALING is NOT FUN anymore. Why do something that's not fun when you're trying to have fun by playing a video game? I don't care about the consumption change in pvp. It hurts because now I run out of force quicker, but I can still manage by not casting and regen or by using the occasional consumption or by running outta combat and seething. However, the main problem is the huge increase to DPS across the board, removing my big/fast heal and replacing it with a small/fast heal, giving me no way to catch up once I get behind heals, and even when I cast the big heal, it's not big enough to make up for the 2.2 seconds doing nothing but casting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyou Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Considering that as a dps I die 4,5 times in a warzone, or as a tank up to 9 times, I think our healer dieing only once per warzone is pretty fun. The thing is that your winning priorities are wrong. If a dps cant kill you, you won that fight. His job is to kill you, if he cant, he ****ed up. If 3 dps need 30 seconds to kill me and my healer we dir our job. Because the other 6 mates had time to fight for a full respawn against Only 5 enemies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoKiei Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I do all that. I still ended many games with 0 or 1 death in wzs post 1.2 even while pugging, but what you don't seem to understand is, HEALING is NOT FUN anymore. Why do something that's not fun when you're trying to have fun by playing a video game? I don't care about the consumption change in pvp. It hurts because now I run out of force quicker, but I can still manage by not casting and regen or by using the occasional consumption or by running outta combat and seething. However, the main problem is the huge increase to DPS across the board, removing my big/fast heal and replacing it with a small/fast heal, giving me no way to catch up once I get behind heals, and even when I cast the big heal, it's not big enough to make up for the 2.2 seconds doing nothing but casting. You know what is really not fun? Spending an entire warzone chaseing down a healer and not haveing them come even close to dieing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMCH Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Uh? If you don't die during a match as a healer, either you're facing noobs or you're simply not considered as a threat, plain an simple. Seeing how damage dealers play overall, even in premades, I suspect the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psiwolf Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 You know what is really not fun? Spending an entire warzone chaseing down a healer and not haveing them come even close to dieing. Yeah, so it's fair for 1 dps to take out 1 healer and unfair if 1 healer is able to outlast 1 dps right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psiwolf Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Uh? If you don't die during a match as a healer, either you're facing noobs or you're simply not considered as a threat, plain an simple. Seeing how damage dealers play overall, even in premades, I suspect the former. Well, I also play in many premades as the other people who have mentioned their healers not dying in premades. 1.2 didn't change my ability to kite, only my panic heals (or lack thereof) and the amount of damage compared to heals being output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancard Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I do all that. I still ended many games with 0 or 1 death in wzs post 1.2 even while pugging, but what you don't seem to understand is, HEALING is NOT FUN anymore. Why do something that's not fun when you're trying to have fun by playing a video game? I don't care about the consumption change in pvp. It hurts because now I run out of force quicker, but I can still manage by not casting and regen or by using the occasional consumption or by running outta combat and seething. However, the main problem is the huge increase to DPS across the board, removing my big/fast heal and replacing it with a small/fast heal, giving me no way to catch up once I get behind heals, and even when I cast the big heal, it's not big enough to make up for the 2.2 seconds doing nothing but casting. You obviously get it. The poster you replied to is clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emartell Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Well, I also play in many premades as the other people who have mentioned their healers not dying in premades. 1.2 didn't change my ability to kite, only my panic heals (or lack thereof) and the amount of damage compared to heals being output. Im pretty sure that's Because we are "lowly" healers and they are "godly" DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyou Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Lol, you just outed yourself as too lowskilled to make proper judgement. The best operator healer can play tom and jerry all day long against the best dammage dealer. No matter if it is a marauder, assain, or dd operator. I challenge you to meet on a neutral server in 2 weeks on ilum, and you can have a whole weekend to chase me arround and try to kill me once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totaltrash Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Each day post 1.2 that passes I play my healer less an less. I remember before I could tank 2 or maybe 3 if I was lucky, now I can barely handle 1 let alone 2. Once I'm at 30% health and I get interrupted it's gg. So you were able to tank 3 dps before 1.2 and you didn't think that was a problem for game balance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signahead Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 If it wasn't for 1.2, my Combat Medic-Specced Commando would never have discovered Grav Round. I can't really speak for DPS before the patch (my highest DPS character was a level 30 gunslinger). But after respeccing into Gunnery, my Commando feels like a bona fide hero. I'm no longer the other side's first target and I never get marked. Instead of running away from other players (or at least running out of their line of sight), I make other players run away from me. And on the night I switched specs, which is my only good point of comparison, my average medal count nearly doubled. The best part? It's been several days since someone has told me I'm ruining PvP. I still ruin PvP on my Scoundrel. He was my very first character, and I set him aside at level 40 because I couldn't wrap my head around a melee/healing hybrid. Now he's back, and with the PvP experience I built on my Commando, he's pretty good. We'll see what happens when he hits 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkammo Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I want to thank the OP for appreciating how healing worked pre 1.2! It's always warming to see the DPS support how it used to be. It's a game design decision. There was a long thread before that I started discussing this. The healing experience is different now, and the gameplay experience just isn't as fun for a healer anymore. It's now a lot like World of Warcraft. People hate comparing the two MMO's, but honestly that's the direction they went. Sure, you can do amazing things if you have a premade trained to defend you and work with you. But, that's the key difference and people who choose healing as their main know the difference, like night and day, from being independent and feeling like contributing compared to knowing that it takes x y and z from other people to be able to outbound heal well. From the healers who say not much has changed, if you ask them the specifics of the gameplay experience and how people are dying, they usually have to stop and admit that "Yes, people are dying more. But, they don't expect as much from me anymore." The responsibility of DPS having to work together to kill a healer has been shifted onto the healers who need to convince their team they need to take care of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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