On Warzone Scoring and Rewards

[Rhaj]

There is a minimum requirement of 3 medals to gain any rewards. You only got 2 medals, therefore no rewards.

 

Furthermore, 3 medals isn't much. The maximum is 8. In this regard, Bioware doesn't owe you anything just because you don't read the rules or do very well in PvP.

 

You do realize that in many cases gaining medals is completely divorced from the objectives for actually winning the match, right?

 

In a losing match, if your team is outmatched and basically getting farmed, your options are leave the war zone and re-queue, go camp the one node your team hopefully controls in the hopes of getting 3 defender medals before the match ends, or you can venture out and hope to get a one-on-one encounter with an opposing player to get the solo kill medal or the 2500 damage in one hit medal. None of these things has anything to do with winning the match, but are the only ways to earn any form of reward/currency.

 

PVP rewards should encourage players to, you know, actually compete and engage in PVP.

[arkzehhh]

The new PVP system is flawed and creates a larger gap between players who have gear and those that do not. The pre 1.2 system for rewards was far superior it rewards participation in the event and it did not matter if you were winning or losing. Now players leave WZ's on my server the moment we start to lose just because they do not want the WZ com reduction and would rather wait in queue then spend 15 to 20 minutes in a match for such low rewards if you happen to be on the losing side.

 

Saw it alot aswell, they need too fix this crap asap....or bb players.

[Heathenx]

I was having fun in warzones before the last updates. I was leveling alts in pvp, and slowly grinding rewards on my mains. Now that's shot to hell. I can't understand how you took a game that was fun, and made it just an exercise in frustration. This was a casual friendly game, dunno why you changed it.

[Elkirin]

The double hit of reducing rewards and nerfing many favorite classes has reduced the fun factor for many players in PvP.

 

This reduces the number in the queue and increases the risk of being sent in late to an uneven match.

 

I suggest, you increase the fun factor, increase the rewards for participating and find a way to increase the pool of players.

 

Otherwise, you can pretty much watch match wait times blow out. "watching metrics" is not enough......

 

Good luck.

[MoMeter]

You do realize that in many cases gaining medals is completely divorced from the objectives for actually winning the match, right?

 

In a losing match, if your team is outmatched and basically getting farmed, your options are leave the war zone and re-queue, go camp the one node your team hopefully controls in the hopes of getting 3 defender medals before the match ends, or you can venture out and hope to get a one-on-one encounter with an opposing player to get the solo kill medal or the 2500 damage in one hit medal. None of these things has anything to do with winning the match, but are the only ways to earn any form of reward/currency.

 

PVP rewards should encourage players to, you know, actually compete and engage in PVP.

 

No, this is blatantly untrue. If you are a class whose overall role is to tank you should be getting protection medals and kill medals. If you are a healer, you should be getting heal medals and kill medals. If you are a pure dps class like a marauder you should be getting kill and damage medals.

 

I understand what it's like to sit at a node and protect it the whole game. But quite honestly, if you are sitting at, let's say snow in civil war, for so long all u get is 2 defender medals and nothing else, chances are no one is attacking that base and you aren't being much help. This is when you must make a difficult decision to stay, or join the greater battle and help cap the other node.

 

Obtaining 3 medals as any class when you start in the beginning of the match is easy no matter what your class/role. Just because you do not adapt to the current game and leave an objective to go and fight doesn't mean you did what was best for the team.. if no one is hitting a node/door you are at for SO LONG YOU GET 2 MEDALS then you are making a bad judgement call in what is an effective tactic for that particular match, and have earned your zero rewards.

 

In the case of joining a match late, obviously the system is designed around being there the whole time and getting there late is an unlucky pick of the draw and you can always leave if you feel it's tat bad. But if you are there from the moment the gate first opens and only get 2 medals, you were ineffective in that match. 3 medals is barely anything.

Edited April 18, 2012 by MoMeter

[kercchaos]

The PVP daily needs a fix I think, I'm getting 7k exp and level 45 and about 800credits compared to pre 1.2 where the daily would offer 20k exp at my level and about 4-5k credits.

 

I'm not sure if this is a bug or intended but it's not really very awesome.

[DralenBrand]

Why does every game always need to make things easier for people who are bad in pvp.

 

 

This one doesn't, lol. It makes it easier for those who are good at PvP by rewarding them with gear that further handicaps those who are already weak. I don't see why BW wants to reward the Mike Tysons of PvP with any more advantage over the Steven Urkel's of the world than they already have. Just me, but I don't want an edge over anyone I already have an easy time defeating...

 

[skrapel]

i am kinda sad about the amount of creds you get if you loose (0) and the amount if you win (the most i have evar gotten is 60:mad:) that really makes me mad because pvp was my main "cred maker" before the update so swtor can you makw the cred rewards back to the way they where thx:o

[Darkfjord]

Is BW ever going to address the gross server imbalances? I have a republic guild on a completely dead server. The winning percentage in PvP is 10-15%... on a good day. It take us 4-5 days to complete the dailies and forget about the weekly. We are against the imperials who reversely win +90% of the time... as you can imagine their gear progression rate is substantially fast than the republic which results in roflstomp fests from hell. Most of the good pvper on server dont even queue pvp anymore which just makes things even worse. Top that with; as soon as the imperials start to win...everyone bails... including me when it is 8-3... fat chance getting even 1 medal at that point. I know this might be a shock to some of you but it isnt fun pvping with at 10-15% winning record.

 

Here is the real sad part, i have 2 x 50's and run a guild on this server so even if there was server transfers with are we suppose to do... I didnt even choose this bunk server, it was allocated to me pre-release.

 

And PVE...forget it, there is never more than 35 people on the fleet station to PuG for operations or flashpoints either...i like this game, too bad im stuck on this bloody dead server, i dont even feel like playing anymore - Does this sound familiar to any of you?

 

One last note. Change the daily requirement from "winning 3" to just "playing 5"... then those of us on the dead servers have a chance a completing the bloody daily's.

[Varicite]

also, i believe their pts shortcomings didn't accurately reflect live server behaviors. obviously, people are leaving matches more frequently after the patch than they were before. perhaps pvpers on pts just wanted to fight and didnt care about rewards, so it wasn't that big of an issue, etc.

 

There weren't enough lv50s on the PTS to reliably test the PvP at all. Some were reporting 6 hour queue times before simply leaving queue.

 

The problem is the lack of a character copy or lv50 default character for the PTS. These changes were NOT tested, and we begged Bioware to let us test them because we were concerned. Only a select few (PvE-oriented) guilds were copied over to the PTS, and of those guilds, not enough cared about PvP and were on at the same time to get any real metrics from PvP matches.

 

Bioware, if you want to know the first step to not looking like complete amateurs every single time you implement a new patch, FIND A WAY TO MAKE A CHARACTER COPY OR DEFAULT LV50 CHARACTER TEMPLATE FOR THE PTS.

 

Seriously, you have a Public Test Server, and no real way for the public to test anything meaningful on it. No sane person is going to see new patch notes and then level the exact same class they already leveled to 50 all over again (in an undetermined time frame before the patch comes out) just to test the changes, and it's extremely asinine to even expect this of players.

 

/slap -Daniel Erickson! Thank you sir, thanks to you and 1.2, I have had 10 of my guildies unsub! And now with the way warzones are setup 5 more have unsubbed! You my friend deserve a reward, for murdering this game! What were you thinking?

 

Wow, I might be mad about the way this patch went, but you do realize that Daniel Erickson is not personally responsible for every single decision in the game, right? Honestly, in your case, I think it's Mr. Amatangelo you may have an issue w/. : )

Edited April 18, 2012 by Varicite

[Serpieri]

You new system is a complete failure.

 

I have lost count how many times where a hutball game score ended as 5-6 where both teams played well only to be on the losing side and earning only 30 coms when breaking over 10 medals or be on the winning side and only earning around 100.

 

Players should be rewarded a fair amount of credits, coms, and xp (for those in 10-49 bracket). The credits should be returned to prior 1.2. I would suggest that the max amount one can earn around 175 wz comes and the losing team earns no less than 75 wz. Both sides should be rewarded for assisting their respective teams and their own performance. This allows a player winning or losing to be able to earn as many coms as the opposing players based on how well and how hard they fought. This would create a system where those that got carried on the winning team only earned near the bare minimum while those on the losing team that fought earned more due to their contribution. You also need to look at how overpriced you have made several items in the game from lowbie gear to end gear and consumables.

 

Many of my guildies and friends have already quit this game, and you have also lost me as a subscriber. You have until the end of the free period that I received to win me back and possibly to talk others to give you one more chance.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Serpieri

[Rasticles]

Daniel....your 'Metrics' are useless, PVP needs to be tested. Don't even bother with future PVP unless you make level 50's instantly available on the test server. One NPC, awards max XP, and a full gear bag.... done. How is this so hard?

 

I love this catch term : Metrics

 

Who in the office started that?

[Varicite]

Both sides should be reward for assisting their respective teams and their own performance. This allows a player winning or losing to be able to earn as many coms as the opposing players based on how well and how hard they fought. This would create a system where those that got carried on the winning team only earned near the bare minimum while those on the losing team that fought earned more due to their contribution.

 

You just described 1.1.5, which was a system where players served their own goals (farming medals), and nobody gave a rat's behind about winning beyond completing their daily.

 

In fact, usually when teams won, the people who were farming medals and padding their numbers were the ones being carried by the rest of their team.

 

I'm not really eager to go back to that.

 

I think that there should be a difference between winning and losing, though I think others would be much happier when the difference isn't quite so severe.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Varicite

[Xygoz]

F*ck BW and EA; this new pvp ranking is unacceptable. Edited April 18, 2012 by Xygoz

[HelinCarnate]

Hey folks,

 

Some follow up news from observations of play and feedback over the weekend. In the next couple of days we will be deploying a small patch that will address the following issues:

 

• As discussed, minimum medals to gain rewards will go from 3 to 1 to better reward those who are backfilled.
  
• Warzones will once again be shutting down when population imbalance is detected. This was an unfortunate bug where a feature of Ranked Warzones (in full team play it is not desirable to let one team end the game prematurely by quitting out) was incorrectly implemented globally.
  
• Completion of Warzones will gain a large increase in the percentage of rewards it represents, so while scoring is still the primary driver, you will cease to see games that give no rewards if players have a minimum of 1 medal earned.
  
• We are extending the time we wait for a full team of eight to better make sure Warzones pop with complete teams.

 

A huge thank you to everyone who played this weekend and provided valuable feedback and analysis.

 

Since this was posted yesterday, a couple days would be tomorrow. If not, then this is yet another example of someone saying something and having it not be true.

[Enemyone]

PVP rewards are still crap and I am quickly loosing interest in even playing pvp. At this point if my guild mates are not on there is no point in doing any pvp. Did a pug match got 6 medals 0 credits and 20 coms but i got 11000 exp what the hell do i need that for its useless. Love how they added all that LEGACY NONSENSE everything on it cost thousands of credits but cut how many credits you get from pvp. Its ignorant and have just about done the game in for me. Im not interested in your stupid dailies. pre 1.2 Myself and a friend would spend hours doing pvp wins or losses, we made OK credits but it was enough that even at the end of a match i felt Ok about it. Now if you don't MEDAL HUNT you don't really get much. Im so frustrated .............................

[Varicite]

Since this was posted yesterday, a couple days would be tomorrow. If not, then this is yet another example of someone saying something and having it not be true.

 

Or an example of someone using the word "couple" in lieu of "few", which is most likely what he meant. I know, all game designers should have absolute command of the English language.

[Samiyah]

I am not an avid pvp'er. I go in when the feeling hits me and I want a change from PVE experience. SWTOR is the first mmorpg where I have actually enjoyed the element of PVP.

 

The fact that the Dev's have decided to remove any reward from the losing team is simply ridiculous. Even the poorest of players should have something to walk away from the WZ with an incentive to do better, to develop their play-style. I am learning to PVP but with 1.2 Patch there isn't anyway for a player such as myself to develop. If I get lucky and queue on the side of a strong organized team we may win and we can reap the rewards. Most of the time such luck doesn't happen.

 

The original set-up where the losing team received less rewards than the winners was fair in my opinion. At least the losing team players could work on gear, mods and such to better themselves individually. As it stands now, only pre-mades will have the opportunity to strengthen their characters. Those of us who's lives are not conclusive to pre-mades, guilds, etc. are left out in the dust.

 

You are on a verge of killing a very interesting element of the game. I would ask for more types of WZ and all out PVP combat for bases, planets cities and the like. As Hutt Ball gets redundant very fast. Before any of that. Help the persons who PVP to continue to enjoy PVP.

[Fallensbane]

I agree in principle but Bioware is a business so they will never do this. They need that gear carrot hanging out there to keep us playing. "I may lose a lot now, but once I grind out that gear I will wreck face. Oh wait, I'm still not wrecking face, guess I need to grind out another set for mods. Almost done.... Shoot, another set just came out."

 

Also, to those of you on low pop servers complaining about matches starting 4v8: the people you need to yell at are the people on your faction! You know, the ones who are leaving queues when they pop or letting them expire and gimping your team. I'm pretty sure matches don't pop unless there are 16 queued players.

 

Um no, we don't have to yell at the people on our faction. Sure once and awhile someone is going to quit a warzone, but people are quitting in mass right now all night every night since 1.2, when that happens there is obviously an issue. If you are not having fun what is the point? You can already be miserable in real life, the difference is you don't need to pay 15 buck a month for it.

[Boonfiftytwo]

The changes are unacceptable.

I'm not just "saying" this, it will be backed up with measurable evidence as your playerbase deserts you.

This sort of change punishes casual gamers (probably 80% of your population)

Don't believe me? Watch me (and many others) leave when my subscription finishes.

 

This is exactly why casual gamers left WoW, Rift, and any other gear based MMO's out there.

The gear grind is unachievable when your gaming time is limited.

There are plenty of other good games out there that don't require me to be a farm animal for my opponent.

 

Now I'm not asking to be given gear, I'm happy to earn it.

By earn it I do not mean 9:1 loss to win ratios, getting often zero reward for my effort.

It is entirely possible to play 6 WZ's and not win a single one, and get 0 from all of them.

lets do some simple math here 6 WZ @ approx 15mins per match (assuming you aren't being facerolled)

6x15 = 90 minutes.

Now I only get 1.5 to 3 hours tops to play per night. I have a family, and a life in addition to this game which is nothing more than a hobby and for fun. So I can tell you, thats just time wasted on something completely unrewarding right there.

 

I can't begin to tell you how not fun it is to be steamrolled match after match for 1.5 to 3 hours, maybe MAYBE win 1 or 2 (which still doesn't even complete my daily).

To top it off, you know that your being farmed is just feeding your opponents who power up faster now than before.

 

You need to bring in minimum rewards for being present at the end of a match. Cap a loss to 60 comms, but put a min reward on sticking a wz out to the end (or being screwed by being forced to join a losing one) of say 25 comms. you need to reward participation. Its not worth an afk'ers time for 25 points which is what I am assuming you are trying to avoid. Unfortunately what you achieved was punishing low geared teams vs high geared teams, regardless of their afk status.

 

Even worse I played a Huttball match last night, it went for full duration, both teams very even and the game finished on 2/2. The other team won because they had possesion at full time (probably the worst game "feature" of huttball as teams will just turtle when scores are even - perhaps base the win/loss on total possesion/pass completions/intercepts etc. - rather than such a stupid determining factor)

Now this loss netted me a total of 25 comms. I had 7 medals and played my a** off, doing the best I can with the gear I have against what was a solid premade team of well geared players we actually did very very well to make 2/2. But our reward doesn't relfect this. Anyone who joined late would have got 0 reward. It just lacks any logic or insight.

 

Insight would tell you that the gear gap is going to be a gear chasm within a week.

You did something similar with valor rewards and Illum. You learned nothing from this.

 

The longer you wait before acting on this really badly thought out change to pvp, the worse the gear canyon becomes (notice how it keeps getting wider and wider and wider, even as I type?).

 

The gaming community is fickle, in that we will punish stupid mistake by going to another game.

If you want to maintain your market share, think, test, break test, and re test before you completely rework a bad system into a failed one.

 

I could go on all day, it's dissapointing because SWTOR had promise. Heck I wanted it to be great, it was ok, and now...it's just bad.

 

I like many other will vote, and show my distaste by taking my money elsewhere. The bad patch is essentially your loss, not mine.

[Rhaj]

No, this is blatantly untrue. If you are a class whose overall role is to tank you should be getting protection medals and kill medals. If you are a healer, you should be getting heal medals and kill medals. If you are a pure dps class like a marauder you should be getting kill and damage medals.

 

I understand what it's like to sit at a node and protect it the whole game. But quite honestly, if you are sitting at, let's say snow in civil war, for so long all u get is 2 defender medals and nothing else, chances are no one is attacking that base and you aren't being much help. This is when you must make a difficult decision to stay, or join the greater battle and help cap the other node.

 

Obtaining 3 medals as any class when you start in the beginning of the match is easy no matter what your class/role. Just because you do not adapt to the current game and leave an objective to go and fight doesn't mean you did what was best for the team.. if no one is hitting a node/door you are at for SO LONG YOU GET 2 MEDALS then you are making a bad judgement call in what is an effective tactic for that particular match, and have earned your zero rewards.

 

In the case of joining a match late, obviously the system is designed around being there the whole time and getting there late is an unlucky pick of the draw and you can always leave if you feel it's tat bad. But if you are there from the moment the gate first opens and only get 2 medals, you were ineffective in that match. 3 medals is barely anything.

 

You missed my point. With the mediocre rewards for the losing team and the minimum medal requirement to qualify for any rewards whatsoever, my priority in a losing match (and by losing I mean a match where our team is so outmatched we have no hope of getting close, much less winning) isn't to try to win or even help my team win. My priority is to make sure I have at least enough medals to get some form of reward. Playing to gain medals and playing to win the match are 2 very different things. The medal system needs to be better aligned with objectives for winning the match.

 

It's rare, but I've been in matches where the only way to get 3 medals was to sit at the one capture node we had, because the other team outmatched us so badly we died too quickly to get attacker or dps medals if we tried to rush the enemy controlled nodes.

[jolleebindu]

I like how Voidstar now ends early once you get past the point that the other team did. However, I have seen a (major) drop in rewards if that point is the first door and it's achieved relatively early.

 

In fact, I believe rewards have been nerfed too much, especially with the increased price of WZ adrenals / med packs. Why not (like War Hero Gear) allow Biochem professionals the ability to craft WZ adrenals / med packs?

 

i like this idea

[Werefox]

Hey folks,

To refresh everyone's memories, one of the most important aspects of the new changes is that your team's performance inside the Warzone has a direct impact on a portion of the rewards you are given at the end of the Warzone. Even if your team is losing, the closer you can make the game the better your rewards will be - so don't give up hope! Giving up and letting the other team 'win faster' is now the worst possible route you can take to rewards.

.

 

What a crock of crap. Your first mistake was buffing BM gear and then making champion and centurion gear practically worthless. I hit 50 two weeks ago and getting gear si not only painfully slow but the WZ's are now so frustrating I've begun to stop playing altogether. The gear imbalance was sped up and now the opposing factions (repubs on The Bastion) are unstoppable and the gear gap is getting a lot worse. We don't even stand a chance at making games close. Thanks to the new speed medals gaves are ending in record speed. The only thing that's going to keep this game from tanking in PvP is the intorduction of cross-realm PvP which should be done post-haste. Even if you do increase the rewards slightly, the damage has already been done and the effects of these PvP design flaws will be felt for at least a year if not longer. By then, you'll have lost at least 66% or your PvP'ers

[kirorx]

Just fix the credits back to the way it was. I log in to pvp at the same time I want to earn unlockable legacy stuff.

 

If i am going to have to kill MOBs on corellia to buy legacy stuff and buy PVP recruit gear, then the fun factor has turned into the work factor.

 

Nobody pays to work, We pay to play.

[sian_gali]

The new PVP system is flawed and creates a larger gap between players who have gear and those that do not. The pre 1.2 system for rewards was far superior it rewards participation in the event and it did not matter if you were winning or losing. Now players leave WZ's on my server the moment we start to lose just because they do not want the WZ com reduction and would rather wait in queue then spend 15 to 20 minutes in a match for such low rewards if you happen to be on the losing side.

 

I could not agree with this post more. It would be one thing if losers lost due to ability one way or another. It's all about GEAR.

 

Those with better gear win and continue to get better gear and win more. Those with little or no gear lose will lose and lose and (eventually) quit playing entirely. The gap is becoming bigger with each day. If there was even more money in the losses that would offset the comms, the losers could buy better gear.

 

I am tired of reading about how real life isn't fair and welfare nonsense. This is a game and everyone is paying to play it.

 

This first change is a step in the right direction but more needs to be done, and quickly.