Zaron Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 why is it with any other class like BH or SI i destroy with little effort. but when i play my SW Jug i almost die 60% of the time. mostly on the strong mobs with a couple weak ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arklari Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 because you have no self healing capabilities, and relatively similar damage dealing ones. If you don't have the longevity to kill something you can't tank with gank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaron Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 because you have no self healing capabilities, and relatively similar damage dealing ones. If you don't have the longevity to kill something you can't tank with gank i dont tank, im rage spec. im only lvl 18 but still this isnt right. i hope im just doing something wrong :T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastervaded Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 What stance are you in? For survivability I went Soresu form. That +60% armor bonus is pretty ridic. At 18 you dont have enough the learned skills or points to benefit from the rage tree is my guess. Around that level I found the Soresu form combined with Vette was the best way to clear mobs. Thankfully Vette is one of the higher dps companions in the game. It's no BH, but the Juggs don't really come on til later levels. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaron Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 What stance are you in? For survivability I went Soresu form. That +60% armor bonus is pretty ridic. At 18 you dont have enough the learned skills or points to benefit from the rage tree is my guess. Around that level I found the Soresu form combined with Vette was the best way to clear mobs. Thankfully Vette is one of the higher dps companions in the game. It's no BH, but the Juggs don't really come on til later levels. Hope this helps. thanks man ill see if it works! i really love the SW story, but hope i get to enjoy the mechanics of the SW class as much as the other classes bcuz frankly i hate the SI storyline lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassetblag Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Kill order is important. You want to take down the lesser mobs first. Generally a force leap > Sundering Assault > Force Scream will nearly burn down the first lesser mob, you can then switch to the second weak enemy, smash with rage (will kill the first), and start burning it down. Keep Vette's gear up to date as she hits pretty hard, and you can let her tank one mob for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 What stance are you in? For survivability I went Soresu form. That +60% armor bonus is pretty ridic. At 18 you dont have enough the learned skills or points to benefit from the rage tree is my guess. Around that level I found the Soresu form combined with Vette was the best way to clear mobs. Thankfully Vette is one of the higher dps companions in the game. It's no BH, but the Juggs don't really come on til later levels. Hope this helps. It actually only gets more difficult as you level if you don't go immortal. At level 38 as vengeance I kill pretty fast but I die even faster. I see streams of 500+ damage done to me from silvers. 2 silvers leave me with about 10% health and a dead companion after blowing saber ward. Granted I'm also not using the healing companion, but then I wouldn't kill as quick (I also wouldn't end a fight with that much higher health). It's still off compared to other classes. I feel there are many reason for this. Shear lack of a true CC (no choke is a not a true CC as you cannot focus anyone else while the target was CC'd), no self healing, no worthwhile increase in survivability from heavy armor, way too long of cooldowns for our defensive cooldowns, one of which can actually kill you if it ends and you are too low on health. We are due for a buff in an upcoming patch though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 What stance are you in? For survivability I went Soresu form. That +60% armor bonus is pretty ridic. At 18 you dont have enough the learned skills or points to benefit from the rage tree is my guess. Around that level I found the Soresu form combined with Vette was the best way to clear mobs. Thankfully Vette is one of the higher dps companions in the game. It's no BH, but the Juggs don't really come on til later levels. Hope this helps. But shouldn't the dufficulty curve be less steep at lower levels? I mean, why not buff up the pre-whatever level they start to shine, but leave the 'shiney' part alone? cause i got my SW to level 20 and i am getting my *** handed to me against 1 strong mob and when its a crowd of normal mobs, by the time they are dead, i have like 25% of my health left. It just seems that the Sith Warrior pre-25 or whatever need abit of a buff....or something, it just seems like its just a clothie in plate clothing. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XplaguesX Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 ... i think your doin somthin wrong... i have had no problems killing group after ground. Tank form, jump in, smash, scream, and just kill all the things. also, make sure you use retaliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaron Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 It actually only gets more difficult as you level if you don't go immortal. At level 38 as vengeance I kill pretty fast but I die even faster. I see streams of 500+ damage done to me from silvers. 2 silvers leave me with about 10% health and a dead companion after blowing saber ward. Granted I'm also not using the healing companion, but then I wouldn't kill as quick (I also wouldn't end a fight with that much higher health). It's still off compared to other classes. I feel there are many reason for this. Shear lack of a true CC (no choke is a not a true CC as you cannot focus anyone else while the target was CC'd), no self healing, no worthwhile increase in survivability from heavy armor, way too long of cooldowns for our defensive cooldowns, one of which can actually kill you if it ends and you are too low on health. We are due for a buff in an upcoming patch though. ya we better get a buff! not fair my favorite class storyline is also the weakest out of all classes for solo pve :T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 ... i think your doin somthin wrong... i have had no problems killing group after ground. Tank form, jump in, smash, scream, and just kill all the things. also, make sure you use retaliation. I think you aren't getting it. Just because one tree works, it does not mean the class is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaron Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 I think you aren't getting it. Just because one tree works, it does not mean the class is ok. ya the only ppl who disagree with me seem to be immortal spec. not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blur_ Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I agree, after playing a BH Juggernaut seems pretty weak. I've gotten the best results using soretsu form and Vette as a companion. Jump in, Slam, Sunder, Ravage if it's not on CD, force scream, then sunder / assault and vicious strike until everything is dead, and use Retaliation whenever it pops. Soloing not in Soretsu form was pretty painful for me; I'd die or be nearly dead after most pulls, even with stims. I'm guessing we'll get buffed at some point, hope this helps until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackerjacks Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) The biggest difference I've found is that warriors do NOT have good aoe. Pulling a big pack with death from above is much more effective than charge/smash. Don't be afraid to choke and push to interrupt everything you can. Force push is a highly underrated form of cc. Edited December 17, 2011 by Crackerjacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 The biggest difference I've found is that warriors do NOT have good aoe. Pulling a big pack with death from above is much more effective than charge/smash. Don't be afraid to choke and push to interrupt everything you can. Force push is a highly underrated form of cc. That's because it screws up positioning pushes a typically ranged mob away so you have to go to it. In general the only times I use this is to set up a charge scream combo, to throw a mob off a cliff of if there is something right there to push them into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldiem Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 ... i think your doin somthin wrong... i have had no problems killing group after ground. Tank form, jump in, smash, scream, and just kill all the things. also, make sure you use retaliation. What this guy said... After getting the dps stance and 0 rage smash I rarely even slow down between packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SciFiMike Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 My jug is crazy survivable w/ the saber defense power (can't remember name) and the 20min CD. Other than that I run Soresu with Guard on Vette. She doesn't get hit and I don't care if i do. Have a med pack or 2 just in case and make sure you have the Slam -acc trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 My jug is crazy survivable w/ the saber defense power (can't remember name) and the 20min CD. Other than that I run Soresu with Guard on Vette. She doesn't get hit and I don't care if i do. Have a med pack or 2 just in case and make sure you have the Slam -acc trait. Read the thread. It's not about immortal spec. It's about the dps specs (Rage specifically). Both are subpar. So I say again, just because 1 spec is ok, it does not mean the class overall is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bothnia Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I have been having a lot of problems in PvE, as I'm a pretty intense player and really try to push the limits of how fast I can quest/move from group to group. I have been dying very often. I think there is a balance issue at play, as I am using all my CDs, attacking in strict priority lists, using retaliations, enrage, etc. For most quests, I have been at the level of mobs or 1-2 below, as I don't think solo leveling generally keeps pace with solo quests, at least in the range of 15-20. I will try Soresu form, but I don't want to have to fight in my defensive stance just to do one man quests. That is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 (edited) I'm all for having a complex class to play, but the feel of this AC should have always been like the name indicates: a juggernaut. I would be able to wade into mobs and trade off damage for defense. The "it's because you don't have a healer/heals" argument still doesn't make up for the fact that for months, this spec and class haven't been sitting right with the players. As much as I hate to reference other games, the "porcupine" tank (slow but steady damage as passive abilities) or the "drain" tank (hp is regenerated by stealing from mobs) models were always popular and very fun to play. I don't get this.. we've been complaining for months and months. I don't want to do a hell of a lot of AoE damage, I just want to be a juggernaut..even if it takes three times as long to kill things. Edited December 18, 2011 by Traumahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaron Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 I have been having a lot of problems in PvE, as I'm a pretty intense player and really try to push the limits of how fast I can quest/move from group to group. I have been dying very often. I think there is a balance issue at play, as I am using all my CDs, attacking in strict priority lists, using retaliations, enrage, etc. For most quests, I have been at the level of mobs or 1-2 below, as I don't think solo leveling generally keeps pace with solo quests, at least in the range of 15-20. I will try Soresu form, but I don't want to have to fight in my defensive stance just to do one man quests. That is broken. pretty much agree 110% on my lvl 13 SI i accidentally pulled another pack of mobs. 2 strong, 6 standards and pulled off killing them with my companion still up. i was disappointed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myls Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I went Rage spec as well thinking it would be the preferred dps spec and i thought I was doing something wrong as well... on heavy gun mobs with assault cannons I just watch my health widdle down to the point its a dps race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bothnia Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 pretty much agree 110% on my lvl 13 SI i accidentally pulled another pack of mobs. 2 strong, 6 standards and pulled off killing them with my companion still up. i was disappointed Yeah if I'm dealing with a weak/weak/strong mob combination and pull an extra mob or two, in 9/10 cases I will be dying, even while popping defensive CD and getting into Soresu. It's a little ridiculous that we're having this much trouble taking damage, when (if anything) the Juggernaut should be able to deal with these things. I'm vengeance specced for leveling - perhaps people have had more luck with Rage? I don't see the fundamentals of the Adv Class changing enough for it to make a difference, especially at lower levels before talents sway things one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaron Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 *UPDATE* ok so i finally got the shien form talent/ability. unbelievable! i get to 1/4 health left from 1 strong 1 weak mob groups. this is ridiculous! **** this im rolling a dif class. as much as i love the SW story this AC is unplayable. most ppl in game on my server agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sehpiel Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Pretty much feel the same. The Juggernaut just feels weak compared to all of the other classes I played during beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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