Mar/Sents

[Arox]

Answer me this please.

 

Why can mara/sent crit for over 6k

but sorcs struggle to hit 5k?

Edited April 18, 2012 by Arox

[Radsh]

I agree about Marauders/Sentinels needing a nerf. They have the best damage/burst, and the best survavibility out of every dps. It's justr nonsense, I'm feeling we are back at when smugglers were OP, you just can't stop a marauder...

[JediGerad]

Answer me this please.

 

Why can mara/sent crit for over 6k

but sorcs struggle to hit 5k?

 

Because they're supposed to. Answer me this, why can a sorc attack me with more than one ability from range and a sent can't? Because they were designed that way. If you are a sorc complaining about doing 1k less damage than a MELEE class, than I have no clue if you really understand anything about balance at all. I hope to God they don't nerf Sent/Maras (I'm not either of those classes) and that people will simply learn how to play without mashing every button they have assigned to a quickslot, or following some random rotation they read from a forum post and think it should guarantee 100% win.

[Shadenuat]

Basically yes, there are classes which are good at instant damage, and classes which are better at ticking damage. You don't need 6-7K crits to get into top of DPSers.

[PloGreen]

I dont think its a problem with specific classes as such though, the nerf to healing and the buff to damage across the board. 1.2 changes were rather drastic, no one is fully geared in war hero gear yet either. Does not feel balanced to me. It does seem like melee are doing more damage across the board, and it has become a bit of a gibfest.

 

From a personal perspective sorc/sage are not nearly as competitive anymore, they were never really overpowered accept against undergeared noobies in the case of the tkt proc hybridy spec, and they held their own well before 1.2 against well geared players, with the exception of a few classes such as the mara etc. They were able to compete before 1.2 - post 1.2 they are still are but i think the nerf went to far. Sorc/sage were easy to kill before against players who knew what they were doing, they would focus them out of the game.

They need looking at again. I cant speak for other range classes but the feel of whole game has changed now. For now many are going full balance, 10 points in tele and that is at least gives you a single root to keep a melee at bay. There will be those of you who think "haha sorc/sage tears you were op before etc" - to you i simply say you have no idea about endgame pvp. Sorc/sage needed their trees rearranging a little, some talents moving futher up respective trees possibly, I dont think they needed a nerf to healing either. The nerf to tkt I can accept, but the two other dps trees top tier talents were subpar at best anyway.

 

There are lots of people playing melee classes, hitting ridiculously hard with high survivability. People know the classes that i mean. Anyone playing the game can feel that difference, 2 them on you its game over in 2-3 seconds. As a sorc or sage you get used to being trained down. Now its much quicker in full bm gear in 1.2.

 

There will be those of you who disagree, those that say yes well adapt (and to be honest thats a fair point) but i think people are in denial if they think that this game is balanced right now. Whether it's gear - as in we all need war hero or whether some classes need toning down i dont know. Personally I'm glad rateds are not happening at the moment though, I think it needs looking further.

 

Just my point of view of course.

[mordredz]

Answer me this please.

 

Why can mara/sent crit for over 6k

but sorcs struggle to hit 5k?

 

Why can sorcs cast heals and mara's cant? OH ya thats right there a pure dps class and sorc's arent? rofl love these replies...

[PloGreen]

Im seeing this a lot ..... my sent is getting focused before anything else. Cooldowns get blown, i get CC'd for the duration of the defensive CD and then i just drop like a sack of poo .....

 

Mara's and sents are OP - WHEN you let them beat on stuff without dealing with them first, pretty standard really and to be expected - they are massive glass cannons ....

 

Maybe a slight nerf to the cooldowns of our defensive abilities could be justified, but damage is really an issue ....

 

Maras are not glass cannons.

[StyxzieWaterz]

I've been saying it since beta. Mara/Sents are fine and if they get buffed even a little the baddies are gonna start getting wrecked by and mara/sent with their keys bound.

 

Here we are.

 

That said the class is still not op. If you were good enough to kill a mara/sent 1v1 before the patch (one that was good that is) then little has changed for you. If you struggled with mara/sents before then you need to get better. Period.

 

Quit QQ and duel your best mara buddy till you can beat him.

 

BTW, something else I've been saying for a while now: mara/sents are very similar to mages and rogues in WoW. They're nearly unkillable 1v1 if they've got cds up, but catch one that has no cds and you can drop em like a fart.

[Anishor]

The increase in overall DPS from expertise return changes are the largest cause of this ( though I still think MS should be interruptible given its increase in damage )

 

Mara/Sent have the least CCs in the game. Their stun also stuns them, we have one AOE Mez. Depending on spec we can get a 50% snare in addition to leg slash or we can get a root on crippling throw.. What we lack in CC we make up for in DPS and utility. Yes we have more DPS than guardians but we don't have their CC or utility capability.

[Magnesium]

Fix their defensive skills first, getting tired of a Mara just hitting their damage reduction skill at a 50% health cost.... which is nothing when hit near the end of their health bar, the skill should be a fixed health cost and probably make it a 30% health cost overall, because I doubt the idea was for it to cost 50 health for such a powerful skill, after which they can easily hit all their health pots etc.

 

Was in a WZ yesterday where our pre-made came up against 2 premades, which had at least 4x Mara and 2x Pyro....yea the damage and kills was insane and the Maras working together could pretty much kill anyone and all of them were BM+, it took our communication and teamwork to win and the fact most of those players are FOTM players who will just jump onto the class that is most powerful at the time.

 

I think it is fair to say we will see a Mara/Sent nerf in the not so distant future, but I can imagine the biggest problem for BW is the balance between the buffs to help them in PvE vs how those translate in PvP, because the Expertise Stat breakdown is not working as it should still, because stacking Exp is still not the best option if you really break things down mod by mod and so forth, the best setup has a good mixture of both until you find similar mods from PvE in PvP but with at least some Exp on them.

[Pathlight-]

The increase in overall DPS from expertise return changes are the largest cause of this ( though I still think MS should be interruptible given its increase in damage )

 

Mara/Sent have the least CCs in the game. Their stun also stuns them, we have one AOE Mez. Depending on spec we can get a 50% snare in addition to leg slash or we can get a root on crippling throw.. What we lack in CC we make up for in DPS and utility. Yes we have more DPS than guardians but we don't have their CC or utility capability.

 

 

Quoted for truth.

[Cempa]

They are incredibly OP, Enduring Pain needs to be a 3 minute CD.

 

Also remove all healing from them its pathetic...

 

And remove Force Camo...Stealth on a melee burst class?

[mordredz]

They are incredibly OP, Enduring Pain needs to be a 3 minute CD.

 

Also remove all healing from them its pathetic...

 

And remove Force Camo...Stealth on a melee burst class?

 

k and make them fight nakid and use only simple assult? QFT seriously...

[iiell]

They are incredibly OP, Enduring Pain needs to be a 3 minute CD.

 

Also remove all healing from them its pathetic...

 

And remove Force Camo...Stealth on a melee burst class?

 

It's fine. L2P

[AmonSWTOR]

What i'd like to see:

 

Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage is just too sick, 2 min baseline CD for all speccs, not affected by any PvP set bonus.

Talented 1.5 min CD for Combat/Carnage, just to get another reason to play that spec.

 

Force Camo losing the damage reduction completely, but breaking roots/snares baseline.

 

Force Kick/Disruption 6 sec talented CD for all speccs.

 

Melee range force leap and CD reduction talented for any specc.

 

Get rid of stupid high Smash/Sweep crits with Rage/Focus, boost other skills instead.

Talented higher treshold for Dispatch/Vicious Throw instead, and/or increased talented range.

 

Annihilation/Watchmen has selfheals through dot's for better survivability.

Carnage/Combat gets shorter CD's for things like GbtF/UR and Rebuke/CoP.

Focus/Rage has lower survivability but gets a talented (like Gurad/Jugg) non channeled Force Stasis/Choke and a boost to Dispatch/Vicious Throw.

 

Tone down the overall survivability, do something about mobility against roots and snares and work on making the speccs equally good, but distinct by creating different playstyles.

[Jhayden]

lol this is a joke right?? i hope the op is a melee character, because your advantage of being ranged far outways the dps that Sent/mar are doing.

[iiell]

What i'd like to see:

 

Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage is just too sick, 2 min baseline CD for all speccs, not affected by any PvP set bonus.

Talented 1.5 min CD for Combat/Carnage, just to get another reason to play that spec.

 

Force Camo losing the damage reduction completely, but breaking roots/snares baseline.

 

Force Kick/Disruption 6 sec talented CD for all speccs.

 

Melee range force leap and CD reduction talented for any specc.

 

Get rid of stupid high Smash/Sweep crits with Rage/Focus, boost other skills instead.

Talented higher treshold for Dispatch/Vicious Throw instead, and/or increased talented range.

 

Annihilation/Watchmen has selfheals through dot's for better survivability.

Carnage/Combat gets shorter CD's for things like GbtF/UR and Rebuke/CoP.

Focus/Rage has lower survivability but gets a talented (like Gurad/Jugg) non channeled Force Stasis/Choke and a boost to Dispatch/Vicious Throw.

 

Tone down the overall survivability, do something about mobility against roots and snares and work on making the speccs equally good, but distinct by creating different playstyles.

 

TLDR version = What I want to see is the only pure melee DPS class in the game become gimp.

Edited April 18, 2012 by iiell

[Raansu]

Fix their defensive skills first, getting tired of a Mara just hitting their damage reduction skill at a 50% health cost.... which is nothing when hit near the end of their health bar, the skill should be a fixed health cost and probably make it a 30% health cost overall, because I doubt the idea was for it to cost 50 health for such a powerful skill, after which they can easily hit all their health pots etc.

 

Was in a WZ yesterday where our pre-made came up against 2 premades, which had at least 4x Mara and 2x Pyro....yea the damage and kills was insane and the Maras working together could pretty much kill anyone and all of them were BM+, it took our communication and teamwork to win and the fact most of those players are FOTM players who will just jump onto the class that is most powerful at the time.

 

I think it is fair to say we will see a Mara/Sent nerf in the not so distant future, but I can imagine the biggest problem for BW is the balance between the buffs to help them in PvE vs how those translate in PvP, because the Expertise Stat breakdown is not working as it should still, because stacking Exp is still not the best option if you really break things down mod by mod and so forth, the best setup has a good mixture of both until you find similar mods from PvE in PvP but with at least some Exp on them.

 

Your post became pointless when you said that line. A team of sentinels is so "OP" yet your team still beat them. What good is all that damage if half the team is re-spawning? A full team of sentinels never works, and I always laugh when I see them as they are easy teams to beat. Guard your healers, aoe taunt them, game over.

[gwrtheyn]

What i'd like to see:

Tone down the overall survivability, do something about mobility against roots and snares and work on making the speccs equally good, but distinct by creating different playstyles.

 

/agree

[JustinxDuff]

If you think maras/sents are OP then you clearly haven't played against a good DPS pyro/vang. 4k rail shots wut? Edited April 18, 2012 by JustinxDuff

[AmonSWTOR]

TLDR version = What I want to see is the only pure melee DPS class in the game become gimp.

 

You know i'm playing a Sent -> Signature <- right?

We are not the only pure DPS class in the game and the stuff i said would not gimp us at all.

It would tone down what people cry about right now, while bringing a lot quality of live changes.

[iiell]

You know i'm playing a Sent -> Signature <- right?

We are not the only pure DPS class in the game and the stuff i said would not gimp us at all.

It would tone down what people cry about right now, while bringing a lot quality of live changes.

 

Actually, I think it will make you even more CD dependent and people will still cry

[SturmUndSterne]

They are incredibly OP, Enduring Pain needs to be a 3 minute CD.

 

Also remove all healing from them its pathetic...

 

And remove Force Camo...Stealth on a melee burst class?

 

And while you're at it, take away their extra lightsabers. It's not fair they get two.

 

 

Seriously, what you're proposing would make this class UTTERLY USELESS in a raid. Force Camo is our ONLY threat dump. It's really, REALLY easy to pull a boss away from a tank if you're a new sent/mara and don't pace yourself properly. Force Camo is the only way out - and .. I don't know if you've noticed, but the top-geared sents have around 17-18k health in their PvE gear.

 

That's two or three attacks from a boss in hardmodes, and probably an instant wipe in nightmare (haven't done NM) due to our pithy armor and lack of damage mitigation. Unless, of course, you have *all three* defensive buffs up simultaneously.

 

Remove their healing? They already take it in the shorts for healing. Troopers get their healers on Taris. Consulars on Nar Shaddaa. Only Gunslingers have it worse, waiting till Hoth, but Smugglers get a few minor heals even if they don't spec into it. Knights, if not using the ship droid, have to wait until Balmorra to get a healing companion. I wiped more times on Coruscant and Taris with my sentinel than I have - total - with all my other characters COMBINED. And now, with medpacks being one-per-fight, they're even less survivable than they were.

 

You need to realize something. They have exactly two skills that let them break a root. One's on a 30 second cooldown, the other is a 45 second cooldown - and only breaks free of a root if you've specced Combat. Furthermore, these cooldowns don't reset when you die. If they're on you and you can't deal with the damage, stun them once, back off, wait for them to hit their break CC, and stun them again. You can then go about your business normally, while the sentinel is stuck waiting to die.

[LordbishopX]

If you think maras/sents to tons of damage then you clearly haven't played against a good DPS pyro/vang. 4k rail shots wut?

 

 

8K heatseeker missles yeah I fear maras oh wait nope they go down so easy if GBF is on cd its not funny and if its up just stun/kite 6 sec send them to graveyard and repeat.

[Jmerrill]

Does Bioware even acknoledge there is a Major issue with balance? are they aware, are they even trying. BIOWARE wake UP, it doesnt take two weeks to fix balance issue that your players are outlineing and doing all the work for you. Jesus christ