My Thoughts on the SWTOR Hate

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Aaaaand that's where the discussion ends for me.

 

I appreciate the candid tone of this post, and I get where you're coming from, but this is exactly why so many of us here have a problem with comparing SWG to SWTOR. They are not the same game and were never meant to be. In fact, the version of SWG you played is closer to this game than what it started off as.

 

Then I have to try the Pre-CU version on SWGEMU, but if it does not include Jump To Lightspeed I am also not very interested. I spent about half the time in space combat and mining, other half exploring the huge planets, collect stuff in my Jawa sandcrawler house, meeting players and looking for crafting parts and materials.

 

If TOR adds some of the features of SWG I might really enjoy hanging around in this game. Right now I´m just bored by it and hope upcoming games are more entertaining on release.

[Bluerodian]

So, you assume that everyone who disliked SWG didn't finish the tutorial.

 

Well done, sir. Way to ignore everything that has been said so far about how unpolished a turd SWG was on launch, and how terribly they ruined it when NGE hit.

 

I noticed that you have said nothing about the "re-vamp" yourself. Did you enjoy having all your hard work erased and replaced by a one-dimentional, single-class, piece of crap MMO where the problems with combat and content persisted?

 

I mean, you're a fan of SWG to the extent that you acknowledge none of its massive faults while whining about how terrible SWTOR is on the SWTOR forums. It all seems a bit trollish and one-sided, wouldn't you agree?

 

If not, please, enlighten us regarding what you did when the game got messed up?

 

I'll answer this one myself, because I was there for the revamp. The combat system in Pre-CU was god awful, which is why I stuck primarily with crafting, first as a weaponsmith when Rodians had a bonus to it. Later as a Shipwright. When the Cu and later NGE hit, I was mostly unchanged. Yes, I was in a level-based system, but the schematics and processes for shipwrights were mostly unchanged.

 

Still, I was angry about the changed, just like everyone else, and I left the game for a time. Went to other games like WoW, played it for a while and didn't like it. In that time servers on SWG were merged and I had lost my account information from kettemoor. Still, found WoW lacking and went back to SWG to see what was what and start over.

 

Combat was still atrocious so again I stuck with crafting. I found leveling a crafter in the new system to be little more than a formality. The hard work showed up when trying to form a business, make ties, and start producing a useful product. Structures trader at that point so still a shipwright with the added benefit of being able to make housing and furniture. Again, Shipwright was mostly unchanged as far as the crafting went, so I returned to it easily enough.

 

Rolled a Jedi for giggles. I thought having so many around was a little odd, but ignored it. Went through this whole legacy quest that SOE put in. Found it very wow like. I ended up using my Jedi mostly for the purpose of RP and being my pilot for space, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

 

The game still had deep flaws, but despite those flaws I enjoyed it. TOR was announced and I looked it over. Saw it was a WoW knock-off and thought it might be fun as a distraction. At this time assurances were lobbed that both games would coexist from both LA and SOE, so I was fine with it and would have happily played both. Kept up with TOR and continued to play SWG. Had to leave SWG again due to real life reasons which are no one's business but mine. I managed to get back to SWG just in time for the shutdown notice, and that's when the real bitterness set in.

 

So, despite its flaws I preferred SWG over TOR, even after the NGE fiasco. The primary reason being the amount of freedom I had in SWG to just go and do as I pleased. The secondary reason being that it was NOT World of Warcraft. Had both been allowed to coexist I would probably be playing both, with more emphasis on SWG, and not be such an angry person about it.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

People hate SWTOR because we were promised much more and expected at least an improvement over the previous game, not a regression in almost every aspect.

 

That wraps up the topic for me.

[Blistrich]

People hate SWTOR because we were promised much more and expected at least an improvement over the previous game, not a regression in almost every aspect.

SWG is not the predecessor of SWTOR.

 

Christ, how many times does this have to be said? If you thought in any way, shape, or form, that SWTOR was supposed to be based on/an advanced version of SWG, then you weren't paying attention at all to what was going on.

 

This is not SWG2. It never was intended to be and it never will be. No features from SWG were included in SWTOR, because they are not (and were not designed to be) at all similar. Unlike Everquest and Everquest 2, one is not a sequel to the other.

 

And Raven, again, I get where you're coming from. Elements of this game don't appeal to you because you were hoping for something else. As a general rule, and I recommend this for everyone, never play a new game with expectations and never assume that the state said game is in (SWTOR is in vanilla) will remain that way. I suggest staying tuned and seeing how post 1.2 goes. Perhaps it won't be until the first expansion that you begin to see new stuff that you like, but it might be worth the wait.

 

So, despite its flaws I preferred SWG over TOR, even after the NGE fiasco. The primary reason being the amount of freedom I had in SWG to just go and do as I pleased. The secondary reason being that it was NOT World of Warcraft. Had both been allowed to coexist I would probably be playing both, with more emphasis on SWG, and not be such an angry person about it.

Good post and a valid point. I hope that this game evolves in a way that it begins to appeal to you more.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Blistrich

[Jederix]

Ok, tell my about your SWG-vet history.

There is no SWG-vet I know of who is satisfied with the direction TOR has taken, perhaps you can enlighten us?

 

Luckily, your numbers are miniscule among the playerbase.

[Blistrich]

I played SWG until they changed it, and I like TOR. It's easy-going fun. I like the stories, the cinematics, the ease of play... maybe because I've played insanely complicated games like EVE for the past 4 years and this is a welcome shift to a less intense gaming experience.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

I'll answer this one myself, because I was there for the revamp. The combat system in Pre-CU was god awful, which is why I stuck primarily with crafting

 

yep, same here

 

Went to other games like WoW, played it for a while and didn't like it.

+1

 

Rolled a Jedi for giggles. I thought having so many around was a little odd, but ignored it.

In TOR I´m surprised if I see someone who is not running around with a lightsaber. At least on my server. Too bad that becoming a force user is just a selection screen.

 

So, despite its flaws I preferred SWG over TOR, even after the NGE fiasco. The primary reason being the amount of freedom I had in SWG to just go and do as I pleased. The secondary reason being that it was NOT World of Warcraft. Had both been allowed to coexist I would probably be playing both, with more emphasis on SWG, and not be such an angry person about it.

 

/thread signed

[Fredcat]

I don't know what point you're trying to make. There are WAY more differences then your examples. In fact the two games have nothing in common at all except the Star Wars IP.

 

And I don't get the feeling most of the hate is coming from ex SWG players, seems to be ex WOW players to me. Just watch the general chat on a full server like Fatman, all they talk about is friggin WOW. It's actually astounding there are no GM's moding general on that server considering the mods are so heavy handed on this site. The arguments get very heated and offensive often, like every night in fleet.

 

And for the record, SWG was superior in every way except voice acting, they sure as hell didn't have empty servers because people were bored 3 months after release. The character creation and crafting system alone had more depth then this entire game. Too bad they pissed off their entire playerbase with the CU. Eliminating classes is a sure fire way to get people to unsub.

[-Alma-]

swtor has come in for a lot of flack mainly (IMHO) as result of being released too soon. As a result, expectations havnt been met (lets face it, the hype was massive with all the pre-release cgi movies and what not), and the apparent lack of staple mmo features dampens the enthusiasm at times. Heres hoping bioware plugs in the holes sooner rather than later as they have a half-decent product to work from.

[Reico]

And for the record IMO, SWG was superior in every way except voice acting, they sure as hell didn't have empty servers because people were bored 3 months after release. The character creation and crafting system alone had more depth then this entire game. Too bad they pissed off their entire playerbase with the CU. Eliminating classes is a sure fire way to get people to unsub.

 

People were unsubbing long before the CU/NGE, that is the main reason for the changes.

 

Also fixed your quote.

[AlphaBraddox]

Bio stepped in it when they expected players to be content with playing alts instead of offering a deep end game experience. For me its all of the little things between RAIDing and PVP mode and with TOR there is nothing! Oh what? Am I supposed to play an alt...ok, I refuse to go the way of the lemmings. Stand around the Fleet Galaxy trader to look at cr ap?!? Nope, not my thing.

 

Other faults aside from lacking end-game PVP/WorldPVP is little guild support. No guild cities?!? Really?!? OK, I will put effort into crafting...wait, that sux! What else to do? OK I guess I can spam to find a PVE RAID or group instance, fine...few weeks go by. Lets do same old PVE instances since there is nothing else to do. That got boring ASAP and server pop lower making groups not as easy as to build as before...sigh.

 

Got it space combat! Yeah lets get into that. Oh, space on rails and no faction vs faction space PVP....yawn. What to do? What to do? Got it!

 

Post what I hate about SWTOR and be called a troll for it. Yeah, that'll do for now....

[lineschmidt]

Bio stepped in it when they expected players to be content with playing alts instead of offering a deep end game experience. For me its all of the little things between RAIDing and PVP mode and with TOR there is nothing! Oh what? Am I supposed to play an alt...ok, I refuse to go the way of the lemmings. Stand around the Fleet Galaxy trader to look at cr ap?!? Nope, not my thing.

 

Other faults aside from lacking end-game PVP/WorldPVP is little guild support. No guild cities?!? Really?!? OK, I will put effort into crafting...wait, that sux! What else to do? OK I guess I can spam to find a PVE RAID or group instance, fine...few weeks go by. Lets do same old PVE instances since there is nothing else to do. That got boring ASAP and server pop lower making groups not as easy as to build as before...sigh.

 

Got it space combat! Yeah lets get into that. Oh, space on rails and no faction vs faction space PVP....yawn. What to do? What to do? Got it!

 

Post what I hate about SWTOR and be called a troll for it. Yeah, that'll do for now....

Not even picard can do a facepalm massive enough for that post

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

I read a wonderful comment on the blog of the SWG developer Dan Rubenfeld.

 

http://rubenfield.com/?p=86&cpage=6#comment-694

 

 

"Book Reviews" wrote:

"I am revisiting this due to old wounds being resurrected via the ***** **** that is SWTOR. SWG had so much more to offer than this game, and it was made almost 10 years before it! Put simply, you could never turn SWTOR into SWG, but you could easily turn SWG into SWTOR"

 

And the last line is the simple truth. There were great elements in SWG, and there were trash elements in SWG, like the poor animations and the catastrophic combat. Starting from scratch with a SWG2/TOR concept would have been inevitable.

 

But devs tend to throw the baby out with the bathwater and like to "do everything differently" than game X, because it did not have enough subscribers, so everything must have been wrong about it.

 

The core concept of SWG could have been combined with all the great things which are in TOR, like the Class Quests, the Flashpoints, Warzones, the Voiceovers, The Stories, The Datacrons - why not?

SWG core concept = downwards compatible to everything that TOR is right now.

TOR core concept = not upwards compatible to what SWG was.

 

Did they have to substitute an explorable free roam universe (done in 9 months by the way!) by a Starfox rail shooter? Simplify the crafting to complete boredom? Create linear corridor planets with streets everywhere instead of open worlds? Take away housing and player cities? Seperating the subscribers to countless servers and instances, so you end up with 9 people on a planet like Tattooine? Seriously... I guess they decided to hate everything that SWG was and embraced everything that WoW is, that was the agenda, and I still say it was wrong and the concept needs to be improved in future updates. My two cents, if you disagree feel free to hate on.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[Nightrode]

The sad thing is both concepts could have worked together with more effort.

Every good idea from SWG has been trashed, end of story. We´ll see if that pays off.

 

Yeah, it's unfortunate that the developers couldn't implement the good designs of other games into their own. It seems every developer has something great and something awful. If they could only mix the two.

[Cerion]

And for the record, SWG was superior in every way except voice acting, they sure as hell didn't have empty servers because people were bored 3 months after release. The character creation and crafting system alone had more depth then this entire game. Too bad they pissed off their entire playerbase with the CU. Eliminating classes is a sure fire way to get people to unsub.

 

 

Nope. And "for the record" as you put it, SWG wasn't superior in every way. The Star Wars feel in SWTOR far and away exceeds what SWG attempted.

 

And the servers were indeed empty. Same crying then and there as we have here and now. People moved to Bria (iirc) just as players move to The Fatman.

[Reico]

So, when the NGE push came along, we were asked to reimagine the game.

 

Not just small changes, but rebuild it.

 

And it was needed. When we were asked, we were bleeding subscribers.

 

If I remember correctly, somewhere around 10k a month. LOSING 10,000

subs a month.

Note – I think our subs were closer to 160-180 than 200k. It was a bad financial situation no matter how you look at it.

 

It was not idyllic. You can remember it as an amazing game, but it wasn’t.

 

Hell, all of you who recall the grand ole days of launch seem to

conveniently forget that everyone quit shortly afterwards.

 

 

 

Why would BW want to copy a design that even the designer says is bad. What they did with the NGE was pretty much copy WoW to stabilize the game.

[Brickabrack]

What I'm not quite seeing is why SWG is brought up at all; it's a dead game. If ex SWG players hate on TOR because it's not like SWG (which I contend is an overly simplistic reduction on the motivations of these people), they shouldn't be directing their anger at TOR or BioWare, who made thier own Star Wars game with a different vision, they should be directing their ire at SOE and Lucas, who failed them.

[Malefactor]

they shouldn't be directing their anger at TOR or BioWare, who made thier own Star Wars game with a different vision, they should be directing their ire at SOE and Lucas, who failed them.

 

^This right here. Even worse though, some on these forums openly admit to being here to cause grief, in effect taking out their anger at SOE and LA on those who had absolutely nothing to do with any of it, SW:TOR players. Not only is it extremely childish, it is entirely misdirected.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

I ask for a responsible reply after you

, starting at 2:10, and tell me I should not be "slightly disappointed" about what we got in TOR, eight years later.

 

 

.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[Jett-Rinn]

Ok, tell my about your SWG-vet history.

There is no SWG-vet I know of who is satisfied with the direction TOR has taken, perhaps you can enlighten us?

 

I can enlighten you.

 

I was a SWG beta tester, and CE holder (gotta love those shades) I still have my lightsaber on my Keychain. I played on SWG/Kettemoor did my holo grind for jedi I left shortly after NGE and came back for a brief time and left again.

 

Comparatively SWTOR is ten times as fun as SWG ever was; I like the direction the game is going and have no plans to leave any time soon. I also find the jilted SWG fan that purchased TOR just to grief on the forums an embarrassment to one of the few decent things about SWG...the community.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

 

And Raven, again, I get where you're coming from. Elements of this game don't appeal to you because you were hoping for something else. As a general rule, and I recommend this for everyone, never play a new game with expectations and never assume that the state said game is in (SWTOR is in vanilla) will remain that way. I suggest staying tuned and seeing how post 1.2 goes. Perhaps it won't be until the first expansion that you begin to see new stuff that you like, but it might be worth the wait.

 

 

absolutely, and I´ll keep an eye on the development updates, I hope the progress goes well.

I want this game to be great for everyone, and since it is still "fresh" I´m hoping my pessimistic view at the moment will be proven wrong.

[Reico]

I can enlighten you.

 

I was a SWG beta tester, and CE holder (gotta love those shades) I still have my lightsaber on my Keychain. I played on SWG/Kettemoor did my holo grind for jedi I left shortly after NGE and came back for a brief time and left again.

 

Comparatively SWTOR is ten times as fun as SWG ever was; I like the direction the game is going and have no plans to leave any time soon. I also find the jilted SWG fan that purchased TOR just to grief on the forums an embarrassment to one of the few decent things about SWG...the community.

 

 

/thread

[Sarfux]

yeah, too bad

 

Trashed SWG, got WoW, what an exchange

 

got wow..lol. ***. Just because an online game has hotkeys and took things from the previous game and capitalized on them and made them better doesn't make it a copy...

 

you want to see a copy of wow? play runes of magic...

 

btw...swg sucked

[Almar]

Haters gonna hate seems to be a good phrase to say here. They always will. Always. SWTOR is doing great with its subs though, I am not worried at all about it going anywhere anytime soon.

[CorellianWannabe]

I long for the days when game forums were places to exchange information and advice rather than sharing opinions. Most forum posts are by people too lazy to create an actual blog (that no one would read).

 

So you felt the need to... share your opinion?