Danapa Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Hi,since the new pvp gear gives a lot more shield chance and absorb rating and ive heard the cap or softcap for those stats are 50% will the cap be upgraded in 1.2? i ask this because right now i can get almost to the cap with the pvp s.chance relic so if those caps still the same the relic will be useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc_Gregor Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Im at 52% shield chance in my regular gear and about 58% chance with relic running so I must say I didnt noticed any cap on normal servers atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibiza-Vin Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 The cap for shield and absorption is 50% just from rating. So that's not including the 5% shield chance or the 20% absorption from the actual shield. (Or whatever other talents/skills increase those chances). Because of diminishing returns, you'll get less benefit from a shield trinket at 400 shield rating than when you have 200. But you still won't' hit the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashalo Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Because of diminishing returns, you'll get less benefit from a shield trinket at 400 shield rating than when you have 200. That's a misconception that happens a lot in games. Diminishing returns may give you less of an additive benefit, but most diminishing-returns formulae are designed to give nearly identical multiplicative benefits for every point put into it. What this means is that while you may only see yourself going from 50% to 51% absorb, you think you're only reducing the incoming damage of shielded attacks by 1% (the additive delta), but you're actually reducing it by 2% (multiplicative delta). The best way to think of it is to get rid of the percent signs and base everything on 100 melee swings of 100 damage (after armor, in this case, to make absorb calculations easier). If you absorb 50%, you're absorbing 50 damage. That's pretty straightforward. So if you increase absorption from 50 to 51, that's a difference of 1 damage, which is 2% of 50. The sole reason for this is so that avoidance and mitigation stats don't get increasingly stronger as you gain more of them, but that they stay relatively equal in value. The same difference in percentage of absorption above only reduces your damage intake by 1% when you had 0, but 2% at 50. Blizzard made the mistake of not applying diminishing returns to anything other than armor in World of Warcraft prior to their second expansion, which allowed druids and rogues to achieve >100% avoidance, giving them immunity to all avoidable, physical damage. I'm not sure of the exact diminishing-returns formula used in SWTOR, but I feel it's safe to assume that they follow this reasoning, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc_Gregor Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 That's a misconception that happens a lot in games. Diminishing returns may give you less of an additive benefit, but most diminishing-returns formulae are designed to give nearly identical multiplicative benefits for every point put into it. What this means is that while you may only see yourself going from 50% to 51% absorb, you think you're only reducing the incoming damage of shielded attacks by 1% (the additive delta), but you're actually reducing it by 2% (multiplicative delta). The best way to think of it is to get rid of the percent signs and base everything on 100 melee swings of 100 damage (after armor, in this case, to make absorb calculations easier). If you absorb 50%, you're absorbing 50 damage. That's pretty straightforward. So if you increase absorption from 50 to 51, that's a difference of 1 damage, which is 2% of 50. The sole reason for this is so that avoidance and mitigation stats don't get increasingly stronger as you gain more of them, but that they stay relatively equal in value. The same difference in percentage of absorption above only reduces your damage intake by 1% when you had 0, but 2% at 50. Blizzard made the mistake of not applying diminishing returns to anything other than armor in World of Warcraft prior to their second expansion, which allowed druids and rogues to achieve >100% avoidance, giving them immunity to all avoidable, physical damage. I'm not sure of the exact diminishing-returns formula used in SWTOR, but I feel it's safe to assume that they follow this reasoning, as well. Im quoting Your whole post because its extremly important that every tank is aware of this. Of course there are some diminishing returns to make you stack other stats rather than just one but everyone should keep in mind those simple numbers on percentages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogashi Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 While the above is true, deminishing returns does make sure you want to balance your stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsenalJaycen Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 How are you guys reaching the shield / absorb caps as I am struggling to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaigen Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 As far as I'm aware, it's not possible to hit shield/absorb caps with current gearing. Even when my absorb proc relic is active, I only get up to about 34% absorb from rating (plus about 32% from base absorb and additive bonuses), when the cap is 50% absorb from rating. One thing to keep in mind with the "diminishing returns" is that shield and absorb are tied together in terms of effectiveness. Normally adding more shield rating would be my lowest priority (you get so much of it without even trying anyway), but when my proc relic is active my absorb is so high that additional shield rating goes from being the lowest contributor to the highest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmancreeping Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 How are you guys reaching the shield / absorb caps as I am struggling to do so. Id like to know how these guys are hitting 50%ish too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashalo Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) While the above is true, deminishing returns does make sure you want to balance your stats. This depends entirely on the diminishing-returns formula used. If the equation indicates that the multiplicative delta of damage taken stays the same for each point of rating, it isn't necessary to balance your stats since the value of that stat never changes. However, if the multiplicative delta slowly decreases, then you are right; for every level of each rating, there will always be one that is strongest. I have a hunch, though, that the values of each one would be close enough not to matter unless you're favoring one pretty heavily. Has anyone published the formulae for defensive stats, including diminishing returns? I'd like to play around with them. Edited April 18, 2012 by Nashalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanzas Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 so what does this mean in lamens terms??? see my BH is at 41% shield rating and 43% absorb soon to be 47% with augmented crit crafted gear. with my 405 absorb relic that passivle procs it will net me approx 19%ish absorb plus the 14% from 4 stacks of heat screen. so about 80% absorb when its all said and done with the relic poppin while having 41% rating. is this bad? i find it to work MARVELOUSLY myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanzas Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) :wea_02: Edited April 24, 2012 by Bonanzas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashalo Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 so what does this mean in lamens terms??? see my BH is at 41% shield rating and 43% absorb soon to be 47% with augmented crit crafted gear. with my 405 absorb relic that passivle procs it will net me approx 19%ish absorb plus the 14% from 4 stacks of heat screen. so about 80% absorb when its all said and done with the relic poppin while having 41% rating. is this bad? i find it to work MARVELOUSLY myself. Hover over your absorb amount in your character window. Check only the section of the tooltip that pertains to rating (not anything from skills/talents/buffs). If that value reaches 50%, you're capped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlosBC Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Id like to know how these guys are hitting 50%ish too... Get rid of ****tily itemized rakata enhancements. Best ones before denova drop out of HM ev and kp, can be found once in a while on the GTN if you're lucky. I currently sit at 51% absorb, BEFORE the 8% from heat screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uggliey Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yank out those accuracy enhancements and toss in something better. As a hold-over until something better drops, you can grind out the daily H2 on Ilum for a better enhancement. It's not "great" but a hell of a lot better than stacking a useless stat in it's place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crixaliss Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Yeah, get rid of the enhancements with all that excessive accuracy, and swap them out for ones with Shield/Absorb or Shield/Defense. Can take them from other gear pieces with better itemization, get a lucky enhancement drop from an OP, or even buy them off the GTN (they're like 300-400k a piece on my server, but I guess thats not really an impossible amount to spend with how easy money comes by in this game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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