Really Bioware? REALLY?!!

[Ranadiel_Marius]

You can watch the dialog with the Senate page here, from 6 minutes+:

 

 

The Senate Page refers to Senator Parvil's work, calls any mention of the "true republic" drivel, and then says, "you may slow us down, but we will see his plans become reality", and these plans he even admits are unpopular.

 

It's a matter of interpretation what those "plans" are and why public knowledge of them would be so unpopular, but to me the dialogue with the Senate page basically confirms the true Republic group is telling the truth about what the Senator's up to. Perhaps it's the voice actor who to me sounds more sleezy than righteous in his indignation at stealing the parcel, but this thread - and comments on this quest at various SWTOR sites - confirms that for a lot of people, the light side choice isn't the right choice.

 

I will note that you said he said his ideaology would win, and both of those words are missing from the quote that you are countering me with.

 

And we know exactly what these plans are, or at least the "True Republics" version which may or may not be exagerated. He is building an alliance within the Senate to make a vote to break ties with the Jedi so that the Republic can make an alliance with the Empire, which in theory would put an end to the possibility of a war with the Empire saving countless lives. Realistically probably not what would happen, but hey you never know.

 

If the "True Republic" wanted to expose the Senator's plans they should have just released the info from whatever source they got the info from. Really the senator's page seemed quite proud of the work he was doing since he saw it as the right thing to do, and I imagine the Senator felt the same way so I doubt he would deny it(and if he tried to it wouldn't really work since he is plannign on calling a vote on it in the future). Going through the cloak and dagger games hardly makes them sympathetic when they have legitimate channels to go through.

 

As for whether it is the right thing to do? That is a personal decsion. Giving the documents to the "True Republic" is certainly more practical....but LS decisons are not always practical and in fact are quite reularly not practical. For example on the Esseles, it is more practical to kill off the engineering block or to hand over the diplomat. Both of these guarantee success and could easily be seen as serving the "greater good" in the situations. However they are DS options because being practical or serving the "greater good" does not make a decision LS. Just because a decison is LS does nto mean that it is the "right" choice

 

Actually, the Senator did put his political opponents on a terrorist watch list, and he is conducting his own negotiations with the Sith Empire, which in many countries would be outside the boundaries of what a legislative official could do and an abuse of office.

 

As for the Watergate comparison, the Watergate burglars were trying to wiretap the Democratic party headquarters to find out what their political strategy was - it was pure espionage solely to gain a political advantage.

 

Here at least you're searching for evidence of political misconduct. It's still not legal, but it's not just dirty tricks to win a campaign. It is a search for evidence, which is a lot more than the Watergate burglars were after. And the Senate page and his discussion of the Senator's unpopular "plans" doesn't exactly assure you that there isn't some evidence in that parcel, but the game admittedly doesn't say, exactly, you've found a smoking gun.

 

In any event, regardless of what you think of anything else that happens in this quest, you are awarded light side points for lying to the political reformer. Lying is almost never a light side option, and yet it is here. That part of the mission is at least strange. If you buy the whole sacrosanct political argument, then the "light side" option should be to go back and tell the truth to the nice orphaned political reformer and receive nothing at all for standing by your principles, the way you often get no reward in KOTOR for refusing to finish quests.

 

They aren't political opponents or political reformers, they are a bunch of loonies who believe themselves above the law and strongly believe in the true scottsman fallacy.

 

As for lying, I can think of other instances where lying is considered to be LSed. First one off the top of my head is the quest on Hutta where you lie to a mother about where her son and husband went in order to save the boy from a certain death on Korriban.

[Captain_Zone]

Jedi believe in Truth above all else.

 

ABOVE ALL ELSE!

 

They believe that the truth must be known for the proper decisions to be made.

 

Lying will ALWAYS be darkside.

 

Jedi are the biggest hypocrites to ever live, even in fiction. Like a few current Earth religions, they have broken their own tenets for the "greater good", and have waged unprovoked war. The Jedi waged it against the Sith. AFTER the Sith surrendered at the end of the Great Hyperspace War, the Jedi and Republic IGNORED IT! They decimated Korriban in an attempt at total GENOCIDE!!!!! WTMF IS THAT GARBAGE????

 

Did the women and children on Korriban deserve that? No. Did the slave caste deserve that? No. Am I sick of hearing how righteous and awesome the Jedi are? Yes.

 

Seriously, I recommend The Great Hyperspace War published by Dark Horse Comics to anyone who wishes to read how hypocritical the Jedi and Republic really are.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[ProfessorWalsh]

Jedi are the biggest hypocrites to ever live, even in fiction. Like a few current Earth religions, they have broken their own tenets for the "greater good", and have waged unprovoked war. The Jedi waged it against the Sith. AFTER the Sith surrendered at the end of the Great Hyperspace War, the Jedi and Republic IGNORED IT! They decimated Korriban in an attempt at total GENOCIDE!!!!! WTMF IS THAT GARBAGE????

 

That is a huge:

 

NO!

 

There buddy.

 

The Sith never surrendered at the end of the Great Hyperspace War. They continued to fight. The attacks against the Sith following the war were never unprovoked. In fact in the comics we know for a fact that the Sith chose to commit suicide rather than surrender. They never surrendered. If they had the Jedi and Republic would have stopped, in fact they kept offering the Sith a chance to surrender in the comics multiple times. They even offered Naga Sadow the chance to surrender and he was a pure out butcher who just slaughtered an entire star system.

 

Did the women and children on Korriban deserve that? No. Did the slave caste deserve that? No. Am I sick of hearing how righteous and awesome the Jedi are? Yes.

 

Actually we know that the women, children, and slave caste were actually put down by the Sith, not the Jedi. They ordered all of the slaves of any Sith killed when a Sith died so their spirits could serve them.

 

Seriously, I recommend The Great Hyperspace War published by Dark Horse Comics to anyone who wishes to read how hypocritical the Jedi and Republic really are.

 

Considering how incorrect you were on the facts of the GHW I'd say you need to read it because obviously you haven't.

[Captain_Zone]

That is a huge:

 

NO!

 

There buddy.

 

The Sith never surrendered at the end of the Great Hyperspace War. They continued to fight. The attacks against the Sith following the war were never unprovoked. In fact in the comics we know for a fact that the Sith chose to commit suicide rather than surrender. They never surrendered. If they had the Jedi and Republic would have stopped, in fact they kept offering the Sith a chance to surrender in the comics multiple times. They even offered Naga Sadow the chance to surrender and he was a pure out butcher who just slaughtered an entire star system.

 

 

 

Actually we know that the women, children, and slave caste were actually put down by the Sith, not the Jedi. They ordered all of the slaves of any Sith killed when a Sith died so their spirits could serve them.

 

 

 

Considering how incorrect you were on the facts of the GHW I'd say you need to read it because obviously you haven't.

 

It was years ago, but I probably need to re-read it now. I thought for sure that the ending was a bit different, though. I had just listened to the Timeline about it before posting, though. Seems maybe some conflicting lore there if what you say is true.

[ProfessorWalsh]

It was years ago, but I probably need to re-read it now. I thought for sure that the ending was a bit different, though. I had just listened to the Timeline about it before posting, though. Seems maybe some conflicting lore there if what you say is true.

 

There isn't any conflicting lore actually.

 

Gnost Dural gets trumped by any other C-Canon simply because nothing he says is actually canon. You see, when a character says something in character, such as in a timeline, all that is canonical about the statement is that the character said and/or believed it. If we actually see the event, and only if we see the event does it become canon. Thus the GHW comics, which were not a "point-of-view" event and instead was treated as viewing real-time events always trump anything Dural has to say.

 

Interesting fact:

 

I called BioWare on the lore inconsistencies at Celebration V when I was doing interviews for Ask A Jedi. The response from the dev was more or less that Gnost Dural is working from incomplete, and sometimes incorrect, information. Heck there are inconsistencies between what Dural says in the timeline and what he wrote in his own Journal (which were part of the Collector's Edition of Star Wars: The Old Republic).

[Captain_Zone]

There isn't any conflicting lore actually.

 

Gnost Dural gets trumped by any other C-Canon simply because nothing he says is actually canon. You see, when a character says something in character, such as in a timeline, all that is canonical about the statement is that the character said and/or believed it. If we actually see the event, and only if we see the event does it become canon. Thus the GHW comics, which were not a "point-of-view" event and instead was treated as viewing real-time events always trump anything Dural has to say.

 

Interesting fact:

 

I called BioWare on the lore inconsistencies at Celebration V when I was doing interviews for Ask A Jedi. The response from the dev was more or less that Gnost Dural is working from incomplete, and sometimes incorrect, information. Heck there are inconsistencies between what Dural says in the timeline and what he wrote in his own Journal (which were part of the Collector's Edition of Star Wars: The Old Republic).

 

That explains it. I will re-read it after work tomorrow. Too tired tonight, though.

[Captain_Zone]

Ok, just re-read GHW and I have to say in a sense we were both right, Prof. The Repubs and Jedi gave the Sith a chance, then immediately started bombing again when they refused to surrender. They had already crippled their ability to escape Korriban, but they kept on bombing anyway. It may not have been the Repubs' intent to commit genocide, but it sure as hell seemed like it. I can definitely see how Master Dural could have seen it the way he did, and why the accounts he had collected were slanted that way.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Ok, just re-read GHW and I have to say in a sense we were both right, Prof. The Repubs and Jedi gave the Sith a chance, then immediately started bombing again when they refused to surrender. They had already crippled their ability to escape Korriban, but they kept on bombing anyway. It may not have been the Repubs' intent to commit genocide, but it sure as hell seemed like it. I can definitely see how Master Dural could have seen it the way he did, and why the accounts he had collected were slanted that way.

 

Uhm...

 

Wait...

 

You do understand that is the point right?

 

You tell an opponent to surrender... The implied consequence of not doing that is the continued assault. If you tell your opponent to surrender, and they refuse to, and you stop attacking that defeats the point of offering them a chance to surrender.

 

I mean, that is terrible diplomacy:

 

Republic: "Sith Empire! We have defeated your forces and order you to surrender!"

 

Sith: "NEVER! The Republic will fall!"

 

Republic: "Well... Uh... Right then... We will... Uhm... Just go away then and not continue to fight you because clearly you are beaten despite the fact that you are still continuing to attack us and have sworn to destroy us."

 

You can't tell someone to surrender then not continue to attack if they refuse that just... Makes no sense.

 

In the words of Luke Skywalker, "Free us, or die. It is your choice but I warn you not to underestimate my power."

[Captain_Zone]

Uhm...

 

Wait...

 

You do understand that is the point right?

 

You tell an opponent to surrender... The implied consequence of not doing that is the continued assault. If you tell your opponent to surrender, and they refuse to, and you stop attacking that defeats the point of offering them a chance to surrender.

 

I mean, that is terrible diplomacy:

 

Republic: "Sith Empire! We have defeated your forces and order you to surrender!"

 

Sith: "NEVER! The Republic will fall!"

 

Republic: "Well... Uh... Right then... We will... Uhm... Just go away then and not continue to fight you because clearly you are beaten despite the fact that you are still continuing to attack us and have sworn to destroy us."

 

You can't tell someone to surrender then not continue to attack if they refuse that just... Makes no sense.

 

In the words of Luke Skywalker, "Free us, or die. It is your choice but I warn you not to underestimate my power."

 

They had other options. Blockade the system. Besiege the planet. Wait for surrender that way. Instead, they expended even more ammunition and the bodycount mounted even higher. Instead ot precision strikes against military only targets, they also targeted the civilian populace. Ironically enough, they took the quick and easy path. If the Republic fleet commander had half a brain cell, he would have done it differently. The Sith were already beaten in all but actual Surrender.

[nachoman_randy]

They had other options. Blockade the system. Besiege the planet. Wait for surrender that way. Instead, they expended even more ammunition and the bodycount mounted even higher. Instead ot precision strikes against military only targets, they also targeted the civilian populace. Ironically enough, they took the quick and easy path. If the Republic fleet commander had half a brain cell, he would have done it differently. The Sith were already beaten in all but actual Surrender.

You know....they could just surrender....

[jgelling]

They had other options. Blockade the system. Besiege the planet. Wait for surrender that way. Instead, they expended even more ammunition and the bodycount mounted even higher. Instead ot precision strikes against military only targets, they also targeted the civilian populace. Ironically enough, they took the quick and easy path. If the Republic fleet commander had half a brain cell, he would have done it differently. The Sith were already beaten in all but actual Surrender.

 

It's probably worth pointing out that you can't force an entire planet to surrender with a blockade. Habitable planets have a nasty habit of being you know, self-sufficient. Blockades alone couldn't defeat either Napoleonic France or Germany - small slivers of planet Earth, and we might as well be "blockaded" now by aliens and it would have little real impact on earth, short of taking out GPS and weather satellites. Somehow I don't see blockade as a realistic option to force surrender on a planetary scale.

 

Blockades only work against small, isolated territories that aren't self-sufficient in food and resources, and even then they rarely force surrender - they just make a future invasion a bit less bloody.

Edited April 28, 2012 by jgelling

[KorinHyvek]

It's probably worth pointing out that you can't force an entire planet to surrender with a blockade. Habitable planets have a nasty habit of being you know, self-sufficient. Blockades alone couldn't defeat either Napoleonic France or Germany - small slivers of planet Earth, and we might as well be "blockaded" now by aliens and it would have little real impact on earth, short of taking out GPS and weather satellites. Somehow I don't see blockade as a realistic option to force surrender on a planetary scale.

 

Blockades only work against small, isolated territories that aren't self-sufficient in food and resources, and even then they rarely force surrender - they just make a future invasion a bit less bloody.

 

technically, the planets in question could be relying on imported food. Irregardless, though, a Blockade would prevent them from ever becoming a threat until a peaceful solution could be found.

 

That being said, we're kind of getting off topic now. If we want to debate the ethics of the end of the Great Hyperspace War, that's fine, but we might be better off creating a new thread.

Edited April 29, 2012 by KorinHyvek

[Velaran]

Hey... Wait, who made the decision for the Sith not to surrender? The central Sith government was in shambles by the time the Republic offered, so who would have the authority to make the entire planet keep fighting? Edited April 29, 2012 by Velaran

[Icebergy]

Really Madprofstein?!?!?!?! REALLY????!?!?! REALLY???!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??? REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

EDIT: Seriously? SERIOUSLLY????!???! ARE YOU SERIOUS RIGHT NOW??!!

Edited April 29, 2012 by Icebergy

[KorinHyvek]

Hey... Wait, who made the decision for the Sith not to surrender? The central Sith government was in shambles by the time the Republic offered, so who would have the authority to make the entire planet keep fighting?

 

That is an excellent question. I could swear most of the original dark council was dead or in exile by that period, so how on earth was there any central government to surrender in the first place?

[ProfessorWalsh]

They had other options. Blockade the system. Besiege the planet. Wait for surrender that way. Instead, they expended even more ammunition and the bodycount mounted even higher. Instead ot precision strikes against military only targets, they also targeted the civilian populace. Ironically enough, they took the quick and easy path. If the Republic fleet commander had half a brain cell, he would have done it differently. The Sith were already beaten in all but actual Surrender.

 

Those are *NOT* options. Also you have no proof that they didn't strike against military targets, especially due to the fact that the Sith had no concept of "non-military target" themselves. There is no proof that they targeted civilian populations because to the Sith there were no civilian populations.

 

Your option would have required decades of occupation, thousands of warships, millions of soldiers, trillions of Republic credits all to spare a people who had sworn and continued to swear vengeance against the Republic. On top of that these were a huge population of Force Users who had already demonstrated that they could blow up an entire Star System with their minds.

 

That is a weapon that not even the Jedi knew how to defend against and nobody knew if anyone else in Sith space could do it.

 

Your attachment to pacifism is commendable, but it isn't feasible, the only solution to the Sith is to force them to surrender completely and force them to acknowledge you as their superior opponent in a decisive faction, a war of attrition as you suggest wouldn't work. Barring that, unfortunately due to their nature, the Sith have to be destroyed completely and their teachings wiped out... It, sadly, is the only way.

[KorinHyvek]

Those are *NOT* options. Also you have no proof that they didn't strike against military targets, especially due to the fact that the Sith had no concept of "non-military target" themselves. There is no proof that they targeted civilian populations because to the Sith there were no civilian populations.

 

Yeah, no. The Sith had less industry than the republic and relied heavily on slave labor. Without an enormous amount of automation, there's no way such a society can exist. They would have had only a small percentage of the population trained for war.

 

Besides, the Sith had thrown everything they had at the republic. There was nothing left to fight with besides maybe the occasional transport or blaster.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Yeah, no. The Sith had less industry than the republic and relied heavily on slave labor. Without an enormous amount of automation, there's no way such a society can exist. They would have had only a small percentage of the population trained for war.

 

Did you ever read the GHW? They didn't have a large population of warriors. Only a small portion even participated in the GHW. They succeeded in nearly wiping out all life on numerous planets and destroyed countless trillions of lives when they blew up an entire solar system. They did this in a very short amount of time. Seriously, they did this in around a week, they were too dangerous to try to contain without an unconditional surrender so that they could be disarmed and have the Force Users with training separated and the Sith teachings destroyed to prevent another unwarranted act of aggression.

 

Besides, the Sith had thrown everything they had at the republic. There was nothing left to fight with besides maybe the occasional transport or blaster.

 

No, they didn't. Re-read it. Naga Sadow threw around half of the war forces of the Sith at the Republic in the GHW. Remember there was a huge fleet of Sith ships that jumped Sadow on his return.

 

Had the Sith, yes the SITH contacted the Republic after the Kressh/Sadow conflict and said:

 

"We surrender, we were tricked by Sadow into attacking, we agree to disarm and allow diplomats to speak with us."

 

Then they wouldn't have been wiped out.

 

Why do you blame the Republic when the Sith brought it on themselves.

 

Edit:

How you can blame the Republic and not hold the Sith accountable is beyond me. The Republic was not wrong for not continuing their attack when the Sith did not comply with the offer from the Republic to surrender. The Sith were wrong for not surrendering after they attacked without warning to or provocation from the Republic.

Edited April 29, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[Felbear]

The Republic has freedom of speech, he has the right to say whatever he wants just because people don't like it doesn't make it wrong. On the other hand you stealing from him is wrong.

[Ravager]

Did you ever read the GHW? They didn't have a large population of warriors. Only a small portion even participated in the GHW. They succeeded in nearly wiping out all life on numerous planets and destroyed countless trillions of lives when they blew up an entire solar system. They did this in a very short amount of time. Seriously, they did this in around a week, they were too dangerous to try to contain without an unconditional surrender so that they could be disarmed and have the Force Users with training separated and the Sith teachings destroyed to prevent another unwarranted act of aggression.

 

No, they didn't. Re-read it. Naga Sadow threw around half of the war forces of the Sith at the Republic in the GHW. Remember there was a huge fleet of Sith ships that jumped Sadow on his return.

 

Had the Sith, yes the SITH contacted the Republic after the Kressh/Sadow conflict and said:

 

"We surrender, we were tricked by Sadow into attacking, we agree to disarm and allow diplomats to speak with us."

 

Then they wouldn't have been wiped out.

 

Why do you blame the Republic when the Sith brought it on themselves.

 

Edit:

How you can blame the Republic and not hold the Sith accountable is beyond me. The Republic was not wrong for not continuing their attack when the Sith did not comply with the offer from the Republic to surrender. The Sith were wrong for not surrendering after they attacked without warning to or provocation from the Republic.

 

Yes, Walsh, I did read it; and it said nothing about wiping out all life on numerous planets or the deaths of trillions of lives due to the destruction of a red giant which presumably has no habitable life. This seems like a large amount of assumptions. They did, indeed, have a small population of warriors in comparison to the Republic's armies (hence the need for Force illusions), but where was it said it lasted a week, though? How do we know how long the war lasted, let alone the incursions by the Republic afterward? I assume it was short, but we can't know for sure.

 

Nevertheless, I see your point, but I disagree with it. We reference the Sith Empire as a single entity that was extremely dangerous to the Republic, but we often forget how many lives were destroyed after the Republic made it to Korriban - lives that could have been redeemed or saved. I don't know where the statement "half of Sith forces were destroyed under Naga Sadow" came from, either (that's a big assumption), but clearly the Republic had victory in their hands. It would have taken time, but they could've saved the lower castes who had been indoctrinated by the Lords and the Kissai caste and liberated them from the surviving Sith Lords. Instead, they destroyed them, and it gave the Sith a scapegoat to use hundreds of years later. Imagine if the Sith survived the War and lived under the Republic, how they could've helped against the resurgent Empire.

 

You say that it would cost trillions of credits and years time, so be it. It's better than the quick, easy path of destroying the Sith outright.

 

EDIT: I am actually looking back to Tales of the Jedi, and you are incorrect about half of the Sith fleet being left in the Empire (page 46, Fall of the Sith Empire):

 

Gav Daragon: "But is it really wise to take all these ships and leave your entire empire practically undefended?"

 

Naga Sadow: "We already control the Sith Empire, Gav... we must concentrate on our new target."

 

This is in conjunction with the statement later, after the retreat from Primus Goluud: "Only a few of Naga Sadow's ships make it back to the Sith Empire... all that remains of a fighting force that meant to challenge the galaxy." Effectively, the Sith were left defenseless at home. This actually helps explain the fact that suicide attacks followed; with the Republic overwhelmingly powerful and now attacking strongholds across the Empire (they only demanded Sadow surrender... which is stupid, because immediately after refusing surrender he abandons his people to go into hiding), the Sith were left with no other choice but to fight this way. Perhaps it was due to Sith teachings, but I also think it is to defend their homes. If the Republic had been more diplomatic (they could have - the Sith had nothing else to fight with), then maybe things would have turned out differently.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Ravager

[ProfessorWalsh]

Perhaps it was due to Sith teachings, but I also think it is to defend their homes. If the Republic had been more diplomatic (they could have - the Sith had nothing else to fight with), then maybe things would have turned out differently.

 

And if the Sith had surrendered and allowed themselves to be properly disarmed then things might have turned out differently as well. If the Jedi hadn't stayed the hand of the Republic who wanted to execute all of the Dark Jedi who later became the Sith after the Hundred Years of Darkness and instead lead the Republic end them then there also likewise would have been a different outcome.

 

The Jedi and Republic tried to be diplomatic, they tried to let the Sith live once, it ended with the Republic almost being destroyed. The Sith are insane, they cannot be reasoned with.

[Captain_Zone]

Those are *NOT* options. Also you have no proof that they didn't strike against military targets, especially due to the fact that the Sith had no concept of "non-military target" themselves. There is no proof that they targeted civilian populations because to the Sith there were no civilian populations.

 

Your option would have required decades of occupation, thousands of warships, millions of soldiers, trillions of Republic credits all to spare a people who had sworn and continued to swear vengeance against the Republic. On top of that these were a huge population of Force Users who had already demonstrated that they could blow up an entire Star System with their minds.

 

That is a weapon that not even the Jedi knew how to defend against and nobody knew if anyone else in Sith space could do it.

 

Your attachment to pacifism is commendable, but it isn't feasible, the only solution to the Sith is to force them to surrender completely and force them to acknowledge you as their superior opponent in a decisive faction, a war of attrition as you suggest wouldn't work. Barring that, unfortunately due to their nature, the Sith have to be destroyed completely and their teachings wiped out... It, sadly, is the only way.

 

Ok, you misunderstood there. I said ALSO, as in IN ADDITION TO. They basically carpet bombed the hell out of the remaining Sith. They had won the war with all but a formal surrender, but they just kept attacking. ANY halfway decent commander would know that you do NOT destroy a defenseless enemy if they refuse to surrender. You take them alive IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, or you wait them out. A blockade could have satisfied the latter option without the needless civilian casualties.

 

As far as being a pacifist, you have me wrong on that score. I would just prefer NOT to be remembered as a war criminal.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Ok, you misunderstood there. I said ALSO, as in IN ADDITION TO. They basically carpet bombed the hell out of the remaining Sith. They had won the war with all but a formal surrender, but they just kept attacking. ANY halfway decent commander would know that you do NOT destroy a defenseless enemy if they refuse to surrender. You take them alive IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, or you wait them out. A blockade could have satisfied the latter option without the needless civilian casualties.

 

No, no "halfway decent commander" would stop the attack after an enemy failed to surrender and instead pledged renewed attack. The Republic weren't war criminals either.

 

1. The Republic never attacked Sith Civilians.

 

The Sith don't have civilians to attack. In the Sith society everyone is a military target and a member of the military. There are no bystanders.

 

2. A blockade wouldn't have worked.

 

This isn't "The Old Republic" where a Trooper is as good as a Force User. This is the real canon where literally a single skilled Force User is as good as 1000 non-Force Users with high amounts of training. This is the kind of nightmare situation someone would find themselves in when they are trying to contain an entire planet of super-humans.

 

3. The Jedi always try to take them alive if it is possible.

 

What you fail to understand is that it wasn't possible.

 

Also, note:

 

We saw Sadow wipe out an entire fleet when he blew the sun. You claim the system had no inhabitants, I beg to differ, even if there weren't there was an entire fleet. Each ship carrying thousands of people. There was, again, nothing wrong with continuing to attack the Sith when they refused to surrender.

 

The worst thing that you can ever do when facing a delusional enemy who has morals that parallel a bully's like the Sith is to ever back down until they surrender. The second you do they take that as a sign of weakness on your part and that only bolsters their moral and increases their resolve.

 

If I have to choose to blow apart a Sith village or let 100 Republic citizens die then I'm sorry, but that village goes boom. It is a military target as it has Sith in it. It is a threat to me and the people I am pledged to protect. I would not waste lives, personnel, and equipment blockading a race that almost wiped the Republic out and who are promising to do it when I know for a fact that one of them, alone, can potentially wipe out an entire solar system.

[Captain_Zone]

No, no "halfway decent commander" would stop the attack after an enemy failed to surrender and instead pledged renewed attack. The Republic weren't war criminals either.

 

1. The Republic never attacked Sith Civilians.

 

The Sith don't have civilians to attack. In the Sith society everyone is a military target and a member of the military. There are no bystanders.

 

2. A blockade wouldn't have worked.

 

This isn't "The Old Republic" where a Trooper is as good as a Force User. This is the real canon where literally a single skilled Force User is as good as 1000 non-Force Users with high amounts of training. This is the kind of nightmare situation someone would find themselves in when they are trying to contain an entire planet of super-humans.

 

3. The Jedi always try to take them alive if it is possible.

 

What you fail to understand is that it wasn't possible.

 

Also, note:

 

We saw Sadow wipe out an entire fleet when he blew the sun. You claim the system had no inhabitants, I beg to differ, even if there weren't there was an entire fleet. Each ship carrying thousands of people. There was, again, nothing wrong with continuing to attack the Sith when they refused to surrender.

 

The worst thing that you can ever do when facing a delusional enemy who has morals that parallel a bully's like the Sith is to ever back down until they surrender. The second you do they take that as a sign of weakness on your part and that only bolsters their moral and increases their resolve.

 

If I have to choose to blow apart a Sith village or let 100 Republic citizens die then I'm sorry, but that village goes boom. It is a military target as it has Sith in it. It is a threat to me and the people I am pledged to protect. I would not waste lives, personnel, and equipment blockading a race that almost wiped the Republic out and who are promising to do it when I know for a fact that one of them, alone, can potentially wipe out an entire solar system.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point, then. I still, and will always believe it could have been handled better. 90% - 95% of the Sith's military capabilities were already wiped out. To me, there was no need for genocide.

[ProfessorWalsh]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point, then. I still, and will always believe it could have been handled better. 90% - 95% of the Sith's military capabilities were already wiped out. To me, there was no need for genocide.

 

Sure it could have been handled better. Though there was no genocide.

 

The best way to handle it would have been for the Sith to surrender to the Republic and explain that they were duped by Naga Sadow. Heck, technically the entire GHW was because Naga Sadow lied to the Sith people and convinced them that the Republic had attacked them. The whole thing was caused by one giant lie.