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1.2 feedback: Melee DPS is too strong relative to sage/sorc "caster" DPS.


Visue

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As a light-armored DPS sage playing Telekinetics, I don't cause nearly as much damage to equally geared melee classes as I take from them in 1v1 encounters.

 

I have mostly BM gear (~1050 expertise), and I feel as though I can really only contribute to a warzone team when no one notices me. Once a melee decides to start chasing me down, I typically struggle to do much of any damage at all while trying to run, especially against heavy armor and more substantive health pools. A single instant-cast swing from a sentinel can knock out a good fourth of my ~15,500 HP, while my own attacks land for a fraction of that damage and require long cast times which are susceptible interruption and pushback.

 

TL;DR -- Compared to knights/warriors, 1.2 sages/sorcs are a lot of glass without the cannon.

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and you have a:

 

Stun.

Knockback..

Mez...

Slow....

+Speed.....

various other abilities in the trees that immobilize or slow or stun.......

heal(s).......

 

oh yeah and those 7 other people called team mates........

Edited by EchoTwoOmega
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As a light-armored DPS sage playing Telekinetics, I don't cause nearly as much damage to equally geared melee classes as I take from them in 1v1 encounters.

 

I have mostly BM gear (~1050 expertise), and I feel as though I can really only contribute to a warzone team when no one notices me. Once a melee decides to start chasing me down, I typically struggle to do much of any damage at all while trying to run, especially against heavy armor and more substantive health pools. A single instant-cast swing from a sentinel can knock out a good fourth of my ~15,500 HP, while my own attacks land for a fraction of that damage and require long cast times which are susceptible interruption and pushback.

 

TL;DR -- Compared to knights/warriors, 1.2 sages/sorcs are a lot of glass without the cannon.

 

Maybe you need to respec if you struggle with keeping meleers at bay. Don't know any class with so many tools to CC. Go for a hybrid spec madness/lightning and pick up all the CC stuff. Ofc you'll do less damage then. But you can't have everything.

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After 1.2 clothies don't have much of a chance 1vs 1 against melee. They are insanely squishy. If a mara does a ravage on you 50% of your hp is gone even with full BM gear. Then your easy pickins as one more hit puts you below 30% and they lop your head off from afar with a throw. Bio really screwed clothies over with this patch. You can't put out enough dps while trying to keep from getting 3 shotted.
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After 1.2 clothies don't have much of a chance 1vs 1 against melee. They are insanely squishy. If a mara does a ravage on you 50% of your hp is gone even with full BM gear. Then your easy pickins as one more hit puts you below 30% and they lop your head off from afar with a throw. Bio really screwed clothies over with this patch. You can't put out enough dps while trying to keep from getting 3 shotted.

 

 

 

You say this, but I just finished a match earlier today, where a Sorc pulled 600k Damage the entire warzone, and i have yet to see a MDPS do that.

 

You really need to utilize your groups. Heals need to be in place, a tank if you have one, needs to be taunting/guarding, and DPS need to focus on keeping the other team's dps off the healer (or killing the other team's healers.) If you work together, you do not have such a horrible time pvping. Sorry, but the idea of "I can run in and win against anything without talking to my team, or working with them" is not how PvP should be at all.

Edited by Braeng
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Melee dps HAS to be higher than ranged dps. Ranged dps have many more tools (especially sorcs) and the ability to kite a melee; this is barring the fact that you can deal damage from RANGE (from 30 yards away). Melee are always in the thick of things and usually have less dps uptime than a ranged, thus they are compensated with better defensive CDs and higher damage WHEN in range.

 

You fight a melee in melee, you will lose. You kite a melee, and fight him from solid positioning, you'll almost always win. And for sorcs specifically... come on man, you can pull 400K+ damage while putting out 100k+ healing, quit whining.

Edited by Anbokr
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and you have a:

 

Stun.

Knockback..

Mez...

Slow....

+Speed.....

various other abilities in the trees that immobilize or slow or stun.......

heal(s).......

 

oh yeah and those 7 other people called team mates........

 

none of that helps a carnage mara that pops ravage on you, not to mention all of the other roots they have, lets add in unstoppable for jugg too not to mention their push and procced leap

 

i hate to tell you this but unless youre running a premade most of your teammates arent paying attention to you

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none of that helps a carnage mara that pops ravage on you, not to mention all of the other roots they have, lets add in unstoppable for jugg too not to mention their push and procced leap

 

i hate to tell you this but unless youre running a premade most of your teammates arent paying attention to you

 

Pretty sure stun, mez and knockbacks stop them from channeling Ravage.

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Marauders and sentinels need to be looked at by devs, and then nerfed to the ground because they're ridiculously gamebraking.

 

They're mostly terribads who waste their cds and charges in stupid ways and so get a lousy uptime on their targets, resulting in 150-200k dmg at the end of games, making them look "average" still, played by utter mongs, the class is INSANE at killing basically everything. And when you get one that has more than 1 finger on at least one of his hands, he goes on and does 6-800k in his sleep.

 

Either nerf their damage or their survivability, because this clownish charade can't go on like this.

 

This class has been ruining pvp since release, and now that everyone is rolling one (wonder why) it's really getting beyond frustrating.

 

And after that, look at assassin tanks cause they do way to much damage for the role they're supposed to be covering.

Edited by AzKnc
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Marauders and sentinels need to be looked at by devs, and then nerfed to to ground because they're ridiculously gamebraking.

 

They're mostly terribads who waste their cd and charges in stupid ways and so get a lousy uptime on their targets, resulting in 150-200k dmg at the end of games, making them look "average" still, played by utter mongs, the class is INSANE at killing basically everything. And when you get one that has more than 1 finger on at least one of his hands, he goes on and does 6-800k in his sleep.

 

Either nerf their damage or their survivability, because this clownish charade can't go on like this.

 

This class has been ruining pvp since release, and now that everyone is rolling one (wonder why) it's really getting beyond frustrating.

 

And after that, look at assassin tanks cause they doo way to much damage for the role they're supposed to be covering.

 

tldr nerf anything that threatens me or my class because i dont know how to kite or counter and dont care to learn how. i get charged and die, y this happen??? Pay attention to the marauders CDs, he's insanely squish without them--hit him hard when they aren't up and CC when they go up. Kite for a couple seconds (this class is insanely susceptible to kiting), force him to use his vanish offensively so he can't use it defensively.

 

If he's annihilation, dispel his DoTs. Hard countered.

If he's rage, make sure to use your defensive CDs or knockback before smash--you can see this coming. Hard countered.

If he's carnage, save your stun/knockback for gore. Hard countered.

 

Marauders, out of any class, have the clearest counters as all three specs revolve around specific abilities. Dispels counter annihilation, watching gore beats carnage, and watching for gimmick smash beats rage. You can't tunnel vision, hit your 3 damage buttons in melee range against a marauder. You have to play smart.

Edited by Anbokr
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I find this thread amusing. As amussing as those 3 counselors in my last WZ that were killing people with **1*** dot application each. It's cool when each tick of a dot crits as hard as one of my abilities.
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As a light-armored DPS sage playing Telekinetics, I don't cause nearly as much damage to equally geared melee classes as I take from them in 1v1 encounters.

 

I have mostly BM gear (~1050 expertise), and I feel as though I can really only contribute to a warzone team when no one notices me. Once a melee decides to start chasing me down, I typically struggle to do much of any damage at all while trying to run, especially against heavy armor and more substantive health pools. A single instant-cast swing from a sentinel can knock out a good fourth of my ~15,500 HP, while my own attacks land for a fraction of that damage and require long cast times which are susceptible interruption and pushback.

 

TL;DR -- Compared to knights/warriors, 1.2 sages/sorcs are a lot of glass without the cannon.

 

Your main advantage as ranged is to be able to pick your fights and engage/disengage much more quickly than melee. Melee is very committed once they attack a target, they are exposed and must be located near their target. The trick is mostly in picking your fights (location, odds, timing).

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Pretty sure resolve kicks in after one lift mez and a stun. They Nerf on safe/sorc was not needed. Maras need reigning in I'm afraid, it's obvious to anyone with a clue.

 

this is really situational, some of the nerf was i.e. hybrid spec damage output was high in some cases. As a sorc, maras are about as close to a hard counter as you are going to find i would advise trying to avoid going one on one with them in an even fight if possible.

 

However, i'm surprised that the force restored while casting telekinetic throw/lightening wasn't buffed, because that spec nets a huge force loss over longer term fights.

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As madness I don't burst people as fast as a marauder, but I can tie up a single person for an extended period of time. I'm okay with that. Sorcs get dots rolling and people go down quick. Even solo in mostly recruit gear I can keep a BM marauder at bay for upwards of 15+ seconds using Creeping Terror, Force Slow, Overload, and Force Speed. Most of their damage is mobile (aside from Force Lightning).

 

Lightning, on the other hand, is screwed. Everything has a cast time. They have a few decent cc's but they really can't output any damage when threatened. Their big damage moves do half the damage of instant cast melee bombs and all require some kind of cast time. I expect some folks to say "well duh use madness! deerrrp!" except some folks want a nuker playstyle and not a dotter playstyle. They should tweak it so that Lightning has a viable pvp talent spec, presuming the person chooses the pvp talents instead of the pve ones. Right now they just don't have options, whereas Madness inherently plays well in pvp and pve.

 

Corruption...well....I won't go there. I have no intention of touching healing in pvp anytime soon.

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Even DPS spec you can heal yourself pretty well.

 

It's a losing battle right now for healers and you're trying to convince us that people not spec'd for it can heal themselves well? Can I have some of what you're smoking?

 

Edit: As a clarification, the damage output of any comparably geared dps class blows the healing the dps specs can do out of the water. There's no reason to stop and cast a heal unless we're not actually fighting (ie not threatened by someone) or we're stuck in combat.

Edited by Niil
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Even DPS spec you can heal yourself pretty well.

 

Really?

dps spec you will be knocked back w/ every hit and your heals cost a lot of force. It's great for getting medals healing yourself back up after a fight then getting force back with the out of combat regen. Otherwise, for the most part, if you are healing as a dps sage you are doing it wrong. (possible exceptions being healing ball carrier, using mez self healing a bit)

 

Especially in 1 on 1, healing yourself as a dps sage is not the way to go, your opponent will generally do the damage you would heal over the amount of time you spent healing.

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To fall in line with all the people that used to complain about Sorc before 1.2:

 

I have no respect for any Marauder anymore. In the current state of the game they can pull off all they want without even getting close to impressing me. Faceroll FOTM class that serious PVPers would never ever sign up to a WZ with.

 

See what I did there.

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tldr nerf anything that threatens me or my class because i dont know how to kite or counter and dont care to learn how. i get charged and die, y this happen??? Pay attention to the marauders CDs, he's insanely squish without them--hit him hard when they aren't up and CC when they go up. Kite for a couple seconds (this class is insanely susceptible to kiting), force him to use his vanish offensively so he can't use it defensively.

 

If he's annihilation, dispel his DoTs. Hard countered.

If he's rage, make sure to use your defensive CDs or knockback before smash--you can see this coming. Hard countered.

If he's carnage, save your stun/knockback for gore. Hard countered.

 

Marauders, out of any class, have the clearest counters as all three specs revolve around specific abilities. Dispels counter annihilation, watching gore beats carnage, and watching for gimmick smash beats rage. You can't tunnel vision, hit your 3 damage buttons in melee range against a marauder. You have to play smart.

 

I guess this is supposed to be a joke, and you're one of those who thinks he's doing well on his mara just because he's skilled amirite?

 

Your "hard counters" are also fairly amusing, annihilation, dispel dots, sure, too bad only sage/sorcs dispell them and besides they still do damage with strikes and reapply constantly every 6 and 12 seconds the pressure is eventually just too much regardless of dispelling. Rage, defensive cds to avoid 1 smash, fine, what about all the smashes that are gonna follow that first one? Carnage, save your stun/knockback (whatever class we're talking about, have longer cds than 12 sec charge) then they're full resolve and you're dead.

 

"This class is extremely suscepitble to kiting" Yeah right, with 12 sec charge, and camo, they're only susceptible to kiting if they're morons and don't snare you.

 

Also "tldr nerf everything that threatens my class", i'm not a sorc nor a sage, and marauders/sentinels threaten ALL classes, ****, they're even fine at ****** tanks and sin/shadow tanks.

 

I think you need a relity check on the matter, mister.

Edited by AzKnc
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