PvP in Update 1.2: The Failure of Ranked WZs

[AstralProjection]

I understand what you're saying...sounds like you play on a low-pop server though.

 

So it boils down to this - you prefer no game to playing against people who want competition.

 

I think most people, even non-competitive ones, that I know would much rather get ANYTHING to pop than nothing at all. But then again, most of the people I know are queuing for the fun of it.

 

I guess we'll see how it pans out.

 

At least with this system you're not subjecting yourself to being rated if you didn't want to, and still getting a pop rather than waiting all day. That was my point. It's the closest thing they'll ever get to making everyone happy, which will never happen.

 

To me, the indignation you claimed I glazed over was just a half-baked assumption at best. You're no more accurate in saying there will be no need to queue for Non-Rated WZ's as it's just going to lump you in with the rated ones than I am in saying people would rather play in a warzone than sit there waiting for 4 hours for a pop.

Edited April 3, 2012 by AstralProjection

[Scoobings]

I thought ranked would bring about cross server ques. What happened to that? I agree, if they don't bring Xserver ques for ranked then this is going to be pretty epic failure.

[DarthxRage]

It's a workaround until they add cross-server ques. Read the whole article before starting your QQ next time. They had no other option if you wanted ques to pop the same day you join them.

[lollermittens]

It's a workaround until they add cross-server ques. Read the whole article before starting your QQ next time. They had no other option if you wanted ques to pop the same day you join them.

 

I did read the whole article and I thought this was a shoddy solution until cross-server PvP queues are implemented.

 

I am entitled to point out what I think is a not a robust system that does not instill confidence even prior to its implementation.

 

And my opinion is just that: an opinion. There's no need to come in here and personally attack me for I believe. Reserve the ad-hominems to your subconscious and ignore this post if you think it's useless. Thanks.

[lollermittens]

I understand what you're saying...sounds like you play on a low-pop server though.

 

So it boils down to this - you prefer no game to playing against people who want competition.

 

I think most people, even non-competitive ones, that I know would much rather get ANYTHING to pop than nothing at all. But then again, most of the people I know are queuing for the fun of it.

 

I guess we'll see how it pans out.

 

I play on Wound in the Force (PvP West). It's been a "Standard" population server for months now but for the entirety of the month of March, I did not see the Fleet breaking over 100 players (Imperial side). Yesterday I saw 101 players (which dipped back below 90 a few minutes later) but the increase in population is indicative of an accelerated pace in gameplay; an event that is usually observed the night before maintenance/patch since players are rushing to finish their weeklies.

 

My original guild is dead. My other guild that I recently quit had to go on a massive 2-week recruiting spree (we're talking about 25 members and they still had trouble filling out a 16-man raid on Saturday). I PvP on a daily basis and I'm always playing against or with the same players. Familiar faces is not a bad thing; I actually like the aspect of having an in-game reputation which will disappear once cross-server PvP queues are implemented but this is a trade-off I'm willing to make to get the system that was promised to us.

 

At least with this system you're not subjecting yourself to being rated if you didn't want to, and still getting a pop rather than waiting all day. That was my point. It's the closest thing they'll ever get to making everyone happy, which will never happen.

 

I want an exclusive Rated WZ queue for exclusive Rated WZ matches. I'm not interested in playing in a WZ that is pooling its members from the non-Rated WZ queue and the Rated WZ queue just so they can stress test their system for a good 2-3 months before its real implementation begins.

 

I sure as hell don't remember WoW having a "pre-season" for Arenas before their release.

 

To me, the indignation you claimed I glazed over was just a half-baked assumption at best. You're no more accurate in saying there will be no need to queue for Non-Rated WZ's as it's just going to lump you in with the rated ones than I am in saying people would rather play in a warzone than sit there waiting for 4 hours for a pop.

 

We are both speculating two different opposite end of the spectrum: you're confident (with no data) that players who are queuing for non-Ranked WZs will rarely be pooled with those queuing for Ranked WZs while I (with no data) believe that the majority of matches on the majority of servers with Standard/Light population will consistently be pooled into Ranked WZ matches.

 

As a final note, next time I'd appreciate it if you read the entirety of my OP instead of reading a sentence and ultiamtely judging that my analysis is "half-baked." If we're trying to have a serious and civilized dicussion, you'd take the few minutes in your precious life to at least read what I have to say. Otherwise, please keep your opinion to yourself since you're just here to prove that you're right and that I'm wrong regardless of what I've written and thus empower your sense of self-entitlement.

Edited April 3, 2012 by lollermittens

[Ainew]

I'm not really sure what you were expecting from the Pre-Season, other than exactly this...

 

Did you think that Rated WZs were going to be ready to go right out the door? They said very plainly that they weren't. They didn't "promise" you anything.

 

While I agree that throwing non-ranked in w/ ranked queues is a really bad idea, and that they should enable cross-server queues for WZs in general, this last paragraph of yours is dripping w/ self-entitlement.

 

Please stop you're clearly a fool.Cross server que'ing will destroy any pvp community that exists and result in ques with nameless players whom you will never meet again. They should have addressed server population problems before rolling out ranked warzones. They put the wrong priorities on top example ...legacy system is just an alt leveling system that is pretty lack luster to be honest.

 

If they had just not opened 120 NA servers on launch we probably wouldn't have these problems. The poor poor babies who would've posted about 1 hour ques would have gotten over it,That would've have been in their better interest at this point anyway. They should have been working on merging servers and bug fixing rather than adding minor benefits and expecting people to make more characters. Not to mention a lot of people wanted to make their class a different race but now they expect you to relevel because race changing is just so *********** insane and will ruin the game.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Ainew

[AstralProjection]

As a final note, next time I'd appreciate it if you read the entirety of my OP instead of reading a sentence and ultiamtely judging that my analysis is "half-baked." If we're trying to have a serious and civilized dicussion, you'd take the few minutes in your precious life to at least read what I have to say. Otherwise, please keep your opinion to yourself since you're just here to prove that you're right and that I'm wrong regardless of what I've written and thus empower your sense of self-entitlement.

 

I did read your entire post, gave my opinion, and it differed from yours.

 

You based your premise and indignation on a bunch of assumptions, which you haven't experienced yet in reality.

 

I agree with you that better testing would help them figure these things out.

 

I wasn't out to prove that I'm right and you're wrong, I don't really care who is wrong or right; I'm going to play them either way and not be bothered. This is a game, after all, for me it's about the fun.

 

I don't feel entitled to anything - you're the one here claiming you deserve something based on your expectations, and that BioWare screwed up.

 

If I needed internet forums to empower me, I'd probably just end it all right then and there - but hey, if posting some passive aggressive garbage about wanting a civil discussion is going to empower YOUR sense of entitlement, go for it. Just looks more like you don't like people disagreeing with you.

 

If you came here expecting the whole world to agree with you, I don't know what forums you've been reading the past few months. Even the most cogent, well designed posts and suggestions get torn to shreds here by the ego boost people get from anonymity. The OP doesn't fall into that category.

[Swidgin]

Call your "Pre-Season" what it truly is: a stress test of your Rated WZ to check that the mathematical equations utilized to calculate player rankings will function correctly before the implementation of the cross-server Ranked WZs. .

 

You say this then complain?

 

Are you trolling us man?

[AngryBuddhist]

Server merges need to happen now if you plan on saving this game.

 

The longer they wait on this the more people they will lose.

[Celebrus]

Personally I wont be placing myself into a queue for pvp anymore, after all this is a game and is about fun, and when one player gains an advantage over another in such a transparent fashion the fun factor of a game can be threatened.

 

That is exactly what this is, for the time being, players that form groups and queue for ranked matches will have a good chance of benefitting from this system by being matched against less coordinated players that didn't have a choice to opt out unless they wanted to avoid PvP altogether, and the best part of all, they get rewarded at a higher level for farming less coordinated and less geared players.

 

It's a joke, you can fanboy these threads all you want, but this "competitive" play is anything but.

 

BW may "lose" players over not making this move, but once again, as was with Valor, the joke is on those that play at a high level and do so legitimately. The people to suffer from this the most are the people that truly want competitive PvP the most, as this is not anywhere near what they have been asking for.

 

So it boils down to this - you prefer no game to playing against people who want competition.

 

You're trying too hard. People that want competition don't want to roll unranked puggers.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Celebrus

[Bnol]

Cross server que'ing will destroy any pvp community that exists and result in ques with nameless players whom you will never meet again. They should have addressed server population problems before rolling out ranked warzones. They put the wrong priorities on top example ...legacy system is just an alt leveling system that is pretty lack luster to be honest.

 

If they had just not opened 120 NA servers on launch we probably wouldn't have these problems. The poor poor babies who would've posted about 1 hour ques would have gotten over it,That would've have been in their better interest at this point anyway. They should have been working on merging servers and bug fixing rather than adding minor benefits and expecting people to make more characters. Not to mention a lot of people wanted to make their class a different race but now they expect you to relevel because race changing is just so *********** insane and will ruin the game.

 

This. Although I think they could do a battlegroup system of 3 healthy servers and you would still have a decent community with enough variation and fairly quick queue times.

 

I honestly don't understand why they have non-ranked lvl 50 WZs at all (sub 50 can be non-ranked). It should be ranked because it will place you with players of similar skill/gear. Putting together competitive match-ups should be the goal of any matchmaking system.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Bnol

[Codename_Quincy]

all wz should be rated. if you don't want or care about your rating, so be it. Q times are going to be a big issue.

[Celebrus]

all wz should be rated. if you don't want or care about your rating, so be it. Q times are going to be a big issue.

 

This would be acceptable compared to the system that we are being given. I would rather see them simply force us all into ranked matches than allow one group of players to receive a lesser reward for the same game than another group.

 

As it is there isn't really any choice, it is either don't pvp, or pvp against ranked players, the illusion of choice is still there, but we would be better served by simply making all warzones ranked.

 

Although I'm guessing the "pretigious" feel of rolling over a pug group of baddies on your way to your (not easy mode at all) ranked comms would be lost if there wasn't a clearly labled "lesser" player for ranked players to feel superior to.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Celebrus

[AstralProjection]

 

You're trying too hard. People that want competition don't want to roll unranked puggers.

 

You're trying too hard. I didn't say they did. I said people who want to play a warzone want to do it without waiting 4 hours. That supercedes what we all want in terms of competition. No game also = no competition.

 

Totally agree, nobody in the Ranked camp wants or cares to face the unranked people. But this is a workaround solution for the mess created with spreading out the servers too thin at launch, and to many is the lesser of two evils, that's all.

 

It's not like they've been telling everyone 1.2 was regular season rated warzones, and cross server queuing was coming in it.

 

They've been billing this what it is - the first arrival of the ratings system and a pre-season, while they get cross server queuing going.

[Jederix]

Rated WZs are a joke anyways. Most servers are dead. PVP on each server will remain exactly the same as it is now. Does your guild have 8 competent players left in it? Most likely not, folks.

 

Server merges need to happen now if you plan on saving this game.

 

Keep yelling about mergers. You won't get them. They equal nothing but bad publicity.

 

Why this is not common knowledge, I'll never know.

[Ainew]

This. Although I think they could do a battlegroup system of 3 healthy servers and you would still have a decent community with enough variation and fairly quick queue times.

 

I honestly don't understand why they have non-ranked lvl 50 WZs at all (sub 50 can be non-ranked). It should be ranked because it will place you with players of similar skill/gear. Putting together competitive match-ups should be the goal of any matchmaking system.

 

I agree with 3 per group being fine.However I don't see why we couldn't just merge those 3,I'm pretty confident 1 server could handle it. Plus it would provide more guilds/people to do outlaws den pvp,world pvp if we ever get any again etc.

[Jederix]

Please stop you're clearly a fool.Cross server que'ing will destroy any pvp community that exists and result in ques with nameless players whom you will never meet again. They should have addressed server population problems before rolling out ranked warzones. They put the wrong priorities on top example ...legacy system is just an alt leveling system that is pretty lack luster to be honest.

 

If they had just not opened 120 NA servers on launch we probably wouldn't have these problems. The poor poor babies who would've posted about 1 hour ques would have gotten over it,That would've have been in their better interest at this point anyway. They should have been working on merging servers and bug fixing rather than adding minor benefits and expecting people to make more characters. Not to mention a lot of people wanted to make their class a different race but now they expect you to relevel because race changing is just so *********** insane and will ruin the game.

 

You people and your damned community. There is no MMO community anymore, get over it.

[Stadulator]

You do know that 1,2 will be pre-season and that they are adding cross server for WZa with season 1. All rankings will reset with season 1.

 

Think of pre season as a time for everyone to gear up, so season 1 will be about teamplay more than who got the gear first.

 

Think of "pre-season" as "continuing beta"

[Celebrus]

You're trying too hard. I didn't say they did. I said people who want to play a warzone want to do it without waiting 4 hours. That supercedes what we all want in terms of competition. No game also = no competition.

 

Totally agree, nobody in the Ranked camp wants or cares to face the unranked people. But this is a workaround solution for the mess created with spreading out the servers too thin at launch, and to many is the lesser of two evils, that's all.

 

It's not like they've been telling everyone 1.2 was regular season rated warzones, and cross server queuing was coming in it.

 

They've been billing this what it is - the first arrival of the ratings system and a pre-season, while they get cross server queuing going.

 

Thats great. I'm not here claiming to have been deceived, cheated, or lied to, simply expressing my opinion on what I view as a poor system.

 

I don't really remember saying anything about cross server queues at all, or regular season rated warzones, only expressing my opinion that this is a poor system implemented with poor timing, a situation created by poor planning. A lot of this could have and probably should have been done earlier and differently, but I guess being new to the whole MMO thing can be an acceptable excuse for a while longer.

 

I for one am glad that they have been up front about this system being forced and not ideal, but being up front about a problem still leaves a problem to be solved.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Celebrus

[AngryBuddhist]

Keep yelling about mergers. You won't get them. They equal nothing but bad publicity.

 

Why this is not common knowledge, I'll never know.

 

There is no worse publicity than deserted servers.

[Daxun]

I agree with 3 per group being fine.However I don't see why we couldn't just merge those 3,I'm pretty confident 1 server could handle it. Plus it would provide more guilds/people to do outlaws den pvp,world pvp if we ever get any again etc.

 

Exactly. QFT

[CrunkShizzle]

There is no worse publicity than deserted servers.

 

yeah i guess when the community only wants to play on high population servers they pretty much brought it onto themselves

Edited April 3, 2012 by CrunkShizzle

[Scoobings]

I'm just content with the knowledge that I called this day 2 after release saying that we will need X server ques or we'd have this problem. How's that PVP community workin out for you folks?

[Zyriak]

Why is it a failure? They say that it is a TEMPORARY solution, next patch there is cross server rated WZ and this system will disappear. Read more carefully, this is not dramatic it's pre-season only. This patch is supposed to be a warm up patch for rated WZs.

[Daxun]

Why is it a failure? They say that it is a TEMPORARY solution, next patch there is cross server rated WZ and this system will disappear. Read more carefully, this is not dramatic it's pre-season only. This patch is supposed to be a warm up patch for rated WZs.

 

Some people think the cross server wzs are a lame bandaid to what the real problem is. Server population.

 

That is not a temporary problem and is only getting worse as we go

 

And where does it stop? Do we eventually just accept cross server LFGs because the server pops are all messed up?

 

A lot of people came from SWG and were hanging their hats on this game having some sort of community like that. So far it really doesn't, and it doesn't look like they care to try to create/preserve some sort of it.