So how is it (1.2)

[Ahebish]

So you admit that Juggs saw a 10% nerf and then say they got boosted? So a nerf equals a boost? You know if they were hitting for 8200 (which they don't) 10% is 820 not 300 as you indicate. Mars/Sents didn't get boosted. Their two underutilized and worthless specs got boosted. The spec everyone cries in their oatmeal over, Annihilation, wasn't touched. And Operatives have been the worst healer in the game since release, they needed the buff.

 

Operatives are viable now.

 

You have no clue do you? Do I REALLY need to get a screen shot of a jug buddy of mine doing 8k+ crits pre 1.2? No I don't because you aren't worth the effort.

 

Jugs got boosted read the patch notes. Despite the 10% nerf to smash I'm still 3 shotting silver elites my own level on my jug. Ask me how many times I've done that on my level 50 operative at any point in time what so ever pre and post 1.1.1.

 

Marauders got boosted read the patch notes.

 

Sentinels got boosted read the patch notes.

 

Operative healers got boosted read the patch notes.

 

Assassins remained unchanged read the patch notes.

 

Sorc healers got nerf'd read the patch notes

 

BH/trooper healers got nerf'd read the patch notes.

 

Gunslinger/Snipers got boosted read the patch notes.

 

Concealment didn't get the nerf bat it got nerf nuked in 1.2. Obviously you've never played one to any notable degree for your opinion to account for anything.

 

BH/Trooper tracer spam nerf is an efing joke at best.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Zoggel
Rude Quote

[Tadus]

I'd be interested in how Ops are doing against equal geared opponents of different classes. The point of the OP?

 

Fanbois please only respond if you have something other than armchair theorizing on why everything is ok.

[Russlem]

I'd be interested in how Ops are doing against equal geared opponents of different classes. The point of the OP?

 

Fanbois please only respond if you have something other than armchair theorizing on why everything is ok.

 

Which is worse than armchair theorizing that the earth beneath our feet is falling away? If someone looking at a 5% nerf and says "meh" is a fanboy, then someone who looks at the same nerf and threatens to unsubscribe must be the king of the internet trolls. Logic.

[Ahebish]

I'd be interested in how Ops are doing against equal geared opponents of different classes. The point of the OP?

 

Fanbois please only respond if you have something other than armchair theorizing on why everything is ok.

 

I'll describe my personal experience not that it means much to most people who can't think for themselves.

 

I fought a healer 1v1. He had a BH teammate standing next to him.

 

I fought this healer for 4 minutes strait. The BH stood there and watched and did nothing to help the healer.

 

Then I got jumped by 3 more people at the same time.

 

I try to use Shiv which is our TA builder. It fails 85% of the time to fire from the toolbar. I suspect a toolbar bug.

 

I struggle to gain TA's so that I can use lacerate.

 

Backstab has a 12 second CD which isn't a huge deal, but when I can't shiv to proc lacerate it's a HUGE deal.

 

So after my initial rotation (which is the only time my skills actually work). I have 10-12 seconds of down time waiting on Shiv to work, or backstab to come off CD.

 

All the while sitting at 80-100% energy because I have no skills I can use as fillers other than Rifle shot which was nerf'd by 10%

 

Not to mention my bonus damage aka tech damage was nerf'd by almost 20% as well

 

Not to mention all the subsequent nerfs as posted in 1.2

 

Not to mention my suspicion that power was nerf'd as well.

 

Not to mention my suscpicion they nerf'd our melee range. The description still says 4 meters, however I'm notcing I have to be 1/2 the distance I usually am to actually hit someone. This makes kite classes a big issue for us... You know we don't have a gap closer and all. Not to mention positional requirements for backstab which I'm starting to think the AOA has been changed to be more acute.

 

Maybe some of this will come back with war hero... but at this point i seriously doubt it.

 

Here's my favorite example. I fought an assassin 1v1... pretty even fight alls well... then suddenly he snares me, I snare him... I watched this sin out run me while we were both snared. Which means I can't get position to use backstab which happens to be off CD. Then he gets help from 2 more people and the rest is history. All the while I can't hit this person because of Shiv fail.

 

It's not just our class that's been saying this.

 

It's Sorcs, and BH's who also have been saying the concealments got nuked in 1.2.

 

It's one thing if it's just our class complaining... but I'm hearing the same thing from all classes about how worthless concealment ops are now.

 

There's my personal experience.

 

Go ahead and point out I need to L2P.

 

Go ahead and point out this game is bug free

 

Go ahead and point out Bioware caters to the operative class

 

Go ahead and point out I'm a scrub who hasn't PVP'd a day in my life after 8 years in 6 different MMO's.

 

Go ahead and point out Georg Z didn't say anything about operatives as you read it in my signature.

 

I gave my personal experiences and I'm done with it.

 

Do with the info as you will. I really could care less at this point.

 

Although I enjoy my jug and I now know just how OP the class really is.

 

I loved concealment since beta, I was dead set making it my main. But apparently Bioware had other plans for me.

 

I no longer have fun playing this game.

 

Which means it's time to take a break.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Ahebish

[Tagsley]

^ best post to date.

[playasaurus]

Surge didn't get changed. Your items did. They redesigned some item sets to include more useful stats, and existing copies were changed on Live as long as you hadn't swapped the mods in and out before the patch went live. So that 390 you have now was probably 360 before the patch, or something similar, and you've lost 30 points from some other stat to compensate (possibly Accuracy). The ONLY stat whose equation changed was Expertise.

 

As for the rest of your statement? Even if Expertise made up for the drop in DPS (and by definition, that's only in PvP that it changed, leaving us PvEers even worse off), everyone else got that boost as well and didn't have any offsetting damage nerfs. So maybe you can kill a target as fast as you used to (which I doubt), but that Marauder or Mercenary over there can do it even faster than before.

 

BM mods/enhancements have exactly the same stats as before the patch (except for an added 25 expertise per mod). I had 390 surge pre 1.2, and 390 surge post 1.2. That means surge got changed, unless you're telling me 390 != 390 anymore and I magically have invisible surge rating.

 

To all the people who are saying they do no damage - get 1k expertise and keep your old champion power+surge mods in your gear.

 

Due to the availability of War Hero power+surge mods, once people have twinked their gear, a BiS geared player will faceroll all over BM players to a much greater extent than pre-1.2

Edited April 13, 2012 by playasaurus

[playasaurus]

Well I hope you are right.

 

Because I'm in full BM with 600 expertise and I see nerfs across the board before I even factor in the posted 1.2 changes.

 

Maybe it'll balance out with war hero i dunno.

 

600 expertise... I guess you didn't change back your old mods prior patch to get the upgraded versions. With a set of the new BM gear you should be at 1k+ expertise.

[LordTie]

You have no clue do you? Do I REALLY need to get a screen shot of a jug buddy of mine doing 8k+ crits pre 1.2? No I don't because you aren't worth the effort.

 

Jugs got boosted read the patch notes. Despite the 10% nerf to smash I'm still 3 shotting silver elites my own level on my jug. Ask me how many times I've done that on my level 50 operative at any point in time what so ever pre and post 1.1.1.

 

Marauders got boosted read the patch notes.

 

Sentinels got boosted read the patch notes.

 

Operative healers got boosted read the patch notes.

 

Assassins remained unchanged read the patch notes.

 

Sorc healers got nerf'd read the patch notes

 

BH/trooper healers got nerf'd read the patch notes.

 

Gunslinger/Snipers got boosted read the patch notes.

 

Concealment didn't get the nerf bat it got nerf nuked in 1.2. Obviously you've never played one to any notable degree for your opinion to account for anything.

 

BH/Trooper tracer spam nerf is an efing joke at best.

 

 

I want to see 8.2k crit on a rage jugg from smash? I am calling you out on this. Becaue no way they are doing that to equally geared players. pre or post 1.2 as my main is a rage jugg no where have i ever gotten a 8.2k crit. So please humor us and don't photo shop it. Post it because obviously i must be doing something wrong.

[Ahebish]

600 expertise... I guess you didn't change back your old mods prior patch to get the upgraded versions. With a set of the new BM gear you should be at 1k+ expertise.

 

correction btw

 

I just noticed I have over 800 expertise and I'm in full BM

 

But no I didn't change back my old mods.

 

I use 2pc PVE bonus so I'll never have max expertise like some classes.

 

Our class bonus' on our armor sucks... and the better bonus' are on PVE gear. More specifically the 2pc bonus, otherwise all other set bonus' are worthless to concealment.

 

Obivously something the dedicated PTS jockies missed nor neglected to mention prior to 1.2 even hitting PTS.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Ahebish

[Russlem]

BM mods/enhancements have exactly the same stats as before the patch (except for an added 25 expertise per mod). I had 390 surge pre 1.2, and 390 surge post 1.2. That means surge got changed, unless you're telling me 390 != 390 anymore and I magically have invisible surge rating.

 

To all the people who are saying they do no damage - get 1k expertise and keep your old champion power+surge mods in your gear.

 

Due to the availability of War Hero power+surge mods, once people have twinked their gear, a BiS geared player will faceroll all over BM players to a much greater extent than pre-1.2

 

You actually might magically have surge rating. Completing all conversation options with any melee DPS companion nets you 1% permanent surge rating to your Legacy.

[Ahebish]

I want to see 8.2k crit on a rage jugg from smash? I am calling you out on this. Becaue no way they are doing that to equally geared players. pre or post 1.2 as my main is a rage jugg no where have i ever gotten a 8.2k crit. So please humor us and don't photo shop it. Post it because obviously i must be doing something wrong.

 

The fact you have to call me out, means you don't know the game as well as you think.

 

I never said it was a common occurance either did I? I said it can be done and has been done since pre and post 1.1.1 and even against same gearing level as the person I know who has done it.

 

How about a little less time complaining about my class to the point it gets nuked from nerfs and a little more time learning to play your own?

 

No I don't mean that to be mean, but the fact I have to explain to you how to play your main says all that needs to be said about why concealment got nuked; While your class got boosted in 1.2.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Ahebish

[TheStrika]

I have actually found that, if anything, I am doing better than before. I dont know if this is due to the healing nerfs/class nerfs, but I definitely don't feel nerfed myself.

[LordTie]

The fact you have to call me out, means you don't know the game as well as you think.

 

I never said it was a common occurance either did I? I said it can be done and has been done since pre and post 1.1.1 and even against same gearing level as the person I know who has done it.

 

How about a little less time complaining about my class to the point it gets nuked from nerfs and a little more time learning to play your own?

 

No I don't mean that to be mean, but the fact I have to explain to you how to play your main says all that needs to be said about why concealment got nuked; While your class got boosted in 1.2.

 

As a rage jugg i never have an issue with your class in pvp pre or post 1.2. I know how to play my class is why you pointed out soemthing THAT MIGHT happen once in a blue moon on every other thursday during the month of June type of occurence but i have to learn how to play. Take your wow talk back to wow please. So like i said stop QQing about it. I play a concealment operative as my alt. For the record i never complaiend about your class being OP in PVP because i never really had an issue with them.

Edited April 13, 2012 by LordTie

[TheStrika]

I am also running full bm minus the relics(champ), and am at 1087 expertise. It doesn't feel like it is worth it to get 2 piece pve anymore(if it ever was).

[Ahebish]

As a rage jugg i never have an issue with your class in pvp pre or post 1.2. I know how to play my class is why you pointed out soemthing THAT MIGHT happen once in a blue moon on every other thursday during the month of June type of occurence but i have to learn how to play. Take your wow talk back to wow please. So like i said stop QQing about it. I play a concealment operative as my alt. For the record i never complaiend about your class being OP in PVP because i never really had an issue with them.

 

/facepalm

 

And yet you still don't know how to do an 8k crit.

 

Carry on then pretending to be a factor on your jug.

[Ahebish]

I am also running full bm minus the relics(champ), and am at 1087 expertise. It doesn't feel like it is worth it to get 2 piece pve anymore(if it ever was).

 

Just to clarify

 

By doing this which is all well and good I never critisize someone for it.

 

You just lost 15% crit chance on backstab which had it's CD nerf'd by 25% as well.

 

I know why you chose all PVP gear, but show me some parsing data of expertise making up that lost damage over time. And I'll even consider doing it myself. Pre nerf and post nerf. I know we can't do pre-nerf but if we could you'd realize just how much damage you are losing over time and even more so without that 15% crit chance.

 

That translates into yet another self inflicted nerf, because all the PVP set bonus' are garbage for concealment.

 

And I'm sure you already know this right?

Edited April 13, 2012 by Ahebish

[TheStrika]

You are also sacrificing 3% increased dmg to players, on all abilities, by using the 2 piece pve. I understand the thinking, I just think with the changes to expertise, we are better off with full pvp gear.

 

Yes, our set bonuses are ridiculously bad.

Edited April 13, 2012 by TheStrika

[Ahebish]

You are also sacrificing 3% increased dmg to players, on all abilities, by using the 2 piece pve. I understand the thinking, I just think with the changes to expertise, we are better off with full pvp gear.

 

Again I have to see some real DPS parsing with both cases being considered before I can 100% agree.

 

I think it's a double edged sword. 15% crit = more spike, while expertise I think = higher DPS over time.

 

Me personally I'm stacked for spike damage not so much for DPS considering our class isn't exactly geared for DPS over time. I stuck with the one thing our class had pre 1.2 against most classes.

 

But it looks like that may not be the way to go anymore.

 

/shrug

Edited April 13, 2012 by Ahebish

[Coplann]

First off, my spec is now 8/33/0. It was 5 / 31 / 5.

 

I could not stomache wasting 3 talent points for a whooping 3% to crit chance. 8% more or less damage for Shiv did not bother me either, instead I got the improved big heal (for TA generation), more cunning (obviously) and the 4% more damage resistance with a leftover point into reduced setback for healing.

 

It seemed to me that I could not live with only 31 in concealment now (thanks to the two new talents, flanking and the follow up) which kinda sucks... Yes, you might argue that it might actually not be worth to to really go for acid blade, now that it is no longer possible to keep it on the target as often as before.

 

Iam not perfectly geared (currently only in T2 with a lil over 500 expertise) and 16000 HPs.

 

The first thing I noticed in PvP was that the incoming damage was much higher than pre patch (probably due to the changed expertise caps). Especially Commandos and Bounty Hunters pretty much melted me with insane and fast damage (evasion does not seem to help versus Bounty Hunters white shots...).

After getting used to the damn long BS cooldown (*pew* *pew* lasergun...) I thought I was doing okay for my gearlevel. In a really good Voidstar I made 14 medals and 200 K damage with 80 K healing. Pre patch Iam pretty sure in a match like that I would have been close to 300 K, at least 250 K anyway. So yeah, 20% damage decrease is about what I see for me. The new BS damage is nice, but everything else hits for less (laceration... ).

 

Actually I hate the new resolve on sleep dart. Having it give full resolve allowed to sleep dart someone, then wait for him to use his stun breaker or, wait for it to run out which leads to his resolve bar getting emptied again allowing to stun him just fine afterwards. Now they sit at 70% resolve which means stun immunity after HS, so this is a nerf imho.

 

My highest crit was about 3600, but I often also saw BS for ~1500 and HS for as low as 1200.

Energy starvation is also more severe now (less HS and no more free HS anyway)...

 

Id figure if I was in full T3 (or T4) Id do better and more consistent damage, but with no mobility-skill and no (decent) defensive cooldowns Iam asking myself to go healing like so many others or finish leveling my Jugg or Shadow...

 

Well with the new PvP reward system upgrading to T3 and then 4 will take years...

 

in regards to PvP Set Bonus': I run the fieldtech-set (or whatever it is called), at least another Orbital Strike tick and high range on my interrupt is much more usefull than 1 sec on evasion or 5 sec on group stealth...

 

my .02 credits

[Kognos]

You are also sacrificing 3% increased dmg to players, on all abilities, by using the 2 piece pve. I understand the thinking, I just think with the changes to expertise, we are better off with full pvp gear.

 

Yes, our set bonuses are ridiculously bad.

 

I just put my bm glove/boot mods into my extra pve gloves/boots to keep the 2 piece set bonus without giving up the expertise.

[Ryemfoh]

The fact you have to call me out, means you don't know the game as well as you think.

 

I never said it was a common occurance either did I? I said it can be done and has been done since pre and post 1.1.1 and even against same gearing level as the person I know who has done it.

 

How about a little less time complaining about my class to the point it gets nuked from nerfs and a little more time learning to play your own?

 

No I don't mean that to be mean, but the fact I have to explain to you how to play your main says all that needs to be said about why concealment got nuked; While your class got boosted in 1.2.

 

This is par for the course with Ahebish ... always making grandiose statements, offering to, and then refusing to post any evidence

 

For the record, I've seen youtube vids of huge Jug crits, all pre-1.1

 

Back on topic. I also haven't managed to find any time to play post-patch ... can anyone tell me how energy management is working out and whether we are able to use Overload Shot as much as I suspect?

 

All the QQ I've read is about how rotations are messed up and our damage is nerfed, but none mention that they're tried making any adjustments to compensate for the energy / cooldown changes...

[playasaurus]

I just put my bm glove/boot mods into my extra pve gloves/boots to keep the 2 piece set bonus without giving up the expertise.

 

I did the same yesterday - not sure why people are having such a hard time figuring it out. The only question is if the set bonus attached to war hero armoring mod, will overwrite the backstab bonus on the pve gear if you insert it.

[SammuelSK]

Back on topic. I also haven't managed to find any time to play post-patch ... can anyone tell me how energy management is working out and whether we are able to use Overload Shot as much as I suspect?

 

Its pretty dreadful actually, due to the changes other classes recieved and the overall buff that damage picked up in PVP we're pretty much forced to blow everything at once and as soon as possible. Why? We simply don't have the defensive abilites to soak up the huge hits other classes are throwing out so we're forced to race them to zero.

 

Going back to your question, since we recieved some pretty significant damage reductions that basiclly means we have no room to pause, let energy tick up a bit between big attacks while using blaster fire, such as a mara or jug might do with their rage builders.. which I suspect that BW was trying to get us to do and failed miserably. As is, often you'll find yourself sitting at close to or actual zero energy with the opponent you are fighting far enough from dead that you can't bring him down with a Overload Shot(If you have the energy) or Blaster Fire (Since often you wont). All this of course is assuming that you aren't facing someone who's either incompetent or badly geared. Those poor sobs are still going to be easy kills.

 

All in all, the class is still sorta kinda viable... but its pretty miserable, very much an uphill battle and frustrating as ****.. as you'll often die to people who simply have a much stronger and better designed class. On the other hand, my BH was absolutely destorying people in recruit level blues.. often going up against the same players that gave my Ops trouble before.. so I suspect its less about player skill.. and more about the state of the class.

[Ryemfoh]

Its pretty dreadful actually, due to the changes other classes recieved and the overall buff that damage picked up in PVP we're pretty much forced to blow everything at once and as soon as possible. Why? We simply don't have the defensive abilites to soak up the huge hits other classes are throwing out so we're forced to race them to zero.

 

I'm fairly surprised by these reports (not the first one I've seen). Pre 1.2 I found my survivability to actually be fairly good - even from early-50 when I just had a few Centurion pieces.

 

I would have expected that to remain the case, since the Expertise changes should theoretically effect everyone's damage done/reduced by the same amount.

[RubbinMyWookie]

Yes you REALLY need to back up your statements with concrete evidence, and not tell us to take your word for it or read the patch notes. Your numbers seem REALLY exaggerated from what I've seen.

 

You have no clue do you? Do I REALLY need to get a screen shot of a jug buddy of mine doing 8k+ crits pre 1.2? No I don't because you aren't worth the effort.

 

Jugs got boosted read the patch notes. Despite the 10% nerf to smash I'm still 3 shotting silver elites my own level on my jug. Ask me how many times I've done that on my level 50 operative at any point in time what so ever pre and post 1.1.1.

 

Marauders got boosted read the patch notes.

 

Sentinels got boosted read the patch notes.

 

Operative healers got boosted read the patch notes.

 

Assassins remained unchanged read the patch notes.

 

Sorc healers got nerf'd read the patch notes

 

BH/trooper healers got nerf'd read the patch notes.

 

Gunslinger/Snipers got boosted read the patch notes.

 

Concealment didn't get the nerf bat it got nerf nuked in 1.2. Obviously you've never played one to any notable degree for your opinion to account for anything.

 

BH/Trooper tracer spam nerf is an efing joke at best.