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Marauder/Sentinel Cooldowns need to be longer


Fenomen

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Well genius, if you are going to compare a marauder ability to another ability of a class that does not resemble a marauder in any way AND is in a different t game....

 

Why not include all the benefits included with said ability. I will certainly take a 100% damage reduction for the cost of 50% of my damage if it can be used during a CC.

 

Great idea!! I'm sure your guild must be proud. ( judging by your logic I am j/k :))

 

Watch out guys! In 5 seconds that sent/marauder is going to do x damage times "mass" people!!!! What's thAt?? Over 9000??!

 

You obviously play with bads, jog on sunshine.

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Pretty much 0 justification for 99% dmg immunity on short cooldown for what is arguably the highest steady damage class in the game. The current proposed changes in 1.2 leave little reason to expect this will be changed any time soon though. 1.2 definitely looks like "Rise of the Marauders & Tankasins" but like all things in PvP eventually it'll probably get fixed.

 

I agree that handing so many def cds to one of the highest dps ACs seems a little of.

Someone mentioned sentinels being glass cannons- it would be great if they were, but if there are really still people who think that armor gives any kind of huge advantage in PvP...

 

I'm always more than a bit confused that the tank AC guardian/juggs does have less defensive CDs than the pure DDs.

Edited by Twor
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I can agree with most of what you say, although, they dont get rid of short fuse, they moved it to tier 1 so every spec will have it.

 

Yeah sorry, I meant that the talent which made sweeping slash cost 1 rage was taken away so you can't use it to up your fury count anymore, also some of our moves like the interrupt no longer have a rage cost and although these changes will make rage management easier there will still be less fury and therefore less berserk.

Edited by Finnyous
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What sent/mara waits till the resolve bar is full to use Guarded by the force?

 

The ability is ONLY useful right before you die as it takes 50% of current health. If the sent/mara is at full resolve while he uses guarded by the force that is your fault.

 

On my server ( Daragon Trail) I believe we have competent Pvpers. They wait till I pop my Guarded by the force to use the 4 second stun. THAT IS SMART PLAY.

 

You guys should consider it before acting like its the end of the world sentinels have an ability that ONLY LASTS 5 SECONDS.

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If people really took time to play and understand the class then they would see they are completely exaggerating the extent of the buff we are getting. These changes are closer to fixes then they are buffs.

 

The combat tree is becoming somewhat viable in PvP but it still squishy as all hell. Our DoT spec is getting a snare improvement which is completely understandable because its only 30% atm and our AoE spec is going to have more downtime.

 

Stop exaggerating stuff you are ignorant about.

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Honestly stun isn't even the right counter to Undying Rage but it tends to make people feel better.

 

If you use stun at any other time, it prevents 4s of damage from the Marauder.

 

If you use it while he has Undying Rage, it still just prevents 4s of damage from the Marauder.

 

The fact that he is basically immune to damage doesn't make you get higher value out of your stun than any other time. The Marauders uses Undying Rage and expects 5 seconds of free DPS time + 5 second of invulnerability. You can't take away the latter part, and stun unconditionally takes away 4 seconds of DPS when used in any circumstance, so there's no additional gain here.

 

The correct counter to Undying Rage is a root but not all classes have access to that, which is why it's hard to deal with. You can also snare, kite, and KB the charge but that is far from certain not to mention all this has to happen in under 5 seconds.

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Tired of people rushing to the forums with their tails between their legs as soon as they got killed in pvp and asking for a nerf. Marauders/sents are fine. We do have high dps but at the expense of almost everything else and a steeper learning curve than most other classes.

 

If you get beat by us, please l2P instead of crying for nerfs.

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Undying Rage/Guarded By The Force: Simply needs bringing it in line like Paladin bubble from WOW, reduce outgoing damage by 50% while active = Job done!

 

Guarded by the Force is fine the way it is given the dynamic of the class. The whole purpose of this ability is damage mitigation. How do other classes get damage mitigation? Stuns they can attack an enemy through without losing any damage output.

Do sentinels have stuns? No. We have a channeled force stasis which can be interrupted very easily and leaves us vulnerable to attacks from all sides.

 

If I am missing something please point it out. I would love to continue this discussion once those with complaints take a moment to think about the class from a very high level first, and compare it to every other class.

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Yeah, there's some logical reasoning......

 

Episode 2.. anakin vs dooku he dual wields.

episode 3 anakin beheads dooku with 2 lightsabres

 

Dooku's apprentice in the clone wars series dual wield..

 

General grievous quad wield!

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the "steath" doesn't remove them from combat and only lasts for afew seconds... just look for the red dot on your mini-map... they rarely get very far but many players seem to think "oh hes gone... i'll just move on" when the mara/sent is really just hiding behind a wall...

 

Any mara/sents here use their 99% shield every 45 seconds? or their stealth everytime it comes off cooldown? didn't think so...

 

Both the Shield and Stealth are only ever used at the towards the end of the fight when the mara is close to dying... he will win or be dead within another 45 seconds, ether way hes not going to use it again for another life span. for most maras that will be far longer than any other classes cooldown.

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Tired of people rushing to the forums with their tails between their legs as soon as they got killed in pvp and asking for a nerf. Marauders/sents are fine. We do have high dps but at the expense of almost everything else and a steeper learning curve than most other classes.

 

If you get beat by us, please l2P instead of crying for nerfs.

 

Not really true. I have a BM Marauder. Didn't take very long at all to "learn" the following:

 

-Dot, Dot, Annihilate is our damage "rotation". Everything else is just filler while we wait for these to come off cooldown, or to interrupt a cast going through.

 

-Occasionally I have to press another button to make all my dots crit . Note to self, use this when they're freshly applied to get the full 6 crits in.

 

-If I want more uptime on a target who has a knockback, don't open with Force Leap for no reason.

 

I think that pretty much covers it. Outside of "target cast based classes for super easy kills so I can feel like a PvP god, even though I'll pretend like having 4 pretty reliable interrupts isn't a big deal".

 

Know which classes are capable of beating Marauders/Sents? DPS classes with instant, consistent damage with high burst capability. That's two at the moment: Assassins, and Pyro specced Bounty Hunters (and the Republic equivalents of course). There's nothing about "skill" in beating a Marauder. It's about rolling the right class.

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Tired of people rushing to the forums with their tails between their legs as soon as they got killed in pvp and asking for a nerf. Marauders/sents are fine. We do have high dps but at the expense of almost everything else and a steeper learning curve than most other classes.

 

If you get beat by us, please l2P instead of crying for nerfs.

While I actually WHOLLY agree with you, this is clearly not the approach being taken by the developer team. People cry about operatives, across the board huge hits to operatives leaving the class a joke. People cry about heals, across the board hefty hits to healers. People cry about grav round (of all things) and big nerfs to that style of play. Marauder is at least as bad as any of these builds were, your feeling defensive about it is every bit as justifiable as everyone else feeling defensive about getting nerfed into the ground was.

 

If Marauders/Sentinels are fine then all of those other totally legitimate builds were as well. There are a few pretty reasonable classes in this game (despite the lolsmash Guardians for instance are fine) Marauders pretty unquestionably are tier 1 damage in PvP. Their survivability tools are fairly unjustifiable. Yes, a solo Marauder cornered when he pops his invulnerability is dead... but so were all of the builds I noted above.

 

It is 100% understandable why people are puzzled about the approach to class balance in 1.2

Edited by SWImara
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lol ya ok...

 

Give us heavy armor and deal...

 

Don't you already have Heavy Armor with that 20% DR you can maintain ~30 Sek.?

 

Not to mention that you have roughly 2000 HP more than the equally geared Juggernaut and that Heavy Armor only mitigates very little damage in PvP.

Edited by Dee-Jay
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Don't you already have Heavy Armor with that 20% DR you can maintain ~30 Sek.?

 

Not to mention that you have roughly 2000 HP more than the equally geared Juggernaut and that Heavy Armor only mitigates very little damage in PvP.

I've given up discussing armor mitigation on the SWTOR forums. Heavy Armor is dangerously close to worthless atm, particularly in contrast with active defense abilities. I figure this is the sort of thing that might change with itemization in the future, maybe.

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I'm not sure how they came up with the cool down timers. My vanguards cool defensive cool downs really suck and they have long timers. 3 minutes for a small heal and 2 minutes for 25% defense. Shouldn't the crappier cool downs have shorter timers?

 

Seems like the stronger cool downs have the shorters timers on them for some reason.

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There's nothing god class about Sent/Mara, you just don't understand the class therefore can't see it's weaknesses. I have a gunslinger, I can counter Marauders quite effectively.

 

anyone can counter terribads, same excuse the op/mercs used and they got nerfed.

we're not OP, stun and kill us and l2p.

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the 99% immunity is just out of place, it should also decreased outgoing dmg by atleast 50%... it should be a tool to survive and escape not to do dmg, this is a skill where they give u the cake and eat it, which u shouldnt

 

CC for 4 seconds, wait 1 more second, he's at like 5-10% HP after using it, GG. Seriously, it's not hard.

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CC for 4 seconds, wait 1 more second, he's at like 5-10% HP after using it, GG. Seriously, it's not hard.

Except that PvP is not designed for 1v1 in SWTOR nor should it be. Immunity is a poor idea in PvP mmos, particularly when it is illogically added to a DPS class/build rather than a tank build. Perhaps were it coupled with a 99% reduction in healing this would make some sort of sense. As is it doesn't function as a "last gasp" type of ability to beat your opponent.

Edited by SWImara
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the 99% immunity is just out of place, it should also decreased outgoing dmg by atleast 50%... it should be a tool to survive and escape not to do dmg, this is a skill where they give u the cake and eat it, which u shouldnt

 

No it shouldn't

 

Our invis+this are far to short to survive and "escape" in any meaningful way in pvp (in most situations), they are being used as intended, to out live our opponent in those last few seconds and win the fight so we can die shorty after when the next guy comes along (unless healed which like I said earlier in the thread won't happen as much in 1.2). Maur are supposed to be good at 1v1. If you changed the move in this way it serves no purpose in pvp.

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