What's missing in SWtOR? It's called a Grind.

[Dalig]

What SWtOR is missing is the grind, plain and simple! I have been playing these addictive games since UO beta way back in the day and played most notable titles along the way. The biggest thing that I have seen change over these years is that games are moving away from any sort of grind.

 

Let us consider what exactly most consider a "grind". It is the process of leveling up, right? That is part of it, another part is instances, crafting, PvP and then there is just general exploration. All of these areas are a grind in some form or another. A grind usually indicates some sort of challenge that requires a good amount of time sink and all of those are exactly that.

 

So let us start with leveling, SWtOR has no type of grind in this area. I did the power gaming thing through many titles through out the years and decided I would just take it easy with this mmo. Even doing this I hit 50 in less than 1 month, and that was with doing most of the "Heroic" missions, the bonus series on most planets and making sure I had at least hit all areas of the map. There is simply no challenge in leveling, I maybe died a total of 10x on both my toons and that was usually because I was trying to solo a orange "elite". I could only wish that I could do this even when I was powergaming in some past titles. Sooo, no grind/challenge here.

 

Another part of a the "Grind" is usually instances. Why I will admit that I have not done a whole lot of them in SWtOR, I have listened to guildies discuss them, read the forum remarks on them, watched "General" chat while waiting for the PvP que and I have run some of them. There is no grind in this area either. I am sorry but if people are running successful pug's through "Hard Modes" and Ops with in the first 3 months of release then there simply can not be a grind here. The grind in instances should be having to figure them out by dieing 10-20x and coming back for more just to say you have downed such and such boss. People had cleared the hard mod stuff within a couple weeks of release. You have to give people a challenge, especially in this area. In most mmo's you don't have multiple raiding nights so that you can hit multiple Op's, you have them so you can try and finish up the one you started earlier in the week. This is what most mmo's are sustained on, that instance challenge at max level that you just can't seem to get past. I will digress from this area though because even though I have personally chosen not to run these, there definitely seems to be a lack of a challenge in this area.

 

So let's move on to crafting. Simply put, there is absolutely no grind here. I love the crafting aspect of mmo's, always have. But let's be honest, there is no challenge in the crafting. I had all of my crafting skills to 400 well before 50, had all of my companions to max affection prior to 50 and had many T1 and a couple of T2 recipes for level 50 gear by the time I hit 50. There is no gathering materials, there is no taking time out of your playing to actually craft something and there is no killing hundreds of mobs to get that specific recipe. Those are all grinds and crafters love them, in SWtOR we have all these lil slaves to complete anything in this area.

 

Now on to PvP. PvP did/does have a grind for gear. In this area they actually did leave a little bit of a grind because of the Valor reqs on some of the gear and the way you had to purchase the gear prior to hitting 60 valor. While I will admit the presence of a grind here, it is a very small grind. It took me all of 2 weeks get full Champion Gear, hit Valor level 60 and start in on the BM gear. That was playing about 2 hours a night and not pvping at all until I hit 50. Well, even this little grind is gone as of 1.2.

 

Finally, all of the Easter Eggs. Well these are a grind to a point. But in most mmos these are rare items that you are lucky to get even if you put in the time to get to where they are supposed to be. Simply because they were on a lengthy respawn timer. In SWtOR, get past the bugs and get there and you are guaranteed to find said item, grab it and move on to the next one. Not to mention this is usually something most folks do while completely bored on an off night and most don't even consider doing simply because they were usually novelty items. In SWtOR a lot of these easter eggs are datacrons and there for a competitive player will either get them as they are leveling up or grab them all in a good night of playing once they hit 50. I won't even go into codex items, simply put these are pointless items that most folks just stumbled upon while leveling. Most won't even consider going back and getting all of these, there's no point. Google them and you can read them all any way.

 

Personally I will continue to sub simply because I have gotten older and have taken a REALLY casual approach to SWtOR. It is exactly what I was looking for when I purchased it. That being said, I really can feel for those that are looking for a challenge/grind. They flew through leveling not because they were rushing to 50 but because there was no challenge along the way. Hell people don't even have to worry about getting level appropriate gear simply because they know that on the next planet they will basically replace or upgrade it all. Then they hit 50 in anticipation of running some raids and getting on to the harder content. When they start in on the HMs/Ops they come to realize they can fly through these as well.

 

What it all boils down to is that there has to be a "epeen" value to any mmo. The people who put in the time to accomplish things in any game want to be able to show off said items and not have every player be able to accomplish the same thing 2 weeks after they hit 50. This is a VERY casual game and will be great for casual players as long as they continue to add content as fast as they are. As for the true power gamers out there, I feel for you. I really do. But considering that it is 3 months in and ALL content has been beaten does not bode well for this MMO holding your interest .

 

So for all of you casual players out there, take some time and consider what these people are saying and stop with the "well quit" statements. Simply put you should not be able to conquer all of the content in 3 months on any MMO. And for all of you powergamers, accept the fact that this game is perfect for casual players and will probably never change. BW has chosen their audience and it is not the hard core MMO players. Unfortunately they made a massive error in this area because casual players will always stayed sub'd because they always have something to do, you all on the other hand have already started looking for the next challenge. What is truly sad about this is that it is such an easy fix.

 

/End wall of text

[Nullermand]

Omg cant belive I just read that..

 

+1 for effort m8... I`ll give u that ^^

 

Edit: Agree with most you said but its been said a 100 times already.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Nullermand

[Urael]

You may like

if you like to grind!

[ExpLiciTSainT]

It's funny, my hardcore MMO friends will not join Swtor because they put a grind into other games... They do not wish to grind in this game.

 

To me, the end game grind is what matters, everything before is just annoying.

[Stugotz]

I remember when MMOs had no "end game" and were much more game then many of the latest MMOs. Many players were so busy having fun playing the game that none thought about the end of it.

[Taorus]

So...No grind is a bad thing now:rolleyes:

[ExpLiciTSainT]

I remember when MMOs had no "end game" and were much more game then many of the latest MMOs. Many players were so busy having fun playing the game that none thought about the end of it.

 

All the people in my guild that think that way are level ~30 ish… and complain about how it takes so long to level. Ironic.

 

I appreciate finding gear, and being able to use it, instead of out growing it.

[Jandi]

All the people in my guild that think that way are level ~30 ish… and complain about how it takes so long to level. Ironic.

 

I appreciate finding gear, and being able to use it, instead of out growing it.

 

What, it's not awesome to do a flashpoint, get some cool stuff and replace it 3 hours?

[GeckoOBac]

Ok... I think world is really going to end in 2012 because I've just read a "Grind Eulogy". I thought that at least on THAT point we could all agree. Boy was I wrong.

[Stugotz]

All the people in my guild that think that way are level ~30 ish… and complain about how it takes so long to level. Ironic.

 

I appreciate finding gear, and being able to use it, instead of out growing it.

 

That's pretty amazing as this game is by far the easiest MMO to level up in out of about the dozen or more that I have played.

[Dalig]

Ok... I think world is really going to end in 2012 because I've just read a "Grind Eulogy". I thought that at least on THAT point we could all agree. Boy was I wrong.

 

lol.. Ok I do have to say that I thought we could to, until SWtOR came out. A game with truly no grind at all.

 

But in retrospect I have to say ,if running MC multiple times a week with 40 people and even better, 50 man raids for hours on end in EQ orginal, wasn't a grind then I don't know what is.

[GeckoOBac]

The last 10 levels of DAOC before any of the expansions. 2 spots to do that in the whole world with QUEUES of people waiting to get those spawns (and that's in a relatively low pop server). It could take up to a month of farming depending on the queues. And I mean, back to back pulls with downtime pauses after each one. Slow respawn too.

 

Compared to that, 40 people MC farming is "YUPPIE! VACATION!"

[otterscrubber]

You may like

if you like to grind!

 

This put a smile on my face. Thanks.

[ExpLiciTSainT]

That's pretty amazing as this game is by far the easiest MMO to level up in out of about the dozen or more that I have played.

 

They are all easy to level up. I hit max level in this game at the same rate I hit max level in Wow.

 

I don't mind the grind factor, though the last 10 levels really do suck... but I am stating a truthful reason *other* people I know who play MMOs will not join this game. They play games like Eve and Rift. They have admitted this game looks more fun. However, they do not wish to give a month up to level their guy.

 

One of the things about this game I enjoyed was the play factor with multiple people. I loved questing with one other person and feeling like it improved my leveling experience, speed wise and fun factor wise. This is something my new friends would not enjoy, because I won't take time to level with them since I'm still gearing up my character for PVP and PVE, and the social system sucks in this game.

[cbowsin]

The grind in games refers to definition "2. Hard dull work". Now of course online games are not hard, as the difficulty is based on time. So a 'grind' is actually a long dull activity in a game. So now you have to ask yourself, why would anyone pay money and ask for long dull activities as their form of entertainment? It is simple, some folks have an abundance of time and the tolerance to perform dull activities repeatedly, but a LOT of folks do not have either. So people ask for more grind because they know realistic people will not do those activities or they will but at a much slower rate, and that is how those people become 'special' or in their mind 'better' than everyone else.

 

One of the reasons I play SWTOR, is because the Devs stated pre-release they will not be putting 'the grind' into their game. So if that is all you want, then this is not the game for you.

[ExpLiciTSainT]

What, it's not awesome to do a flashpoint, get some cool stuff and replace it 3 hours?

 

I have done 40+ flashpoints and *NOT* seen an item drop for my warrior tank, except once. The one item that dropped was DPS. If you are replacing items every 3 hours with flashpoints, you must run an Agent.

 

In any rate, I'd rather replace gear because I got awesome gear, than replace awesome gear because I got a level. I enjoy moving through Flashpoints and so does my GF (who btw stopped at level 39 because she hates the grind). I will end up playing her guy and once she hits 50, she'll probably play 20+ hours a week like she did in Wow.

 

Wow released another 5 levels for people to go through with Cata, everyone I know switch to a new MMO. People hate grinding for levels. It's a requirement that prevents you from playing with your friends/guildies in a way you enjoy. That's the real issue.

Edited March 29, 2012 by ExpLiciTSainT

[Guildrum]

Okay. This is sad.

 

"This game is not grindy enough!"

 

Truly? The grind? The thing that so many players of so many other games have whined and complained about?

[ExpLiciTSainT]

The grind in games refers to definition "2. Hard dull work". Now of course online games are not hard, as the difficulty is based on time. So a 'grind' is actually a long dull activity in a game. So now you have to ask yourself, why would anyone pay money and ask for long dull activities as their form of entertainment? It is simple, some folks have an abundance of time and the tolerance to perform dull activities repeatedly, but a LOT of folks do not have either. So people ask for more grind because they know realistic people will not do those activities or they will but at a much slower rate, and that is how those people become 'special' or in their mind 'better' than everyone else.

 

One of the reasons I play SWTOR, is because the Devs stated pre-release they will not be putting 'the grind' into their game. So if that is all you want, then this is not the game for you.

 

Well said.

[ConradLionhart]

I feel like the people who think there is no grind are just super gamers who don't know the meaning of the word difficult.

 

When I played at the start of Cata, it was already a struggle to get 12/12 before the firelands patch. But we made it with a few more weeks to spare, because it was the best raiding group I assembled.

 

However, I remember a guildie who has a main on another server, claim that his guild clears the entire hard mode in one night (or was it 2 night), and never log on again till it resets.

 

I was already struggling to clear 12/12 NORMAL mode, and there are a bunch of people who can clear hard modes in one night. It's just ridiculous.

[Jaenette]

I totally feel what the OP is saying and I miss games like this. Brings me back....

It's that special feeling you get when you're trying to get that one recipe or that one component you need for an item you really want, and when you finally get it..it's the best feeling. This game practically hands you everything on a silver platter with little to work for.

 

Every day I log in JUST to PvP and raid one time a week. That is not worth a $15/month sub. And yeah yeah...I made alts, which I can't STAND to do. I hate alt'ing and I shouldn't have to due to a complete lack of content.

[Jmannseelo]

Thank you Bioware for making this game low on grind. Grinding absolutely sucks. The less grinding there is, the better it makes the game. Period.

[ConradLionhart]

The grind in games refers to definition "2. Hard dull work". Now of course online games are not hard, as the difficulty is based on time. So a 'grind' is actually a long dull activity in a game. So now you have to ask yourself, why would anyone pay money and ask for long dull activities as their form of entertainment? It is simple, some folks have an abundance of time and the tolerance to perform dull activities repeatedly, but a LOT of folks do not have either. So people ask for more grind because they know realistic people will not do those activities or they will but at a much slower rate, and that is how those people become 'special' or in their mind 'better' than everyone else.

 

One of the reasons I play SWTOR, is because the Devs stated pre-release they will not be putting 'the grind' into their game. So if that is all you want, then this is not the game for you.

 

Every game has a reasonable amount of grind. Whether it be in Dragon Age: Origins, killing waves of darkspawn to get from point A to point B, in DoTA where you kill the same creeps over and over again, or in Diablo the game with the biggest grind.

 

Grind keeps people playing for longer. It is needed to give hardcore players a reason to keep playing, and thus ensure the success of this game.

[ConradLionhart]

Thank you Bioware for making this game low on grind. Grinding absolutely sucks. The less grinding there is, the better it makes the game. Period.

 

I don't know, the bonus part of missions seems quite grindy.

[ExpLiciTSainT]

I totally feel what the OP is saying and I miss games like this. Brings me back....

It's that special feeling you get when you're trying to get that one recipe or that one component you need for an item you really want, and when you finally get it..it's the best feeling. This game practically hands you everything on a silver platter with little to work for.

 

Every day I log in JUST to PvP and raid one time a week. That is not worth a $15/month sub. And yeah yeah...I made alts, which I can't STAND to do. I hate alt'ing and I shouldn't have to due to a complete lack of content.

 

See that type of grind I'm OK with. Getting recipes, special mounts, cool looking gear, etc...

 

I'm not ok with the 1 - 49 grind. It's a tax... not entertainment.

[Badlander]

The main problem with this game is they are making it so someone who plays 15 minutes a week can have the same gear as someone who plays 5+ hours a week.