GJLynch Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Alright, this is only a half rant topic, but I think my overall point is valid. Question: 6 months ago would you have really been all that upset if they said that SWTOR is coming out in the late spring rather than Dec 20. 2012? Whether EA forced an early release or not doesn't concern me, well it does, but that's to be expected, its EA. The fact that so much was incomplete with the game and they still decided to release it, for WHATEVER reason(s) it may have been, is just unbelievable. If the game was actually ready to go, with plenty of content at lv 50, less glitches/bugs, and just overall longevity of the game was intact; by all means, release the game. But they HAD to of known that mechanics were off, MANY bugs existed, and the content at max level was ..meh. My contention is that people wouldn't have cared at all. They would've gone about their lives, playing other games, seeing the decline and boredom of WoW and would've received a complete SWTOR and stuck with it longer. Too many people have quit SWTOR because of all the aforementioned reasons and you can say that 1.2 will be the saving grace, but why would you say that? Legacy updates? A new battleground and raid/dungeon? Nice, but as it's been reported, they should've been in the game from the start. 1.2 is what SWTOR should've been on release. How about fixing stuff and adding things that make the game play better? ie cross server pvp, server xfers or at least consolidations? Then again I can't really be all that surprised. Because whoever is the lead graphics designer for PvP gear is a serious troll. Sentinels, I mean.... Space Power Ranger Samurai? How the hell can you go into a meeting, present that gear set with a straight face? Same thing for whoever came up with the space stations above each planet. They must've been like, "Ok here is the deal, we will give players personal ships, which they cannot change, and only use for traveling between planets and roller coaster Starfox-esque battles. Oh and better yet, they cant even fly directly to a planet, they have to stop at a space station, run through multiple phases and take a shuttle to the surface! TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL tl;dr Answer my first question. I'd just like to see what people think.
Alavastre Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I think that I'm tired of reading how the game should have been released and with what features.
Aeris_Kane Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 The game was released at the time it was released for one simple reason ... you ready? Money. /thread.
Farho Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Like EA is known for releasing complete games in the past.
Restepor Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 A lot of bugs were fixed in a very short amount of time, 1-2 weeks. This new update, 1.2, is fine coming out when it did. In turn it was probably for the better to release in Winter, for the money, and be able to promise a big update in a rather short amount of time.
Alavastre Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Look no further than SquareSoft and the crap they've spewed out after being merged with Enix.
TheRedNalroni Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I'm deeply upset at the game. Several years ago I said if Any developer could rival World of Warcraft with an MMO it was Bioware. I've been a devout follower and purchaser of Bioware games sine 1998 when I bought Baldurs gate. I now have to say I was wrong. I'm a massive Star Wars Geek, its unreal. The Game I expected was an MMO. A Game where I could group with friends and other players tackling challenges in operations and Hard Mode groups. The Game is fantastic to look at. The Graphics and design are great for the era (though som eof the more recent models look like they belong in Warhammer online not Star Wars) The Stories are epic despite taking best part of 5 days for each of them. Huttball was new and innovative and very exciting. It had new game teething problems, Bugs, Heavy reource requirements leaving a choppy jumpy game that with 5 second delays made pvp impossible. But going to look past that as its the same with all games, it just takes time. What it fails on: The End game, yes after those 5 days of playing, that 72 hours of questing to reach 50 albeit rushed to keep ahead of the curve for server firsts etc... Found engame, just not there. The Flashpoints are interesting, love the stories, the Operations exciting but clearing Nightmare modes of Karraga's palace and Eternity Vault within 4 hours on a weekly basis one night a week leaves nothing but Voidstar Huttball or The Civil War. PVP PVP PVP in a system where albeit many complain about class balance thoguh i understand where the designers are coming from in terms of balance between DPS, DPS uptime, Crowd Control, Stuns, Knock Back, Escape moves and utility, I can understand where they come from despite disagreeing with how much emphasis and advantage they put on certain abilities. Dailies? Sick of doing them, I have full Rakata now Ive reached the end of the game. Thats it, nothing more for me to do. 1.2 New Operation, It too k less than 8 weeks to put nightmare mode EV and Karragas on Farm. Can I expect the same for the new one? Will I see a New operation in 8 weeks? The Game for what it is, is good It Is Knight of the Old Republic 3 with the added features of playing it online with friends. Once complete, its like any other single player game, put back on the shelf till an expansion comes out. Eg Subscribe for a month every time a major patch comes out, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and in the mean time play other games. The game content cannot sustain a subscription for any length of time. How do they battle this? Give us more content? Not exactly. They implement very loooooong grinds for Valour, daily commendations and the like which will keep people doing daily repeatabel quests over and over and over again to attain the cheese, which smells a bit off in the first place. They claim the content in 1.2 is bigger than any free content given out. What's a subscription for? Whats in 1.2? A New Operation ( 4-6 hours a week) A Flashpoint (1-2 hours a day; for about 4 days before youve seen it played through and got your drops from it and now sick of the story), I struggle to get a flashpiint group on my server even with the 12 friends that came with me to the game back in beta. I look for them everyday and get 3 flashpoints a week. Peak Time on my server 8pm: 38 in Imperial Fleet/Karraggas Palace/Eternity Vault (Mainly waiting for warzones, doing operatiosn with the guild, 1 maybe 2 people looking for a healer or a tank, and most often both. 48 In the Pit 8 in Voidstar 7 In the Civil War 7 in Hoth 11 in Belsavis 9 on Balmorera 8 on Corellia 3 on Dromuund Kaas 2 on Illum 4 on Voss 2 on Quesh 5 on Alderaan.... A New warzone, Not great, just a change in scenery every 4th Warzone you play. Legacy...great idea, but implemented far too late to have any bearing on existing accounts. Im legacy level 35 without even trying, I think I hit 20 just by levelling to 50. None of the content in it has any bearing on my existing character. Crafting - This is all fixes for broken crafting balance anyway New pvp / pve euipment: None of it spectacular unless using the crafting system to reverse engineer and crit craft with augment slot takes a horrendous amount of time for just an aesthetic appearance over Oranges basic crafted gear (which in a lot of cases look better/more star wars like). Apparently the Designer and Developers feel that there is no problem and that they are gaining more subscriptions than losing them. If they dont announce positive address at the Population problems on Many servers, I will have completely and utterly lost all faith in Bioware and Electronic Arts.
Kaphik Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I'm deeply upset at the game. Several years ago I said if Any developer could rival World of Warcraft with an MMO it was Bioware. I've been a devout follower and purchaser of Bioware games sine 1998 when I bought Baldurs gate. I now have to say I was wrong. I'm a massive Star Wars Geek, its unreal. The Game I expected was an MMO. A Game where I could group with friends and other players tackling challenges in operations and Hard Mode groups. The Game is fantastic to look at. The Graphics and design are great for the era (though som eof the more recent models look like they belong in Warhammer online not Star Wars) The Stories are epic despite taking best part of 5 days for each of them. Huttball was new and innovative and very exciting. It had new game teething problems, Bugs, Heavy reource requirements leaving a choppy jumpy game that with 5 second delays made pvp impossible. But going to look past that as its the same with all games, it just takes time. What it fails on: The End game, yes after those 5 days of playing, that 72 hours of questing to reach 50 albeit rushed to keep ahead of the curve for server firsts etc... Found engame, just not there. The Flashpoints are interesting, love the stories, the Operations exciting but clearing Nightmare modes of Karraga's palace and Eternity Vault within 4 hours on a weekly basis one night a week leaves nothing but Voidstar Huttball or The Civil War. PVP PVP PVP in a system where albeit many complain about class balance thoguh i understand where the designers are coming from in terms of balance between DPS, DPS uptime, Crowd Control, Stuns, Knock Back, Escape moves and utility, I can understand where they come from despite disagreeing with how much emphasis and advantage they put on certain abilities. Dailies? Sick of doing them, I have full Rakata now Ive reached the end of the game. Thats it, nothing more for me to do. 1.2 New Operation, It too k less than 8 weeks to put nightmare mode EV and Karragas on Farm. Can I expect the same for the new one? Will I see a New operation in 8 weeks? The Game for what it is, is good It Is Knight of the Old Republic 3 with the added features of playing it online with friends. Once complete, its like any other single player game, put back on the shelf till an expansion comes out. Eg Subscribe for a month every time a major patch comes out, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and in the mean time play other games. The game content cannot sustain a subscription for any length of time. How do they battle this? Give us more content? Not exactly. They implement very loooooong grinds for Valour, daily commendations and the like which will keep people doing daily repeatabel quests over and over and over again to attain the cheese, which smells a bit off in the first place. They claim the content in 1.2 is bigger than any free content given out. What's a subscription for? Whats in 1.2? A New Operation ( 4-6 hours a week) A Flashpoint (1-2 hours a day; for about 4 days before youve seen it played through and got your drops from it and now sick of the story), I struggle to get a flashpiint group on my server even with the 12 friends that came with me to the game back in beta. I look for them everyday and get 3 flashpoints a week. Peak Time on my server 8pm: 38 in Imperial Fleet/Karraggas Palace/Eternity Vault (Mainly waiting for warzones, doing operatiosn with the guild, 1 maybe 2 people looking for a healer or a tank, and most often both. 48 In the Pit 8 in Voidstar 7 In the Civil War 7 in Hoth 11 in Belsavis 9 on Balmorera 8 on Corellia 3 on Dromuund Kaas 2 on Illum 4 on Voss 2 on Quesh 5 on Alderaan.... A New warzone, Not great, just a change in scenery every 4th Warzone you play. Legacy...great idea, but implemented far too late to have any bearing on existing accounts. Im legacy level 35 without even trying, I think I hit 20 just by levelling to 50. None of the content in it has any bearing on my existing character. Crafting - This is all fixes for broken crafting balance anyway New pvp / pve euipment: None of it spectacular unless using the crafting system to reverse engineer and crit craft with augment slot takes a horrendous amount of time for just an aesthetic appearance over Oranges basic crafted gear (which in a lot of cases look better/more star wars like). Apparently the Designer and Developers feel that there is no problem and that they are gaining more subscriptions than losing them. If they dont announce positive address at the Population problems on Many servers, I will have completely and utterly lost all faith in Bioware and Electronic Arts. Pretty much everything you stated above applied to WoW for me in Cataclysm.
Kaskava Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Alright, this is only a half rant topic, but I think my overall point is valid. Question: 6 months ago would you have really been all that upset if they said that SWTOR is coming out in the late spring rather than Dec 20. 2012? I made it that far. Here's the thing. BioWare is beholden to the EA, who is beholden to the share holders. If they say launch, it launches. There's not much they can do, besides trying to fix and add in things. Don't know why so many people can't understand that.
Gokkus Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Yes, I would have seriously hated it if they had waited another half year. The game is fun the way it is, but it can have more features that make it fun. I dont mind if they add that at a (sensible) later stage AT ALL.
Alavastre Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 If you spent 100 bucks on Final Fantasy XIV and played that game at launch, you wouldn't be so pissed off at this game. At least SWTOR had quests.
kidatwood Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 To the Guy who said he was legacy level 20 by the time he hit 50 you must of been playing more than one toon?
TheRedNalroni Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 To the Guy who said he was legacy level 20 by the time he hit 50 you must of been playing more than one toon? It waas a guess, I cant exactly remember, maybe it was 17 that souds familiar. That said Ive been playing the game since December 15th, and before the legacy system is in Im 35
Wolfninjajedi Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I don't see how the game was rushed, when they released it on the date they said they were gonna release it.
Jett-Rinn Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 OMGZORZ a spelling error in the text!!11111 UNSUB!!!!!!!
Darth_Moonshadow Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Question: What is this "Run through station" thing I keep hearing about? I go from my ship to the planet spaceport in two loading screens. I feel like Yarael Poof over here.
Galbatorrix Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I think that I'm tired of reading how the game should have been released and with what features. This. I've been having a great time since launch. If you play MMOs long enough, you come to realize quickly that they're ALWAYS changing. They're always being updated. Also, there are always going to be those that fly through the content and then scream for more. If they'd have waited to release the game in June, it still would have had bugs (WOW still has bugs), it still would have needed more content (all MMOs need more content) and you'd still have people complaining about basically everything. Such is the nature of an MMO. Edited March 30, 2012 by Galbatorrix
Smallways Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Yes, I would have seriously hated it if they had waited another half year. The game is fun the way it is, but it can have more features that make it fun. I dont mind if they add that at a (sensible) later stage AT ALL. This was my response as well. I have been slowly savoring my time in the game and just on the verge of my first 50. I'm already looking forward to creating and following a completely different character and watching the story progress.
Cormey Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Alright, this is only a half rant topic, but I think my overall point is valid. Question: 6 months ago would you have really been all that upset if they said that SWTOR is coming out in the late spring rather than Dec 20. 2012? Whether EA forced an early release or not doesn't concern me, well it does, but that's to be expected, its EA. The fact that so much was incomplete with the game and they still decided to release it, for WHATEVER reason(s) it may have been, is just unbelievable. If the game was actually ready to go, with plenty of content at lv 50, less glitches/bugs, and just overall longevity of the game was intact; by all means, release the game. But they HAD to of known that mechanics were off, MANY bugs existed, and the content at max level was ..meh. My contention is that people wouldn't have cared at all. They would've gone about their lives, playing other games, seeing the decline and boredom of WoW and would've received a complete SWTOR and stuck with it longer. Too many people have quit SWTOR because of all the aforementioned reasons and you can say that 1.2 will be the saving grace, but why would you say that? Legacy updates? A new battleground and raid/dungeon? Nice, but as it's been reported, they should've been in the game from the start. 1.2 is what SWTOR should've been on release. How about fixing stuff and adding things that make the game play better? ie cross server pvp, server xfers or at least consolidations? Then again I can't really be all that surprised. Because whoever is the lead graphics designer for PvP gear is a serious troll. Sentinels, I mean.... Space Power Ranger Samurai? How the hell can you go into a meeting, present that gear set with a straight face? Same thing for whoever came up with the space stations above each planet. They must've been like, "Ok here is the deal, we will give players personal ships, which they cannot change, and only use for traveling between planets and roller coaster Starfox-esque battles. Oh and better yet, they cant even fly directly to a planet, they have to stop at a space station, run through multiple phases and take a shuttle to the surface! TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL tl;dr Answer my first question. I'd just like to see what people think. Here's a question right back at you: Do you honestly believe you wouldn't have made this thread a few months after a (whatever late spring is in your part of the world, i'll assume it's now)? There's bugs in the game now, if they released now it'd have those bugs (maybe even more with a smaller population than current being able to beta test for those bugs), they'd still add more bugs with each content patch moving forward. Locust gamers would still devour content and complain about the endgame days after release. Personal ships would still be unalterable. The armour would still look the way it does now except with a lot less feedback to go on what people think of them (yes, i do agree they're freakin horrid looking). In the end it didn't happen, it happened the way it happened. You can sit here with 20/20 vision bemoaning what could have been but that's completely irrelevant. The part of your post that i bolded is the only part that matters here, it's the only part of your post where you actually look forward. That's the stuff they will need to implement to keep the game healthy for current players. Is some of it taking too long? Yep, transfers in particular need to be in ASAP. However bugfixing and content addition, to me, seem to be going at a nice pace for the most part.
mangarrage Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 This whole post is all your opinions and not fact You obviously are one of those people who come from post bc wow and never played a game at release. So let me ask you these questions: What game released with no bugs in the game, or even minimal ones? What game wasn't forced out early by the investors? What game released with plenty of content for max level players? Now again you are one of those people who think wow features should be industry standards and your lack of experience in MMOs shows due to the fact that there isn't many games at all that have all of the gushing nonsense of features that wow has. You dont get the industry and never will The state of the industry is really unacceptable to the player base, but that thing that is an industry standard is unfinished buggy games. There has never been a game that I have played that wasnt buggy in the beginning, nor has there been a game I have played where, when expansions or major patches came out there wasn't more bugs They could wait 3 months or 6 to release the game because it isnt their choice, which people just don't get. Try being an investor and you will see the other side. And even if they did there would still be bugs and there would still be "features" you think should be in the game that aren't Just another horrid post
Loxion Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Although I can appreciate what the OP is saying. In reality, it makes very little difference how much was released at the start. If there was 5 times the content there is now there would still be loads of people whinging and moaning on the forums about lack of content, x is broken, y could be better. People are never satisified. Now, saying all that, I also think that it was is somewhat lacking in endgame content, I also feel it is far to easy to get gear (and I am a semi casual player). I have played many MMOs for many years, I have never had more than 1 character at max level in an MMO before, yet 3 months into this one I have one at max and another 10 levels short. I have mostly Columi and some Rakata PvE gear and almost two full champ sets (Tank and DPS), I have never known a game to be so easy to get gear and yet I still see people complaining that it is a 'grind'! Edited March 30, 2012 by Loxion
cbowsin Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Question: 6 months ago would you have really been all that upset if they said that SWTOR is coming out in the late spring rather than Dec 20. 2012? Whether EA forced an early release or not doesn't concern me, well it does, but that's to be expected, its EA. The fact that so much was incomplete with the game and they still decided to release it, for WHATEVER reason(s) it may have been, is just unbelievable. Your definition of incomplete is different than my definition of incomplete. Being a participant in beta, there were things that were incomplete. They completed those things before release. Since the release I feel they have a complete game. Would it upset me if they pushed back the release, not really, but last year I saw no reason for it to be pushed back, just as I see nothing incomplete about it now.
Claymaniac Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Its easy as gamers to just say, "Release it later". When you have $80 million+ invested in it however, at some point you are going to want to start seeing a return. You can't just keep telling your investors that they are delaying it.
Andryah Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I think that I'm tired of reading how the game should have been released and with what features. /signed. Waste of space in the forum IMO, and reprosecuting the same perceived offense over and over again begins to look like some form of MMO induced insanity. It's not like there is a jury trial here or something, much less an appeal process. Bioware decides what, when, and how. We only get to decide if we want to participate or not. Subscribe or not-subscribe, each player gets to choose for themselves. None of us owns the MMO, we only purchase access to it. Edited March 30, 2012 by Andryah
VicSkimmr Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I'm happy the game came out when it did, mostly because I've been having a blast playing it since the first second of EGA. I don't care that it's missing some quality of life features because I'm having fun. The stuff in 1.2 is awesome and adds to the fun, but in no way do I believe that it needed to be included at launch. If you aren't having fun, go find another game.
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