Sage dps in pvp after patch 1.2

[Sinladin]

Hello!

 

I went through a lot of different talent speccs and believe I have found the one I want to use in pvp to begin with.

Since the patch made my hybrid build with 0-25-16 useless, I decided to go 0-10-31 in my talent tree.

 

I do not know if this is the ultimate pvp specc at the moment, but it works for me. So if you are having trouble adapting to the changes, take a look at my new video and let me know if this is something we can keep as our pvp build for the upcoming ranked warzones.

 

Watch the new video with talent tree and gameplay

Watch the video before patch 1.2

 

Take a look at the talent tree here.

 

Any feedback on the video, or thoughts on how to utilize the new skill tree better are much appriciated.

 

 

*''!!'**!!***!!*** Edited 18th of April

 

I have made two more videos showing the (0-20-21) pure pvp specc and a more pve specc (but still viable in pvp 0-13-28)

 

 

Be sure to check them out, and let me know what you think about especially the pve/pvp specc, as I want to be able to be useful in pve before dual specc comes out.. And it gets rather expensive respeccing every day...

Enjoy

Edited April 18, 2012 by Sinladin

[Lijun]

Thanks for posting your spec and thoughts. I leveled and made it to battlemaster as a healer but I think this is a good time to try out DPS for PvP.

 

I always liked Affliction Lock in WoW too so dots are a lot of fun to me.

[Dosvidaniya]

Hello!

 

I went through a lot of different talent speccs and believe I have found the one I want to use in pvp to begin with.

Since the patch made my hybrid build with 0-25-16 useless, I decided to go 0-10-31 in my talent tree.

 

I do not know if this is the ultimate pvp specc at the moment, but it works for me. So if you are having trouble adapting to the changes, take a look at my new video and let me know if this is something we can keep as our pvp build for the upcoming ranked warzones.

 

Watch the new video with talent tree and gameplay

Watch the video before patch 1.2

 

Take a look at the talent tree here.

 

Any feedback on the video, or thoughts on how to utilize the new skill tree better are much appriciated.

 

You think dotting everyone in sight is viable as a ranked player? I noticed that you didn't actually get hit (except for one stun), in your clip. Please, post a video where you defend your turret 1v1 against someone that has BM gear. Post one where you kill finish off a healer without help.

 

Honestly, you can dot people and bring up your overall stats, but you aren't really helping your team. It's far better to deal 10k damage and finish off a player (thereby stopping there damage) than it is to do 3k damage to 4 players around you. At that point, you have 4 players that are still wrecking your team and they've picked one of your team off to make it 3v4. They go in for the kill.

 

While your build works, it's far from viable. Sadly, it's the best thing we have. However, people need to actually get BW to balance this class. The notion that our hardest hit is for 3.5k and people in heavy armor are breaking 7k makes me baffled. You need to complain more, not less.

[Aehgo]

It bugs me when people just spam dots.You aren't helping your team in anyway and are just trying to make it look like you are awesome at dpsing.

I've been trying this specc out and I've found my dps is hitting the same numbers I ussually hit with the hybrid,it may look wierd but try it,it is very good for 1v1s and support dps'ing.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600G0bZbczZfRbRsMkrc.1

I'm suprised not many people used the 10% AoE dmg increase in the seer tree as much,as you end up getting wicked crits with force inbalance.

[Sinladin]

Very good, I will look into thoose suggestions. Especially the 10% aoe skill.

 

But I disagree with some of the comments.. I have found it to be of great support to the group when using dots on several enemy players. At the moment I am doing warzones with a premade of 4 players from my guild (this cant of course be compared to a ranked wz with ops premade), but when we call out the enemy player we want dead I change the dotting and nuke down with all my instant cast spells. At the same time as my dots keep the healer busy with everyone else.

 

I am not trying to make it look like I am an awesome dps but the footage I used for the video was meant to show rotation and diversity. I want to hear everyones opinion and eventually come up with the beast specc and rotation for ranked pvp wz.

 

The way I see the sage at the moment is not as a 1v1 player, but as a support to the group. And so far it has been giving me rather good results.

 

So really cant wait for ranked battlegrounds to make videos of how it works out for me

 

Thx for the response

[Foster_shadow]

The way I see the sage at the moment is not as a 1v1 player, but as a support to the group.

What support do you think? What is his asset to the group?

[Sinladin]

What support do you think? What is his asset to the group?

That depends completely on how you choose to control your sage. Right now im a flying duck running around throwing whatever I can of abilities before I have to start running again.

 

There are plenty of different ways to be a support to the group as a jedi sage. (imo)

But most people see the word support as if you have to constantly do massive dmg, or else you are useless.There are enough of these players in the warzones allready.

 

What I do is run around stunning, silencing, dotting, interrupting, and basicly use every annoying ability I can to piss off the healers and tanks. This works best when you have coordinated players with you who nuke down the enemy dps, and who can keep your squishy *** up with heals..

 

I am interrested in hearing what other sages do to be a support/asset to the group now after the patch. And if someone have a gameplay video to show I would be more than happy to check i out.

[Kilvorian]

Sages are not a strong 1v1 class. Never were, Theyre a utiity class with stuns/CC's/Roots/snares/ and either decent dps with next to no survivability 1v1(force armor and force speed/slow are your only defensive CD's) or a decent healer with decent survivability assuming you use terrain to your advantage but little damaging ability to kill people. Yes there are other paths to take to do other things but these 2 are what you see the most of.

[eventidephoenix]

I'm doing something slightly similar, I found to have a lot more control but less damage... on Elrathion's advice ^^

 

0-20-21

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600Zfc0rbMrZcMcRsrk.1

 

I focus on dotting as well, but what I do is I pick one poor fella, mind crush, FiB, Weaken mind him and the other 2 which got caught in FiB If I can. THen turn my attention to the already dying guy and finish him off...

 

My team mates would have probably already went for him given his extremely low health, and by the time they can turn their attention to the other 2 dott-ed ones they become easy prey after getting hit for quite a lot of internal damage....

 

If healers are going after him, you have plenty of disrupts: Mind Snap, Force Lift, Stun etc. Any good teammate should be busy taking care of the main guy you're going for.

 

getting away 1v1 becomes easy with instant force lift, effusion, force wake or my own stun...

 

essentially I found myself becoming an effective Utility Sage... Never topping boards, but great support... That may suck for ratings, but I still enjoy my games

Edited April 13, 2012 by eventidephoenix

[Monchos]

I've always been a healer, since i started playing swtor (and wow before). We WERE squishy before the patch but we had tools to deal with it (we had a decent self-healing). Now, the only thing i can do is run around like a headless chicken, hoping that no1 focuses on me. I'd hate to have to reroll, since this was my favourite char, but doing WZ had always been fun for me... till yesterday.

 

I also tried a dps build yesterday, and its more of the same- except that now we have 0 survivalibity. Ergo, ill start practicing with my guardian, or level up a shadow. Who knows what they will do to us on the next patch.

 

As an aside, I won't comment on the pocahontas pve outfit, but seeing a fat male twilek with a bare shoulder will definately be grose.

[eventidephoenix]

I've always been a healer, since i started playing swtor (and wow before). We WERE squishy before the patch but we had tools to deal with it (we had a decent self-healing). Now, the only thing i can do is run around like a headless chicken, hoping that no1 focuses on me. I'd hate to have to reroll, since this was my favourite char, but doing WZ had always been fun for me... till yesterday.

 

I also tried a dps build yesterday, and its more of the same- except that now we have 0 survivalibity. Ergo, ill start practicing with my guardian, or level up a shadow. Who knows what they will do to us on the next patch.

 

As an aside, I won't comment on the pocahontas pve outfit, but seeing a fat male twilek with a bare shoulder will definately be grose.

 

you're right about the squishiness, and my goodness those outfits make pocahontas look like a fashion hit

[Kentachi]

As I said to Sinladin on the movie (lol):

 

I think I have some cheese in the fridge, want some? xD

 

Jokes aside,

You will always learn to adapt, like you guys are sharing ideas etc now. It's great And be sure to get a personal tank to guard you, it be win! Hehe

 

Ken

[Ewgal]

Agreed. The 0/10/31 is a good one for PvP and PvE post 1.2.

[DirtyBirdie]

This is my favorite PVP build thus far post 1.2:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600ZfMMMbMbZcrcRsMkR.1

 

Being the squishiest class out there and the recent damage buffs, you really have to utilize the sage's CC's and immob options to add the most value to your team. In addition, i think we can all agree that some of the hardest classes for us to kill are the melee dps such as sentinels/shadow tanks, etc. This build will help with these types quite a bit, but as a side note, if you're solo 1v1ing them you're still dead. period. the game currently is designed in such a way that dps sages in a 1v1 setting just flat out lose against almost everything, and yes it sucks. But in a team environment i find this build will help survivability.

 

 

Some pro's of this build:

 

1) Kinetic Colapse/Telekinetic Defence: KNOW HOW TO USE IT!

 

Buffed up bubble that explodes on failure incapacitating near by enemies for 3 seconds. You really have to get used to using this properly on yourself vs melee dps. Say a sentinel jumps you. Dont panic, Get a couple of shots in, then bubble and stop all dps on target!!! If you hit them during the immob kinetic collapse is basically useless, you HAVE to know the mechanics for it to be useful to you. Once the bubble pops (takes no time at all) force sprint and try to get close to your team. If they persist i usually cast slow, dot them up, then start the pebble throw to get the most out of the distance you've gained. This is also awesome for ball carriers vs melee on huttball for obvious reasons.

 

2) Force Wake

 

Butt stomp gets a 5 second immob in which 2 seconds of that damage can be applied without breaking root. Step 1) not good enough to kill that pesky melee? This is Step 2). Once again i usually use this root to try to get back near my team for assistance but if thats just not an option same thing applies. Root em, throw up dots and try to get away as much as possible.

 

3) Containment/Pinning resolve Combo

 

Insta lift with 2 second stun on fall, PLUS 10 seconds shaved off force stun. If you havent figured this out yet, the theme of this build is stun/cc/root to the max. That 10 seconds shaved off stun is actually pretty huge, and the super lift is tons of fun for PvE content. Another reason to put the points into pinning resolve is that you will eventually reach a point where you need to place 2 points in the balance tree to get to the next tier, and i think the PVP gain from Pinning resolve beats out jedi resistance, focused insight, and mind ward. Be careful with force lift as it will max out resolve bars.

 

 

The other nice thing i like about this build is that in the damage department all you're really missing out on is the +30% to dots, which is pretty big but if your not getting severe force it only really affects 2 of your spells, and really really only affects weaken mind effectively. Remember that the point of the hybrid build from a DPS perspective post 1.2 is to get psychic projection, as it still double dips and hits pretty hard.

 

An additional note, please remember to use your force potency appropriately and often to either get off a couple of extra TK throws at distance or to punch out some bigger burst. Unfortunately through this 1.2's early lifecycle, i believe our dps classes have the mediumish burst, mediumish AOE (FiB = 3 targets sucks), pretty bad dots, and we wear cloth... so time to become utility artists and just pray that we get top tier buffs or TK wave back when they figure out how to fix double dipping/in the next patch. and PLEASE don't become a dot spammer/bubble vendor... if thats the only useful aspect of your pvping experience you will get very bored very fast and the numbers you put up at the end of the day are usually pretty useless to the team. Good luck team squishfaces, hope this helps and hope BW figures out the idea of the glass cannon soon :/.

[Kalderus]

This is my favorite PVP build thus far post 1.2:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600ZfMMMbMbZcrcRsMkR.1

 

Being the squishiest class out there and the recent damage buffs, you really have to utilize the sage's CC's and immob options to add the most value to your team. In addition, i think we can all agree that some of the hardest classes for us to kill are the melee dps such as sentinels/shadow tanks, etc. This build will help with these types quite a bit, but as a side note, if you're solo 1v1ing them you're still dead. period. the game currently is designed in such a way that dps sages in a 1v1 setting just flat out lose against almost everything, and yes it sucks. But in a team environment i find this build will help survivability.

 

 

Some pro's of this build:

 

1) Kinetic Colapse/Telekinetic Defence: KNOW HOW TO USE IT!

 

Buffed up bubble that explodes on failure incapacitating near by enemies for 3 seconds. You really have to get used to using this properly on yourself vs melee dps. Say a sentinel jumps you. Dont panic, Get a couple of shots in, then bubble and stop all dps on target!!! If you hit them during the immob kinetic collapse is basically useless, you HAVE to know the mechanics for it to be useful to you. Once the bubble pops (takes no time at all) force sprint and try to get close to your team. If they persist i usually cast slow, dot them up, then start the pebble throw to get the most out of the distance you've gained. This is also awesome for ball carriers vs melee on huttball for obvious reasons.

 

2) Force Wake

 

Butt stomp gets a 5 second immob in which 2 seconds of that damage can be applied without breaking root. Step 1) not good enough to kill that pesky melee? This is Step 2). Once again i usually use this root to try to get back near my team for assistance but if thats just not an option same thing applies. Root em, throw up dots and try to get away as much as possible.

 

3) Containment/Pinning resolve Combo

 

Insta lift with 2 second stun on fall, PLUS 10 seconds shaved off force stun. If you havent figured this out yet, the theme of this build is stun/cc/root to the max. That 10 seconds shaved off stun is actually pretty huge, and the super lift is tons of fun for PvE content. Another reason to put the points into pinning resolve is that you will eventually reach a point where you need to place 2 points in the balance tree to get to the next tier, and i think the PVP gain from Pinning resolve beats out jedi resistance, focused insight, and mind ward. Be careful with force lift as it will max out resolve bars.

 

 

The other nice thing i like about this build is that in the damage department all you're really missing out on is the +30% to dots, which is pretty big but if your not getting severe force it only really affects 2 of your spells, and really really only affects weaken mind effectively. Remember that the point of the hybrid build from a DPS perspective post 1.2 is to get psychic projection, as it still double dips and hits pretty hard.

 

An additional note, please remember to use your force potency appropriately and often to either get off a couple of extra TK throws at distance or to punch out some bigger burst. Unfortunately through this 1.2's early lifecycle, i believe our dps classes have the mediumish burst, mediumish AOE (FiB = 3 targets sucks), pretty bad dots, and we wear cloth... so time to become utility artists and just pray that we get top tier buffs or TK wave back when they figure out how to fix double dipping/in the next patch. and PLEASE don't become a dot spammer/bubble vendor... if thats the only useful aspect of your pvping experience you will get very bored very fast and the numbers you put up at the end of the day are usually pretty useless to the team. Good luck team squishfaces, hope this helps and hope BW figures out the idea of the glass cannon soon :/.

 

 

I think you truly hit the nail on the head with that. Bioware really needs to understand the glass cannon concept, and it's completely ludicrous that it hasn't yet. In any rpg, ranging from pre-console tabletop to modern sandbox game mage type characters have always worn the weakest, lightest armour, but they've made up for it by doing the HIGHEST armour-unmitigated damage and/or the HIGHEST single and group healing (I'm putting priests/monks/ whatever a game called them into the same category).

 

Honestly it's unbelieveable that while Sonic Team figured this concept out in 1987 with Phantasy Star (making Lutz/Noah's hp and armour the weakest but giving him the best damage spells) Bioware in 2012 still doesn't get it.

[Sinladin]

An additional note, please remember to use your force potency appropriately and often to either get off a couple of extra TK throws at distance or to punch out some bigger burst. Unfortunately through this 1.2's early lifecycle, i believe our dps classes have the mediumish burst, mediumish AOE (FiB = 3 targets sucks), pretty bad dots, and we wear cloth... so time to become utility artists and just pray that we get top tier buffs or TK wave back when they figure out how to fix double dipping/in the next patch. and PLEASE don't become a dot spammer/bubble vendor... if thats the only useful aspect of your pvping experience you will get very bored very fast and the numbers you put up at the end of the day are usually pretty useless to the team. Good luck team squishfaces, hope this helps and hope BW figures out the idea of the glass cannon soon :/.

 

You are so soo right.. I have been trying out several different speccs now, and the one I am using at the moment is very similar to the one you use. Only difference is that I have 2 points in "Telekinetic effusion" to lower the cd on force speed.

It really sucks that I have to put so many points in survival skills instead of dmg skills.

Now, all I can do is beeing a slooow dps. Dotting and cc'ing. And believe it or not.. People think that beeing cc'd is very annoying.. So the suffering I go through when they choose to pay me back is horrible...

 

It feels like Im not contributing a lot while fighting, and the feeling I get from beeing top dps on the scoreboard is just.. empty.. Cause I know I did 300-500k dmg by poking people. If it hadnt been for the other dps in my group, who actually do some burst dmg, I would never get a kill...

Killing people in 1v1 (when I manage to kill someone in 1v1) takes sooo sooo long. Its like a game of hide and seek.

 

And because there is no dual specc in swtor yet, doing pve with my specc is just... Yeah..

Bioware.. plx!?

 

Im sorry for making a whining post.. To be a jedi sage dps after patch 1.2, you have to have a good patience.. And right now I just dont have it.. I want a specc where I can actually see that people die because of me, and still beeing able to survive for more than 3sec when targeted by more than one player...

[Sinladin]

As I said to Sinladin on the movie (lol):

 

 

 

Jokes aside,

You will always learn to adapt, like you guys are sharing ideas etc now. It's great And be sure to get a personal tank to guard you, it be win! Hehe

 

Ken

 

Get your pc back dude.. I need you o_O

[idonotdonot]

Are you serious with this spec? No points in TK Defense but full points in Jedi Resistance?

 

It bugs me when people just spam dots.You aren't helping your team in anyway and are just trying to make it look like you are awesome at dpsing.

I've been trying this specc out and I've found my dps is hitting the same numbers I ussually hit with the hybrid,it may look wierd but try it,it is very good for 1v1s and support dps'ing.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600G0bZbczZfRbRsMkrc.1

I'm suprised not many people used the 10% AoE dmg increase in the seer tree as much,as you end up getting wicked crits with force inbalance.

[DirtyBirdie]

Are you serious with this spec? No points in TK Defense but full points in Jedi Resistance?

 

yea not going to lie this build is pretty bad... here are some big pitfalls:

 

1) as stated above, jedi resistance is terrible and TK defense is amazing, not only for you but everyone else you bubble.

2) 2 points into psychic suffusion to get a 10% boost to FiB when it only hits 3 people and has a significant cooldown is pretty bad point efficiency.

3) im just going to say as a DPS sage, you really dont need any points in seer, the only arguable points in that tree for you is the penetrating light and even then its 3 points for 3% crit... meh...

4) Kinda shocking u didnt get Inner strength but considering how fast we die force efficiency doesnt really matter.

 

The reduced deliverance time isnt a bad choice. I've seen some sages who go as far as rejuvinate/conveyance in the seer tree to be healer/dps hybrids which is pretty cool but that was pre 1.2. Now that conveyance is roflbad i dont think it would be as effective

[Ewgal]

You think dotting everyone in sight is viable as a ranked player? I noticed that you didn't actually get hit (except for one stun), in your clip. Please, post a video where you defend your turret 1v1 against someone that has BM gear. Post one where you kill finish off a healer without help.

 

The tactic is more DoTing, stunning, and then TK throw as a sage. It's quite effective as the DoTing and stunning can be done on the move.

[Sinladin]

I have made two more videos showing the (0-20-21) pure pvp specc and a more pve specc (but still viable in pvp 0-13-28)

 

 

Be sure to check them out, and let me know what you think about especially the pve/pvp specc, as I want to be able to be useful in pve before dual specc comes out.. And it gets rather expensive respeccing every day...

[Kentachi]

Nice follow-up mate

[idonotdonot]

Thanks for the video.I have a similar but slightly different spec in reference to your 0-20-21 spec.

 

I'd replace Mental Longevity with Disturb Mind for more DPS. You have full points in TK Effussion and Psychic Barrier to keep your force up. I would also move one point from Psychic barrier and put it in Drain Thoughts for more DPS.

 

 

 

I have made two more videos showing the (0-20-21) pure pvp specc and a more pve specc (but still viable in pvp 0-13-28)

 

 

Be sure to check them out, and let me know what you think about especially the pve/pvp specc, as I want to be able to be useful in pve before dual specc comes out.. And it gets rather expensive respeccing every day...

[Sinladin]

Thanks for the video.I have a similar but slightly different spec in reference to your 0-20-21 spec.

 

I'd replace Mental Longevity with Disturb Mind for more DPS. You have full points in TK Effussion and Psychic Barrier to keep your force up. I would also move one point from Psychic barrier and put it in Drain Thoughts for more DPS.

 

Yeah, thats more or less the specc im using at the moment

[eventidephoenix]

Yeah, thats more or less the specc im using at the moment

 

I'm running this spec for flexibility

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600ZccMRdRdZcrcRRRk.1

 

BUT it kinda sucks for PvE.... I would go for 0/13/28 or 1/12/28 for PvE, unfortunately in PvP these suck for force management...

 

Currently I run 0/20/21 for all PvE UNLESS we're running EC HM or Nightmare Pilgrim where that extra DPS is more than welcome