My Thoughts on the SWTOR Hate

[Obiwansghost]

You both read wrong.

 

I stated none MMO launched without at least one feature from my list but TOR.

 

And seeing how the servers are dead and there's not even end content I rest pretty much convinced TOR fails as an MMO. There's not even World PvP. See.

 

(Edit: I admit I added some features that would have only worked in TOR ex: same gender romance)

 

No, I read it right.

 

BTW TOR is the only MMO I know of that launched without any of the above features.

It fails as a MMO.

 

You did not say without at least one feature. You said any. Moving on.

[Gungan]

No, I read it right.

 

BTW TOR is the only MMO I know of that launched without any of the above features.

It fails as a MMO.

 

You did not say without at least one feature. You said any. Moving on.

 

Not having any of those features implies not having at least one. If he meant all, he would have said all.

 

There are two ways to interpret the statement he made (your way and his way), and they're both correct.

 

It was simply unclear. The end.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Gungan

[Deewe]

Not having any of those features implies not having at least one. If he meant all, he would have said all.

 

There are two ways to interpret the statement he made (your way and his way), and they're both correct.

 

It was simply unclear. The end.

He he thx for the highlight that was indeed my statement.

 

Always good to improve my English!

 

Appreciated.

[Obiwansghost]

He he thx for the highlight that was indeed my statement.

 

Always good to improve my English!

 

Appreciated.

 

Ah, well. I looked at it again and there are two ways to comprehend your statement. No offense intended.

[Deewe]

Ah, well. I looked at it again and there are two ways to comprehend your statement. No offense intended.

/deep_bow

[Mezla]

Pretty sure this whole topic was created so someone could just plug his Youtube video to get more than 10 hits.

[Captiosus]

FWIW, comparing SWG and TOR is silly from the start since they were both designed very different to appeal to different audiences in different time frames.

 

That said, TOR shouldn't really even be classified as an MMO. It's lacking far too many features to fit in the genre and I am hard pressed to think of any MMO in the last 8 years that has been as prohibitive regarding grouping as TOR.

 

The fact that they walled off story content all but ensured people wouldn't group much during leveling because unless you create groups of the same class everyone can only stay grouped for limited times before the group blows apart so people can do their class/story missions. Finding groups for heroic quests and flashpoints is like pulling teeth because the infrastructure is absolutely horrendous for finding people; I don't necessarily mean the lack of a LFD queue but just the core components of the game (chat channels, for example, completely suck for trying to find people, and flagging LFG puts an icon that's nearly impossible to see but little else).

 

Just because the interface looks like an MMO doesn't mean it's an MMO. Plenty of other games have ripped off MMO style interfaces and "talent trees" but remained either single player or small coop games. An MMO, to me, implies three things exist in a relatively stable balance: Exploration, Social, and Content. Exploration in TOR is non-existent because the game is basically Mass Effect 2/3 style "hallway worlds" with little to see, and large parts walled off by class quest divisions, while space is just point, click, you're there. Content is decent, but because the worlds are so damned linear and with so many non-class quests being the same, it gets boring REALLY fast after one or two classes on the same faction. Social, as I've already lamented, is terrible. Grouping during level is almost actively discouraged, which is a lousy way to design an MMO since the entire leveling process is supposed to help people learn how to play their class both alone and in groups - but as it stands people are getting to max level and jumping into groups and have no earthly clue how to play in a group environment. And, of course, server populations are in the tank.

 

I know this is all hypercritical but TOR fails on the most basic levels of being an MMO. It's 50 levels of single player with tacked on MMO elements and a sad "end game". At least in SWG I felt like I was part of a community while I was playing. In TOR, I feel like I'm on my own if I'm playing anything that ISN'T level 50 or on a server designated as "very high" population.

[Cerion]

Required pet classes for solo play (normal mode)

 

17/16

 

No pet classes for multiplayer game play (aka full groups)

 

16/16

 

Jedi in Hutt ball & glow bats

15/16

 

Animal mounts

15/17

 

Great choice of space ships

15/18

 

Endless player driven content

15/19 (Could have removed 1 for TOR lack of end content)

 

World that feels like a world not a graveyard

14/19 (already added one before but TOR deserves less 1 on the setting)

 

20 players made groups wihout need to be of the same level to enjoy the content(pre-cu)

14/20

 

Space sim

13/20 (already added 1 to SWG but you are right TOR deserves a minus 1 on that lacklustre feature)

 

LDS/DS

12/21 (Does not even deserves a point regarding how it was implemented and in SW you could actually be dark sided

 

And as you're venting on day one here's a small reminder of what was not in TOR at launch:

 

• Swimming
  
• Third party addons
  
• Minigames
  
• Dual spec
  
• Day/night cycles
  
• Non humanoid based playable races
  
• Multiplayer space content
  
• 3d space combat
  
• Choice of space ship chassis
  
• Decoration mechanic for personal ships
  
• Planetary housing
  
• Pod & Swoop racing
  
• Player bounties
  
• Companions in Warzones
  
• Companion Deaths
  
• Animal based pet classes
  
• same-gender romance arcs
  
• Resources for crafting does not have quality
  
• Guild leveling system (cf WAR)
  
• Animal mounts
  
• Flying mounts
  
• Large (20vs20 - or more) multiplayer PvP Warzones
  
• World PvP
  
• PvP Arenas
  
• Collision detection between characters
  
• UI Addons
  
• Macros
  
• Barber / Image Designer
  
• Appearance tabs
  
• Fishing
  
• Guild "Tabard"
  
• Multiplayer mounts
  
• Gear Dyes
  
• Shared storage bank slots
  
• In game voice chat
  
• LFG tool
  
• Guild bank
  

 

BTW TOR is the only MMO I know of that launched without any of the above features.

It fails as a MMO.

 

I see you completely missed the point of my thread...not surprising. So I'll make it real clear:

 

Anybody can pick and choose narrowly focused 'features' and then ascribe them a completely arbitrary number in order to create a fake game score. You want to take it seriously, whilst I was making fun of you.

[Rzacron]

 

The major difference I see between the two games is the position it puts the player in. In the SWTOR storylines, you become the main character. The loyal hero, the conflicted warrior (if there are those who follow in the footsteps of Anakin Skywalker), even the skilled and well-trained spy. In SWG, it places the player in the much more freelance position of an "extra" from the movies, such as the Bounty Hunter in the back of Jabba's Palace, the Entertainer working in the Mos Eisley Cantina, or even a surviving Jedi, trying to hide his Force Sensitivity behind nondescript robes and inexpensive housing. Both these "Walks of life" appeal to two types of people.

 

 

My main beef. I loved the idea of being the freelance pilot in the background, it felt real and promoted Immersion. SWTOR is ok but I dont like the idea of being the greatest Sith in the Galaxy.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

TOR fails on the most basic levels of being an MMO. It's 50 levels of single player with tacked on MMO elements and a sad "end game". At least in SWG I felt like I was part of a community while I was playing. In TOR, I feel like I'm on my own if I'm playing anything that ISN'T level 50 or on a server designated as "very high" population.

 

Agree to that 100%

 

Besides, isn´t it funny how people neglect facts if someone does a simple checklist, a feature list comparison between two games, which goes beyond "game X is great because I say so, game Y sucks, because I say so".

 

Guess they do not even read and compare because some like to neglect obvious facts.

 

Indeed, for SWTOR it comes all together and even makes sense in concept, if you realize that it isn´t an MMO but a single player game with four co-op modes called "Flashpoint", "Warzone", "Heroic 2/4" and "Operation".

 

I predict "Space" will be another instance you "beam" yourself into a pilot seat, shoot some fighters PvP, get a loading screen and you´re back on some planet afterwards.

 

It will never be an explorable, open world universe with actual player population.

 

End of story.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[GreySix]

In every MMO Forum, the other MMO is always better.

 

In the Army we like to say that the worst post is the one to which you're currently assigned, and the best post is the one you're reporting to next.

[CorellianWannabe]

I think that a lot of hate does come from people who dont understand why things are how they are.

 

Best example is the FPS issue bandwagon or the cant find a group topic.

 

Both things are user generated, yet people dont want to see this and blame BW.

 

Right-fps has NOTHING to do with the game engine at all. Finding a group just means spamming general and whispering people that don't respond.

[CorellianWannabe]

In the Army we like to say that the worst post is the one to which you're currently assigned, and the best post is the one you're reporting to next.

 

So going to the front lines in Afghanistan is better than being stuck on a base in Oklahoma?

[Holden_Dissent]

I guess not enough people flagged that one guy's post as agenda spam. Edited April 11, 2012 by Holden_Dissent

[GreySix]

So going to the front lines in Afghanistan is better than being stuck on a base in Oklahoma?

 

Meh, my original response was deleted for being "political" though I didn't see it. Suffice it to say, I've been deployed to a theater of combat twice, and yes, deployment to a theater of combat can be better than where one is.

[WoodChipper]

OMGGGGG!!! SWTOR SUX!!! IT IS NOT L33T LIKE SWG WAS!!!! WHY ISNT SWTOR PERFECT?!?!?!!?!?!?

 

Thats what most of the haters sound like to me.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

OMGGGGG!!! SWTOR SUX!!! IT IS NOT L33T LIKE SWG WAS!!!! WHY ISNT SWTOR PERFECT?!?!?!!?!?!?

 

Thats what most of the haters sound like to me.

 

You hear these voices while you read a forum thread? Is that what simple feature comparisons do to you? Spooky....

[Deewe]

Agree to that 100%

 

Besides, isn´t it funny how people neglect facts if someone does a simple checklist, a feature list comparison between two games, which goes beyond "game X is great because I say so, game Y sucks, because I say so".

 

Guess they do not even read and compare because some like to neglect obvious facts.

 

Indeed, for SWTOR it comes all together and even makes sense in concept, if you realize that it isn´t an MMO but a single player game with four co-op modes called "Flashpoint", "Warzone", "Heroic 2/4" and "Operation".

 

I predict "Space" will be another instance you "beam" yourself into a pilot seat, shoot some fighters PvP, get a loading screen and you´re back on some planet afterwards.

 

It will never be an explorable, open world universe with actual player population.

 

End of story.

Pretty much this and not even the feeling the world is alive with wandering npc, changing weather or day/night cycles nor critters.

 

TOR is a fine Single player co-op online game but it fails as a MMO.

 

Example: one of the core roots for MMO is gear grinding and they don't even get that right. Not only the end gear is far from appealing but also the instance and raids does not gives you better gear than what you can find in the world drops.

[bionamaster]

If the posters here would be so kind as to refer to the first few and last few lines of my post. The general idea isn't to inflame a thread. Some people will enjoy TOR more then SWG, that's fine. I was hoping we could respect each other for it. SWTOR is not a game like SWG, it's a different take on Star Wars. It's trying to please a different audience. For those of you who enjoyed SWG but not TOR: There is a new version of SWG in beta right now, I believe. It should have all those features, so you can check it out. It's called SWGEMU, I think, I saw it posted in these forums somewhere. Thus, we can live side by side, in our diffent games, connected by the all-powerful interne-uh, Force lol. So, let's all get along

[thornka]

That SWG beta is fanmade project without the kind of speed/work you can expect from full blown developers.

 

There would be less people upset if SWG was not killed to make way for this game.

 

That said, I do agree with this game feeling lifeless. Watching the same NPCs just stand in place, even "guards" not even attacking mobs I'm running away from just makes it feel like they are just cardboard stand ins.

 

No day or night cycle doesn't help either.

 

And if you're on any server but Fatman or the other 3 heavies, good luck doing any flashpoints at your level.

[mattgyver]

If the posters here would be so kind as to refer to the first few and last few lines of my post. The general idea isn't to inflame a thread. Some people will enjoy TOR more then SWG, that's fine. I was hoping we could respect each other for it. SWTOR is not a game like SWG, it's a different take on Star Wars. It's trying to please a different audience. For those of you who enjoyed SWG but not TOR: There is a new version of SWG in beta right now, I believe. It should have all those features, so you can check it out. It's called SWGEMU, I think, I saw it posted in these forums somewhere. Thus, we can live side by side, in our diffent games, connected by the all-powerful interne-uh, Force lol. So, let's all get along

 

I respect this idea. But I am going to continue to respectfully ask for features that may seem like they are from SWG. I have invested over $350.00 into this game as of this month, and I can't just cut my losses at this point. I have hope for this game.

[bionamaster]

I respect this idea. But I am going to continue to respectfully ask for features that may seem like they are from SWG. I have invested over $350.00 into this game as of this month, and I can't just cut my losses at this point. I have hope for this game.

 

That's fine. With MMO games, it's always good for the community to post their ideas.

[sambeta]

Interesting perspective OP. Though I will say as someone who is used to this setting and time period (an avid player of the KOTOR series) I will say this much. The way the story plays out ignores some of the lore started by the first two games. For me that spoils a few things, takes away from the immersion experience and very rarely do you get sling backs to the original two games to find out what happened to the characters you played the stories you loved (Unless you play the sith stories there are lots of references to Reven, Bastila and the Exile) .

 

These stories are available in other medias but I'll get back to that point later.

 

In terms of immersion SWG was great at making you feel a part of the star wars universe, because most importantly the galaxy you played in felt like it was struggling and fit with the time period. It did have flaws but it still succeeded in completely involving you in the universe.

 

In TOR the story doesn't really draw on the elements of warfare or even a fragile truce. Even after the truce breaks it still feels like a very laid back war, that is until you get to Balmorra on the Republic side of things. It completely neglects this feeling of war. SWG had a feeling of a struggle between the Empire and the Rebellion, remember it was never all out warfare, it was skirmishes ad smaller battles at least until the final battle. TOR is supposed to be all out destruction, battles between Sith and Jedi which we see in the cutscenes.

 

Now on to the other media I mentioned. In the books based between these times, they still maintain a feeling of what's going on, Revans struggle and the like. The first KOTORs setting sat perfectly, you felt like you were on the quest of discovery, learning and later the feeling of being hunted.

 

The story and setting in TOR just doesn't sit in the context of which it tries to set.

Edited April 14, 2012 by sambeta

[Cancrizans]

Damnit I misread the title and thought this was going to be about hats in SWTOR.

[Lunazen]

Agree to that 100%

 

... it isn´t an MMO but a single player game with four co-op modes called "Flashpoint", "Warzone", "Heroic 2/4" and "Operation". [...] It will never be an explorable, open world universe with actual player population.

 

I like the game, but this is where my "hate" lies. It's not that I want SWTOR to be SWG. I just want it to be an MMORPG...and it isn't.