So after leveling a Scoundrel and Op to 50... my thoughts on the state of the class

[hulkweazel]

Question: does the 15% speed increase talent actually work outside of stealth?

It doesn't stack with sprint. You will notice a slight difference while you are in combat.

[Fallenturtle]

It doesn't stack with sprint. You will notice a slight difference while you are in combat.

 

Actually, I haven't noticed it working AT ALL..

 

I get seen 30 meters away by sentinels/marauders. TM/GR spamming mercs, etc.

 

Also, I have tested it out, the movement speed does not work. I had that talent in stealth vs another person who didn't have sprint on (I didn't as well) and he outran me.

[Cwild]

I honestly think giving us a gap closer would make us ridiculously OP. If I had a shadowstep ability this class would be absolutely nuts. The possibilities would be endless because of how much damage we actually do.

 

I think most people don't realize how much damage an operative actually does cause they look at the boards at the end of the match and say "damn that sorc did 400k" what they don't realize is I did 400k also and it was all single target damage. Theres was aoe spread damage.

 

If you were given a gap closer, no one would survive ever, there would be no way for people to get away from you, target swaps would be crazy between a "shadowstep to a healer" to put pressure until hes at 50% stun the healer, switch back to the dps with a vanish HS and boom you win.

 

The only thing we really need, is a immunity knockback of some sort, maybe a passive 5 second immunity after HS or an on use ability on a large cooldown and sever tendon being at least 20m

 

We do a lot of damage guys...I understand the frustrations with huttball but you should still be top of damage, which is all single target damage, and you should be focusing healers which is our utility.

 

There is not one class in this game that will out damage you single target over the course of the match.

 

The nerfs will suck for sure simply because of the 7.5 seconds on HS and the 12s on backstab, but I'm sure we will adapt.

[babykahna]

I honestly think giving us a gap closer would make us ridiculously OP. If I had a shadowstep ability this class would be absolutely nuts. The possibilities would be endless because of how much damage we actually do.

 

I think most people don't realize how much damage an operative actually does cause they look at the boards at the end of the match and say "damn that sorc did 400k" what they don't realize is I did 400k also and it was all single target damage. Theres was aoe spread damage.

 

If you were given a gap closer, no one would survive ever, there would be no way for people to get away from you, target swaps would be crazy between a "shadowstep to a healer" to put pressure until hes at 50% stun the healer, switch back to the dps with a vanish HS and boom you win.

 

The only thing we really need, is a immunity knockback of some sort, maybe a passive 5 second immunity after HS or an on use ability on a large cooldown and sever tendon being at least 20m

 

We do a lot of damage guys...I understand the frustrations with huttball but you should still be top of damage, which is all single target damage, and you should be focusing healers which is our utility.

 

There is not one class in this game that will out damage you single target over the course of the match.

 

The nerfs will suck for sure simply because of the 7.5 seconds on HS and the 12s on backstab, but I'm sure we will adapt.

 

i agree that we dont need a gap closer. at the very most, our cleanse should be able to remove movement impairing effects but thats about it. what will hurt most is the nerfs to HS and BS. if anything those nerfs shouldn't have happened. and the trade off is terribly weak. If they want to nerf HS and BS, the least they could do is give our 31 point skill an upgrade since its so far up the talent tree...yet acid blade remains a terribly weak skill compared to other classes' 31 point skill.

[Cwild]

i agree that we dont need a gap closer. at the very most, our cleanse should be able to remove movement impairing effects but thats about it. what will hurt most is the nerfs to HS and BS. if anything those nerfs shouldn't have happened. and the trade off is terribly weak. If they want to nerf HS and BS, the least they could do is give our 31 point skill an upgrade since its so far up the talent tree...yet acid blade remains a terribly weak skill compared to other classes' 31 point skill.

 

I agree with you that the HS and BS nerfs are ***. I hate them more then the next guy. I do however, think acid blade is incredibly powerful and a very useful tool. It would be sweet if it got the armor reduction boosted back to original form though since we have been changed so much, but I don't agree that it is "terribly" weak.

[babykahna]

I agree with you that the HS and BS nerfs are ***. I hate them more then the next guy. I do however, think acid blade is incredibly powerful and a very useful tool. It would be sweet if it got the armor reduction boosted back to original form though since we have been changed so much, but I don't agree that it is "terribly" weak.

 

the energy cost of is not very reasonable. the fact that you apply it and you may very well get knocked back since most classes can knock you back or stun you while the valuable armor pen ticks away weakens its effectiveness. by the time you actually get to make full use of it, you may only have a few seconds of its duration left. reapplying it takes time and the fact only backstab uses it once you're out of stealth makes it hard since ur gonna try to keep getting around to the back of a person.

 

honestly i'd trade off the poison ticks of acid blade in return for a longer armor penetration + larger amount of armor penetration.

Edited April 4, 2012 by babykahna

[Dcayd]

No to some type of "shadowstep" and the only change I'd like to see for sever is a reduction of cd. If you use it right sever is very powerful. Increasing it's range would mean you just waste the immobilize on a target that will most likely be standing still to get a cast off.

 

I'm more concerned about our dmg mitigation. Even with shield probe up we are squishy as hell, and blowing evasion and vanish to get away means we are screwed for 2 minutes against any team that pays even a small bit of attention.

 

BW wants to trade some of our burst for sustained dmg. That's fine, but we need to be able to stay alive long enough to sustain some damage. Buff shield probe, make evasion work against all abilities ( I only use it as a cleanse anyways), and maybe bake some survivability into other abilities and talents. It wouldn't hurt to increase our speed from 15% to 20-30% either.

[babykahna]

No to some type of "shadowstep" and the only change I'd like to see for sever is a reduction of cd. If you use it right sever is very powerful. Increasing it's range would mean you just waste the immobilize on a target that will most likely be standing still to get a cast off.

 

I'm more concerned about our dmg mitigation. Even with shield probe up we are squishy as hell, and blowing evasion and vanish to get away means we are screwed for 2 minutes against any team that pays even a small bit of attention.

 

BW wants to trade some of our burst for sustained dmg. That's fine, but we need to be able to stay alive long enough to sustain some damage. Buff shield probe, make evasion work against all abilities ( I only use it as a cleanse anyways), and maybe bake some survivability into other abilities and talents. It wouldn't hurt to increase our speed from 15% to 20-30% either.

 

we're meant to be squishy. just like how much squishier sorcs are. i dont mind being squishy if i have that burst as a tradeoff. but i agree. we dont even have a tradeoff. we lose burst and we dont gain survivability. sustained dps does nothing if i cant burn down a sorc before he laughs, knocks me back and runs off. plus sustained dps on an ops is still nothing compared to other dps options in pve. bioware is trying to find a middleground that just isnt working. either convert concealment to a viable pve spec or leave it as a focal pvp spec and force ops to heal in pve. this middle ground rubbish is just hurting our viability in both pvp and pve.

[Dcayd]

we're meant to be squishy. just like how much squishier sorcs are. i dont mind being squishy if i have that burst as a tradeoff. but i agree. we dont even have a tradeoff. we lose burst and we dont gain survivability. sustained dps does nothing if i cant burn down a sorc before he laughs, knocks me back and runs off. plus sustained dps on an ops is still nothing compared to other dps options in pve. bioware is trying to find a middleground that just isnt working. either convert concealment to a viable pve spec or leave it as a focal pvp spec and force ops to heal in pve. this middle ground rubbish is just hurting our viability in both pvp and pve.

 

Agreed. I'd rather be high burst with less survivability, but so long as concealment is viable in pvp I'll be happy. If they break the spec completely I don't know if I'll quit, but I can't really see myself pvping anymore. I have some other characters, but none are as fun in pvp, even though they are all easier to play. I might try sniper though.

[Ryemfoh]

The only thing we really need, is a immunity knockback of some sort, maybe a passive 5 second immunity after HS or an on use ability on a large cooldown and sever tendon being at least 20m

 

I have high hopes for cover in 1.2 ... I haven't seen feedback on the change from anyone on PTS, but if it works the way the patch note suggests (i.e. can't be knocked out of cover) then it might be exactly what we're missing for dealing with knockbacks and pulls.

[Dcayd]

I have high hopes for cover in 1.2 ... I haven't seen feedback on the change from anyone on PTS, but if it works the way the patch note suggests (i.e. can't be knocked out of cover) then it might be exactly what we're missing for dealing with knockbacks and pulls.

 

I can almost guarantee that if we can just sit in cover to avoid knock backs it's not intended for ops and will be nerfed/ made sniper only.

[babykahna]

it'll be hard to time cover anyway...plus it'll get nerfed because then u can just sit in a huttball endzone in cover and enemies cant knock u off while your ball carriers throws the ball to you OR jumps to you.

[Kognos]

No to some type of "shadowstep" and the only change I'd like to see for sever is a reduction of cd. If you use it right sever is very powerful. Increasing it's range would mean you just waste the immobilize on a target that will most likely be standing still to get a cast off.

 

I'm more concerned about our dmg mitigation. Even with shield probe up we are squishy as hell, and blowing evasion and vanish to get away means we are screwed for 2 minutes against any team that pays even a small bit of attention.

 

BW wants to trade some of our burst for sustained dmg. That's fine, but we need to be able to stay alive long enough to sustain some damage. Buff shield probe, make evasion work against all abilities ( I only use it as a cleanse anyways), and maybe bake some survivability into other abilities and talents. It wouldn't hurt to increase our speed from 15% to 20-30% either.

 

The main reason I would like a range increase on sever is that many times if I'm gcd locked a target with force speed is beyond the 10m range by the time I can use it. Especially if it's a sorc with the knockback root. Also mercs with the increased knockback range and built in snare. Asking for a range increase seems like it would be more reasonable than asking for it to be off the gcd.

 

Also, a gap closer would at least make our target dummy damage closer to actual pve fight situations. Our uptime on some fights is pretty dismal if there are multiple targets or run away mechanics which seems to be most of them. My pve time is pretty limited lately but I'm pretty sure the final stage of Soa in EV gave me cancer.

[Gaucho]

You keep harping on the gap closer like

1) that is totally going to fix the game from all perspectives (PvE/PvP of all variations) and 2) will automatically make the Op/Scoundrel completely viable in rated play. What do Mercs/Commandos get to say about their lack of an interrupt and gap closer?

 

Have you even played all three specs of the Op? Do you know what the entirety of the game play is across flashpoints, operations, etc? Outside of being out of range of your target in PvP only, what does your desire for a gap closer achieve?

 

1. how do all the melee classes get back to a fight after a punt or having to back up because of aoe damage? they leap or force speed back in. except for operatives who just run back in losing dps time.

 

2. mercs/commandos have a punt, which is not a gap closer but you have utility at least to remove your targets from any area. not once but you can do it TWICE! no body else can do this.

 

The operatives dont have a punt or utility for that matter.

 

 

-Yes i have played all specs of the OP, also of assassin, also of warrior and Sorc as well.

-Its clear that bioware is going to use mechanics that involves the players removing himself from a location or being punted away. OPeratives do not have a way to quickly move out or return to a fight after a punt. In wow, rogues could sprint or shadowstep back or shamans could pop their wolves and use the sprint they gain, and run back into a fight and since this game is based of WoW, then is a perfect example.

-gap closers achieve the fair combat that all melee classes SHOULD have to balance the kiting a range class can do. By definition, a range will always have the upperhand on a melee class if they have a snare and can kite. it is why warriors have it or assassin, if they dont have gap closers, range would faceroll them all day long.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Gaucho

[babykahna]

we can all hope for a gap closer or a sprint or whatever...but unless we learn to wield lightsabers, bioware is gonna ignore this like they do with everything else. and we stupidly just keep paying them to sit back and enjoy seeing a whole class suffer

 

in all seriousness... shadowstep is a tad too much. no range class would escape. if anything a sprint? but then ops become OP in stuff like huttball where they'd use their sprint to do more than just chase targets...plus bioware wouldn't give us sprint when sorcs already have force speed. i just dont see a middle ground where we would get someting that another class already has..

 

if anything maybe they should give us a skill to get out ofcombat quicker other than vanish so we dont get stuck in combat speed runs as we run back..

[hulkweazel]

1. how do all the melee classes get back to a fight after a punt or having to back up because of aoe damage? they leap or force speed back in. except for operatives who just run back in losing dps time.

I am not disagreeing with you, I just highly doubt BW will just give us a sprint or Shadowstep. Moving around movement speed increase talents achieves the same effect while being much more acceptable. Also, we are not a pure melee class.

 

2. mercs/commandos have a punt, which is not a gap closer but you have utility at least to remove your targets from any area. not once but you can do it TWICE! no body else can do this.

They also don't have the amount of stuns we have. Their knockbacks are really only good in Huttball.

[Dcayd]

Just copy and paste camouflage over to ops, maybe a concealment talent. Then we could use hidden strike a bit more sine our dmg is going down anyway.

 

The more I think about it the more I believe concealment was lacking a lot of thought. They could have easily raised the energy cost of backstab and hidden strike and made acid blade a passive talent. Corrosive dart also could use a talent giving ticks a chance to proc an out of stealth hidden strike on something like a 10s internal cd. Something to mix up our "rotation. " I dont really pve, but I can't imagine concealments rotation or priority list is very complicated, and I only use dart on stealthers and when I'm stuck in combat but out of range.

 

As others have said giving 1 or 2 better ranged abilities would help both in pve when you have target switches and in pvp with knockbacks. Something not strong enough to be worth staying at range, but enough to keep up some pressure. And no, cover doesn't count. ITs way too situational to be a dependable source of damage, and more importantly, doesn't allow you to move.

[Trauglodyte]

My counter to a gap closer is pretty much this:

 

Why does the class truely need it?

 

Do the players think that it is needed SOLELY for Huttball? Or do they need it for everything? My point on the whole gap closer thing is that it sucks when you get pushed back in HB for everyone. BUT, as an Op/Scrapper, it sucks when you get pushed back after opening up period. So, instead of focusing on the gap closer, which we really don't need, let's focus in on reducing the window in which a knock back affects us the most.

[Ahebish]

People complain about the lack of a gap closer way too much. As you said, the only place where it is a problem is in Huttball. And there, we have the same problems as an Merc/Commando when they get knocked down. Would I love to have something like Blizz's reverse Grapple Gun (he actually pulls himself TO the target) but that would be weird and not very Agent like.

 

The only things that I would add are:

 

FIX

- When 10s is up, if you have a stack of 2 TA/UH, it is reduced to 1 instead of losing both (this REALLY pisses me off, especially when I get knocked down in Huttball)

 

GENERAL

- Increased the range of Flash Grenade/Flash Bang to 30m base (remove from Sniper/Gunslinger base ability)

- TA/UH now grants a +5% run speed bonus per

- Remove the "must be out of combat" requirement for Sleep Dart/Tranquilizer (and the Assassin/Shadow equivalents)

 

MEDICINE/SAW BONES

- Remove Precision Instruments/Anatomy Lesson

- Move Sedatives to Tier 1 (replaces Precision Instruments/Anatomy Lessons)

- Add Vanish/Quick Getaway to Tier 3

 

CONCEALMENT/SCRAPPER

- Add "In addition, Hidden Strike/Shoot First has a 50%/100% chance to grant immunity to knock back and movement impairing effects for 4 seconds" to Concealed Attacks/Element Of Surprise - This is pointless. Newsflash we can stunlock someone for 5 seconds strait if they don't have stunbreak up... You don't need this buff and it would serve absolutely no purpose.

 

LETHALITY/DIRTY FIGHTING

- Lethality/No Holds Barred reduces the energy cost of Corrosive Dart/Vital Shot by 1/2/3

- Add Sever Tendon/Tendon Blast to Slip Away/Dirty Escape (and rename the talent to suit the change)

- In addition to its current effect, Lethal Injectors/Open Wound increase the duration of Acid Blade/Flachette Round by 2s (would 4 be pushing it?)

- Add in a TA/UH generator to Lingering Toxins/Nice Try (50%/100% might be too much to ask for, but perhaps not with a cool down of 20s)

 

The base change to the CC grenade is really a qualit of life change to compensate to the fact that our stun is 4m range. As a Lethality Op, if I can't get back into stealth, being to lock down someone at range until I can close is HUGE. Especially considering that we don't have access to the reduced cool down on Cloaking Screen.

 

The talent changes are really just a slight reshuffling to offer a small semblance of use for the lower two tiers of Medicine/Saw Bones to those not specced fully in the trees. The Conc addition is really the anti-gap closer needed for the class and the Lethality changes are really just soaking up the losses from Medicine, fixing an oversight (possible oversight) in the Backstab change, and adding a slight boost to Lethality/Dirty Fighting when generating TA/UH is difficult (at times).

 

/5char

[Ahebish]

I first leveled up an Op to 50, loved it enough to do it again Republic side. I've done full medicine spec, full concealment, and hybrid med/concealment. Never tried Lethality though I may give it a shot after 1.2.

 

- I don't think this class is broken. I think there are a LOT of poor design choices by the devs, and I honestly don't think they really playtested a lot of things (ie. two broken talents at launch, set bonuses that are relatively useless, alacrity on healing equipment, to name a few) but despite this, for the most part, the class is okay. It is far and away better than what Druids suffered in vanilla WoW.

 

- Concealment Ops that did well pre-1.2 will probably still do well post-1.2. Concealment Ops that did not do well pre 1-2 will still struggle, maybe even moreso. I can't say for certain about the changes because I haven't tested it outmyself. However, the changes still boggle my mind. I'm really not sure what they were trying to do with the changes, it's all over the place.

 

What I think hurts the most is the 7.5 cooldown on HS and 12 sec cooldown on BS. After unstealthing, it takes 5 seconds to restealth (Outside of CS or Infiltration). Concealment Ops like to BS, finish off target, and then stealth, going after next target. 7.5 sec cooldown means there's a 2.5 second additional wait. This is a problem, as it makes killing much slower - approx. 50% increase in time to HS. In my opinion the cooldown should be 5 or 6 seconds. - No the 7.5 second CD is meaningless try actually learning to play your class for once instead of relying on a crutch mechanic? The nerf that will hurt the most is BS CD nerf and lacerate.

 

- People are forgetting that the fix to Cover will help tremendously. If we get immobilized by a Sorc or Sniper's knockback we no longer have to just stand there looking like an idiot, we can now use that time to fire off Explosive Probe.

 

- As for a gap closer, the main problem isn't that, actually. The main problem is Huttball. Take Huttball out of the equation and half the complaints will be gone. If Ops perform well in all WZs except one, then I'm fine with that. However, Huttball is the predominant WZ on Imp side. Thankfully, this will change 1.2. As I leveled up my Scoundrel, I rarely ever got Huttball, which made it a LOT easier.

 

- More on the gap closer... I believe what BW's intentions were was to have Ops have some ranged abilities, as well as a few passive speed increases to compensate for a lack of a gap closer. I'm fine with this, IF it were implemented better. Right now, we get a 15% passive combat speed increase, a 50% increase after CS, a 30% increase after Debilitate, and a 20% increase after Evasion, from various different talents. The 50% increase after CS is nice, but it's designed more of a getaway than a gap closer, though in rare instances it can be used as such. The 30% increase after Debilitate doesn't make much sense to me. You can only use it within 4m of a target, and it stuns them, meaning you generally don't need the speed increase. I have never talented into Evasive Imperative, since 20% speed increase for 3 seconds every minute (While using up our self cleanser) doesn't seem very appealing, and also, from what I've heard, it doesn't stack with Infiltrate.

 

What needs to be done is Evasive Imperative and Slip Away need to be changed. Put the movement speed increase on Sever Tendon instead, for example, would be much, much more appealing and effective. Give the speed increase on Evasion AND Shield probe would be another change. I don't think either change would be overpowering.

 

- Healing is fine, for the most part. I never have a problem with mana regeneration, even in healing intensive moments, and the main problems I have with the healing tree are being addressed in 1.2 (RN being frontloaded, keeping TA up for emergencies). Time will tell if the easier TA management will make Infusion a little more worth using. If I did have one complaint, it's that the healing rotation is too simple. KP x2, KI, SP, keep Stim Boost up, repeat. Many times, it's just alternating between KI and SP.

 

- Our biggest issue, IMO, is survivability. CS and Shield Probe are not good enough. Flash Bang is inconsistent (Doesn't work if opponent has full resolve or is being attacked). Evasion is useless since it only works against white damage. A change not often talked about is Countermeasures, possibly making it work somewhat in PvP. Medicine Op survivability is greatly exaggerated. Yes, we can roll HOTs and spam SPs under 30% hp, but a good player/team will focus fire when you're under 30% and/or stunlock you.

 

This is for the above 2 parts: If you can't survive a 1v1 fight against any class as an operative healer you are doing it wrong. L2P. Not to mention healing is getting a boost in 1.2. Your suggestions here are pointless. Unkillable op healers now will be even more unkillable.

 

- DPS Operatives still need some form of utility in PvE. Right now, no one wants a DPS Op since we are a melee class with not much survivability or gap closer. Only thing we have going is stealth res, but DPS assassins can do that as well. One proposed addition is for our attacks to add armor debuff on the target, which I think that alone will do wonders for an Op to be useful. Have Acid Blade and Weakening Blast apply a small armor debuff to the target, for example - That is what Acid blade is for. If you want an armor debuff THEN THE DAMN SKILL SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN NERF'D IN THE FIRST PLACE (wow nifty concept huh? Don't nerf operatives L2P?) This suggestion is pointless.

 

- To sum up, I think if the following changes should be made to the class:

 

1) Move around the speed increase talents to more relevant abilities/instances

2) Change the set bonus on our gear to affect more relevant abilities

3) Reduce the cost of Overload Shot slightly to offset the Backstab nerf, and add a talent to Lethality to give it a chance to proc TA (Limit once every 10 seconds)

4) Reduce the cooldown on HS to 6 seconds

5) Move a few abilities so that they are learned at a lower level. More specifically, Hidden Strike and Shield Probe

6) Have Countermeasures decrease damage from players by 25% during its duration.

7) Acid Blade and Weakening Blast now provide an additional armor debuff to the target

 

These are all very minor changes, but I think they will do wonders to making the class up to par.

 

/5char

Edited April 4, 2012 by Ahebish

[astrolite]

It truly baffles me when people have such tunnel vision that if something doesn't fit what they want, they just completely disregard it.

 

Operatives have ranged abilities. Operatives also have movement speed increases. If someone is moving at 100% speed and you are moving towards them at 130% speed, are you not closing the gap on them? Do you not have abilities that read "10m" and "30m" on them?

 

My proposition fixes the so-called "gap closer" issue, and it also fixes many of the other issues with the class as well (That are really just as important, if not more so), in a way that is fair, not overpowering, and simple enough that BW might actually implement. Just because it isn't Shadowstep or Force Speed doesn't make it wrong.

 

So you think other melee classes (with gap closers) have no ranged abilities and that makes operatives unique? OK.

 

You also think we move at 130% speed while chasing someone in combat? OK.

 

Need a better argument against MMO 101 melee design. Find a successful melee class, in any MMO, that does not have a gap closer. I don't know of any, but I would like to know if they even exist.

[SammuelSK]

So you think other melee classes (with gap closers) have no ranged abilities and that makes operatives unique? OK.

 

You also think we move at 130% speed while chasing someone in combat? OK.

 

Need a better argument against MMO 101 melee design. Find a successful melee class, in any MMO, that does not have a gap closer. I don't know of any, but I would like to know if they even exist.

 

They don't exist, or havn't in any of the MMO's I've played. Stealth classes or all out DD Melee have some sort of leap, jump, sprint, shadowstep ability. Its a design requirement.

 

As for us having ranged abilities.. yeah, that'd be a understandable arguement if we had ranged abilities that did as much as our melee attacks. They don't, if they did.. then we'd be a hybrid, they don't so we're not. An operative sitting in the back of a fight is not going to accomplish anything, he's gimping himself by doing it... so why is a challenge for some people to figure out that when someone knocks us back out of melee range it has the exact same effect as our stun has on them, except we have zero way of actually countering it.

[Dcayd]

They don't exist, or havn't in any of the MMO's I've played. Stealth classes or all out DD Melee have some sort of leap, jump, sprint, shadowstep ability. Its a design requirement.

 

As for us having ranged abilities.. yeah, that'd be a understandable arguement if we had ranged abilities that did as much as our melee attacks. They don't, if they did.. then we'd be a hybrid, they don't so we're not. An operative sitting in the back of a fight is not going to accomplish anything, he's gimping himself by doing it... so why is a challenge for some people to figure out that when someone knocks us back out of melee range it has the exact same effect as our stun has on them, except we have zero way of actually countering it.

 

However, if we had ranged abilities that we could use on the move that hit about as hard as snipe does for ops now then we could apply pressure as we close the distance.

 

Let's put it this way:

You attack Sorc, he uses knockback. You:

a) alternate between our nade and rifle shot till you get in melee range

 

or

 

b) crouch, use probe, waste a gcd not closing on your target, then go back to a) to get in melee range

 

or

 

c) blow vanish to get away or reopen.

 

this would atleast give us a 2nd long range ability to use that would do decent damage as we approach the target. Basically throw nade, use new fangled ability, use rifle shot, and hopefully be back in range.

 

 

Also, have a gap closer isn't all everyone thinks it is. I've put quite a bit of time on mrauaders and juggs, and any decent team will stagger their knockbacks. So basically you get in melee, first person uses knockback, you use charge, second person uses knockback, you're right back where you started. It's 1/2 of why premade teams that stack sins/sorc dominate huttball so easily and defend nodes/doors so well.

[CrunkShizzle]

whats the difference playstyle wise between op and scoundrel

 

considering you said you played both,im thinkin about rollin a scrapper scoundrel cuz i like the look of there gear better then i do operative but was just wonderin

 

i mean,is it generally the same only instead of using a knife like operatives do your using a shotgun and punching people

[hulkweazel]

- No the 7.5 second CD is meaningless try actually learning to play your class for once instead of relying on a crutch mechanic? The nerf that will hurt the most is BS CD nerf and lacerate.

Either you don't know how to read, since I never said anything about double-HS (In fact, I have NEVER used double HS because it's worthless to burn your only defensive ability to get a little extra damage) or you spend too much time 1v1ing and not enough time winning warzones to realize you want to re-stealth every 5 seconds to use HS again on your next target.

 

Take your pick.

This is for the above 2 parts: If you can't survive a 1v1 fight against any class as an operative healer you are doing it wrong. L2P. Not to mention healing is getting a boost in 1.2. Your suggestions here are pointless. Unkillable op healers now will be even more unkillable.

Ah, I see the problem now. You do in fact spend too much time 1v1ing and not enough time playing objectives.

 

Come back when you try rateds. I'm almost positive you will get slaughtered when you realize your 1v1 leet skillz is useless.

 

- That is what Acid blade is for. If you want an armor debuff THEN THE DAMN SKILL SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN NERF'D IN THE FIRST PLACE (wow nifty concept huh? Don't nerf operatives L2P?) This suggestion is pointless.

Again, come back when you realize warzones and operations is a team concept. Please read Acid Blade again. It does not provide an armor debuff. It increases YOUR armor penetration.

 

Isn't it funny how the most arrogant and condescending people are the ones that actually know the least?