crashoverridex Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I recently came back to SWTOR and am leveling my juggernaut primarily through pvp and one of the main reasons why i left in the first place was because of the ability delay and how badly it affected this class. Retaliation actually seems to go off as an off the gcd attack but things such as force push and to a lesser extent force charge still act really wonky. There are situations where i want to use my force push to knockback someone into a fire pit or poison pit (whatever the green stuff is in hutball) but force push acts so wonky. Sometimes i force push someone and my opponent goes flying sideways or straight into the goal line in hutball. In order to compensate for this i have to wait a few secs before force pushing but pvp is fast paced and sometimes you dont have a few secs Force charge has a problem charging moving targets as well. There are times where i want to wait for someone to cross a fire pit before force charging them so i can root them as the pit goes off and then use a force choke but what actually happens is my opponent continues moving forward and ends up rooted far from the fire pit. So the question is, should i continue leveling my juggernaut knowing that some of its most useful abilities dont function properly in pvp or should i just level an assassin tank or powertech tank for pvp? do assassin or powertech tanks have some of the same issues with some of their abilities not working properly because of lag? i just feel like im being skill capped because i cant use these two abilities to their maximum potential. how do other juggs feel about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofdamornin Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Ideally, there would be no lag, but we do not live in a latency-free world, so we have to compensate for it. The problem isn't so much that you can't, it's that you aren't. The animation for Push has to finish before they are actually Pushed, which causes a slight delay. Once you start to compensate for this (and lag), you will find yourself Pushing people where you intended to Push them, most of the time. I find that the two abilities you mention work as I intend them to work, the vast majority of the time. I think you will be fine, once you make a few minor adjustments to your timing. On the other hand - if the ability lag issue (which was fixed pretty quickly) caused you to quit playing the game, perhaps you will not be fine. No judgement there, just trying to show both sides of the coin in regards to your question. Riôt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashoverridex Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 Ideally, there would be no lag, but we do not live in a latency-free world, so we have to compensate for it. The problem isn't so much that you can't, it's that you aren't. The animation for Push has to finish before they are actually Pushed, which causes a slight delay. Once you start to compensate for this (and lag), you will find yourself Pushing people where you intended to Push them, most of the time. I find that the two abilities you mention work as I intend them to work, the vast majority of the time. I think you will be fine, once you make a few minor adjustments to your timing. On the other hand - if the ability lag issue (which was fixed pretty quickly) caused you to quit playing the game, perhaps you will not be fine. No judgement there, just trying to show both sides of the coin in regards to your question. Riôt Hey riot thx for replying. maybe i feel as though the amount of compensation needed to make force push work properly is too much. i think force push is the equivalent of force pull for assassins but assassins dont have to compensate as much as we do to make their force pull work like they want it to. One of the things that i would like to do would be to force charge someone like a healer and push them into a group of my teammates or a ball carrier away from the goal line when theyre about to score or into a fire pit/poison pit but currently im unable to execute that combo. When i try to force push it will most of the time push my targets sideways and in some rare cases backwards. Ill try to make a video of it because its hard to explain it in words. In rift i used knockbacks to great effect mainly to push players out of their healers LoS or push healers to LoS their teammates and never felt like i had to compensate for lag and cant remember a time where my knockback caused my target to fly sideways. i guess im just not used to having to compensate this much. its not server latency either because i play with 40-90ms latency. Im not a computer expert or anything but it seems like the server is detecting the player and myself at different positions to what i see on screen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofdamornin Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I will tell you this - my Push almost Never works correctly anywhere near a goal line. Especially if it's a Consular/Inquisitor with their Speed on. I do know/have seen what you are referring to, because it happens to me sometimes too. It sounds like you want it work *right now* (as do I, lol), but it doesn't. If you are trying to *snap out* Pushes, any movement by your target can cause it to screw up. Part of my compensation is to actually be moving myself when I do it, and in roughly the opposite direction I am trying to Push them. I hope that made sense. It does happen to Pull as well, just not as often. Pull has its own problems, like hooking people on edges, causing them to fall down, that kind of thing. I didn't really say much about Charge in my previous post - if I can help it, I tend to not Charge anyone that can Vanish, because it causes problems. I don't mean that as black-and-white as it sounds, because I'm still going to Charge. What I'm saying is that given a choice, I might choose a target that doesn't have that capability. Intercede has the same problems too - I won't forget the first Huttball game that I tried to be Johnny Awesome early on, and Intercede the Assassin as he hit Speed and ran through the acid pit. Yeah, it doesn't work so well when people are moving, and even less well when they are under Speed. I bugged the Soa encounter the very same way. Riôt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlanon Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) Retaliation mostly works now. Occasionally it will still trigger GCD and mess up your rotation, but at least it doesn't just make you stand there jerking around anymore. Im not a computer expert or anything but it seems like the server is detecting the player and myself at different positions to what i see on screen I live with my brother, and our computers are next to each other. When we are riding around on our little space scooters, we are NEVER in the same place on both screens. Where one character will appear to be ahead of, or to the side of the other character, on the other one's screen they will be BEHIND them instead. Character locations are screwed, especially when they are in motion. I believe this is the root of Push's problems. Edited April 12, 2012 by Arlanon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryca Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 There are situations where i want to use my force push to knockback someone into a fire pit or poison pit (whatever the green stuff is in hutball) but force push acts so wonky. Sometimes i force push someone and my opponent goes flying sideways or straight into the goal line in hutball. In order to compensate for this i have to wait a few secs before force pushing but pvp is fast paced and sometimes you dont have a few secs It is just as hard to deal with for the guy fighting you. Plenty of times I know they want to force push me somewhere and try to adjust my positioning accordingly but in the end I just go flying in some random direction that seems to have no corelation to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashoverridex Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) sadly i think ill be dropping the juggernaut and rerolling an assassin tank until they can fix this issue with the server not detecting the right position of players. force push is the easiest ability to use to see the problem but juggernauts also have force charge, obliterate, and smash where this problem can be clearly seen. Some people are saying they can sometimes avoid smash damage from juggers and indeed there are instances where ive used smash when im right next to or on top of a moving target but no damage is done. once again juggers have to compensate for this issue by wasting a gcd to use their slow. Edited April 13, 2012 by crashoverridex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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