Second Class Citizens

[In_cognito]

Your storylines are all geared towards men. Everything is tailored to being male. This is sexism in it's purest form. There are women who play these games and we deserve to be considered and treated as equals, not dismissed and made to submit to whatever whim you decide we should dance to. I've found that even when I try to avoid the sex (flirtng) or out right referral to having sex, it keeps coming back up. At one point, the only option I had was to pick one of the lesser evils to continue the game. The sad thing is....if we do try to avoid the sex references in the game, then we're punished with negative points. This would only have been designed by men, to satisfy their twisted pleasures, because a woman would never have dreamed of punching someone for not having sex or referring to sex in any situation.

 

The sad thing is, you're promoting sex to minors, because remember, minors play this game to and they come across the same situations where their choices for affection points require them to either flirt or have sex. While this might not seem like a lot, to some parents, if they knew their kids were being made to make these choices, might think twice about getting them the game. Even the titles are geared to men....Women are referred to as Lord, rather than Ladies.

 

I see slaves outfits and dancer outfits where women wear nearly nothing, yet I see nothing even closely related to that for men to wear. This suggests that the writers feel women should be made to subject themselves to degradating roles, but not men.

 

Not quite sure where the writers plan to take this next, but I do suggest they start considering women has major players instead of just toys for their sick pleasures.

Edited April 15, 2012 by DiannaB

[mrObtuse]

It's not exactly consistent for you to write this post about how all the content in the game is sexist, then say a woman would NEVER do x or y.

 

I think the game may have occurrences of behavior that is as you describe, it is fiction and why would the designers want to avoid having unsavory characters? What better way to drive players' motivation toward their chosen karma role?

 

Have you ever played the game fallout? What would a game centered around choices of ethics be without scenarios that force you into conflict both internally and socially?

 

I have also however heard feedback that players are less than satisfied with the companion romance pathing while playing as a female character, and I think that could be valid and there could be a good amount more focus on improving aspects of the game that may appeal to female players --- which is a very diverse group so I think things that would benefit them would be likely to benefit any player that enjoys the game.

[In_cognito]

Not all the content is sexism, yet enough of it is, that it is apparent this wasn't designed for women. As for what women would and wouldn't do....I don't think you're in a position to make that call, as you're not female.

 

Yet, I would agree that my words are a generalization which should be clarified in that MOST women would not punish someone for making choices that steer away from sex. Those are choices that the individual should make and the writers shouldn't make them for us. We shouldn't be punished for trying to avoid them.

 

I also see that you avoided any mention about promoting sex to minors.

Edited April 15, 2012 by DiannaB

[Roccobb]

I also don't like the flirt being forced on you at times. I do not wish to see it. I am 30 years old, and I just don't care to see it. Forcing it on us is wrong.

 

The male dancer outfit is coming. So that is not a valid complaint...

 

Edit: in one case, I did all I could to avoid the fade to black. I was rude. Belittling. Yet the final choice was light side fade to black, or 2 dark side options. My character is 100% light.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Roccobb

[Celacia]

Speaking as a woman (but, you know, just as one individual one, because I can't speak for anyone else), I have to say that I could use more flirting/romance/sex in the game, because I, personally, enjoy it. Also, the lack of follow-through on the companion romances is kind of underwhelming.

 

I do agree that there is a lack of parity in the skimpy clothing department, certainly. I would love to see that fixed by adding equally skimpy clothing options for males as well, though.

 

I will agree that there should be options available to turn your companions down without them getting all pouty about it.

 

As far as children playing, they do so with their parents' consent, and it's really up to the parents to decide if the game is appropriate for them. Personally, if they are too young to handle implied video game make-outs (not even necessarily sex, since it's left ambiguously 'fade-to'black') then they probably shouldn't be playing an mmo in general, because the things that other players will say are often far more explicit. Again, though,that decision is on their parents and not on anyone else.

[PJEBarlow]

Some of the classes and companions simply have flirty characters. Playing as a BH it seems I can't help but be subjected to Mako's needy personality until I get another companion, playing as a smuggler I am "forced" (as you wrongly put it) in to being given the option of flirty dialogue. But I guess this isn't sexist to you, since I'm playing with male characters.

 

I guess it also isn't sexist to you that you seem to think you speak for all women, who are a very large and varied group with their own minds and opinions on flirting or being flirted with. And the fact is you can avoid the flirting, you might bug the companion who's doing it to you but this is no different to rebuffing the advances of someone you don't like in real life.

Edited April 15, 2012 by PJEBarlow

[Docsis]

good grief. I thought I had already read all the stupid complaints until now. I believe this is the "most stupidest" one yet.

 

You do realize that this is JUST A GAME!

 

Go play "Hello Kitty". I don't believe you will find anything offensive there... unless being FORCED to play a cat when you really want to play a dog.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Docsis

[Roccobb]

Speaking as a woman (but, you know, just as one individual one, because I can't speak for anyone else), I have to say that I could use more flirting/romance/sex in the game, because I, personally, enjoy it. Also, the lack of follow-through on the companion romances is kind of underwhelming.

 

I do agree that there is a lack of parity in the skimpy clothing department, certainly. I would love to see that fixed by adding equally skimpy clothing options for males as well, though.

 

I will agree that there should be options available to turn your companions down without them getting all pouty about it.

 

As far as children playing, they do so with their parents' consent, and it's really up to the parents to decide if the game is appropriate for them. Personally, if they are too young to handle implied video game make-outs (not even necessarily sex, since it's left ambiguously 'fade-to'black') then they probably shouldn't be playing an mmo in general, because the things that other players will say are often far more explicit. Again, though,that decision is on their parents and not on anyone else.

 

I agree, using the kids thing is stupid. The game is rated T. Teens see a lot worse stuff.

 

However, again, I am 30 years old. In that quest I spoke of, I had 2 choices. Get dark side points or fade to black. There was no way to avoid it. Actually, there was. I cancelled the quest. Abandoned it. Lost out on 11k experience. That is not right. I don't want it. Give me that option. It is not my tastes.

[Roccobb]

Some of the classes and companions simply have flirty characters. Playing as a BH it seems I can't help but be subjected to Mako's needy personality until I get another companion, playing as a smuggler I am "forced" (as you wrongly put it) in to being given the option of flirty dialogue. But I guess this isn't sexist to you, since I'm playing with male characters.

 

I guess it also isn't sexist to you that you seem to think you speak for all women, who are a very large and varied group with their own minds and opinions on flirting or being flirted with. And the fact is you can avoid the flirting, you might bug the companion who's doing it to you but this is no different to rebuffing the advances of someone you don't like in real life.

 

It's not just companions. They are easy. Piss them off, then give them a gift to make up for it. Read my other problems with the flirt. With quest givers.

[PJEBarlow]

It's not just companions. They are easy. Piss them off, then give them a gift to make up for it. Read my other problems with the flirt. With quest givers.

 

I've not yet encountered a quest giver that made it mandatory for me to flirt with them. I've come across one or two with the option, but exercising my freedom to choose I simply chose not to. The only reason I've seen for people being "forced" to flirt is if the reward was higher for doing so and, well, if flirting for rewards is irresistible that sounds like a personal problem.

[Kubernetic]

You're storylines are all geared towards men. Everything is tailored to being male. This is sexism in it's purest form. There are women who play these games and we deserve to be considered and treated as equals, not dismissed and made to submit to whatever whim you decide we should dance to. I've found that even when I try to avoid the sex (flirtng) or out right referral to having sex, it keeps coming back up. At one point, the only option I had was to pick one of the lesser evils to continue the game. The sad thing is....if we do try to avoid the sex references in the game, then we're punished with negative points. This would only have been designed by men, to satisfy their twisted pleasures, because a woman would never have dreamed of punching someone for not having sex or referring to sex in any situation.

 

The sad thing is, you're promoting sex to minors, because remember, minors play this game to and they come across the same situations where their choices for affection points require them to either flirt or have sex. While this might not seem like a lot, to some parents, if they knew their kids were being made to make these choices, might think twice about getting them the game. Even the titles are geared to men....Women are referred to as Lord, rather than Ladies.

 

I see slaves outfits and dancer outfits where women wear nearly nothing, yet I see nothing even closely related to that for men to wear. This suggests that the writers feel women should be made to subject themselves to degradating roles, but not men.

 

Not quite sure where the writers plan to take this next, but I do suggest they start considering women has major players instead of just toys for their sick pleasures.

 

Wow.

 

Well I'm not sure what you're referring to in being "forced" to do anything. In every instance where I've had a prompt, at least on my Trooper and Jedi Knight story lines that I have progressed the farthest in, I have ALWAYS had an option to keep things at an arm's length. Can you be a little more specific as to what situation "forced" you to choose a particular option? Wrap it in a spoiler tag if you don't want to ruin it for others.

 

Second, it seems (at least on first glance) that many of your criticisms here are actually criticisms of Star Wars itself.

 

For instance, I remember Leia having to wear a slave outfit in Return of the Jedi, but I don't recall a similar outfit being worn by any male characters in the movies. I will say I have heard (at least at some point, was this just a rumor or was it real?) that there was a slave male outfit on the way, but that there was no ETA.

 

And frankly, do you even realize why the slave outfit showed up in that movie anyway? Carrie Fisher was complaining to the costume designers that every outfit they gave her to wear basically ended up hiding her femininity. She seems to have actually made this complaint to George Lucas himself, who then decided to write the slave girl outfit into the mix. Granted, maybe he went a little overboard, but this wasn't just started by men with sick fetishes.

 

Yes I do agree that there are some sexist angles, such as all of the dancing holos on Nar Shaddaa being female. While that would be my preference, I am perfectly acceptable to them creating some male holos as well, and the afforementioned male slave outfit (that one would think had an equally visible amount of skin as the female slave outfit). There's nothing to keep male players from stripping to their undies and running around anyway, so it's not much of a change.

 

As to Light/Dark choices, remember these aren't "Light" and "Dark" based on Earthbound "civilized" morality... they're done in the context of the story and the game universe. On the Imperial side, if you're ignoring the orders of your commander to kill innocent civilians, you're going to get pinged with Dark Side points, if I'm not mistaken. Whereas on the Republic side, you'd be pinged witih Light Side points.

 

Lastly, I think you're going just a bit overboard on the sexuality thing. I understand your point, and if you're a parent, maybe the game should be listed as a Mature Audiences game so that parents can understand there are references to sex in the game. But they are just references. So far I've never seen anything explicit whatsoever, just some suggestive comments and people kissing.

 

Kissing is certainly not unknown to kids, and they'll see a lot more GRAPHIC sexuality on prime time television than they will ever see in this game.

 

To add to this, this has been going on a LONG time. Leisure Suit Larry was released in 1987 and is undoubtedly more risqué and outright pornographic compared to this game. We're talking sex, ******s, sex dolls, venereal disease, sex in hot tubs, etc. The graphics were a hell of a lot worse than this one, but the suggestion was just as real.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leisure_Suit_Larry

 

Now Sierra did make an effort to insure that adults were playing and not kids with an innovative "Test" that you had to play before beginning the game, which asked you questions about old movies and things that happened that kids would usually not know about. But at 14 years old, we still got around it. All you had to do was start asking adults random questions about which character Kirk Douglas played in some 1960s movie, etc.

 

Anyway, I'd like to know more about this situation where you were "forced" to have sex either way. If you can provide more details I'd be happy to read them. And if there truly is such a situation in the game, I agree wholeheartedly, there should definitely be an "out" option to end it and provide an alternate route.

 

P.S. -- Ken sent me.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Kubernetic

[Khalhazar]

In that quest I spoke of, I had 2 choices. Get dark side points or fade to black. There was no way to avoid it.

Do you remember the name of the quest? I haven't seen it! Personally I don't trust their moral compass. Some dark side choices are the moral and ethical thing to do, and that's why I'll never run an always-light character.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Khalhazar

[Bielduwyn]

You're storylines are all geared towards men. Everything is tailored to being male. This is sexism in it's purest form. There are women who play these games and we deserve to be considered and treated as equals, not dismissed and made to submit to whatever whim you decide we should dance to. I've found that even when I try to avoid the sex (flirtng) or out right referral to having sex, it keeps coming back up. At one point, the only option I had was to pick one of the lesser evils to continue the game. The sad thing is....if we do try to avoid the sex references in the game, then we're punished with negative points. This would only have been designed by men, to satisfy their twisted pleasures, because a woman would never have dreamed of punching someone for not having sex or referring to sex in any situation.

You know, if you're going to try and change something about the game it is best to consider making constructive criticism instead of spouting vile venom all over the place, it makes you look petty, if not pitiful. Also, I've never encountered situations where avoiding the flirt option obstructed my progress, and heck, I don't even encounter that many flirt options to begin with, and I've levelled six female characters past the prologue, and two of them past Chapter 1 (my Sage and Sniper). So I'm honestly not sure where you're getting all this from that there is naught but "vile objectification" of women in TOR. When we have female governors (on Republic Taris and Imperial Balmorra), the entire Republic army being under command of a woman and the head of the Jedi order being a woman.

 

The sad thing is, you're promoting sex to minors, because remember, minors play this game to and they come across the same situations where their choices for affection points require them to either flirt or have sex. While this might not seem like a lot, to some parents, if they knew their kids were being made to make these choices, might think twice about getting them the game. Even the titles are geared to men....Women are referred to as Lord, rather than Ladies.

You do realise this game is rated T within the US and 16+ in Europe right? 16 is also coincidentally the age of consent in most of Europe, so in at least one continent your argument is dead in the water since youngsters under 16 shouldn't be playing it anyway. And even in the US TOR stays within the limits of the T rating so... yeah, sorry, this one isn't going anywhere. And while I do not like ladies being addressed as lords, apparently in Sith society Lord is a gender neutral term. *shrug* It's not something I like, but it's not bad enough for me to stop playing TOR over it.

 

I see slaves outfits and dancer outfits where women wear nearly nothing, yet I see nothing even closely related to that for men to wear. This suggests that the writers feel women should be made to subject themselves to degradating roles, but not men.

Erm... did you ever see Return of the Jedi? Particularly Jabba's palace scenes? These things have been a part of Star Wars since then, if dancing outfits bother you that much you might want to renounce your Star Wars fandom altogether.

 

Not quite sure where the writers plan to take this next, but I do suggest they start considering women has major players instead of just toys for their sick pleasures.

I hope you realise that there were several female writers on the writing staff for TOR, the Jedi Consular's story was even spearheaded by a woman. So perhaps you should do your research before idly firing your venom at the writers.

[Kubernetic]

As a quick aside, it gave me a hearty laugh when I just realized that the forum software masked out the word I used to reference prostitutes.

 

Hah.

[Roccobb]

Do you remember the name of the quest? I haven't seen it! Personally I don't trust their moral compass. Some dark side choices are the moral and ethical thing to do, and that's why I'll never run an always-light character.

 

I have been trying to remember the name of the quest. Heck, I don't even remember which planet. 90% certain it was after alderaan. It was on the smuggler. It was my first account I don't even have anymore, and have not played smuggler on this account.

 

As for rating, it is rated teen, and says sexual content or something like that.

[Roccobb]

You know, if you're going to try and change something about the game it is best to consider making constructive criticism instead of spouting vile venom all over the place, it makes you look petty, if not pitiful. Also, I've never encountered situations where avoiding the flirt option obstructed my progress, and heck, I don't even encounter that many flirt options to begin with, and I've levelled six female characters past the prologue, and two of them past Chapter 1 (my Sage and Sniper). So I'm honestly not sure where you're getting all this from that there is naught but "vile objectification" of women in TOR. When we have female governors (on Republic Taris and Imperial Balmorra), the entire Republic army being under command of a woman and the head of the Jedi order being a woman.

 

You do realise this game is rated T within the US and 16+ in Europe right? 16 is also coincidentally the age of consent in most of Europe, so in at least one continent your argument is dead in the water since youngsters under 16 shouldn't be playing it anyway. And even in the US TOR stays within the limits of the T rating so... yeah, sorry, this one isn't going anywhere. And while I do not like ladies being addressed as lords, apparently in Sith society Lord is a gender neutral term. *shrug* It's not something I like, but it's not bad enough for me to stop playing TOR over it.

 

Erm... did you ever see Return of the Jedi? Particularly Jabba's palace scenes? These things have been a part of Star Wars since then, if dancing outfits bother you that much you might want to renounce your Star Wars fandom altogether.

 

I hope you realise that there were several female writers on the writing staff for TOR, the Jedi Consular's story was even spearheaded by a woman. So perhaps you should do your research before idly firing your venom at the writers.

 

My female characters get very few flirt. The male characters are filled with them.

[flyersfan]

Well I'm not sure what you're referring to in being "forced" to do anything. In every instance where I've had a prompt, at least on my Trooper and Jedi Knight story lines that I have progressed the farthest in, I have ALWAYS had an option to keep things at an arm's length. Can you be a little more specific as to what situation "forced" you to choose a particular option? Wrap it in a spoiler tag if you don't want to ruin it for others.

 

I've had this experience with my Trooper, Consular, Knight, and Agent, all of whom are female and are level 45, 50, 50, and 32 respectively. The Agent and Trooper get a pretty hefty amount of flirt options, but I've always had the option to "just walk away" in the sense that I avoid any kind of romantic involvement.

 

I agree, using the kids thing is stupid. The game is rated T. Teens see a lot worse stuff.

 

However, again, I am 30 years old. In that quest I spoke of, I had 2 choices. Get dark side points or fade to black. There was no way to avoid it. Actually, there was. I cancelled the quest. Abandoned it. Lost out on 11k experience. That is not right. I don't want it. Give me that option. It is not my tastes.

 

I also agree about the kids thing. Someone else mentioned that people in general will say things that are a lot worse than they'd see in the game. Teenagers these days know about sex from things they see on social media sites, TV, music, et cetera. It's actually mandatory to take sex education classes in many (not sure if it's all) states in the US. I don't like it, but it's the world we live in.

 

As for your specific mission, that kind of make sense to me. I'm not sure what kind of mission this was. I am quite sure that all of my flirt options came from storyline missions or companion conversations. In either case, the mission isn't abandonable.

 

However, it makes sense for you to get Dark Side or Light Side points for your choices. Breaking someone's heart and saying no would make sense to yield Dark Side points. I would assume that the other two options were "tell them off" and "fade to black." In this situation, you can't be 100% Light Side without making sacrifices. Life's about choices, sacrifice, and compromise. Sorry.

 

You're storylines are all geared towards men.

 

(your*)

 

I disagree. My characters get a pretty good deal of female-exclusive options and interactions throughout the game between companion interactions and clothing. Many of the companions and some storyline NPCs interact differently with you based on gender, which makes a great deal of sense. My favourite example (and the one that sticks out the most in my head right now) is the Trooper:

 

 

On Ord Mantell, your main mission hub for story missions is in Fort Garnik. The Trooper has a frequent interaction with one NPC, a sergeant I believe, that is almost a completely different person based on gender. If you're FemTroop, he stutters a lot and gets nervous. You can then ask him how he feels about female officers and he says that he doesn't have a problem with them but that "you're so... um... er" as he stutters because he doesn't want to say that you're pretty. I thought it was kind of funny.

 

As a ManTroop, that doesn't happen. You get the bland greet and salute and business carries on as usual.

 

Edited April 15, 2012 by flyersfan

[Kubernetic]

I've had this experience with my Trooper, Consular, Knight, and Agent, all of whom are female and are level 45, 50, 50, and 32 respectively. The Agent and Trooper get a pretty hefty amount of flirt options, but I've always had the option to "just walk away" in the sense that I avoid any kind of romantic involvement.

 

 

 

I also agree about the kids thing. Someone else mentioned that people in general will say things that are a lot worse than they'd see in the game. Teenagers these days know about sex from things they see on social media sites, TV, music, et cetera. It's actually mandatory to take sex education classes in many (not sure if it's all) states in the US. I don't like it, but it's the world we live in.

 

As for your specific mission, that kind of make sense to me. I'm not sure what kind of mission this was. I am quite sure that all of my flirt options came from storyline missions or companion conversations. In either case, the mission isn't abandonable.

 

However, it makes sense for you to get Dark Side or Light Side points for your choices. Breaking someone's heart and saying no would make sense to yield Dark Side points. I would assume that the other two options were "tell them off" and "fade to black." In this situation, you can't be 100% Light Side without making sacrifices. Life's about choices, sacrifice, and compromise. Sorry.

 

 

 

(your*)

 

I disagree. My characters get a pretty good deal of female-exclusive options and interactions throughout the game between companion interactions and clothing. Many of the companions and some storyline NPCs interact differently with you based on gender, which makes a great deal of sense. My favourite example (and the one that sticks out the most in my head right now) is the Trooper:

 

 

On Ord Mantell, your main mission hub for story missions is in Fort Garnik. The Trooper has a frequent interaction with one NPC, a sergeant I believe, that is almost a completely different person based on gender. If you're FemTroop, he stutters a lot and gets nervous. You can then ask him how he feels about female officers and he says that he doesn't have a problem with them but that "you're so... um... er" as he stutters because he doesn't want to say that you're pretty. I thought it was kind of funny.

 

As a ManTroop, that doesn't happen. You get the bland greet and salute and business carries on as usual.

 

Wait a minute, after reading this, I do remember one specific mission that I had on Hutta when I was playing a female Imperial Agent.

 

 

I forget the name of the exact mission, but when you are heading into the Hutt's palace, some jerk finds you and realizes that you aren't the Red Blade, because he says he's met them before. I'm kinda fuzzy on the details, but if I'm not mistaken, you have two options at that point:

 

A) You basically seduce him and get him to forget about the issue. You get Light Side points for this.

 

B) You outright kill him where he stands, and get Dark Side points for this.

 

 

But again, this situation fits with the general tone of the Agent. If I'm not mistaken (it has been a while since I played that character) you get Light Side points for keeping things calm and avoiding undue attention and scrutiny of the palace guards, essentially, and you get Dark Side points for risking your entire mission due to some personal preference or an aversion to using sexuality to avoid detection and remain undercover.

 

It made perfect sense to me, and fit in line with the overall character. And even though I was trying to play a Dark Side character, I went with the Light Side option because that felt like what the character would do.

 

Just my opinion on that one, though.

 

As for the issues where a male character will flirt with a female, but not a male in the same situation... well we know about that one. They're working on it, but it wasn't added in for launch. At some point, the story lines will alter a bit and you'll have the same gender flirting with you as well, and options to do the same.

 

But this whole thread does bring up an interesting point, and one that should probably be advertised and talked about more often: We need more female game coders!

Edited April 15, 2012 by Kubernetic

[flyersfan]

Wait a minute, after reading this, I do remember one specific mission that I had on Hutta when I was playing a female Imperial Agent.

 

 

I forget the name of the exact mission, but when you are heading into the Hutt's palace, some jerk finds you and realizes that you aren't the Red Blade, because he says he's met them before. I'm kinda fuzzy on the details, but if I'm not mistaken, you have two options at that point:

 

A) You basically seduce him and get him to forget about the issue. You get Light Side points for this.

 

B) You outright kill him where he stands, and get Dark Side points for this.

 

 

But again, this situation fits with the general tone of the Agent. If I'm not mistaken (it has been a while since I played that character) you get Light Side points for keeping things calm and avoiding undue attention and scrutiny of the palace guards, essentially, and you get Dark Side points for risking your entire mission due to some personal preference or an aversion to using sexuality to avoid detection and remain undercover.

 

It made perfect sense to me, and fit in line with the overall character. And even though I was trying to play a Dark Side character, I went with the Light Side option because that felt like what the character would do.

 

Just my opinion on that one, though.

 

As for the issues where a male character will flirt with a female, but not a male in the same situation... well we know about that one. They're working on it, but it wasn't added in for launch. At some point, the story lines will alter a bit and you'll have the same gender flirting with you as well, and options to do the same.

 

But this whole thread does bring up an interesting point, and one that should probably be advertised and talked about more often: We need more female game coders!

 

The one you mentioned is about the third or fourth story mission. I remember it as well. You are correct to say that it fits the Agent storyline. Eriona also just flirted with the guy and left him hanging. No fade-to-black or even interaction in the future. I got Light Side points for not slaughtering the guy. That makes sense. How many times has James Bond flirted with a woman to get his way?

 

Here's another example:

 

 

When FemHunter gets the typical mission to head over to the trainer for the first time (the generic trainer, not the AC guy), the NPC comments on how "she's the cutest thing to pick up a blaster." You can put your blaster to his forehead or you can flirt back. I believe the third option is to just insult him. I feel that all the above fit into what a FemHunter would do.

 

 

As for your concluding comments, no, I don't want that. I don't like it when games make everyone play for both teams. It's just unrealistic and I don't think it's right. I'm fine with them changing a few NPCs, but don't change all of them. It also changes the experience completely. Taking away that sergeant's interaction with my FemTroop and making it universal takes away from the "exclusivity" of playing the FemTroop (other than being Commander Shepard).

 

However, I'd like to see Jaxo join the all-girls team. I definitely get the vibe from her that she's not into guys very much

 

 

from her all-female squad on Coruscant to inviting the Trooper (in the case my FemTroop) back to Coruscant for drinks and having that little one-on-one there.

 

 

And Kaliyo. I think that one speaks for itself.

 

More female game coders would be nice, though, or at least more less testosterone-driven men.

Edited April 15, 2012 by flyersfan

[Jestunhi]

Not all the content is sexism, yet enough of it is, that it is apparent this wasn't designed for women. As for what women would and wouldn't do....I don't think you're in a position to make that call, as you're not female.

 

Yet, I would agree that my words are a generalization which should be clarified in that MOST women would not punish someone for making choices that steer away from sex. Those are choices that the individual should make and the writers shouldn't make them for us. We shouldn't be punished for trying to avoid them.

 

I also see that you avoided any mention about promoting sex to minors.

 

Calling BW sexist because you think you know what all women would do in a given situation purely because they are female?

 

 

How ironic. Or is it Hypocritical?

[Conan_K]

Your storylines are all geared towards men. Everything is tailored to being male. This is sexism in it's purest form. There are women who play these games and we deserve to be considered and treated as equals, not dismissed and made to submit to whatever whim you decide we should dance to. I've found that even when I try to avoid the sex (flirtng) or out right referral to having sex, it keeps coming back up. At one point, the only option I had was to pick one of the lesser evils to continue the game. The sad thing is....if we do try to avoid the sex references in the game, then we're punished with negative points. This would only have been designed by men, to satisfy their twisted pleasures, because a woman would never have dreamed of punching someone for not having sex or referring to sex in any situation.

 

The sad thing is, you're promoting sex to minors, because remember, minors play this game to and they come across the same situations where their choices for affection points require them to either flirt or have sex. While this might not seem like a lot, to some parents, if they knew their kids were being made to make these choices, might think twice about getting them the game. Even the titles are geared to men....Women are referred to as Lord, rather than Ladies.

 

I see slaves outfits and dancer outfits where women wear nearly nothing, yet I see nothing even closely related to that for men to wear. This suggests that the writers feel women should be made to subject themselves to degradating roles, but not men.

 

Not quite sure where the writers plan to take this next, but I do suggest they start considering women has major players instead of just toys for their sick pleasures.

 

• Insults - Please do not resort to or use them in any way in your posts. Posts should be productive, not destructive.
  
• Trolling - Please do not post messages that are purposefully designed to provoke, antagonize, or otherwise elicit a negative emotional response.
  
• Agree to Disagree - Be respectful of others' viewpoints even if they are opposite of your own. Discuss disagreements constructively.
  
• Flag, Don't Fight - Utilize the Flag Post feature to report possible rules violations, rather than responding to or fighting them.
  

 

Signed in just to tell you how sexist and offensive that statement is. And to ask you to troll elsewhere.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Conan_K

[Celacia]

The one you mentioned is about the third or fourth story mission. I remember it as well. You are correct to say that it fits the Agent storyline. Eriona also just flirted with the guy and left him hanging. No fade-to-black or even interaction in the future. I got Light Side points for not slaughtering the guy. That makes sense. How many times has James Bond flirted with a woman to get his way?

 

I am pretty sure my agent killed him anyway (after having her way with him, because she is like that). To be fair, she could have lured him to his room and then killed him without having her way with him too, not quite so likely for her in particular from an rp perspective. Just, you know, either way she did it quietly, in his room where it wouldn't attract attention, and yeah, I think that that is where the light side comes in for that choice.

[flyersfan]

I am pretty sure my agent killed him anyway (after having her way with him, because she is like that). To be fair, she could have lured him to his room and then killed him without having her way with him too, not quite so likely for her in particular from an rp perspective. Just, you know, either way she did it quietly, in his room where it wouldn't attract attention, and yeah, I think that that is where the light side comes in for that choice.

 

There are plenty of ways that an Agent hypothetically could have taken care of the situation, but the MMO hinders having that many options. If only this were KotOR III...

[Kaphik]

I have no idea what the OP is talking about. My mains are female characters and I found both the Consular story and Trooper story to be fantastic for both of them.

[In_cognito]

You know, if you're going to try and change something about the game it is best to consider making constructive criticism instead of spouting vile venom all over the place, it makes you look petty, if not pitiful.

 

Bielduwyn, my comments are meant to be constructive, to those who do the writing. There's nothing Petty or Pitiful about it. As for women writers, I wasn't aware of that and that surprises me, as why isn't that more evident in the writing. Why aren't there more constructive roles for women characters, not speaking about NPC's.

 

As for my particular incident where I had to make a choice, it was a companion conversation and all of the option, lead to "fade to black", except one. Orginally picking this one option, gave me negative points, which I felt wasn't fair. I did end the conversation and made the choice to pick one of the lesser "fade to black" choices in order to not get negative points. So, yes..I did make that decision and that was my free will, but I shouldn't have had to make that decision or face negative points. That's what I'm trying to say....

 

As far as kids seeing stronger stuff elsewhere...I never said that the exposure their getting from SWTOR was hardcore. I'm simply saying that this shouldn't even be an option for minors. So what if other sources give them more info, that's not the point, this is suppose to be a wholesome game for everyone.

 

As for my speaking for all women, if you read my second post, I corrected myself to say that most women, not all. I do not speak to anyone other than myself, but I do understand the female nature. There are always exceptions to every rule and there are women who prefer the more primal nature...so be it, but again...that should be a choice that if chosen, should not result in a loss of affection or points.

 

This forum is setup for people to express their opinions freely w/o fear of insult or attacks, yet that seems to be the opposite of reality. I'm glad I expressed my opinions, if for no other reason than to discover what SWTOR players are like. I see some positive here, but for the most part, I see negative. Whether you support my views or not, this is not a place for being rude or insulting and the fact that so many find it necessary to do so, would indicate a deep seeded animosity for opposition for any view that differs from your own. You might consider looking at that.

Edited April 15, 2012 by DiannaB