Three simple reasons PVP died

[Subatomix]

While there are now dozens of reasons pvp is pointless in this game, I'd like to refocus the discussion to three main issues that have always been a serious problem and remain ignored.

 

The fact that they've remained shows how detached from reality the Bioware developers are. Perhaps if they took a step back, they'd see that.

 

So I present, "the big three:"

 

1. TAB targeting.

 

2. Short handed matches (eg., 4 v 8, 5 v 8, etc...).

 

3. Inability to queue with 8 or properly with 4.

 

These are very basic things that any MMO or video game in general shouldn't have a problem with, period.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Subatomix

[tordo]

So the recent patches had really nothing to do with it? Things before 1.2 weren't great but it was tolerable in terms of pvp. The rewards were sufficient, and pvp results were not the greatest by any stretch. However one was able to progress. The simple idea that a level 10 could match similar stats in the pvp arenas was a good idea. I think the good ideas recently stopped at release back in December 20th.

 

If it was a really awesome idea why offer 30 days free?

If the game was really offering the best out there why give 30 days free away? To me this almost an admission of guilt and also missing the mark and requirements completely. Because the results are speaking for themselves and the CS tickets are evidence of the customer acceptance of such policies.

 

Lets take the belief of getting killed and or losing in a pvp zone. Die once and your game account is deleted. Not only is the character gone but the account is removed. The "winner" is given what the account was converted to credits accommodations and such. Let us make it a realistic based reward system.

 

Ok so this theory has a lot of flaws how does someone learn if not by trial and error. In all pvp zones you die alot more than you survive most people that live and play pvp understand this.

 

So why not a realistic consequence? It is a game, a game is an interactive form of entertainment. Monopoly does not take all your real money or items cause you need to learn to play? Are we not all learning to play so to speak? Not to mention some people are more skilled than others and different things.

 

If things were merely pass/fail situation alot of you would not have anything at all based on that. The problem is Bioware cannot take conceptual requirements and implement them correctly across the board. It either and extreme view such as the current state of pvp, and the excuses on the high of the ranking system and the failure to deliver.

 

I do believe the ranking system was to employee some advance reward but, instead this was implemented in it's place. Clearly a lack of experience is displayed on a product level.

[Humankeg]

Disagree with OP; though the reasons he gives are of concern, they are hardly THE 3 reasons why pvp died.

[Subatomix]

I never said the recent changes had nothing to do with it. I was instead just trying to make an assessment of the game a bit easier to grasp from a feature / bug perspective.

 

No doubt an entire book can and very well may be written about the failures of this game. I can already see business school students reading case studies about it. But most people don't like reading case studies, which can lead conversations astray.

 

"The big three" are imho the most glaring and clear signs of fatal flaws on many levels at Bioware and in the design of the game itself. So I thought I'd make a simple, easy to understand, post about them.

[shadomen]

I have a few more reasons why PVP died in 1.2.

 

1. It is still a grind.

 

2. There is no REAL new content. It is still the same WZ's + a rehashed alderan. Where is Open World PVP?

 

3. No cross server PVP queues. I'm sick of fighting the same teams from the same faction in huttball 70% of the time.

 

4. It is still a grind (in case you missed #1).

 

5. 1.2 Ninja nerfed healers and damage reduction via expertise. The bonuses granted via expertise are lowered for + heal and damage reduction now. Combine this with buffs to many damage classes that did not need it and you have healers being liabilities almost to their teams since they can BARELY stay alive 1 v 1. If they get focused or ANYONE gets focused, they drop in record time. We're better off stacking marauders/sentinels now than having healers.

 

6. Champion/Centurion gear is terrible. They need 20-30 more expertise on each piece to be appropriate in place in between battlemaster and recruit gear.

 

Recruit gear can be bought at valor rank 1 and has more expertise per piece than champ/centurion. Basically I feel like I personally ground for champ gear for nothing and will need to grind out battlemaster or beyond to stand a chance in pvp.

 

Shadomen

[sauerkraut]

While there are now dozens of reasons pvp is pointless in this game, I'd like to refocus the discussion to three main issues that have always been a serious problem and remain ignored.

 

The fact that they've remained shows how detached from reality the Bioware developers are. Perhaps if they took a step back, they'd see that.

 

So I present, "the big three:"

 

1. TAB targeting.

 

2. Short handed matches (eg., 4 v 8, 5 v 8, etc...).

 

3. Inability to queue with 8 or properly with 4.

 

These are very basic things that any MMO or video game in general shouldn't have a problem with, period.

 

how TAB targeting killed pvp?

[Subatomix]

Disagree with OP; though the reasons he gives are of concern, they are hardly THE 3 reasons why pvp died.

 

The fact that they were never fixed is, not the flaws themselves.

 

They were so very basic and simple to repair that Bioware's seeming ignorance of them really says it all.

 

Not fixing them and instead pushing out new content (and new serious flaws) speaks volumes.

[paincleef]

Here's some pretty obvious and neglected bugs/mistakes that is ruining pvp -

 

the annoying camera angle issue is still not fixed since beta making competitive pvp annoying. the camera automatically zooms in and you have to manually scroll out each time.

 

they did try to address the ui issues by enabling customization but they still do not have macros enabled which is a must for competitive pvp. how are people supposed to set focus targets and cast focus spells/attacks without macros - you can do it but it is very clunky, annoying and slow at best.

 

addons - people want dps and healing meters to track and improve their gameplay as well as tell who is good and bad on your team.

 

wz grouping / rating system - 90% of active pvp players are mediocre at best, it is very annoying to be grouped with incompetent players. there should be an internal rating of some soft for each player based on medals, wins, dmg, healing, etc instead of randomly matching a wz group. makes it feel like more of a grind.

Edited April 15, 2012 by paincleef

[Subatomix]

how TAB targeting killed pvp?

 

Sorry, I meant "TAB and hope" since you are by no means guaranteed a target when you hit (mash) the TAB key.

 

It's called tab mashing, not targeting.

[zerosaint]

I'll give you one reason.

 

PvP stopped being fun.

[LoKiei]

PvP didn't die, PvP is more active then pre patch on my server.

[silvershadez]

What are you talking about? Theres alot more PvP going on on my server since this patch (Jar'Kais Sword EU). Atleast for my server this patch kind of revived PvP. I even see older players coming back that canceled their sub to take a break.

 

All this histery regarding 1.2 is overdone it's not even close to be as worse as people tend to make it. And they seem to forget: This is an MMO which will change regulary, meaning that healers will most likely get some love again and all this stuff you currently overdramatize (3 days after the patch went live) will be balanced out.

 

Patience is a virtue.

[everynamestaken]

Pvp is alive and well. Its faster queues than ever.

 

I enjoy iy alot. A grind? Its an mmo. You have to work for sonething..

 

If i wanted to play a fps i would play a fps. Yersh peeps.

 

 

Thanks bioware for the great great game.

[rjkishida]

These are 3 valid reasons but I wouldn't call them the 3 biggest.

[Algaaa]

guys my server is died same like many servers around. My guild is died since i chnaged 3 of them i had valor 84 and i left the game because im tired to wait ages for queue. Im going to play diablo 3 as im fan of this game but seriously SWTOR really going down and very fast.!

[Seriasx]

1. Horrible gear grind system

2. Meaningless and discouraged open world pvp.

[Wooker]

I think swtor is fine its just starting they are mostly focusing on bugs and gltches.hang in till they get some new content.

[-Fal-]

People who make threads like this.

[DuriZap]

4. Way too much incoming damage. People die too fast, making lots of ingame mechanics more or less obsolete (you very rarely see anyone guarding "random" people in a WZ anymore....as they fear the new burst of DPS will wreck them to pieces in a split second.

 

5. Gear is WAY TOO IMPORTANT !!!!

- Skills doesn't mean much in most WZ's. It's about who carries the biggest load of burst (gear) and then just spam away.

- I strongly suggest BW look into prolonging individual combat in some way. This wont be an easy task, as many changes will be needed to maintain a proper balance, but it can, and should be done IMIO.

 

Personally, I am not gonna grind my *** off to get into better gear, just to stand a chance in PvP. The time I need to grind feels endless, when the opposition in general carries way higher DPS than my team. The old Empire/Republic balance, which hasn't been looked at properly at all, and the ripples of past flaws are still seen ingame, and they are still quite obvious.

[Cebby]

While there are now dozens of reasons pvp is pointless in this game, I'd like to refocus the discussion to three main issues that have always been a serious problem and remain ignored.

 

The fact that they've remained shows how detached from reality the Bioware developers are. Perhaps if they took a step back, they'd see that.

 

So I present, "the big three:"

 

1. TAB targeting.

 

2. Short handed matches (eg., 4 v 8, 5 v 8, etc...).

 

3. Inability to queue with 8 or properly with 4.

 

These are very basic things that any MMO or video game in general shouldn't have a problem with, period.

 

4 warzones?

no open werld pvp

balance swings like an axe.

oh yeah no pvp content?

all valor does is unlock gear.. no pvp abilities..

no content?

[TonyDragonflame]

4 warzones?

no open werld pvp

balance swings like an axe.

oh yeah no pvp content?

all valor does is unlock gear.. no pvp abilities..

no content?

 

^ this

[Tolarr]

Game engine can't handle mass pvp (like in Ilum), all we can do is rool alts or play ALL 4 wz over and over ....and over and..... hold on there is a GW2 coming up if we give EA a Year or 2 to and with path 2.9 we will have pvp on lvl we need.

No open world pvp

No space in TOR (star fox apart)

[Razot]

Expertise

[Herbertt]

1. No real open world pvp even on a pvp server

2. Bioware listens to the whiners

3. Bioware idea of balance is to go by the number of threads created.

[LillyWhiteS]

Disagree with OP; though the reasons he gives are of concern, they are hardly THE 3 reasons why pvp died.

 

Yep feel the same way

 

My personal reason why I will likely leave the game after my sub runs out, is because of the lack of 'big' scale and meaningful PvP.

 

Big scale PvP, like forts and getting to raid the enemy city in Warhammer, went for hours and with multiple warbands working together for the duration, even though that game could have done things better, people still participated and it created a great community.

 

Warzone type PvP is good for variety and a change, but it can't take on the mantle as the main PvP, certainly when they are just 8 v 8 and no Alterac Valley type Warzone with bigger numbers etc