VertisReaper Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) A rated premade team should NEVER be matchmade against an unrated or a solo rated team. How is this even being considered? It is unfair for both teams. Basically you are inflating the rated premade's ELO and giving the solo/unrated players a frustrating pvp experience. No one wins, as a rated premade player I would rather be stuck in queue forever. Implementing the ranked system like this pretty much makes your rating mean absolutely nothing. Please reconsider this... Edited April 4, 2012 by VertisReaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 A rated premade team should NEVER be matchmade against an unrated or a solo rated team. How is this even being considered? It is unfair for both teams. Basically you are inflating the rated premade's ELO and giving the solo/unrated players a frustrating pvp experience. No one wins, as a rated premade player I would rather be stuck in queue forever. Implementing the ranked system like this pretty much makes your rating mean absolutely nothing. Please reconsider this... Whether you like it or not it has to be done or queue times will border on the ridiculous. On my server there are maybe 4 guilds that will field full or near full pre-mades when 1.2 goes live, and they are not all always on at the same time. Until cross server queues come out this is a necessary evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedrumchannell Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Totally agree, 8 man teams should never be matched against anything other than other 8 man teams. If an 8 man team queues and no other 8 man team is available then no match should be created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iandayen Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Totally agree, 8 man teams should never be matched against anything other than other 8 man teams. If an 8 man team queues and no other 8 man team is available then no match should be created. So people should be punished because you say so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorghte Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 The ranking/rating is meaningless anyway since it is just a video game played for fun. People who are desperate enough to crave the false praise heaped on a high rating but aren't skilled enough to actually achieve it will find a way to buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedrumchannell Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 So people should be punished because you say so? Do you honestly feel it's fair to punish an unorganized team by matching them against an organized team in a RATED warzone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontayle Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 This is why we'll be in preseason. They have to check the system against what's already there, and prepare for when cross-server queuing arrives and negates the need for such measures. Low pop servers are already going to feel the pinch and won't advance as well as a server like Fatman. It's a temp solution until the actual resolution gets implemented. Keep in mind that it's a last-ditched result which allows for this to happen. As I understand it, Ranked matches will first look for group matches, then fill in with solo players, before finally pulling from the unranked pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 So why make an unranked queue at all? Most of the matches will have at least some people that are queued for rated wz in them, 8 player premade teams will next to never face another 8 player premade team simply because there will be only few teams per server online at the same time and those will get matched with the first available group by the system. So the unranked queue seems rather useless since you will face people prepared for rated games most of the time anyway. Queueing unranked will make you play in the same games as the people queuing for ranked but without the rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xsorus Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 If you're queued unranked, and you lose, you don't lose anything. However if you're ranked, and you lose to a bunch of unranked players, you lose ranking if you choose to queue as a rank warzone. Personally, If I had a good guild group still playing, i'd troll everyone else by queuing unranked Warfronts with my guild, beat them, and cause them to lose rank, and if we lose, oh well ;o) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 If you're queued unranked, and you lose, you don't lose anything. However if you're ranked, and you lose to a bunch of unranked players, you lose ranking if you choose to queue as a rank warzone. Personally, If I had a good guild group still playing, i'd troll everyone else by queuing unranked Warfronts with my guild, beat them, and cause them to lose rank, and if we lose, oh well ;o) You will not be able to queue with 8 people on your team for unranked. The 8 player premade team will always have an advantage, they will always at the very least have a decent to optimal line up vs random team composition. So overall the premade queuing for ranked will profit simply because they will face players not prepared for ranked matches most of the time. Even with two 8 player premades queuing for ranked matches it will be most likely that both teams end up playing in the solo and/or non-ranked queue simply because their queue times will more likely be out of sync than in sync. This kind of negates the idea of competitive team pvp, since the ranked teams will next to never meet. The premades will just farm non-rated players for rating, kind of not quite the idea behind competitive rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grufftech Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Whether you like it or not it has to be done or queue times will border on the ridiculous. On my server there are maybe 4 guilds that will field full or near full pre-mades when 1.2 goes live, and they are not all always on at the same time. Until cross server queues come out this is a necessary evil. I agree here; Until Xserver queues, its just gonna have to happen. Like no-bracket PVP in the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorizdin Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I can understand the reasoning behind this mechanic. I can remember during Guild Wars season 1 once you got your GvG team into the top 50 you would often wait 30-45 minutes for each match and that sucked. However, I would strongly recommend that a rated team being placed against an unrated be inherently an unrated match. There are way too many ways to cheat the system if these mixed matches impact a team's rating in either direction. tldr; fine if its to relieve queue boredom not fine if it impacts rating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XavinNydek Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) I agree, most people would rather wait longer for a match rather than be forced to play a terrible one where they have zero chance of winning/losing. You will never get a fair match putting coordinated people against a PUG. If I'm queued solo ranked or unranked and a 6-8 man premade shows up on the other side, I'm going to leave out of protest, because that's just a waste of everyone's time. I'd rather keep messing on the AH, browsing the web, or whatever else I was doing. Edited April 4, 2012 by XavinNydek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I can understand the reasoning behind this mechanic. I can remember during Guild Wars season 1 once you got your GvG team into the top 50 you would often wait 30-45 minutes for each match and that sucked. However, I would strongly recommend that a rated team being placed against an unrated be inherently an unrated match. There are way too many ways to cheat the system if these mixed matches impact a team's rating in either direction. tldr; fine if its to relieve queue boredom not fine if it impacts rating The cheaters will just win trade with guild alts at 4.00 in the morning anyway, when they get 80-99% probability to meet the other guild team and can leave on the off chance of meeting another team. This will happen anyway, the real problem is that with teams queued for rated games playing against random solo and /or non-rated pug teams no legit competitive rating will get established for people who are actually interested in such a thing. So again why unranked queues at all? The mix in the actual game will be the same only that you will get no rewards if you queue for unranked wz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorizdin Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) People certainly will try that and smurf guilds and all of the other tricks. IIRC they said they aren't going to start the rated season until cross server queues are in, which will make it much harder to try and queue off hours assuming the Euro and Asia-Pacific servers are all in the same queue. I read this as a way to keep queue times down until they get cross server queues working. Edited April 4, 2012 by thorizdin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimaIdi Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 1) Come play on a lower populated server.....to unfairly punish a great majority of the servers and population is riddiculous, we pay our sub like everyone else. We will be lucky to even get queues except against the same handful of teams for about 2hours a day if that. Most of us are holding out on the promises that are in 1.2, and then that to hold us out until mergers and cross queues. 2) What game have you ever played where "premades" cannot fight "pug teams" I have played AOC, Aion, Warhammer, Pre-BC WoW, Ultima Online, even Runescape out in the Wilderness.... 3)I thought the purpose of joining guilds and an MMO community was to organize and play as group of likeminded individuals to have a more fighting chance at success, should that not be the behavior we encourage, I did not know this was a game for the weak of will. When did we embrace the ignoble idea of running from challenges and not bettering ourselves. I play to get better not to be spoon fed with easy content and competition. 4)To say those who organized and put the time in to achieve success should be penalized due to those who put forth marginal effort is ludicrous, when did we start punishing effort and hardwork? You think we should just baby the weak, what is this warzone welfare? It is Player vs Player, the purpose is clear cut as soon as you engage an opponent, why are you obscuring that. The ELO takes into account the rating of those you fight both in wins and losses, if the system works as intended, you will not have some over inflated rating score or see yours pay the price, the devs developed a great system for a reason, do not mislead others as to its working! I rarely get riled, but this is one of those times. I really hope they do not listen to this OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwrtheyn Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 A rated premade team should NEVER be matchmade against an unrated or a solo rated team. How is this even being considered? It is unfair for both teams. Basically you are inflating the rated premade's ELO and giving the solo/unrated players a frustrating pvp experience. No one wins, as a rated premade player I would rather be stuck in queue forever. Implementing the ranked system like this pretty much makes your rating mean absolutely nothing. Please reconsider this... agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiftHorseman Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Im not sure most people that posted in here really know how the queue system works. Please read up on it, its not as bad as it sounds. Like I said read up on it, and if you still hate it then there ya go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWImara Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I agree here; Until Xserver queues, its just gonna have to happen. Like no-bracket PVP in the beginning. This is a fair comparison. Please do remember that this is the "pre-season" for rated warzones, better a less than perfect system than none I figure. I don't like the idea of rateds being paired against unrated or groups at all but I'm not surprised that this is what we're getting until cross-server PvP arrives :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cupofwater Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I would be 100% fine with this if something was done with server populations and/or cross server queues. Honestly 3/4 of the servers are barely going to be able to do rated pvp matches with 8 people. My server is probably going to have to set up times for ranked pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metanor Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Unless they implement cross server this patch then you re proposition is nothing but stupid--> Just because people can organise themselves (actually put some effort) they should be punished because somobody queueing solo wont have a chance against them?? How about they implement ranked warzones in same way blizzard did in wow? you can't queue unless you re in a grp--> Seems only fair to me since if you wanna find out if you re good in pvp on your own then go down to some dueling area and ask ppl to fight ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Do you honestly feel it's fair to punish an unorganized team by matching them against an organized team in a RATED warzone? Maybe not fair, but it is necessary. Far more subs will be lost by segregating the queues, then will be lost by slowing down pop rates that much. Ive witnessed this happen in a previous game I played. Honestly rated warzones should be about high level competition anyways. If you get rolled by a pre-made, PM the players you were solo queued with in the last game and form your own pre-made. To prevent players who can form more effective groups from benefiting from it in a rated warzone makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDiggy Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 A rated premade team should NEVER be matchmade against an unrated or a solo rated team. How is this even being considered? It is unfair for both teams. Basically you are inflating the rated premade's ELO and giving the solo/unrated players a frustrating pvp experience. No one wins, as a rated premade player I would rather be stuck in queue forever. Implementing the ranked system like this pretty much makes your rating mean absolutely nothing. Please reconsider this... I agree, it should never happen. The reason it is happening, though, is because on servers like mine, Veela, there are only 2 groups (one imp and one pub) that would even be doing ranked WZs with everyone else solo queuing for normal WZs. Without a cross server WZ tool, there simply aren't enough people to sustain two different brackets for pvp. Its colossally stupid to launch ranked WZs without cross server WZs to support it. Basically its par for the course from this company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djhots Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Alot of this issue will be solved once more ppl are queing. Right now on the ptr there is a limited amt of ppl so thus this issue will arise. Once this goes live I would argue that the good teams will quickly rise and it will be not unlike the arena system in wow; where you have say 1% of the game pop battling it out for world wide domination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBladewind Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Alot of this issue will be solved once more ppl are queing. Right now on the ptr there is a limited amt of ppl so thus this issue will arise. Once this goes live I would argue that the good teams will quickly rise and it will be not unlike the arena system in wow; where you have say 1% of the game pop battling it out for world wide domination. Until cross-server is implemented, the top 1% will be stuck with each other every game once the rating sets in ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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