Mar/Sents

[BDutch]

When you buff damage by a percentage across the board, the highest damage gets the highest buff.

When TTK is lowered, it's basically the same thing as increasing the duration of a skill that gives you invulnerability.

 

Maras/sents were in a good place to benefit from 1.2 without any class specific changes, and they were already uber.

Edited April 17, 2012 by BDutch

[Visue]

Remove charge and "im invincible now but can still *** your face" and they are balanced

 

Remove the interrupt portion of charge and the second ability this lady/gentleman mentions and it would be the first step in the right direction.

[RenegadeSLX]

So I am full BM and yesterday with the release of 1.2 I get 1 shot now with master strike/ravage abilities.

 

No you dont

[Visue]

No you dont

 

It may not one-shot a player in the duration, but it can easily take out half or more of a geared player's health bar.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Another post acknowledging that sentinels/marauders are stronger than other classes in 1 vs. 1...

 

and claiming that that's okay.

 

Newsflash:

The Devs have admitted that, and they have also said that it is working as intended.

[ProfessorWalsh]

It may not one-shot a player in the duration, but it can easily take out half or more of a geared player's health bar.

 

No it can't.

 

Half of a geared player's health is around 8,000 damage. No Sentinel ability can do that in "one hit" even on a crit the highest ability can only get to 5,000.

 

Now, if you want to be honest you can say:

 

"A Sentinel or Marauder can drop a geared player by half of their health within 4 to 5 seconds."

 

And that is honest, because yes we absolutely can do that.

[JediGerad]

In the duel that mentioned a few pages back, I pointed out that I took almost 10k from a Master Strike. I was in full Rakata at the time, and the Sentinel was also in his PvE gear. But I also don't consider Master Strike to be one hit.... Since it's THREE.

 

But like I said, if you are going to put yourself into a position where you are stuck sitting there letting it happen to yourself, well there's only one person to blame for that and it isn't Bioware....

[Visue]

In the duel that mentioned a few pages back, I pointed out that I took almost 10k from a Master Strike. I was in full Rakata at the time, and the Sentinel was also in his PvE gear. But I also don't consider Master Strike to be one hit.... Since it's THREE.

 

But like I said, if you are going to put yourself into a position where you are stuck sitting there letting it happen to yourself, well there's only one person to blame for that and it isn't Bioware....

 

Has anyone else noticed that Master Strike/Ravage keeps casting after the opponent moves just out of melee range?

[Visue]

Newsflash:

The Devs have admitted that, and they have also said that it is working as intended.

 

Could you please link to this?

[Thundartwothree]

Has anyone else noticed that Master Strike/Ravage keeps casting after the opponent moves just out of melee range?

 

I have already addressed this for you, but will again.

 

Master Strike will continue to cast if the target moves out of range, this is true. But however if the target is out of range, the damage from Master Strike will not register, the ability will still channel, pretty much causing it to be a self root to the Sent or Mara.

 

Now. I've read quite a few of these posts, and there is some missinformation flying about. Force Leap cancels a cast on the target that is casting, it is not a complete interupt as it were, more akin to half an interupt as the caster can cast the same ability right after, instead of a full interupt which locks out that spell for 4? seconds.

 

Master Strike can only root someone if the Sent is Combat spec, the root is not available to all Sent/Mara's.

 

Sents/mara's do have a counter class, there is not a ton of them it seems, but Snipers do counter Sent/Mara fairly well(If played well).

 

As to 1v1 balance. It will never happen in an MMO, ever. Please get it out of your heads, its not going to happen as long as classes want to remain unique in anyway shape or form. There are far to many variables to achieve 1v1 balance. Could TOR PvP be closer? Yes it could, not a question. Is it as far off as some would make it out to be? No, no its not.

 

I've pointed out the many differences between pre-1.2 and our current state of affairs earlier in the thread, and while some ACs different buffs and nerfs have added to the problems we are now seeing, they are far from the forefront of the real issues regarding the damage going out in PvP.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Thundartwothree

[Boonfiftytwo]

Indeed. Completely uninterruptable instant win god move....

 

Unless you have a stun

Or a knockback

Or a mez

Or a teammate with a pull, mez, knockback, stun

Or a vanish

Or a sprint (removes all roots/snares)

 

But yeah, other than that it's completely unavoidable, uninterruptable and invincible instant win button.

 

No, I don't have a mara, no I don't want one.

 

I didn't say there weren't ways out of it - all of the ones you listed are viable (except knockback)

I am not even combat tree spec, I prefer watchman, it allows me to stand and deliver much longer and the centering buffs are invaluable.

 

Sent is one of the harder classes to play, anyone who hasn't tried it needs to pull their head in. It is one of the most active classes (ie you cant just herpa derpa - you need to utilise a good portion of your abilities and in a good rotation to be effective) I cant just stand there and masterstrike after masterstrike like the herpderps can do with tracer missiles.

 

As you suggested, its not an instant "i win" button, it was a much needed damage boost. If they happen to catch you when you have no CD's left...then too bad for you. Otherwise there are plenty of ways to avoid taking the full strike.

[Superawesomerman]

Physical DoTs cannot be dispelled without a deep healing-tree talent.

 

for sages, yeah. Scoundrels and commandos can dispel it all day long regardless of spec.

[Assaultrooper]

I didn't say there weren't ways out of it - all of the ones you listed are viable (except knockback)

I am not even combat tree spec, I prefer watchman, it allows me to stand and deliver much longer and the centering buffs are invaluable.

 

Sent is one of the harder classes to play, anyone who hasn't tried it needs to pull their head in. It is one of the most active classes (ie you cant just herpa derpa - you need to utilise a good portion of your abilities and in a good rotation to be effective) I cant just stand there and masterstrike after masterstrike like the herpderps can do with tracer missiles.

 

As you suggested, its not an instant "i win" button, it was a much needed damage boost. If they happen to catch you when you have no CD's left...then too bad for you. Otherwise there are plenty of ways to avoid taking the full strike.

 

I got a marauder ranked 87 and I can say maras are not hard to play (maybe hard to clickers) they have simply more options more abilities than ANYONE else. The arguement that "they need to use all their cds to be effective" is invalid ecery class has to use all of their abilties to be effective. I would even go as far as to say that because of the amount of survivability marasd have (with one of the highest dps) they are actually one of the easiest classes to play.

 

That said I really don't get the logic of making ravage uninterruptable.... No other class literally forces someone to waste their stun like this now... Its a buff we didn't need.

[fungihoujo]

If you stand there long enough for a full ravage/MS to go off you've got what's coming to you. And I don't even play a Sent/Mara.

 

Good marauders know how to keep you rooted through it, or how to exploit invisibility to get the first two shots off before you can see them.

[Ink-Blot]

I just had this happen to me. I don't know what you are playing, but they are so OP now. My lvl 50 Sniper can't drop a player as fast as Marauder/Sentinel now. I got merced in 4 secs at 16k HP. Saber throw/stun, force charge/plant, and then some other attack. I was playing with my Pyro merc. I have 600 expertise, not great but not bad either. There is no class out there that should be able to do that kind of damage. NONE My sniper included. How can a marauder hit for 5k+ with their attacks when they are mostly instant, but my Sniper takes 2-3 secs to do the same amount of damage??? Really.. That seems fair to you?

 

No it can't.

 

Half of a geared player's health is around 8,000 damage. No Sentinel ability can do that in "one hit" even on a crit the highest ability can only get to 5,000.

 

Now, if you want to be honest you can say:

 

"A Sentinel or Marauder can drop a geared player by half of their health within 4 to 5 seconds."

 

And that is honest, because yes we absolutely can do that.

[Superawesomerman]

I got a marauder ranked 87 and I can say maras are not hard to play (maybe hard to clickers) they have simply more options more abilities than ANYONE else. The arguement that "they need to use all their cds to be effective" is invalid ecery class has to use all of their abilties to be effective. I would even go as far as to say that because of the amount of survivability marasd have (with one of the highest dps) they are actually one of the easiest classes to play.

 

That said I really don't get the logic of making ravage uninterruptable.... No other class literally forces someone to waste their stun like this now... Its a buff we didn't need.

 

They are hard to play if you cant set your keyboard up well. a razor naga helps a lot.

 

And yeah, ravage should be interruptable.

[fungihoujo]

Time to start leaving a match if you don't have some marauders on your team with good gear.

[Thundartwothree]

I just had this happen to me. I don't know what you are playing, but they are so OP now. My lvl 50 Sniper can't drop a player as fast as Marauder/Sentinel now. I got merced in 4 secs at 16k HP. Saber throw/stun, force charge/plant, and then some other attack. I was playing with my Pyro merc. I have 600 expertise, not great but not bad either. There is no class out there that should be able to do that kind of damage. NONE My sniper included. How can a marauder hit for 5k+ with their attacks when they are mostly instant, but my Sniper takes 2-3 secs to do the same amount of damage??? Really.. That seems fair to you?

 

The reason you got hit that hard, is because you only have 600 expertise, thats not enough, the blue starter gear has more than that. Battlemaster gear has 1200 give or take 20 Expertise. On a Battlemaster geared player Ravage/Master Strike crits a total of 7k max with stims and so on, with a 3 second channeled ability. Is that alot? Yes, is it too much? Maybe. Would a tweak to Expertise values change that? you bet.

[Ink-Blot]

Yeah Snipers can take some one down in 3-5 globals but look at the casting times for those attacks. I have a lvl 50 Sniper and I can't kill someone as fast as mar/sent can now. I PVP with my Sniper and my Pyro/merc. Before 1.2 I could hold my own against just about anyone 1 v1 cause I can play my class. I use my shield for 20% reduction in damage, use Kolto Infusion 16% hp return over 8 secs, biochem so use Rakata medpac, and use what Stuns I can since we don't get an interrupt. I know how to play my class, but a Mar/Sent can just about 4 shot me now, and I'm gear good. Expertise at 600, but that don't mean anything when their saber throw stuns now, then they force charge and plant you, then they can hit you with anything else and your dead if the have ravage on. Better still if I catch one that doesn't have Ravage/Masterstrike up and I start in on them, they just perc their def stuff and Kill me before I can kill them. Forget running cause as I stated before, force charge plants you. Where you going to go? Point is that before 1.2 I could hold my own and usually beat almost anyone 1 v 1 by using all my stuff, and now I can't last 10 secs against a mar/sent even with using all my abilities.

 

Nobody likes being dead in a few globals, I agree. But if that's your whine, you should look at dps sins, snipers, ops, pt, and maras. They can all destroy someone that is lesser geared in 3 globals, and most do it better than a marauder.

 

If you are being destroyed by the 99% reduction, Grats. You facetanked a dps class instead of waiting out the 4 seconds until you could 1 shot him.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Ink-Blot

[LiveandDieinLA]

600 expertise is not enough now. That's like saying "I have 200 expertise" pre patch. Of course you are getting destroyed.

[Superawesomerman]

Im getting destroyed with 16k hp

 

- how much expertise?

 

600.

 

- thats a bit low, no wonder you're getting faceplanted

 

I do fine.

 

-.........

 

 

In summary, get more expertise.

[Shadenuat]

It's double deal, really. They probably are strong, but now every mar/sent me and my fellow Sages see get ganked in a matter of seconds. Today we had two Balance sages and some healers or telekenetics hybrids, and other side had some decent "knights". It did't really help, whenever mar/sent showed up, he was rooted with Sever Force and then turned into a mountain of pebbles four-five seconds afterwards. Before patch, being a healer meant you had constant mark on your head, and a big "KILL ME PLEASE" sign on your back. Now knights seem to enjoy the same.

[ztee]

It's double deal, really. They probably are strong, but now every mar/sent me and my fellow Sages see get ganked in a matter of seconds. Today we had two Balance sages and some healers or telekenetics hybrids, and other side had some decent "knights". It did't really help, whenever mar/sent showed up, he was rooted with Sever Force and then turned into a mountain of pebbles four-five seconds afterwards. Before patch, being a healer meant you had constant mark on your head, and a big "KILL ME PLEASE" sign on your back. Now knights seem to enjoy the same.

 

Im seeing this a lot ..... my sent is getting focused before anything else. Cooldowns get blown, i get CC'd for the duration of the defensive CD and then i just drop like a sack of poo .....

 

Mara's and sents are OP - WHEN you let them beat on stuff without dealing with them first, pretty standard really and to be expected - they are massive glass cannons ....

 

Maybe a slight nerf to the cooldowns of our defensive abilities could be justified, but damage is really an issue ....

[mordredz]

Time to start leaving a match if you don't have some marauders on your team with good gear.

 

Ignorant remarks like this always give me a chuckle....

 

So very wrong on many levels...

[aesirize]

deleted Edited April 18, 2012 by aesirize