A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

[SappyOneOneThree]

Actually, I've played all classes to 50 (Imperial). Not every post has to be an essay to convey one's opinion. However, I can fill in that as Huttball and Voidstar was once without timed doors, by game design implementing the timers is proof that ppl weren't dying fast enough so an artificial bandaid was needed.

 

Healing should make a difference but not make or break encounters. 1v1 vs a healing class, the healing class should not be able to outheal my dps AND have more energy than me, it just makes a very boring stalemate type combat mechanic. All WZs are designed around ppl actually dying, it's the core purpose of PvP to begin with.

 

Healing not being intuitive enough is another story and not what I'm commenting on.

 

One healer should absolutely be able to prevent himself from dying against one DPS, if that's the healers only focus. Otherwise, what's the point. Sooner or later, said healer will run out of ressource anyways, and it's game-over. Does that make for a stalemate? Perhaps. It's situational. If the healer is defending a node, he probably just wants to stall until backup arrives. If you don't want that to happen, bring help.

 

If he wants to kill you as well, in a full-blown duel, he'll have to abandon healing at some point to try and bring you down. Then it becomes a matter of skill between two players. Who uses the right abilities at the right time, positioning. Stuff like that. A healer should absolutely be able to do that against one opponent. What you're advocating is that you should be able to blow him up, just because you deal damage and he heals damage. That makes no sense.

 

By the by, killing other players isn't the goal in objective-based PvP. It's a means to the goal.

[Hapox]

lol... you forget to count Trauma... evryone does.

 

Expertis now buff...

~Dps +20-25% dmg done

~Dmg reduction +15-18% vs all dmg vs Player

~Healing done +10-13% - 30% trauma = - 17-20% healing done.

 

So prety much with more gear healer get more penalitie tx to trauma.

Bioware remove Trauma and YES AND Healing buff from expertise.

It make no sense to me. The more i heal the more i loose!

Edited April 18, 2012 by Hapox

[Wesgile]

stalemating healers 1v1 is ideal, if matches are round-based and only let you die once.

people shouldnt really expect being able to keep everyone alive the whole match on a respawn-based system, dying is inherently part of the system. making your teammates die later rather than sooner, making the other team go around chasing you to disadvantaged positions, you already helped your team in ways that probably doesnt get measured by metrics.

[QuiJonPed]

I've noticed that post 1.2, as an Operative Healer I can no longer keep one guy up almost indefinitely versus one to three enemy players (including some DPS ACs).

 

Yes this nerf was needed.

 

However I am now cranking out much more healing thanks to the AoE buff leaving me more time to pewpew. Funny old change, but I am happy to adapt.

[QuiJonPed]

 

If he wants to kill you as well, in a full-blown duel, he'll have to abandon healing at some point to try and bring you down.

 

...you mean apply dot, Shiv for TA, spam KP/SP, apply dot, Shiv for TA, spam KP/SP, debilitate (and if broken, then FB), KI, EP, Sever Tendon, kite, Shiv for TA, spam KP/SP till you win?

 

On the occasion where I get a 1v1, mostly on Voidstar after a door has blown, I tend to win it.

Edited April 18, 2012 by QuiJonPed

[Inemes]

Actually, I've played all classes to 50 (Imperial). Not every post has to be an essay to convey one's opinion. However, I can fill in that as Huttball and Voidstar was once without timed doors, by game design implementing the timers is proof that ppl weren't dying fast enough so an artificial bandaid was needed.

 

Healing should make a difference but not make or break encounters. 1v1 vs a healing class, the healing class should not be able to outheal my dps AND have more energy than me, it just makes a very boring stalemate type combat mechanic. All WZs are designed around ppl actually dying, it's the core purpose of PvP to begin with.

 

Healing not being intuitive enough is another story and not what I'm commenting on.

 

Playing all classes doesn't mean that u can judge the healers. How many warzones u have healed? I am Valor 82 and I have never speced anything else but healer and I play ONLY PvP. And yes - 1vs1 we HAVE TO outheal your DPS. We could do that pre 1.2, now the game is totally different. The numbers that people posted above are real - the expertise is buffing u so much and if u are honest u'll admit it, what we get from that stat - nothing!

Edited April 18, 2012 by Inemes

[Funick]

I play sentinel and i was of the opinion that healers could have used minor buffs pre 1.2...

 

I could kill non-mercenary healers too easily and quickly on my own, mercenary healers I could completely lock down. the problem is if 1 dps can kill a healer them self, sometimes through guard, then what is the point of a healer? The game turns into a bunch of 1v1s since no focus fire is every required to kill anyone.

 

BW choice to nerf these healers and buff dps especially for sentinel who did not need any damage buff. was a terrible mistake. I do not understand all these people who say it was out of control, I remember wrecking wzs with 5 enemy healers.

 

we can argue how devastating the changes really are but for me the problem is they seem to all be in the wrong direction.

[falcon_Xtreme]

Im retiring my healers and going dps. even after a week of 1.2 (i gave it a good go) the changes still kick you in the teeth, I use to nerd rage in pvp "GET MOAR" when I would heal tank 3 noobs and and it would take forever to bring me down or I would have an epic 1vs1 vs dps until they killed me or gave up. I got ganked alot but I also did some epic healing.,and they were the best times ive had in pvp.

 

now I cant even heal tank one skilled dps player, or keep alive one other player whos getting attacked by one person. (if im under attack myself)its insane. what is the point of healing if you cannot achieve the objective of saving someone?.... I have a lvl 50 sorc, and lvl 50 bh who were both full heal spec and neither are fun now. fighting a healer used to be a challenge as it should be. now its just a full rotation and move on.

 

Pre 1.2 as a healer my goal was to keep my team mates alive until the person they were fighting was dead.

post 1.2 its how many more seconds can I keep my team mates alive, before he dies. or how many more heals can I give him before I die. (heal tanking is pointless now)

 

its the Kobayashi Maru all over. ( couldnt think of a clever sw example so I stole the trek one )

Edited April 18, 2012 by falcon_Xtreme

[Eddar]

its the Kobayashi Maru all over. ( couldnt think of a clever sw example so I stole the trek one )

 

It's the rise of the 1st Glactic Empire all over!

[CrimsonFire]

Playing all classes doesn't mean that u can judge the healers. How many warzones u have healed? I am Valor 82 and I have never speced anything else but healer and I play ONLY PvP. And yes - 1vs1 we HAVE TO outheal your DPS. We could do that pre 1.2, now the game is totally different. The numbers that people posted above are real - the expertise is buffing u so much and if u are honest u'll admit it, what we get from that stat - nothing!

 

I didn't claim either but by that logic it goes both ways.

 

This comes down to a simple case of opinion and Occam's Razor; which is more important? If all classes would do only DPS, or only heal which would make most sense? Without DPS, we would have no game at all thus it should take prio over healing.

 

It makes no sense to have healing be stronger than damage. It's again a cornerstone of all combat mechanic design through video game history. That doesn't mean healing isn't important. It should matter and it should be a very important factor in group PvP.

[SuperOrcaSix]

This is a good thread. There are several constructive posts here regarding healers. I too am a level 50 healer and agree pre 1.2 was certainly more entertaining than post 1.2. My sole role as a healer is to keep my team alive even if it means I am targeted by 3 opposing players constantly. I play for the enjoyment of being able to further my team during a wz however, post 1.2 my life span during a wz with newly minted 50s is short thus waiting in the "penalty box" (which is another problem -- the time) allows my team to die faster.

[Inemes]

CrimsonFire we don't want the healing to be stronger then the damage, we want to be equal or at least close to it. We are reasonable people and we all know that every class has a role in this game, dps, healing and tanking are all important, but right now the damage is too stronger and we cant outheal it.

Everything matters and everything counts in PvP and in PvE - u are right on that.

[Gibbzter]

Healing should make a difference but not make or break encounters. 1v1 vs a healing class, the healing class should not be able to outheal my dps AND have more energy than me, it just makes a very boring stalemate type combat mechanic. All WZs are designed around ppl actually dying, it's the core purpose of PvP to begin with.

 

Healing not being intuitive enough is another story and not what I'm commenting on.

 

If a healer can't keep himself up in a 1v1 situation against a dps, what good is he to the team? Why play a healer if all you need is 1 dps to take him out in 4 seconds?

 

I'm sure you're a dps, but you need to look at the big picture here.

[eventidephoenix]

Thanks for the write up... didnt really wade through 50 pages of this but it was very thoughtful...

 

I cannot say for healers as to be honest I haven't tried post patch healing as my guild has too many healers... but I do know that healers are having a hard time keeping up and I really appreciate their determination to carry on despite all the odds against them...

 

That said I'm glad rated WZs are held off until some good balance can be achieved, hopefully...

[Digtahk]

Healers are just OP vs bad players. The problem is there are lots of them. As sent I can Force Leap to block the first heal, kick to block the second, Choke to block the third, Then Awe to stop the 4th. That is a bad day for any healer. People need to learn their are more then just DPS buttons on their bars.

.

 

The whole problem with this debate is you get too many exaggerated posts like the one above which are complete BS just like the claims a marauder can kill a healer in 6 seconds. I play merc healer and there is absolutely no class that can kill me in less than 20 seconds if I have all my CDs up in most cases I would expect to last a good bit longer than 30. Looking at the strategy of the person above they wouldn't kill me all game without help from someone else.

 

The point that I feel is being missed is that the majority of people who PvP queue solo most of the time, their chance of winning should not hinge on whether the gods of fate have grouped them with a healer or not. Whatever you may argue this was exactly the case pre 1.2 if you got a team with zero healers vs a team of 2 it was an almost certain loss.

[underjollyroger]

Hey guys,

 

My toon is a lvl50 BH healer too and since 1.2 I get only frustration and no fun at all playing it. Pre 1.2 I used to play a couple of WZs almost every day. Since 1.2 came out I've played exactly 8 and even though I had in mind to keep playing "to get used to the new system" I just somehow stopped. Totally lost motivation.

 

Earlier I could heal and sometimes even use some damaging skills, run around, throw a Death From Above or something - do some action PVP as a healer! Now all I can do is stay out of sight and do nothing, but spam my 3 healing buttons. Why? Because as soon as someone sees me I immediately die in a few seconds. Healing does not help me. Healing teammates being attacked by a DPS does not do anything either - they die and then I die (and we are 2 vs 1). Now I don't play anymore, because pushing 3 buttons for 15 mins and running from the penalty area to some other boring area where you cannot be seen is just no fun at all. If it wasn't for the Rakghoul event I would not even have logged in anymore.

 

To check my survivability we did some duels with a friend of mine who is a casual player (like myself) - a sorcerer DPS (not an OP class). We both have ~800 expertise. He killed me with no effort at all by standing on one place and not moving at all (only except when sometimes I hid behind obstacles to heal myself). Then he respecced with some random gear giving him <300 expertise. This time I managed with great effort to reduce his health to about 60%, but he killed me effortlessly several times again - by generally just standing on one place and not moving except to target me if necessary.

 

So..what's the point to go into warzones and be destroyed by everyone? Do I really want to do this? The number of PVP matches I've played recently answers this.

[NoTomorrow]

Any multiplayer game where the healers are powerful enough so that HPS > DPS, the healers are not capable to heal themselves for that very amount, or not even at all. This introduces a sort of tactics into game, when the healers tries to hide behind his patient, healing him, the patient tries to protect him while the DPS tries to kill the medic first. (the epitome of balance is Team Fortress 2 for example. Medics are very powerful in the game, yet their patients are not unkillable, while they themselves are vulnerable when alone, and cannot heal themselves (unable to do same healing output as for the patient))

 

SWTOR, and other MMOs are different from this concept because they allow the healer to heal themselves. This thing fundamentally imposes a huge design challenge.

 

Because healer can heal himself for the very same amount he can heal his patient (or even more because of all those skills that make him receive extra healing), he can seamlessly switch healing from itself to patient and vice versa, thus removing any sort of tactics on DPS part. I doesn't matter if you shoot the healer or its patient, they both just won't die.

 

By no logical, sane, reasoning I can accept that HPS > DPS in a game. Anyone who argues for this is a biased healer that doesn't care about game balance, it's dynamic aspect of control points passing from one team to another. Take any random sane gamer or game designer and ask him, who is intended to win a fight: a balanced team or one where half of them are healers?

 

So pls eat this bitter nerf and learn to live with it. You played a FOTM role in PvP pre-1.5, Sorcs also had been using the exploit to do some crazy healing while having virtually no resource management do care about. Now you are put back in your place where you belong.

Edited April 18, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[Ancard]

We'll it's apparent to me that most people that were complaining about heals, dps and tanks before the patch must be new to mmo's or they came from other mmo's where they didn't know how to handle the class that gave them trouble.

 

If you really thought healing was in god mode before 1.2 I challenge you to play as a dps in WOW so you can see the difference. On my pally I can heal an entire pug match while 6 dps beat on me and not die. Put me in with a group of arena players and it become much more of a challenge (sometimes I lose sometimes I win but either way it is fun).

 

In contrast swtor dps have been given a iwin button that allows them to kill an enemy player within one stun. There is no strategy involved, no challenge just die revive and repeat. This leads to very boring game play for healing classes.

 

Bio you were on to something before 1.2 but totally lost sight of it with it's release.

[kiwoo]

A

 

So pls eat this bitter nerf and learn to leave with it. You played a FOTM role in PvP, now you are put back in your place where you belong.

 

Healers are leaving....

 

Happy now?

[NoTomorrow]

Healers are leaving....

 

Happy now?

 

if you are leaving because your class went from OP to OK in PvP, than you are not a huge loss for the community. We need players that want to play balanced, fun game for everyone.

[kiwoo]

if you are leaving because your class went from OP to OK in PvP, than you are not a huge loss for the community. We need players that want to play balanced, fun game for everyone.

 

Nope, My Sage is TK specced, Known as the weakest of the sage trees for PvP, but I found it fun and challenging.

My main is Gunslinger, And my Assassin is Madness specced, also weakest build for pvp. Why weakest? Because I like to try and push the challenge.

 

Never had unlimited force or used the bug as wasn't specced into them.

 

Neither am I a BH that can hit now for upto 8k.

[NoTomorrow]

Nope, My Sage is TK specced, Known as the weakest of the sage trees for PvP, but I found it fun and challenging.

My main is Gunslinger, And my Assassin is Madness specced, also weakest build for pvp. Why weakest? Because I like to try and push the challenge.

 

Never had unlimited force or used the bug as wasn't specced into them.

 

Neither am I a BH that can hit now for upto 8k.

 

Gunslinger main? then you must definitely know the pre1.2 frustration: you see that commando over there, you DPS him.. what the hell, he is being healed, healer out of LOS. Ok. reposition myself. You try to burst down the scumbag, he switched to healing himself, you use distract for one heal, he uses the other one, you use flash bang, he escapes it (hell, if he has the shield on), he might just consider eating your mez, since after one shot he is back to healing. You shoot and shoot him and the bastard just doesn't die. Oh and forgot, he has a long range stun, which you as a gunslinger DO NOT have. All this time the patient is not threatened at all wreaking havoc all over the place. You liked that? You enjoyed this sort of healer trolling?

[Keads]

I am a rank 88 Operative. I am a very popular healer on my server (Rakata Mind Prison). My team cheers when I join their side and the enemy team instantly puts a Star (the brightest, easiest to see mark) over my head. I'm not complaining about the mark, its just the way of things.

 

I finally quit healing warzones last night. Two reasons:

 

1.) 80% of my heals have been to myself. I usually cannot even spare a GCD to put a HOT on an ally. My role has changed, I am no longer supporting my team, but tanking for my team. I absorb as much damage as I can before dying so my team doesn't have to.

 

2.) Pugs. If the expertise changes had occurred simultaneously with the release of the intended 1.2 rated games, I think I would have gotten by. Alas, even if I group with a full premade, half my team is still not playing "with" us, they retard charge around the field chasing red (this is just The Way, that won't change). With a full team of 7 allies, I think I could survive; get protection, peels, taunts, cc, kb's, etc from my teammates. However, with the minimum of 1/2 my team being pugs they ignore everything going on around them and tunnel vision one target at a time. Solo queue as a healer is completely out of the question.

 

I can't get by. Where I used to do so well in WZ's, I now try to heal from the sidelines, hoping I don't get noticed for as long as possible. My death rate has gone from 0-5 deaths in warzones, to double digits in every match. I'm not helping anybody, I run in, heal myself and survive for as long as possible before a 2nd or 3rd dps notice me and put me down.

[AdamLKvist]

I am a rank 88 Operative. I am a very popular healer on my server (Rakata Mind Prison). My team cheers when I join their side and the enemy team instantly puts a Star (the brightest, easiest to see mark) over my head. I'm not complaining about the mark, its just the way of things.

 

I finally quit healing warzones last night. Two reasons:

 

1.) 80% of my heals have been to myself. I usually cannot even spare a GCD to put a HOT on an ally. My role has changed, I am no longer supporting my team, but tanking for my team. I absorb as much damage as I can before dying so my team doesn't have to.

 

2.) Pugs. If the expertise changes had occurred simultaneously with the release of the intended 1.2 rated games, I think I would have gotten by. Alas, even if I group with a full premade, half my team is still not playing "with" us, they retard charge around the field chasing red (this is just The Way, that won't change). With a full team of 7 allies, I think I could survive; get protection, peels, taunts, cc, kb's, etc from my teammates. However, with the minimum of 1/2 my team being pugs they ignore everything going on around them and tunnel vision one target at a time. Solo queue as a healer is completely out of the question.

 

I can't get by. Where I used to do so well in WZ's, I now try to heal from the sidelines, hoping I don't get noticed for as long as possible. My death rate has gone from 0-5 deaths in warzones, to double digits in every match. I'm not helping anybody, I run in, heal myself and survive for as long as possible before a 2nd or 3rd dps notice me and put me down.

 

No clue where you're coming from with this BS after the changes to OPS. You might be suffering but if people like you are q uitting then its pretty damn obvious that all troopers and sages are too cause while you was buffed to being the new FOTM healer we were kicked down in the ground...

 

[kiwoo]

Gunslinger main? then you must definitely know the pre1.2 frustration: you see that commando over there, you DPS him.. what the hell, he is being healed, healer out of LOS. Ok. reposition myself. You try to burst down the scumbag, he switched to healing himself, you use distract for one heal, he uses the other one, you use flash bang, he escapes it (hell, if he has the shield on), he might just consider eating your mez, since after one shot he is back to healing. You shoot and shoot him and the bastard just doesn't die. Oh and forgot, he has a long range stun, which you as a gunslinger DO NOT have. All this time the patient is not threatened at all wreaking havoc all over the place. You liked that? You enjoyed this sort of healer trolling?

 

I used to coordinate with another team member to drop healers, You know, team play?

 

And even if I didnt kill, I put them out of the equation by forcing them to self heal so the rest of the team could take down the DPSers that the healer was keeping alive.

 

Sound like teamplay to you?

 

Now I can kill a DPSer being healed solo. I can kill a healer solo. Wheres the team play there?

Heals are the counter to DPS, not a small speed bump.

 

HPS of a healer should at least match the DPS of damage class. It's called balance.

 

Question for you..

 

If 1 healer + 1 DPS Can't kill 2 DPS. As the 1 DPS can match one of the opposing DPSers, yet the healing cant match the DPS of the 2nd DPSer..

 

Why shouldn't the healer, after seeing how innefective their heals are just reroll DPS to be on an equal footing?

 

Not saying healing didn't need tweaking from pre 1.2. But one has gone down whereas the othe has gone up whereas they should meet somewhere in the middle.

Edited April 18, 2012 by kiwoo