Assassin Tank looking for help

[Redsocks]

Hello all. I just hit 50 a few days ago and am starting to tank most hm fp's. The issue is that I get mobs ripped off of me frequently. My gear isnt bad. I have half lvl 50 epics and the rest is orange gear with mostly epic 50 mods in them. The only thing I can think I can do is get better gear, ie more willpower, or invest in more force power. I am using the standard 31/0/10 spec.

 

 

My stats are:

Dmg Reduction: 38.8%

Defense: 25.58%

Shield Chance(with Dark Ward): 55.13%

Absorption: 34.41%

Crit: 18.5%

Endurance: 1695

Willpower: 1076

Power: 62

Accuracy: 54 (91.93% melee, 101.93% force)

[novakheng]

Gearing wise, what you are looking for is Defense and Absorb rating.

 

~400 Defense and ~250 Absorb is what you should be aiming for. If you are somewhat around that ballpark, move on to Shield and Absorb rating. Willpower and Endurance will come naturally from gear but you have to pay attention to your defensive stats.

[YeknomStun]

..... Edited April 25, 2012 by YeknomStun

[NandorV]

Gearing wise, what you are looking for is Defense and Absorb rating.

 

~400 Defense and ~250 Absorb is what you should be aiming for. If you are somewhat around that ballpark, move on to Shield and Absorb rating. Willpower and Endurance will come naturally from gear but you have to pay attention to your defensive stats.

 

How exactly do you come up with 400 def and 250 absorb? I keep looking at my character and only see percentages. Im wondering if Im looking at the wrong window. Any tips are appreciated it.

[ShannaRZ]

How exactly do you come up with 400 def and 250 absorb? I keep looking at my character and only see percentages. Im wondering if Im looking at the wrong window. Any tips are appreciated it.

 

When you hover over the percentages, it will reveal the underlying numbers (400 defense gives X.X% of the total), etc.

[foulron]

shield is capped at 50% so you can lose a bit there.

the thing to aim for is absorption.

it helps to get melee accuracy as close to 100% as you can. more hits means more agro.

 

but all in all. Just go with the flow get your epic augments and enchants from dailys

and go HM FP. youll get the gear with the right stats.

Edited April 13, 2012 by foulron

[KivanSane]

Hello all. I just hit 50 a few days ago and am starting to tank most hm fp's. The issue is that I get mobs ripped off of me frequently. My gear isnt bad. I have half lvl 50 epics and the rest is orange gear with mostly epic 50 mods in them. The only thing I can think I can do is get better gear, ie more willpower, or invest in more force power. I am using the standard 31/0/10 spec.

 

 

My stats are:

Dmg Reduction: 38.8%

Defense: 25.58%

Shield Chance(with Dark Ward): 55.13%

Absorption: 34.41%

Crit: 18.5%

Endurance: 1695

Willpower: 1076

Power: 62

Accuracy: 54 (91.93% melee, 101.93% force)

 

"mobs ripped off me"

 

what are you doing fighting more than one mob ? lol.

 

Don't forget your area effect ability (where you jump up in the air and then lightning explodes damagning those around you ) that aggros everything around you. Other than that , you may want to put a more active ability in the first slot of the first hot bar (that spot is the one that goes off when you right click) and then just click on one member of the mob , then the next , then the next , spreading out the aggro equilly while the dps worries about bringing them down.

[DonMarko]

I have yet to play in a HM, but I just go for stats in this order. Keep in mind I also like to PVP a lot.

 

 

Absorption

Deff

(shield chance)

End

Strg

Power

 

Then if I can pick up some expertise via pvp gear I do make two sets, one for pvp and one for pve.

 

I was going DEFF over Absor,, but it was a lot weaker, for me anyway.

 

Hope it helps

Edited April 13, 2012 by DonMarko

[Malusz]

It may not be related to gear. Prioritizing your abilities is also important. Check out if you are using Wither and Discharge the moment their CD goes off. Same for Shock if you buffed it to the teeth (which should be the case).

Your survival CDs don't generate threat. So if losing mobs is actually an issue you're going to need to prioritize aggro generation above survivability.

Remember to pop your shield on the melee guy and not on the healer, who, most of the time, is out of the beneficial range anyway.

 

Weak and silver mobs are rarely ever an issue if you lose them. If they're going for a ranged, chances are they'll drop dead before they reach them.

If they go for the healer then Force Pull or Taunt them to buy time.

 

Assume DPS know what they're doing. Chances are they do if they are attacking weak mobs first and dispose of them fast.

[Horacio]

Tanking as an assassin is different than other tank classes I played in other games. Threat mechanics are a little different but its not too bad. You just have to be active, as was mentioned, AoE on every CD, Shock as much as possible and use taunts frequently. The guy who I tank with in Ops was also my partner tanking in...well, that OTHER game and we know our stuff. We have to be active, no hopping around, facerolling a few skills and then eating a smaiich while DPS takes the mobs down be they trash or bosses.

[Redsocks]

use your taunts frequently, and dont worry so much about the weak mobs, your dps should be killing them first.

 

Taunts are useful threat builders even when you still have aggro.

 

o ok see I played WoW for 6 years so I m use to taunt only placing you at the top of the threat meter and not a threat building move.

 

 

 

Don't forget your area effect ability (where you jump up in the air and then lightning explodes damagning those around you ) that aggros everything around you.

 

the lightning thing is a knock back though so the would spread them out too much so my other aoe abilities cant hit them all, that is unless all the mobs are melee and will run back.

 

 

It may not be related to gear. Prioritizing your abilities is also important. Check out if you are using Wither and Discharge the moment their CD goes off. Same for Shock if you buffed it to the teeth (which should be the case).

Your survival CDs don't generate threat.

 

yea I use shock, discharge, recklessness and wither on cd and spam thrash when they are on cd to get the 100% crit shock proc. I only use force lightning on the 3 stacks of darkness for the heal. I also have a power use relic to help with aggro at the start.

 

 

 

 

my big question for all u assassin tanks is: do you go for force power at all and with the new daily relics, would one of the "30% on melee attack to do XX extra dmg"?

[wtfnonamefree]

 

yea I use shock, discharge, recklessness and wither on cd and spam thrash when they are on cd to get the 100% crit shock proc. I only use force lightning on the 3 stacks of darkness for the heal. I also have a power use relic to help with aggro at the start.

 

You should replace thrash with saber strike to improve your force management. The gain in flow of rotation trumps the enrgize buff. Other than that it's probably just strange for you compared to WoW - aggro is hard in swtor, there is no 500% threat modifier and you simply won't keep the whole pull on you.

 

The tank should try to hold the mobs prioritizing gold>silver, ignoring the standards and the dps should prioritize the other way round, i.e. standard>silver>gold, while ccing and focussing the silvers.

 

When everyone's geared, you can go back to AoEing the whole pull again

 

edit: I wouldn't recommend taunting already aggroed mobs. On bosses aggro isn't an issue, really - only a lucky crit streak (severe gear disparison aside) should lead to dps aggro and that is when you'll want to have your taunts ready (in addition to the times you'll need them due to fight mechanics).

 

On trash pulls, you'll need your taunts all the time (and it's due to coordination, gear and ofc focus fire to change it for the better) and wasting them on already aggroed mobs is working against you.

 

edit:

my big question for all u assassin tanks is: do you go for force power at all and with the new daily relics, would one of the "30% on melee attack to do XX extra dmg"?

 

Well, force power is nice to have, but it's not as if I faced any decisions there, really. As Tankasin your best choice is the survivor set. Optimization can be done by shifting the values of def, shield and absorb around (see astralfire's guide in this forum or the tanking sticky for more information) or going for resolve instead of force wielder mods. I personally manage fine with end>willpower, though.

 

Aggro will be an issue, whether you stack offensive stats or not. But if you neglect defensive stats, your survival might become an issue as well.

 

Concerning the proc relic - sure, why not? If there is a defensive proc relic, it might be better for operations, though (same reasons as above). Generally, you'll want one proc and one on use relic.

Edited April 14, 2012 by wtfnonamefree

[Redsocks]

Thanks Wtfnonamefree. That was very helpful. I think some of my issues were differences in gear between me and my dps-ers. Since my original post, I have gotten some more HM gear and daily gear and the aggro issues are becoming less and less.

[dragonfor]

I have yet to play in a HM, but I just go for stats in this order. Keep in mind I also like to PVP a lot.

 

 

Absorption

Deff

(shield chance)

End

Strg

Power

 

Then if I can pick up some expertise via pvp gear I do make two sets, one for pvp and one for pve.

 

I was going DEFF over Absor,, but it was a lot weaker, for me anyway.

 

Hope it helps

 

Uh, strength?

[novakheng]

From what I've read, Accuracy is not needed. Most of our attacks are force and won't miss. If you have survivability issues, you could invest in Adrenals, Medpacks and Endurance stims. And of course, doing Flashpoints will gear you up for harder content, especially since Flashpoints do not have lockouts anymore.

[nToxiK]

Uh, strength?

 

Strength is still useful to an assassin so make sure to get the strength datacrons too.

[Rhen-Ghar]

Strength is still useful to an assassin so make sure to get the strength datacrons too.

 

 

only when you're talking Datacrons, if you're stacking strength on your gear you're doing it wrong:cool:

[Lonestrum]

o ok see I played WoW for 6 years so I m use to taunt only placing you at the top of the threat meter and not a threat building move.

 

 

 

 

 

the lightning thing is a knock back though so the would spread them out too much so my other aoe abilities cant hit them all, that is unless all the mobs are melee and will run back.

 

 

 

 

yea I use shock, discharge, recklessness and wither on cd and spam thrash when they are on cd to get the 100% crit shock proc. I only use force lightning on the 3 stacks of darkness for the heal. I also have a power use relic to help with aggro at the start.

 

I use all defensive stats. and force power you cant acutally "GO FOR" its only on weapons and Offhands. I basically do Discharge SHock the main target then wither Force pull somone that is far away. then Lacerate if more then 4 targets. and keep doing shock>wither>discharge and using Force lighting every time i get 3 harnessdarkness.

 

 

 

 

my big question for all u assassin tanks is: do you go for force power at all and with the new daily relics, would one of the "30% on melee attack to do XX extra dmg"?

 

even in wow taunt was a threat building move. because people dont pull agro at 100% threat. Melee pulls agro at 120% and range 130% so if someone is say 110% of your threat and you use taunt you are now a head of them in threat even though they havent pulled agro yet. Alot of boss mechaincs work this way. Say a skill drops on dps and heals only, doesnt hit the top threat of the boss. well just cause you have agro doesnt mean you are top threat so the skill could hit the tank because some one has more threat just hasnt reached the pull threshold

 

the way threat works in this game every Damage skill gens 1:1 threat. so if it does 100 damge it gens 100 threat. now tanks get 1.5 threat from tank stance wither gets .5 on top of that so with does 100 damage it does 200 threat. Also things that do damage and heal gen threat twice. So like force lighting we gen damage threat and healing threat from one skill when used with 3 harnessed darkness. Tanking is about 80% tank and 20% dps. Dps have agro dumps they should be using specially after they unload at the start of a fight. They shouldnt wait till they acutally pull agro to use it. DPS should be going Weaks/normals<strongs<elites<champions. If they do this you should have all the time in the world to group up all the strongs and elites and champs in the group and have threat on them. 1 key note you will have to AoE taunt after Orbital strike and Death from above thats just almost a fact of life. Get use to that hehe.

 

 

In my tank gear on my assassin i am at.

 

24603hp

6917 armor rating

43% damage reduction

24% defense

40% shield chance with out darkward 60% shield with darkward

and 55.5% absorption.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Lonestrum

[Redsocks]

even in wow taunt was a threat building move. because people dont pull agro at 100% threat. Melee pulls agro at 120% and range 130% so if someone is say 110% of your threat and you use taunt you are now a head of them in threat even though they havent pulled agro yet.

 

Right I get what you saying, but when I say "threat building", I meant I am 100% aggro with no one above me and it increases the difference in aggro between me and the 2nd on threat. Ex.: I am at 100 threat, I use taunt now I am 105 threat.

 

 

You guys have been super helpful, but I have one final question. With the release of 1.2, is there any way to show threat (like the Omen addon in WoW)? In-game settings or addon?

Edited April 17, 2012 by Redsocks

[Maestrodomus]

Not yet, but you can watch a real time parser like MoX and if you see someone starting to get carried away you can starting taunting or be more focused with building your harnessed darkness stacks.

[Redsocks]

Not yet, but you can watch a real time parser like MoX and if you see someone starting to get carried away you can starting taunting or be more focused with building your harnessed darkness stacks.

 

o god i ll just let them pull aggro instead of my eyes bleeding during a fight lol

[Expax]

Taunt is scalable and adds multiplicative threat to you every time you use it. So its basically the highest threat x 1.3 = new threat gained. It scales exponentially where everything else is additive.

[Havocx]

A good tank starts prioritizing damage and debuffs over threat once they can just (ab)use how taunts work in this game to keep ahead.

[HDShock]

A few silly tricks I've learned that help Sin tanking. Hopefully this helps:

 

- Whenever possible (and viable), use force pull as a starter (but not at max range) even on boss fights where they don't move. It's free threat that you can't use often on the same mob. Also use it creatively on those tough elites.. Ex: knock one back and while they are in mid air backup slightly and very quickly pull them back. Again, free threat. Also as a "this coffee is hot don't spill it on your lap" disclaimer try to not pull something in then aoe it while it's buddies are out of range.. Not good times...

 

- Save your single taunt for a little bit into the fight and using it quasi-often on things like raid bosses that don't dump aggro. Understanding that people get aggro on different % helps.. Like dps getting aggro at 125%, healers at 110% or whatever the actual numbers are in this game.. A taunt to my understanding brings you to the top but only "just so".. having a mob forced to attack you right off the bat is cool and all, but it'll do nothing for you once the dps starts to unload. Also on big boss fights you may be losing ground but you may not know it right away due to the massive hp %.. Bottom line, taunts occasionally = good.

 

- No brainer stuff: Like other people mentioned here before, use your aoes on every cooldown, keep your def buff up (but not a priority before aggro), and if you are having energy issues with getting things off instantly use more free attacks in your rotations.

 

- Throw your bubble on someone you can stay close to without killing. I usually guard top dps since it just helps.. But make sure regardless you're in range of them to take their aggro without putting them in danger of aoes or swipes. So if you have to guard a melee guy instead, go for it. Again, no brainer.

 

- This one is more preference but i like to renew my ward and pop some kind of trinket/shield right before i mass taunt. It helps the healer not crap themselves and lets you unload aoes before dps starts to settle and you can better manage the aggro. Ex - HM BT, the first boss for instance.. That will give you the best idea of what i mean..

 

- Don't ever forget you have an interrupt and 2 stuns that work on the majority of mobs. USE THEM. Especially if you lose aggro and your taunt is on cooldown. Stopping damage from going to other players is your job... Making the healer fall asleep from boredom is also your job... Do those 2 things and you are golden in my book.

 

Anyways, time to get off the soap box i guess. I hope the above helps.

Edited April 22, 2012 by HDShock